A TX pastor says he is responsible for the safety of his congregation & that he & at least 3 other members will be carrying a handgun to church from now on. This article also has questions to ask about keeping your church safe & a site to get help.
I think it is a good idea to have people in the congregation who are experienced with guns, and who bring them to church. It could be a voluntary security team, much like volunteer firefighters.
We have uniformed and non uniformed officers at every service. We have volunteer and staff security patrolling at all times. I can name at least 5 people who conceal carry every week (some of them on stage).
Jesus. The Prince of Peace, would be so very proud of American style Christianity. Does anyone else think the problem might be us when we are arming parishioners and pastors in this country?
I’m curious Odysseus. Are you a Christian? Prince of Peace was only one of MANY names attributed to Jesus. Some that fit this situation more are:
Good Shepherd—I am the Good Shepherd. The Good Shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. John 10:11. Pastors are also called shepherds. Being willing to protect their congregants (sheep) in this way seems very much like Jesus in this passage to me.
Head of the Church—taking care of that church, as should a pastor.
Judge—judging that the person that comes to kill your members should NOT be allowed to just keep killing them!
King of Kings—in charge of all the Kingdom.
Lion of the Tribe of Judah—we all know how lions take care of their own!
Mighty One—again—powerful—taking care of His own.
Rock—a firm foundation that the people can look to and trust in—as should be a pastor.
Finally, this verse—-Greater love hath no man than this—that he lay down his life for his friends.
And remember that Jesus actually showed ANGER, righteous anger, when he turned over the money changer’s tables—He got angry at injustice—and I’m QUITE certain He would see someone coming into HIS house and killing HIS followers while they’re worshipping HIM, as injustice!
Here on the right hand of our Lord Father I give you Jesus Christ “The Pistol Packing Prince of Peace”. We really do have a mental illness problem in America.
Well that’s a given—the mental illness problem. But it’s NOT the Christians that are trying to protect their brothers and sisters in Christ. It’s those that are murdering them!
And I noticed that you didn’t respond to ANY of the stuff I said, so I’m assuming from that that you’re not a Christian and are just here to mock Christians. Correct me if I’m wrong.
If that’s what you ARE doing, I would REALLY appreciate it if you would cease and desist because this has hit VERY close to home for me, as a pastor’s wife. These dead Christians could very well have been my family members. I’ve spent days sobbing over the stories, and posted a poll about that tonight. PLEASE be respectful.
Please reread Christ’s Sermon on the Mount and the Beatitudes. Does the John Wayne Style Christianity you are advocating sound compatible with the teachings of Jesus?
I don’t think there is ANYTHING wrong with self defense, and I don’t think Jesus would think so either. Are you REALLY saying that Jesus would stand there and let people MURDER little children in front of Him? If so, I respectfully tell you that you need to read this:
“1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.
2) 6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.
3) 12 “What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? 13 And if he finds it, truly I tell you, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. 14 In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should perish.”
If He feels that way about causing a child to stumble, imagine how he feels about allowing a child to be MURDERED in front of you!
I will simply refer you to early Christian history. The early Christians were martyred in the Roman Colosseum. They did not arm themselves and fight as gladiators. Guns in churches doesn’t feel right to me but judge not lest ye be judged.
I agree. Some churches are hiring security. Some have been hiring security that I know of, all the way back to the early 80’s. But small churches like First Baptist Sutherland, and the church that this pastor pastors don’t have the resources to pay for that.
My hubby recently went to an active shooter class, to at least learn how to protect people, even if he doesn’t have a gun—ways to barricade, get people out, etc.
I have a feeling that there are a LOT of people that have been doing that for years. I have a niece that carries hers with her everywhere. She does a lot of traveling with her job. I’ve always just assumed she carries at church, also.
I prefer to not say what area of AL I live in, Glockman. Are you willing to share what area you live in or what denomination you are?
Hey glockman, I’m curious as to the legality of it. I figure you’d be the best one to ask.
In Michigan (as of now, but we’re working on it) it is illegal to conceal carry in a church. If there was an active shooter situation, and someone in the congregation pulled out their gun and killed the shooter, what would happen to the person that killed the shooter?
Not so far. But he has gone to classes about how to get prepare for and what to do if we have an active shooter situation. I posted a poll about that right after the TN church shooting about a couple of months ago now.
I have a feeling that there are people concealed carrying in a lot of churches, especially southern churches.
Thanks so very much, Carolynn! I REALLY appreciate that! I BAWL every time I think of the 14 year old daughter of this pastor, dying, with her parents both out of state, not being there to comfort her! I’m CRYING again now, just typing this out! That very well could’ve been one of our kids.
And it also breaks me up when I read about the 80 something year old parents that have lost their children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren—9 members of their family, including an unborn baby!
Thanks. When I ask a question like this, feel free to apply it to your congregation at the synagogue, if it applies, ok! That’s what @GrandmaAlice does! Lol
Thatguy, I believe that God used the men outside Sutherland Baptist and that he used the young man at the church in TN that took down the shooter there.
Well, in the case of the shooter in TN, the guy took him out right in the middle of the church, and then went to his vehicle and got his gun to hold him until the cops got there, so I’d say God showed up pretty quickly there! Thatguy, most of the time, nowadays, God uses other PEOPLE to do His will in the world.
He feeds the poor through others that follow His commands to do so. He helps the homeless through churches and organizations that have answered God’s call to help them, etc. He helps them in hurricanes through groups such as my own Southern Baptist Disaster Relief organization.
I’m not saying that He can’t do miracles, but I think most of the time He wants US to be His hands & feet to help those that are hurting.
Have you thought about the fact that it could be that He put it on someone’s heart to stop the shooting before those two guys did, but they IGNORED God?
We all have to be willing to listen to that still, quite voice and do His bidding when He calls us to.
I agree, Monkees, but the Bible predicted this, you know. There are many missionaries and Christians in other countries that put their lives on the line every time they go to church, and many of them even have to meet in secret because it’s against the law. We’re VERY blessed that we haven’t had to deal with that here, before now. And it’s because our country was built on Judeo-Christian values.
Many of us were beginning to see that kind of persecution beginning here, before the election, and it’s why we came out in droves to vote, so that pastors would be able to continue to preach what they believe the Bible says without having their sermons confiscated and being fined or put in jail.
4JC asked:
11/09/2017
A TX pastor says he is responsible for the safety of his congregation & that he & at least 3 other members will be carrying a handgun to church from now on. This article also has questions to ask about keeping your church safe & a site to get help.
I’m fine with it. My hubby went to an active shooter class that was put on for church leaders, to teach them how to prepare for shooters & protect their congregations. I have a feeling that there are already a lot of people that are concealed carrying in southern churches, at least! Lol
I believe that God used the men outside Sutherland Baptist & the young man that took down the shooter at the church in TN because they all had guns.
Back during the 80’s, we actually interviewed at a church in the B’ham area that had armed guards outside the church because the church was in a dangerous area.
As far back as the 70’s I know of a church that had ushers circulating in the parking lot because people were stealing church members’ batteries out of their car. This was in a small town in AL.
When we pastored in Baton Rouge, my hubby & the secretary were actually locked inside the building during the week, with a doorbell you had to ring for them to look & let you enter if you were safe.
I have bawled my eyes out the last couple of days because that 14 year old pastor’s daughter could’ve very well been one of our kids.
And to think that there was a family of 9 members that were wiped out—kids, grandkids, great grandkids. I just can’t imagine that kind of pain. It’s only with God’s help that you can get through that, imho.
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