For those who believe in God, does your faith ever waver? In light of recent events in Vegas, NYC, and Texas where many of the victims were children, how do you hold on to your faith?
I have no doubt in my faith or God. Mankind has free will so our hells are of our own creation.
I don't let things like that get to me. It doesn't cause my faith to waver because I have an intellectual understanding of why bad things happen.
It’s simply true, and nothing else is. Much of what we worry about in this world is practically an illusion compared to the reality of God. CS Lewis wrote a great book that you should pick up and read some time. It’s called The Great Divorce. It’s about a bunch of people from Hell that get on a tour bus and go and visit Heaven for an hour. Then they get to choose if they want to stay or not. It’s just amazing the way he describes Hell and Heaven, and the image that I’m thinking of right now is that when they got off the bus in Heaven, they were barefoot, and tried to walk on the grass, but found that the grass hurt their feet, because it was so real and solid compared to them that it was like walking on nails. Looking at each other, they realized that they were mere shadows compared to the reality of Heaven. I think this is the perspective we should always try to have while here on Earth. This is not “reality.” It’s only a “dream” compared to the reality that awaits us in Heaven! ❤️
I’ll look for that book Tom.
I lost mine right around 9/11 and it hasn't come back yet
It’s right where you left it, waiting to be picked up and held tight again. ❤️
No, not for me personally. The argument of bad things happening being a reason for God not existing just doesn't sit well with me and that is because I believe these things are tests. Learning how to deal with things like that and having sympathy and empathy for the families and hoping the victims will be in a good place and hoping for the injured to recover, being grateful for what you have and wanting it for others. All of those I believe to be part of the test.
To put it more simple, there has to some struggles and tests in this life to be able to enjoy the next one.
That is basically the same understanding I have as a Christian. Yet another thing that our faiths can have in common.
We live in a fallen world where most people don't believe in the true God. Tragedies, perversion, and abominations are to be expected.
I believe in a creation G-d, not a participatory all knowing G-d. This allows for free will. All “bad” things that happen are man caused and have no deep purpose, or “destiny “.
When things go badly, it's "why does God let that happen?" Why, is because people have choice.
When things go well, it's "people are great!" And not praise the Lord for graces.
This shows a bias in thinking.
No, if anything it has caused it to be stronger. We live in a sinful world and the Bible says it will continue to become more sinful as people turn away from God. This happens prior to the Great Tribulation.
Amen to that.
I’ve had a hard time lately. Numerous events have shaken my faith.
This type of thing is why I have never had faith. I refuse to believe in a creator that would allow his creations to cause so much harm to each other. That is not the loving God that everyone talks about. So either He is a hypocrite or He doesn't give a shit about us, either way, not what I want to imagine when I image the creator of everything.
People are bad. They are sinful, terrible creatures. God loves them anyway.
Natural evil (hurricanes, etc) is a far better atheist argument. Free will and human depravity covers all of the bad things that humans do (which is the majority of the evil in this world).
I don't think so. I think if a creator saw his creations running amok and causing so much destruction, he would want to stop them, unless he was just as depraved as humans.
So should he puppet them? Wipe them off the face of the earth? What’s the answer?
Our God’s answer was to come and give His life for us. That is the extent of his love, even in the face of our depravity.
I don't know because I'm not a God. But if I was, I wouldn't be the asshole that we have now. I'd probably be a Q like entity and be involved.
Man kills not God. He given us freewill which allows us to make our own decisions, good and bad. This makes us human. To interfere would mean to take away that freewill which mean we’re not free to make our own decisions. Think about that, you no longer can choose for yourself. You would be more of a robot an less human. That would then defeat the reason we’re here to learn and grow without interference.
That would be fine. If we didn't have a species that killed each other as a sport, I'm fine with being a robot. You guys use that as an excuse to be an asshole, because it's "freewill". Being able to be an asshole doesn't make it right.
If you were a robot you wouldn’t have an opinion.
Good thing I'm not a robot then, or we wouldn't be having this pointless conversation. I hate debating religion, no one ever changes their opinions on it and it just wastes time. You aren't going to logic me into believing in God. The idea of God is illogical.
That is okay. I was just explaining why God doesn’t interfere. You asked.
The most logical thing you’ve said is that you are not God. You are right. God’s ways are not are ways. God is above us. You are closed to the idea of God, but it’s a logical as things get. Maybe one day you’ll open your mind and heart. That’s on you, because of free will.
Explain how God is logical? He apparently created the entire universe and used to communicate with humans but then just stopped. He creates things to horrible hurt His creations, i.e. diseases and natural disasters and gives his creations free will to kill and torture each other, usually because they believe in a different God than Himself. Why not just pop down here and say "The Christians are right" or "The Muslims are right". It would take one simple act that would take Him 2 minutes out His extremely busy infinite lifetime to create literal world peace. That is some of the most selfish shit I have ever heard. He can't bother to make Himself known if it would mean people would stop murdering each other wholesale. And this is the Being you chose to worship? I think that says more about you than it does about Him.
Yes, my opinion on God does say something about me. And yours speaks volumes on you.
Do you really think that if God affirmed one religion over another it that would prevent violence in the world? That’s very naive.
God reveals himself every day to those that would know Him. Listen. Look. Open your heart. The first thing that everyone has to do is to get past their own ego. but once you begin, the rewards are limitless.
You think it wouldn't? If people knew, for a fact, that hell was real and they would go there if they didn't follow X religion in accordance with the religious text provided, that they would still act a fool? I don't think so. Muslims and Jews would be more peaceful, that I know. Humans are a species that needs proof of things. Religion has constantly falling numbers, year after year, because more and more people are using their brains and not following "faith" or whatever else you want to call it.
You think this is an original point? The Bible addresses this exact question.
Nothing is an original point. Humans have been around for thousands of years and much of it has been with the ability to write. Everything that could have been said, has been said.
There is only one thing that has ever made my faith waver. But that didnt help me at all.
God never promised a pain free life.
Nope. Bad things have to happen in the world.
Why to the wrong people?
I don't think there is a 'right' people.
Unfortunately 'bad' things must happen or we would have no metric for "good".
There are times it does.
I recognize what the source of evil is. In 2 Corinthians 4:4, the Bible says that Satan is the god of this world. When Adam and Eve fell, it gave the devil the opportunity to come in and cause a lot of crap to happen in the world, and he's taken full advantage of it. In my opinion, one of the most egregious mistakes Christians make is to blame God for the garbage that the devil and his servants perpetrate. And they do it all the time. Giving God "credit" for cancer, natural disasters, bad deeds of sinful people, etc., etc., things that God had nothing to do with. It's not a matter of questioning faith as much as a matter of getting angry with the sinister one who continually fights against the good purposes of God.
purposes of the Heavenly Father.
I've never been able to wrap my head around the idea that the devil acts here on earth. I don't know if it's because it's hard for me to believe or I don't want to believe it.
I mean, that's easily explained by free will. I do struggle with other aspects though, especially specifically Catholic ones.
Free will? Babies practically have no free will. Those people were in church praying. Those other people were at a concert singing. Those men from Argentina were on vacation having a good time.
Uh, I suggest you look into the concept of free will in regards to religion and evil in the world a bit more, because you're misinterpreting it.
I think it's more the shooters have free will. Free will means there will be sin and tragedies.
CC, it's still true.
God, in his measurable love gives us the ability to create, not to be bound by cause and effect but to make of existence what we will.
See what some do with it. Imagine the all powerful deity after saying, See, I have set before you good and evil, life and death. Choose! Imagine the creator of all that is seeing, before it ever happens, all the wrong choices made even after he has sacrificed himself as the way out. But would you want God to decree people would act rightly? You want to be a robot rather than a responsible actor?
There are limits to the expression of God's power because of his limitless love.
There’s just too much bad going on now to good people.
CC, Sticks is saying that it’s the free will of the people committing evil, not the victims.
I couldn't agree more. We'll grieve together.