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snagglepuss November 6th, 2017 9:33pm

Should churches lock their doors while having services?

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geoag02 Dallas, TX
11/06/17 11:44 pm

I like the way my church does it better: two security guards inside, two police officers outside and everyone else is allowed to concealed carry(at least 5 that I know of do).

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snagglepuss Story Time
11/07/17 10:36 am

I like the security detail. I’m not comfortable with more people carrying guns in church.

Not every community can have two officers on site. My community is too small.

geoag02 Dallas, TX
11/07/17 11:14 am

I have a feeling that if you heard some of the required training that people with carry permits have to get before receiving those permits you would be a lot more comfortable with the whole thing. Most of the concerns that I hear from people like you are specifically addressed in there. And I do not mean to discount your concerns at all. We both want the same thing: people to stop shooting each other.

geoag02 Dallas, TX
11/07/17 11:18 am

One thing in particular is you are supposed to keep your gun in its concealed holster at all times unless you are about to shoot someone and then you should promptly return your gun to its holster when you are done. If law enforcement is around, let them deal with the situation instead. You don’t want to risk looking to them like a second crazy person.

snagglepuss Story Time
11/07/17 11:33 am

I’m more comfortable with trained sane people with guns. That’s not always the case. That’s my concern. I grew up around guns. I know hunters and never feel uncomfortable around them because I know they are trained and sane. There are too many untrained whackos with guns. That’s what concerns me.

geoag02 Dallas, TX
11/07/17 4:57 pm

I think it is quite fair to make a discussion between legal and illegal gun possession. I am strongly for one and strongly against the other. Guns should never be used as an offensive weapon by anyone outside of the military. Doing so should be dealt with in the most severe ways that are considered acceptable by our society.

Advil sc
11/06/17 5:16 pm

Everyone is their own first responder. All places where people gather, particularly churches,need to have some form of security. The background check system is large and complex. It only takes one person making a mistake so that a perpetrator can slip through.

Reply
ShakaBrah California
11/06/17 4:17 pm

That's be unwelcoming. How would the people get in the church?

MrsCrayonWax
11/06/17 4:23 pm

I think snag means when services are happening.

ShakaBrah California
11/06/17 4:57 pm

I understand your point, but people come in halfway during the service most days I go.

snagglepuss Story Time
11/06/17 5:36 pm

People would need to get to church on time then once service starts the doors are secure. You can still leave any time. Something to think about. Once the music is playing, preaching, Sunday school classes. There’s a lot going on. It’s not much different than protecting a school in my opinion.

ShakaBrah California
11/06/17 6:54 pm

It still seems unwelcoming. People shoulder be able to enter mass whenever. I understand the concern, but I don't think it will work.

snagglepuss Story Time
11/06/17 9:11 pm

I just think of the children that were shot and killed. Everyone is just sitting ducks with their backs to the main doors. Churches need to consider security measures.

ShakaBrah California
11/06/17 10:15 pm

I agree with you, but there must be another way to do it.

snagglepuss Story Time
11/07/17 10:38 am

Churches need to come up with security measures and evacuation plans.

MrsCrayonWax
11/06/17 3:02 pm

Wouldn’t that be a fire hazard?

MrsCrayonWax
11/06/17 3:05 pm

Good point, out but not in.

snagglepuss Story Time
11/06/17 3:24 pm

Just a thought considering everyone is sitting ducks in that environment.

knetzere Illinois
11/06/17 7:55 pm

Maybe there is a different solution to that problem

knetzere Illinois
11/07/17 5:19 am

Maybe allow people to defend themselves so they aren’t as you said sitting ducks

knetzere Illinois
11/07/17 5:21 am

As I recall the door was locked in ct but it didn’t stop that psycho

snagglepuss Story Time
11/07/17 10:33 am

Ct?

Not everyone is comfortable carrying a gun. Half killed were children. They weren’t old enough to carry.

knetzere Illinois
11/07/17 1:33 pm

I know not everyone in comfortable carrying and I don’t think everyone should but I do think people should have the option.

MrsCrayonWax
11/07/17 1:37 pm

I absolutely think the option should be there but...what is concerning to me is the mass chaos that happens when a church or subway or mall full of people pull out their guns and begin to shoot or make it that much harder for police to intervene. It happened in Vegas.

MrsCrayonWax
11/07/17 1:38 pm

To be clear, they didn’t begin shooting one another but reports of multiple shooters (presumably by conceal carry holders) made it difficult for police.

snagglepuss Story Time
11/07/17 3:15 pm

I agree MrsCrayonWax. I wouldn’t want to be a police officer or a first responder trying to save lives without getting shot in the process.

knetzere Illinois
11/07/17 4:28 pm

People were shooting back? I did not hear that.

What makes you think shooting will still be going on when emergency services arrive 8-15 min later?

LibArtie SW Connecticut
11/06/17 2:52 pm

The odds of becoming a terrorism victim in a Christian church in America is almost zero.

Reply
snagglepuss Story Time
11/06/17 3:02 pm

It’s happened twice now.

LibArtie SW Connecticut
11/06/17 3:05 pm

It’s happened many dozens of times over the years, including bombings of black churches in the 50’s & 60’s. That said, do the math. It’s irrational to take measures.

snagglepuss Story Time
11/06/17 3:26 pm

We are living in a time of terrorism, both foreign and domestic, with a negative political environment. Isn’t being vigilant taking steps to be safe?

LibArtie SW Connecticut
11/06/17 3:29 pm

It’s living in irrational fear. Getting into your car or bathtub is far riskier.

snagglepuss Story Time
11/06/17 3:49 pm

I don’t see it that way. It only took one mass shooting to change school security measures. I don’t see churches any differently.

mitchman399 Oregon
11/06/17 3:50 pm

I was curious what the odds of being at a church and having a shooting are, so I looked up some data and did some calculations and the odds really are astronomically low. If you went to church every single Sunday for three years straight you would roughly have a 0.000003% chance of being at a church during a shooting.

LibArtie SW Connecticut
11/06/17 3:54 pm

MM, thank you for your research. Statistics don’t matter to those who process fear this way.

mitchman399 Oregon
11/06/17 4:06 pm

You're probably right unfortunately. Still interesting to figure out nonetheless.

susanr Colorado
11/06/17 4:12 pm

If we're going to lock ourselves behind doors when the statistical risk of someone coming in and shooting is that low, we should be locking ourselves in almost every time we close a door. Or actually, we should probably never go out anywhere.

The *perception* of risk may be high, especially relatively soon after a truly horrific event, but it isn't really accurate, and it doesn't usually last long term.

.

LibArtie SW Connecticut
11/06/17 4:14 pm

Susan, as often is the case, 👏.