Show of Hands

I like the security detail. I’m not comfortable with more people carrying guns in church.

Not every community can have two officers on site. My community is too small.

I have a feeling that if you heard some of the required training that people with carry permits have to get before receiving those permits you would be a lot more comfortable with the whole thing. Most of the concerns that I hear from people like you are specifically addressed in there. And I do not mean to discount your concerns at all. We both want the same thing: people to stop shooting each other.

One thing in particular is you are supposed to keep your gun in its concealed holster at all times unless you are about to shoot someone and then you should promptly return your gun to its holster when you are done. If law enforcement is around, let them deal with the situation instead. You don’t want to risk looking to them like a second crazy person.

I’m more comfortable with trained sane people with guns. That’s not always the case. That’s my concern. I grew up around guns. I know hunters and never feel uncomfortable around them because I know they are trained and sane. There are too many untrained whackos with guns. That’s what concerns me.

I think it is quite fair to make a discussion between legal and illegal gun possession. I am strongly for one and strongly against the other. Guns should never be used as an offensive weapon by anyone outside of the military. Doing so should be dealt with in the most severe ways that are considered acceptable by our society.

Discussion-> distinction

I think snag means when services are happening.

I understand your point, but people come in halfway during the service most days I go.

People would need to get to church on time then once service starts the doors are secure. You can still leave any time. Something to think about. Once the music is playing, preaching, Sunday school classes. There’s a lot going on. It’s not much different than protecting a school in my opinion.

It still seems unwelcoming. People shoulder be able to enter mass whenever. I understand the concern, but I don't think it will work.

I just think of the children that were shot and killed. Everyone is just sitting ducks with their backs to the main doors. Churches need to consider security measures.

I agree with you, but there must be another way to do it.

Churches need to come up with security measures and evacuation plans.

Not if there are fire exits.

Good point, out but not in.

Just a thought considering everyone is sitting ducks in that environment.

Maybe there is a different solution to that problem

What do you have in mind?

Maybe allow people to defend themselves so they aren’t as you said sitting ducks

As I recall the door was locked in ct but it didn’t stop that psycho

Ct?

Not everyone is comfortable carrying a gun. Half killed were children. They weren’t old enough to carry.

I know not everyone in comfortable carrying and I don’t think everyone should but I do think people should have the option.

I absolutely think the option should be there but...what is concerning to me is the mass chaos that happens when a church or subway or mall full of people pull out their guns and begin to shoot or make it that much harder for police to intervene. It happened in Vegas.

To be clear, they didn’t begin shooting one another but reports of multiple shooters (presumably by conceal carry holders) made it difficult for police.

I agree MrsCrayonWax. I wouldn’t want to be a police officer or a first responder trying to save lives without getting shot in the process.

People were shooting back? I did not hear that.

What makes you think shooting will still be going on when emergency services arrive 8-15 min later?

No people were not.

It’s happened twice now.

It’s happened many dozens of times over the years, including bombings of black churches in the 50’s & 60’s. That said, do the math. It’s irrational to take measures.

We are living in a time of terrorism, both foreign and domestic, with a negative political environment. Isn’t being vigilant taking steps to be safe?

It’s living in irrational fear. Getting into your car or bathtub is far riskier.

I don’t see it that way. It only took one mass shooting to change school security measures. I don’t see churches any differently.

I was curious what the odds of being at a church and having a shooting are, so I looked up some data and did some calculations and the odds really are astronomically low. If you went to church every single Sunday for three years straight you would roughly have a 0.000003% chance of being at a church during a shooting.

MM, thank you for your research. Statistics don’t matter to those who process fear this way.

You're probably right unfortunately. Still interesting to figure out nonetheless.

If we're going to lock ourselves behind doors when the statistical risk of someone coming in and shooting is that low, we should be locking ourselves in almost every time we close a door. Or actually, we should probably never go out anywhere.

The *perception* of risk may be high, especially relatively soon after a truly horrific event, but it isn't really accurate, and it doesn't usually last long term.

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Susan, as often is the case, 👏.