Do you believe in life after death?
Henry, politika...let her ‘believe’ whatever the hell she wants to and ignore her. She obviously has nothing else to do whatsoever. I think it’s a she, but I have no proof. Lol!
I’m not religious but when you scope out all the different religions out there. They all have us going to some type of life after death, so one of them should be right. Maybe? Probably not lol
I believe in the possibility. It really doesn't matter anyway.
Yes. I am Christian.
Mark, both you & gorilla are sincere, fair minded & intelligent, so I have some others things to do, but hope you keep reasoning with one another, I’ll check back, & put in my 2 cents occasionally, hope you both continue to seek truth !
I wish but sadly no
Sure. Just not my life or my death lol.
Heaven and hell
Funny. All of these pretentious atheists speaking of lack of “evidence” when they are missing the entire point of “Faith”. It really would be funny if it weren’t so sad.
No wonder the democ-rats are always so sour. They think that this is all there is.
Faith is by definition believing in something without evidence I’m not sure what your saying
Is faith a reliable path to truth?
Yes. As a tree.
For Christians, to give up their beliefs leaves them w/ no beautiful place to go when they die. It’s uncertain, and they simply can’t deal with that. I believe that Jesus lived, but that he died for our sins, blah, blah, blah. I believe that he LIVED without sin to show us how to live. And he is the son of god, just like I’m a child of god. I believe in the spirit of god, which is basically the lone we share as humans. And, it’s available to everyone. I believe god created the earth and in evolution. For me, it’s possible to make sense of both in conjunction with each other. Muslims are getting a very bad rap because of the extremists in their religion. But Christians have extremists in their religion, too. Just some of my thoughts. And as I said, Christians have an answer for everything. I’ll pray for them just like they’re gonna pray for me. Hahaha!
Crap this was supposed to be a continuation of my reply post below... dammittohell!! More humor. Ha!
I believe the soul is reincarnated until it learns all that it is supposed to. Then it moves on to the summerland.
It’s just what feels right to me. I believe in past life regression.
I agree, jmw
When 50% of Jews don’t believe in an afterlife.
The Jewish faith is pretty iffy about an afterlife or what exactly it is if I’m not mistaken
I believe in today that’s all we have
I do not believe in things without evidence backing them so no.
Although I hope there is thatd be cool
Too cute, henry... that’d be cool 😎
How many times have we been asked this on here? I wonder how the results compare.
Do you believe in life after love?
😄 I like her 😄
Good one! Yes I do believe in life after love...painful as it is. And, check it out. This video is from 1998, and Cher is rockin’ the black nail thing that all the actresses are into the last couple of years. She’s a super trend setter! Or, maybe I just noticed them lately. I know they’ve been a goth thing for yeeears, but I just started wearing mine like that.
No, unfortunately not. Would be cool though
Not if it’s something shitty like the underworld lol
Unless it had full leather bodysuit Kate beckensale from underworld
You guys! 😆
How many times is this gonna be asked?
Until the app ceases to exist. But even then, the question will no doubt see life after the death of the app.
Deep thoughts with FIAT
I do believe in life after death and I hope I'm right. It's what I believe according to my faith. But, I acknowledge that no one really knows for sure.
Do I believe in life without repeated questions? No.
What do the 5% of “Christians” that said no believe?
That is what caught my attention too. I put that to people not being honest with their profile.
Or not yet being certain of where they stand.
Or not paying attention to the question and blindly answering. 5% is easily due to human error.
True. Certainly possible.
It's well documented Christ exists. I certainly believe in his teachings about love and forgiveness. Is his version of God and Heaven true...I am less sure. So it is possible to believe in Christ with being certain about life after death.
@JoeRoberts by what evidence and for what audience?
Also this app has been around for quite a while now things change and people change. They may not have updated what profile
That is a fair point about being around for a while. But I still think some people are not being honest with their profile and not just in this question but across the board. This is just an easy question to notice it
You have no basis to think that though... why would anyone intentionally lie?
If he is who he says he is, everything he says is true. If he’s not, then he can only be seen as crazy....and not as just a good teacher
We are all currently living after many have died. Re-word your question please.
Oh come on, you know what they mean don’t be difficult.
I also thought the question could have been more clear lol
The question is perfectly clear lol
For the 1000th time, yes.
How can any of the Christian groups not be 100% yes on this one. If you don’t believe in life after death you are not a Christian. I mean that is one of the major components of all Christian churches.
I believe our soul/spirit continues and that we exist in human form only until we figure out how to be truly good to each other ( that means reincarnation - too much to learn in one human lifetime). All those "wise old souls" you've met are just that - they're figuring things out and will move on to a greater existence when they're finally free from the confines of this existence. Hateful souls come back as what they hate until they figure out the truth.
Interesting you mention this. I have identical twin nieces. The very first time my Mom & I saw them, my Mom commented that Beth was an old soul. Right before she said that, I had just had the exact same thought. It was in her eyes. You could just tell she’d been here before. Now, her sister, Bri, is pretty new. The twins are 24 yrs old now. I’m an old soul. I think I’m on one of my last go rounds. Ha!
Basically, you described pretty much what I believe. We’re destined to come back until we learn all the ‘lessons.’ I suffer from depression very badly, and I have wanted to kill myself many, many times. But then, I remember that if I don’t stick this out, I’ll have to repeat it. No way in hell, man, no way! So I’m hanging in there with love from family and friends and god. 😊
I don't remember life before birth so I don't know if I believe in life after death. I hope there is, though. There are a few people I really miss.
No, but I believe in death after life.
Other people live, so yes
Great answer! :)
Nope. This is it so live every moment to the fullest!!
No. Only one ride per customer. Better enjoy it.
I honestly just don’t care.
I assume that there isn’t, as it makes me value life on Earth so much more, but if there is then yay, whoop dee doo for me!
That's not how it works
And why not?
Eternal life with God is only for believers. No one is saved except through Jesus Christ.
That is true according to the Christian faith, but humor me this; God is an omnipotent being, yes?
Yes He is
My belief is that if He wants to judge me and decide my ultimate faith, then he should do so on my actions and how I have lived my life, rather than simply what I believe in.
That is certainly part of it. However, besides not trusting and believing in the God that Created everything, I'm betting you believe He should judge you based on YOUR interpretation of "good actions", not His Word, right?
Making us with a different interpretation of good actions than him yet still requiring us to follow him would be a massive dick move.
And saying you must believe in Jesus to get into heaven then creating people that would have a 0% of even HEARING about Jesus or Christianity in their entire lives is downright evil.
So therefore unless god judges us by our interpretation of good deeds and nothing else then he’s a shitty god and I wouldn’t follow him even if he were proven true. I have no idea why you would want to follow a god like that
Excellent point Henry
Thank you, henry. You cover some points I didn’t get to.
Also, just because my “interpretation” of morals isn’t directly from the 10 Commandments, doesn’t mean that they don’t exist. I still believe murder, stealing from people, etc is very wrong and I try to act accordingly in my life.
Henry, as the eternal Creator and judge of all things, God decides who shares eternity with Him. In a similar but different vein, you have to follow the laws in this country whether you like them or not.
As for "good actions", there must be an objective concept of "good" which God has laid out, otherwise it would be subjective and worthless. And yet still, following the 10 Commandments and doing good actions will not save a Christian either.
Toootal sidestep around everything I said
Also “it has to be objective and it has to be god who decides what it is because I just can’t handle it being subjective” is not a good argument
So you didn't comprehend my statement. I'll try to simplify it further for you.
God is the only judge. So He decides what is "good". Therefore the rules are from Him as to what is considered acceptable to be saved. To summarize, your subjective vision of "good" is irrelevant.
It's really no different than how man-made laws work in society. Someone else makes the laws and you have to follow them even if you don't like them or face a penalty. Common sense here.
Except the people that made up the laws in society have been proven to exist.
I perfectly understood and responded to your statement.
On top of that your definition of god is evil at worst and at best a piece of shit as I’ve already explained. I wouldn’t follow his laws even if he were proven to exist in that form.
That’s not to say I wouldn’t follow any “version” of god. Just not the one your describing because of the reasons I’ve stated
"it has to be objective and it has to be god who decides what it is because I just can’t handle it being subjective”
No, clearly you didn't.
Saying you don't like His laws and wouldn't follow them even if He did exist (your thoughts) is foolish to say the least. You can't even fathom the penalty. Death, as in no longer existing in any form, would be a gift. Eternal torture, on the other hand, will be unbearable.
Apparently the only god you would follow is yourself (one that agrees with your vision of "good")
Threatening someone with something that has no evidence backing it up is what’s foolish lol
It’s like me telling you I have the ability to rain meterors down on you if you don’t give me $10. I doubt your gonna give me the money or even worry about it because there’s no reason at all to believe it.
If God’s morals are the only morals then why do I along with everyone else have different ones?
And yes why on earth would I follow a god that I believed to be not good??
There is evidence for God though you choose to ignore it.
You have different morals because you choose to. Everyone has free will, even with this God that you deny and don't like.
Why would you follow His laws? Because He is the Creator of everything, including your life and that of those you love. You don't even have to really DO anything to receive the free gift of eternal life. Only accept that His son, Jesus Christ, gave His life to pay for our sins. That's it.
No. There is not.
I don’t ignore anything I would love for there to be actual evidence for him existing but there is not.
When did you choose to believe murder was wrong?
The evidence is all around you.
I didn't choose to know murder is wrong. We're all innately born with God's truth. As you get older, you may be influenced to have other beliefs.
Sorry about that. It was “the evidence is all around you” it’s just that that is such a bad argument and I hear it semi-often.
But I shouldn’t have laughed
Why is it a bad argument? Explain how the universe came to be and in such an orderly manner with physical laws that cannot be broken without a Creator? Where did DNA come from? Even today we cannot produce anything like it.
“If God’s morals are the only morals then why do I along with everyone else have different ones?”
The gift of choice.
If you prefer to be your own god and live without Him, you can. The problem is in the afterlife, good and evil will be polarized.
Every good thing comes from the Father per James 1:17
Light and darkness- separated, peace and anguish- separated etc. When you choose God, you get all of him and nothing else. When you choose to reject God, you also reject all he wants to give you. It’s a package deal. None of us deserve what he has to give:
“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” Romans 3:23
But thank God, He rescued us. Next verse says, “and all (who choose to be) are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is Christ Jesus” Romans 3:24
You have given the right to choose not to be rescued, but be warned: Eternity is a long time to think about the choice you made.
Kscott- 1) random chance
2) even if I or anyone doesn’t know what happened that does not mean it was god. It is not evidence.
Look up god of the gaps fallacy that’s why it’s a terrible argument
(God of gaps fallacy is basically saying I don’t know what is causing something so I will attribute it to god)
Amy- what about people that never meet someone that tells them to believe in god? Because if no one ever tells you to believe in the Christian god (either through writing or in person) you won’t believe in it.
Those people are dammed for all of eternity even though they never had a chance for salvation?
Why do we bother arguing still about whether God exists or not? It’s obvious that neither side will ever be convinced that the other is right-so what’s the point of debating?
Not really arguing about the existence of god...
Well I’m not anyways
Some of us regret ever having commented on the post as we are constantly being notified of your “discussion.” Perhaps y’all could take this up in PMs, for the sake of others?
I know Henry, I’m right there with you dude...
This isn’t really meant toward you, more so on the other side, as we’re just trying to say that our morals are not based upon God.
Last comment from me
I'm well aware of the God of the gaps fallacy. However I doubt you're familiar with the evolution of the gaps fallacy which gets committed by "scientists". Im not suggesting "we don't know therefore God". The Holy Bible, which has been shown to be inerrant, describes how life came to be and the evidence supports it. Yes, organisms evolve to fit their environment but they don't transform to an entirely new organism over time. That has never been shown to occur in any scientific experiment. It's a belief.
Last comment from me:
Every thing you said in that last post kscott was dead wrong. It’s clear you don’t understand evolution because it has absolutely been proven.
I hate to tell you, kscott, but the “holy” bible is NOT inerrant and has been SHOWN not to be. If you truly wanted to educate yourself, you could read a book called “Who Wrote the Bible?” I’ve read it, and it’s quite educational and full of actual research and facts. But I know that won’t happen bc to actually learn facts would throw you for a loop.
I understand you kids think you know everything. You've been erroneously led to believe that scientists have all the answers, the ones you've been spoonfed, just like everyone else. I'm here to tell you that most of what you've been taught about history and much about historical science is wrong.
And yes, the Bible is inerrant and has been proven true by archaeological and written history.
I’m not a “kid.” I’m in my 50s. Went to parochial school from K-8th grade, and can quote bible scripture like nobody’s business. I’m not referring to science at all. I hate to tell you but you’re wrong, wrong, wrong about the bible. But heaven forbid, you learn anything factual and actually researched. Try reading some of the research you claim ‘proves’ the bible to be inerrant, and you’ll learn it’s really not. There are books that weren’t included; all of the events are jumbled up. It’s not in any order, and it was assembled by governments and leaders to keep their people in line. Are there facts in the bible? Of course, but it’s far from inerrant. And, what happened to your last comment, anyway?
Oh, and everything they’ve been taught is wrong? Says who? You? How the hell do you know what they’ve been taught? Who died and made you the almighty authority of science?
Every one of your posts makes it clear you don’t know what you’re talking about
Mine or kscotts?
Very much Scott
I'm sorry that you feel you've had a rotten time with your life. That anger and hostility won't improve anything. The Bible is the inerrant Word of God, no matter the order of the books. They all stay completely on message despite being from so many authors throughout time. That's what makes it so wonderful. Yes, I'm aware there are books missing, but God didn't feel those were important for us to be saved. I've read the Book of Enoch...very interesting and scary, but true.
I'm not the authority on science but I've learned how to apply logic and reason to things that are ascribed as true. If you do some in-depth independent research on many of the so-called "scientific truths", you'd find that many of them have been incorrectly interpreted but taught to all of us as true since we were kids.
You actually don’t know how to or choose not too apply logic and reason... that’s why you chose faith over things that have been proven
Not that that’s necessarily “bad” live your life however you want. But don’t go spreading blatantly false information.
Actually I apply both to my faith and science equally. I have my degree in biology with a minor in chemistry. I believed all the same things you were taught too. However, my advanced knowledge of the subjects allowed me a greater insight to their flaws and able to break apart the flawed assumptions in each one.
You’re hilarious, kscott. What on earth gives you the idea that I’ve had a rotten time in my life? I actually have a beautifully blessed life. And what hostility? Patronizing me won’t change the fact that I question what you seem to think are your omnipotent “opinions?” Your opinions are based on what you’ll allow yourself to read. You base what you read or don’t read on what supports your faith. God forbid you read something that might shake your faith. Because if it doesn’t support heaven as you expect it to be with streets of gold and little cherubic angels all eternally worshipping the god in which you believe, what then? And I do believe in god, just not heaven and hell, as defined by your “inerrant” bible.
My advanced knowledge of the subjects allowed me a greater insight to their flaws and able to break apart the flawed assumptions in each one.
Do you have any idea how arrogant you sound? Like none of the others in this thread have any advanced knowledge worth acknowledging. We don’t believe what you do. End of story. You’re not going to change our opinions or what we’ve learned with your arrogance.
Do you believe yourself to be a Christian?
Absolutely not. Was raised as one, but then I saw the light.
It wasn't the light you saw. You've been deceived.
Oh my good lord in heaven, give it a rest. You don’t know anything about me. How dare you. For all you know, you’ve been deceived. All you have is your faith and beliefs and no proof of what you’ve asserted; although I believe you have the degrees you claim to have. I was raised as a Christian, was baptized and so on. I’ve lived your faith, but you have no idea what I believe and in what I put my faith. So I know you are not educated in what I place my faith. So why can’t you just drop it and move the hell on? Unlike you, I’m not on here trying to convince anyone that they can only be “saved” by the blood of Jesus Christ, yada, yada, yada. You still never addressed questions to you regarding the people in the world who have NEVER, and most likely, will NEVER hear “your word of god.” What? Do they just all go to hell? Stop wasting your time and ours on here and perhaps for minister to as many of those as you can reach, the way Jesus told you to do.
Don’t bother responding. I’m blocking you. You’re just obnoxious with your arrogance, not a Christian trait either. Ba-bye!
Apparently Katerina isn't able to have an adult conversation on an app. Are you Henry?
Yes but since it’s clear you don’t want to hear facts I’m not sure I want to try.
I'm all for discussing facts, just not manufactured lies based upon flawed assumptions.
Ok the facts are evolution has been PROVED and neither a god in general nor a specific one has any logical evidence and religion by definition is faith based meaning it has no logical backing.
Those are both facts.
There is no such thing as “historical science” or “kinda” those are both just ad box terms created by creationists to rationalize and try to come up with some kind of argument. The facts are we have observed evolution at all stages and there is hard evidence/proof that species over log periods of time mutate and change and can turn into new species if enough small changes happen
Also to throw in the Bible is absolutely not inerrant and it’s a little ridiculous to suggest it is. Which is possibly one of the reasons katarina got so angry
I've heard that erroneous line of thinking before. We'll just agree to disagree.
Henry, I was never angry. You just can’t have a rational discussion with someone who’s so arrogant. She thought she was dealing with kids who she apparently believes have no sense.
Lol no Scott you are wrong.
IF you have any clarifying questions I’d be happy to answer them but everything I’ve said is true
This is the ONLY thing you've said that is true:
"Except the people that made up the laws in society have been proven to exist."
Everything else was indoctrinated fabrications.
Now you deserve the laugh.
Katarina is correct you are blindly arrogant over things you know nothing about despite how much you think you know about them
Scott, as much as it pains me to say it, religion is way, way, way, WAY closer to being indoctrination than science is.
I thought kscott was a she. In any case, Christianity reminds me of how North Koreans are indoctrinated by their leader. Blind sheep following whatever their leaders and, of course, their interpretations of the bible tell them. Individual Christians have many interpretations of the bible. I’m not trying to be insulting. But that’s what it reminds me of. There are millions of fine Christian people, many of whom are my family and friends. It’s just not exactly what I believe.
Yes thank you. That’s what made me laugh
Put it this way: a person alone on earth given enough time could verify and prove everything in science including evolution (assuming the 4.5 billionish years that happened before humans still happened the same way)
A person alone on earth for ANY amount of time will never come the the same conclusions you have about god. They certainly would not come up with the Christian god or write the Bible as there IS. NO. EVIDENCE. for it.
I believe in god. I believe he comes to every religion as a different deity. I believe the ultimate goal of all religions is basically the same.
I believe in evolution AND that god created it all.
I believe in afterlife & spirits, bc I feel them around me.
I believe in reincarnation, bc I remember past lives, only a couple. That’s a glitch. Ur not supposed to remember.
I believe most stories in the bible, but that they’re parables.
I don’t believe Jesus died for our sins. I believe w/ all my heart that he came to earth to show us HOW to live. I believe he performed miracles metaphysically, & I believe we’re capable of them, too. They just require too much brain power, & we’re too lazy. We’re also too lazy to make choices based on love & not our possessions & our ego the way Jesus & god intended. Christians need a fall back plan of we’re all sinners, bc they can’t accept that they always have a choice & can make the godly one.
God & Jesus are one, as is the spirit that lives in us all.
That oughta throw y’all for a loop! 😝
“Katarina is correct you are blindly arrogant over things you know nothing about despite how much you think you know about them”
That’s the definition of irony.
My friend, the height of arrogance and ignorance is believing you know it all. I’ve never claimed this. I have said, however, that the theory of evolution is not a fact, because it isn’t. In fact, it’s been interpreted to be true based on assumptions that have never and could never be proven. It also is not even a part of science. The scientific method requires experimentation and reproduction for verification. No one lives long enough to do any of that since the claim is that it requires millions or billions of years. Same holds true for the Big Bang. Both are beliefs and are arrived at due to ideological viewpoints.
Not but we can change a bacteria’s environment in a lab and see how over time, as the bacteria reproduces, it changes and adapts to its environment through mutation, etc. And THAT, my friend, is a scientific experiment that supports the Theory of Evolution.
If you want to believe that God *poofed* man into existence, you go right ahead, just don’t be trying to change classroom curriculum according to your religious beliefs.
In addition I suggest you study something called the Cosmic Background Radiation (or CMB), as it’s the radiation all over the universe that is left over from the Big Bang.
Here’s the thing Kscott. Is every scientific theory right? No, they’re not. Could our understanding of gravity be wrong? Yes, it could. Could our understanding of how man got on this planet be wrong? Yes, it could. A lot of scientific theories and laws COULD be wrong, but as of today, many, many, many of our theories and laws have held up under experimentation and scrutiny, and because of that, we will continue to believe that they are true until we can find information that requires us to modify our laws and theories.
And that is where science and religion fundamentally differ. Religion isn’t met to change with new information, whereas science is. And that is why religion is widely regarded as BELIEF, whereas science is regarded in a more truthful sense.
How a bacterium responds to its environment is called adaptation. No matter how many mutations or millions of years pass, it will still be a bacterium. Hat is a proven fact and disproves the false theory of evolution.
Be honest, has any experiment ever shown one kind of organism to evolve into another?
It’s erroneous of you to think I haven’t studied the CMBR. None of that means hat the universe came from an explosion that violates the known laws of the universe. In fact, it’s a hurdle you can’t overcome because of it. No one can recreate the beginning of the universe, therefore it’s not science to claim theories of origin. Likewise, the theory of evolution has an origin problem. The law of biogenesis has never been broken.
Listen Kscott, I’m not saying that the Big Bang theory IS right, because it very well might not be. But at least science has the ability and the duty to change and adapt to the truth about what we can experiment and predict, whereas your religion is trying to draw facts and conclusions based on a book that was written over a thousand years ago.
And in response to your inquiry to experiments, that’s because there are two subtypes of evolution: macroevolution, and microevolution. Microevolution has been proven many, many times in labs, as I said, with bacteria and other organisms. Macroevolution can be found to be true by looking at fossil records as well as testing for common DNA among different species, etc.
Also, have you tested that theory that a bacterium will remain a bacterium over millions of years no matter what? Because I would really, really like to see that proof...
You can’t in the same breath claim that the Big Bang is the closest we have to an answer and call it “science” while the very essence of the belief violates the known laws of physics. They’re incompatible. The problem there is an ideological viewpoint that only naturalism is possible.
I believe the Bible because it has been tested and proven to be true every time. It’s logical that an eternal God created everything and gave us physical laws, logic, and reason. DNA is further proof of His method of making life.
Where does logic come from in your view? If we happened by accident from lightning then you’re just a walking robot doing what the chemicals in your brian tell you to think and do. You have no control over your decisions. You’re a robot.
Why does the very essence of belief violate the laws of physics?
And yes, sorry to say I don’t think there’s too many people running with their hands up to say that the Bible is a scientifically accurate book...
Well at least you’re beginning to see the light. Microevolution, or adaptation, is absolutely true. We can observe this happening.
Macroevolution, however, is completely faith-based. DNA similarity does not prove ancestry. It only makes sense that a Creator who uses the same amino acids and DNA in ALL life would not recreate the wheel. So, chimps have similar DNA because they look and move similar to us. This is logical but doesn’t mean we evolved from a common ancestor. The fossil record does not show anything of the sort. Besides the obvious frauds and forgeries over the decades, they rebuild an image of an animal from a tooth and claim it was an ancestor. Not to mention they use bones found from different sedimentary levels and that are hundreds of feet away. It’s nonsense.
“have you tested that theory that a bacterium will remain a bacterium over millions of years no matter what?”
No, because it can’t be done. So why do you believe it if it can’t be done? That’s the real question.
There are literally thousands of scientists that believe the Bible to be scientifically accurate. There is even a website of some called Dissent from Darwin. Look it up.
“Why does the very essence of belief violate the laws of physics?”
Can you clarify?
Listen Kscott, as much as I would love to debate a science vs religion standpoint, I can’t do this anymore. Science isn’t meant to be debated against religion. They’re two fundamentally different things. I obviously am not going to be able to defend parts of science well enough because I am an 18 year old freshman in college, I’m not a scientist (actually planning on being a finance major). But I do know this: the entire purpose of science is to try to explain what happens in the universe and why it happens, so that much we can make predictions about what might happen in the future. Scientists try to do this by testing claims and gathering evidence for and/or against the claim. The nature of science is truth-seeking through evidence. Religion is not meant to do this. Religion is meant to be a cultural system of behaviors and practices, and beliefs that relate humanity to the supernatural. It doesn’t need evidence, it’s not meant to. Fundamentally science and religion differ.
I was referencing this line: “You can’t claim in the same breath that the Big Bang is the closest we have to an answer and call it science while the very essence of the belief violates the the known laws of physics.”
You’ve made some good points but are still misunderstanding how the Bible relates. Yes, science is only there to help us understand how the laws of the universe operate and to predict future events. But it can only function with experimentation and testing. Anything else is faith, and unfortunately, faith using flawed assumptions about the past.
I graduated college 17 yrs ago with a bachelors in biology and a minor in chemistry. I took calculus level physics and was accepted to medical school. I was taught the very same things as you and I was not raised in a religious household. In fact, both of my parents still are not sadly.
I’ve spent more than 10 yrs trying to better understand why we’re here and how and can tell you that what we’re taught in school is absolutely false. Not the math and basic science and biology but the greater important things.
I’m a Christian because I now understand better why we’re here. The Bible stands the test of time. It also made predictions, over 100, that came true. Probability theory alone says that can’t happen unless the source is omnipotent and omniscient. Probability theory also proves the theory of evolution to be so improbable that it’s technically impossible. Did you know a computer has been running trying just to recreate our alphabet and after 35 Trillion tries has only got 14 right? That defeats the billions of years of the Big Bang and evolution.
I can argue against these theories using only science. If you’re up for the challenge and learning something new then I’d be happy to continue.
One more thing about religion. Only one is true and accurate, and can be known by its testament to things past, present, and future. Only one had prophecies come true, historicity backed by archaeology, and explanations for our natural world that comport with scientific discovery. Only one has a God that came to live in His creation and die to pay our price for our sin so that we could have eternal life with our Father. None of the others have that.
You definitely have your right to believe in whatever you want, and you’re right that that is a way Christianity is different. But I wouldn’t necessarily want to go around trying to say that’s the objective truth to the other 6.352 billion people in the world who aren’t Christian and don’t believe that, who have their own religions and their own texts which are probably equally as viable and believable as yours.
The Big Bang as well as evolution has evidence and has been proven.
They don’t call something a theory in science unless it is proven.
And politik just so you know macro and micro evolution are the exact same thing. Micro is just over a smaller time sale and macro is a large time scale. Same exact process drives both
No, henry, theories are just that, theories. They’re not proven. They’re a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation.
A theory and law differ only in that a law explains “what” happens, and a theory explains “why” something happens. It doesn’t have anything to do with provability or anything. It’s a very common misconception.
Yes it does why would it not?
All scientific theories have been proven by overwhelming evidence
Katerina what you described was a hypothesis. A testable idea of what could happen.
A scientific theory is proven. Theory means something different in science than in colloquial use
Truth doesn’t care about consensus. It’s not a popularity contest but what is objectively true.
“They don’t call something a theory in science unless it is proven.”
That statement is false. First, you’re ignoring that science is a method, requiring experimentation and reproducibility. The theory of evolution fails that definition as does the Big Bang. The only difference in scientific theory and it’s use colloquially is that in science it has somewhat reasonable evidence. But it is FAR from fact or proven.
No, not all religions are equally viable. None of the others are. I’ve already explained the difference.
“All scientific theories have been proven by overwhelming evidence”
Your repetition of this mantra is why you’re unable to use critical thinking.
Holy shit dude
You can keep saying whatever you want ignoring reality. Just know it’s so obvious you disagree because you don’t actually understand what these things are. No one could say this many wrong things in a row otherwise.
I wish I could explain them but you don’t want to know because you don’t want your world view to be changed (another major difference between science and religion)
“Just know it’s so obvious you disagree because you don’t actually understand what these things are. No one could say this many wrong things in a row otherwise.
I wish I could explain them but you don’t want to know because you don’t want your world view to be changed “
Those words are the highest of irony, arrogance, and ignorance combined.
Oh look, another post with absolutely no substance just telling me I’m wrong. No explanation as to why because that would be too hard for you. No explanation as to why you said the Bible is inerrant when it so clearly isn’t. No explanation as to why evolution is indoctrination because it so clearly isn’t.
No explanation as to why you disbelieve things with evidence and fully believe things without evidence simply because someone told you too.
No answers to any questions and no asking real questions of your own to better understand the other case
Not only is it clear you don’t understand. It’s clear you really don’t want too. Your side of the conversation has not been one including any logical or rational explanations. Faith is more important than logic for you. And that’s fine. For you. But don’t go trying to pass that faith off as proven when the exact opposite in many cases is what’s actually proven.
The fact of the matter is that everything I’ve said could be independently verified by a man that has never had any contact with humans spoken, written or otherwise.
And nothing you’ve said can do the same.
I’ve given many explanations for truth in previous comments while you were away. Please read those.
I could also give you more specific instances, besides those I’ve already listed above, though this format is not really conducive to such discussions. If you’d like to stick to one topic, we can do so. I won’t jump around chasing your moving goalposts.
Let’s start with the Big Bang. What scientific experiment reproduced the beginning of the universe?
I’m going to pretend you didn’t ask a pointed irrelevant question and just give you evidence for Big Bang:
As expected at the time Uber massive amounts of energy permeated everything. This energy would have slowly dissipated and thinned. We can and have observed the remnants of this cosmic background radiation and it is at the levels now we’d expect if this happened back then.
We have literally taken pictures of the universe at 400,000 years old (I can explain this if you don’t understand how) and we can map the cosmic radiation and where it would go and detect this radiation.
Another piece of evidence is the increasing acceleration of the expansion of space. Meaning everything is getting farther from eachother which would lead back to everything being in one point.
Gravitational waves are also being used to gather evidence however their existence was just proven recently so it’s still being worked on
Irrelevant? Science REQUIRES experimentation. Otherwise it’s faith.
The Bible says “he alone stretcheth out the heavens.” This was written thousands of years ago by our Creator. This would absolutely explain an expanding universe by supernatural means.
But, let’s get back to your belief in naturalism. How did the Big Bang happen? What exploded and why? Where did the matter come from. You have an a priori issue, along with a violation of the laws of known physics. How do you intend on getting around those?
Also, what is gravity and how does it work?
What exploded? All of the energy that makes up the universe
Why? I don’t know.
What is gravity? There is a gravitational field that permeates all of space. The amount each object interacts with the field (determined by its mass) determines the force due to gravity it exerts on other objects (also depending on how far apart they are)
Think of it as a small indentation on a flat piece of paper a ball placed on the paper will accelerate towards the indent. Similar to that but in 4 dimensions not 2.
“We have literally taken pictures of the universe at 400,000 years old.”
😂 You’re killing me! How old is the universe?
You do not need to know what exactly caused the Big Bang to know that it happened.
And it’s really more of a sudden expansion from a singular point than an explosion just so you know
I said I’d explain that and you just laugh at me instead of asking for an explanation are you fucking serious? This is why people don’t like talking with you
Here’s the explanation not because you deserve it but because I don’t want to hear your bitching that I never gave it to you:
The universe is 13.8 billion years old. We can look into it’s past by looking very far away because light takes so long to travel. So if we see light from a galaxy 3 billion light years away we are viewing that galaxy as it looked 3 billion years ago. (Actually a little longer but I’m not going to get into that it’s too complicated for you apparently)
So by taking data on the cosmic background radiation of places far away we get 400,000 year old “baby picture” of the universe
Some of my questions are rhetorical. Sorry, I apologize for coming off sarcastic but it’s not as if you haven’t been extremely arrogant, rude, and undeserving of respect at times. Drop the know-it-all attitude and we can have an adult conversation.
In any case, you claim that all the mater in the universe started from a singularity. Where did the matter and energy come from, naturally? Let’s start from the beginning.
I don’t know. Again it is not necessary know what caused it to know that it happened
Possible hypothesis would include it came from another universe or appeared through quantum tunneling. Or even god would be a possibility. But since there’s no hard evidence for any of those I’m going with I don’t know still
“The universe is 13.8 billion years old. We can look into it’s past by looking very far away because light takes so long to travel. So if we see light from a galaxy 3 billion light years away we are viewing that galaxy as it looked 3 billion years ago.”
Let a break this down. How is the age of the universe known? How do you believe they know how far away a galaxy is (3B light yrs in your example)? It’s circular reasoning. You claim we know how old the universe is (assumption), and how far away a galaxy is (assumption) and by using these two variables determine how fast it’s expanding.
And you started all of the rudeness. All of everyone else’s was due to frustration with you and how you were acting.
We know the age because of mapping the cosmic background radiation.
We know how far away another galaxy is because we can measure it...
The origin is important in that your claim is that the supernatural is not real, yet strangely you conceded that “god” could be a possibility. But, let’s take God out of the equation. You still hold a naturalistic view of the universe so that means the origin cannot break any natural laws. Maybe you don’t know where that matter and energy came from, but one thing is certain, you can’t claim it happened naturally.
The reason why the Big Bang happened is important for knowledge sake but it is not important for determining that it DID happen.
And I can say it happened naturally because if something happens it follows the laws of physics by definition.
So either it follows the laws as we currently understand them and we haven’t figured out how or there are rules governing it that we have not discovered yet. And yes god is possible because it isn’t possible to prove a negative. But if god existed it would be because the laws of the universe allow for a god in the first place.
In addition for the age of the universe it cannot be younger than the oldest thing in it. We can gather information of the some of the first supernovae through their after effects. This also gives insight on the age.
The CMBR only shows radiation hotspots. The interpretation of that data is where the flaws originate. Even by using red shift analysis, it can only tell you how fast it’s moving away (rate of speed), not distance. That could only be deduced with an assumed starting point. Again, you must assume 14B yr old universe. There is nothing to prove that.
I just explained how it’s proven I’m not repeating things.
And I’m not discussing the BASIC physics involved in determining how far away something is. It’s so ridiculous that you’d even suggest that would be a difficulty it ONCE AGAIN shows your utter lack of knowledge about these subjects
“The reason why the Big Bang happened is important for knowledge sake but it is not important for determining that it DID happen.”
Yes it is IF you assume a naturalistic beginning. If you’re open to the supernatural then we could move on from this.
“And I can say it happened naturally because if something happens it follows the laws of physics by definition.“
Not true, and this statement is why I keep coming back to the origin. You have said God is possible but then revert back to a natural origin that breaks the natural laws. This is inconsistent logic.
Do you know the 1st and 2nd law of thermodynamics? A natural origin of the universe breaks both.
God cannot exist if it is impossible for god to exist. That’s why he must fit within the laws of physics.
Even if god caused the Big Bang the Big Bang happened. That’s why the cause is not important when determining only if something happened
Henry, politika...let her ‘believe’ whatever the hell she wants to and ignore her. She obviously has nothing else to do whatsoever. I think kscott is a she, but I have no proof. Lol!
The definition of ‘theory’ according to Webster...
Definition of theory for English Language Learners. : an idea or set of ideas that is intended to explain facts or events. : an idea that is suggested or presented as possibly true but that is not known or proven to be true. : the general principles or ideas that relate to a particular subject.
Note the 2nd section “not known or proven to be true”
Katerina as I explained before a theory in colloquial use is different than a scientific theory. A scientific theory is proven and back with overwhelming evidence.
Such theories include evolution and the Big Bang like we’ve been discussing but to show you how theories mean proven other theories include germ theory cell theory heliocentric theory and gravitational theory. None of those would be argued whatsoever and it’s the same with the other two
No, as the Creator, God does not follow the laws He created. That’s not even a logical thought. We made robots but no one says we have to follow the programming we created. We are conscious beings, they are not.
“A scientific theory is proven and back with overwhelming evidence.”
You have this engrained into your brian from indoctrination. We’ve all been taught this but it’s not true. I can see that this conversation isn’t going to change your mind so we’ll agree to disagree.
I’m repeating the definition of something that people don’t seem to understand chill the fuck out with that
Kscott, I’m sorry but it’s not possible for a debate to take place when the people debating are not rational. If you can’t agree on terms of convention, then there’s no point in debating at all.
You don’t get to chance the definition of a scientific theory because you don’t like it.
“A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been REPEATEDLY confirmed through OBSERVATION and EXPERIMENT.”
Since no one can carry out an experiment to repeat the beginning of the universe, nor recreate the action of one organism evolving into another, or abiogenesis then those topics are clearly not able to be considered scientific theories. This case is closed.
We absolutely have seen evolution happening. And I haven’t talked about abiogenesis once not sure where that came from.
And I’ve already explained the Big Bang I’m not doing it again
You’re just not listening. And it’s probably because you don’t want to. Goodbye
Where have we seen one organism evolve into another?
You’re getting very frustrated because you can’t defend your weak position. The very definition of “scientific theory” precludes the theory of evolution and the Big Bang from being scientific in nature. They are theoretical only.
In case it wasn’t clear from the goodbye. You are a lost cause I’m done talking to you about this
I said earlier that we should agree to disagree but you continued on. There are lots of great books by scientists of all disciplines I could recommend though I don’t think you’d read them.
Already read a lot of them. Most of not all of the creationist arguments are poorly constructed, illogical and ad hoc.
That’s why I’m not a creationist
I wasn’t referring to creationist arguments but the major flaws and inaccuracies of the theories you claim are “proven fact”. They’re not even close.
Critical analysis of the theories easily prove they’re not tenable. They’ve been pushed on you in order to believe God doesn’t exist.
That would still be life, making the death (before or after) irrelevant. And absent any reason to think there is such a thing, no.
Yes, but it's not like I'll be around to be disappointed if there is no afterlife.
The statement itself makes absolutely no sense.
Yes it does, surely you know what it means.
Death is the opposite of life. Life and death are states that can’t persist at the same time. It makes no sense.
Interesting thought, wert. I like it. 😉
That’s why they use the word after and not the word simultaneously...
@cluney... and stop calling me Shirley.
I believe that the DMT released into your system at the precise moment your brain realizes it is going to die is so intense that it launches you into an eternal experience that happens in a millisecond. Therefore, everyone experiences an "afterlife", but for the living, it is in an immeasurable moment. For the (nearly) dead, it is forever.
Thats my theory too! But all things must come to end so that would also end at some point
Yes, I believe in the afterlife. I will be spending eternity with Jesus and God in Heaven with my loved ones that have gone before me.
Yes I do❗️Do you have a better option❓
Evidence and reality.
Cite, OK then what’s your reality❓Mine is my faith is the substance of eternal life, but it’s reality can’t yet be seen, till we leave this current reality.
You missed the other part.
Yes. I believe in Heaven, Hell, ghosts, and demons.
It sure would make things interesting.
No evidence, so no. Religion is the denial phase of grieving your mortality.
Still all dressed up with no place to go, eh Princey❓
There's no place to go, shippy. No evidence of it at all. Besides churches at least, but you know I don't go to those.
Speaking of churches and evidence...can we now throw our the idea of one always being safe in The House of The Lord? I think today disproved that idea quite well.
Prince, because you focus on the here & now, your saying what happened to those good people in Texas was they’re tragic final end & it’s all over for them, which is the your greatest error, saying one can’t make a change in their life, to have eternal life. Matthew 10:32-33, Jesus said, “Whoever acknowledges me before others on earth, I will acknowledge them before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before others here on earth, I will disown before my father in heaven.”
For a non believer like you they are forever gone, for believers like them & myself, it’s their new beginning already in eternity with the God, because his son, made it possible for them to do so ! I know who I believe in, & I’m convinced God through Christ, is able to keep me, because of what I’ve committed to them, before I leave this earth.
*tips fedora* god is dead normies REEEEEEEEEEE
Whys that a negative thing? If people take comfort in believing there's life after death then let them believe it. Ya know?
As much as I want to I don't see any evidence of it, so sadly no.
You won’t see that until after you die. JS! Lol
If Atheists are correct they would not exist to have a “I told you so moment” lol. I truly hope their is something after this, I really do. But no hard evidence as of yet, sadly.
And it's not like I don't believe to be smug. Again I hope there is something afterwords
Pascal's Wager is so cliche, gorilla.
JS means “Just saying.”
I’m just pointing out that this is something you have to take on faith because none of us can die and then come back to tell about it. You either believe it on faith or you don’t and then it’s too late if you’re wrong.
Ok let me clarify, I see no evidence of any life after we die. Hope that clears up any misunderstandings of my view.
My mistake, gorilla. Apologies.
Pascal's Wager will come up in this poll eventually, though. I can tell you that. Theists are a record on repeat....
No worries. Ya I do hope something is their.. I don’t want to “END”, but like I said, see nothing to prove it, and the more I research the more I see that religion was setup as a means of “control”. I mean why would a god care if I slapped around what he endowed me with anyway? Lol.. it’s the “Invisible judge watching me! Kind of like Santa, but at least “Santa” made good with the gifts in this life! Lol
All you anti-eternal lifers, just keep on denying, till we all😵croak, then I’ll see ya on the other side, you can try to explain, how we all got there😳
Welll.... IF you see us, if it is true, you should really worry about where YOU are? 👹👹👹👹👹
That’s what I was going to say, Gorilla. Shippy, I don’t think they’re going to be the same place we are, sad to say!
4JC, did you forget the Rich-man & Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31❓They could communicate together from two totally different locations, a good one(Lazarus) & a bad one(Rich man).
“What should we learn about the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16?”
What an AWESOME site, Shippy! I had never heard of it, and am seriously considering applying to be a writer. Are you saying I should input the question you asked into that site and there is a good article about that?
I admit I hadn’t thought about the rich man and Lazarus. Many people see it as just a parable, but I’ve heard that since it says a CERTAIN rich man and names Lazarus, that it is possibly not just a parable.
If it IS so that those in hell will be able to see us in Heaven and the differences, how much more in torment will they be, knowing what they have given up, and that they have no chance of changing their circumstances—that it’s eternally too late, and no matter how much they regret it and beg, that eternity will get no better for them. That’s a REALLY sobering thought!
4JC, yes just put the statement in the website search box & it will pull up the article as I stated it, or use my favorite, Google. Happy hunting👍🏻
How about reading up on Anton LaVey's dying words. If you don't know who he was, he started the Church of Satan.
4JC, I don't have faith in anything. I believe in what I can see.
ksott, I watched the compelling video of Anton LaVey, the founder of the church of Satan, recanting his lifelong denial of the truth of God & Christ’s power, while embracing Satan. Prince & others like him, will probably will still disavow or dismiss the video, as they have all eternal truth, God help them because, Satan isn’t going too !
bower, “For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is the power of God.” 1Corinthians 1:18
Cool, cool. Good for you.
What does the Bible mean when it says , “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God’”?”
Listen, maybe there is a God, I don't claim to know..I just haven't seen any evidence of one, especially not specifically the Christian God, so I'm not going to live my life by it
Bible says a lot of things, so does the Hindu, Jewish, Muslim holy books, does not make any or all of them fact.
LaVey was not an atheist, but his dying words speak volumes about what life after death is like. He is someone who was also very deceived but unfortunately didn't learn the truth until it was too late.
Bower, have you spent any time wanting to learn the truth with an open heart?
I don't know exactly what that means, but I have read the bible and I've prayed before.
All religions are different, and all say they are the CORRECT one. They cannot ALL be right, but they CAN all be WRONG.
bower, my dad once told me the difference between an ignorant & a stupid person is, the ignorant person simply doesn’t know, but listens to others & is willing reason & learn, the stupid person is unwilling to listen to others, thinks they already know & their minds closed to all else, but their own thoughts & opinions. Which are you ?
Ignorant I guess lol. Of course I am willing to listen to people from all religions
bower & gorilla, see this site & question below⬇️
With all the different religions, how can I know which one is correct?
I stopped at the homosexuality question. Not born that way and it’s a sin? Ya, another reason I have rejected the Bible, make sure you kill your neighbor if you see him working on Sunday as well, because it says that too.
Yeah I'm actually lesbian haha
I guess your screwed then Bower! 👹👹👹👹
Some would say lol
Nowhere does the Bible say to kill your neighbor period.
gorilla, speak for all the opinions, biases, in your own mind, but not for bower or God !
“For who knows a person’s thoughts, except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God, except the spirit of God. 1Corinthians 2:11
Kacott you don’t even know your own holy book?
“Six days work shall be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death.”
And you do the same then, for my heart is good because I choose it to be, one who is good for fear of punishment is not true to himself, and “god” would know this..
Gorilla, The Bible teaches Christians, to love all sinners, but as for all of us, hate the sins, that’s one of the profound differences between the Bible & Koran, for their homsexuals, adulterers,& a host of other religions infractions, it’s not reconciliation & forgiveness, its death, dismemberment plus separation ! Apparently you haven’t read or understand much of either one🤔!
I don’t accept the notion of a creator without proof, so the books are nothing more then works of fiction. And it does not matter what the books say because the follower of the religion will attribute their morality to whatever is written in the book. That’s why good people are made to do bad things in the name of their god and holy book.
Shipley have you read the Old Testament by the way? I just posted a passage saying to hill if someone works on the sabbath day!? I guess YOU have not studied the books of the Bible 🤔
Hill = KILL
"Shall be put to death" means to not have eternal life. God wasn't commanding them to kill people that work on the Sabbath.
I don’t see it that way, but no internal life for working on Sundays... you don’t think that’s harsh, just for not working?
I can find many other passages that say to kill...
gorilla, you speak & quote from the Old Testament, which records God seeking to save his chosen people the Jews, who constantly turned away from him, then he sent, his son, Jesus to seek out & save the whole sinful world, as recorded in the New Testament, which he has done & is still doing, but amazingly God gives us all the choice to accept or reject both him & his son.
Agreed, and so does every other holy book, just hope you accepted the correct one, otherwise you may have to tell Shiva, Zeus or Ra or Thor why you worshiped the wrong god.
gorilla, ever read about the prodigal son, Luke 15:11-32, The son represented is “US” & the father, running to welcome them back represents “GOD”. That’s the God I worship & want to spend eternity with, I dont know why or how you missed him ?
Believe what you want my friend that is what US, as in United States, is about. Freedom of religion...
Many of those other gods you have mentioned are really one and the same entity, Lucifer, Satan, Ra, Horus, etc. They worshipped the wrong, deceiving god and naturally now it looks like multiple different religions. Unfortunately they all tell the same story but with the wrong god.
Again, worship whom and who you please, not my place to tell anyone what to believe in, but don’t expect me to believe the same thing. I was raised Catholic, and Don’t think the Bible game our pastor the right to touch little boys. Which he did. So where was his morality? That along with many other truths I have found and lack of proof has got me to what my believes are today. But that’s me..
Never read of any of your “Gods” listed above loving me enough, to send their only Son to seek all the lost. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his one & only son, that whoever believes him, will not perish, but have eternal life.”
Gorilla, like you I distrust the Catholic Church. The Pope and the organization do not demonstrate Christian qualities, however, that doesn't necessarily mean the followers are not Christians. I feel they have been deceived too, but the many features followers do mean well.
Actually read the Egyptian gods, very similar story..
gorilla, why do you keep building “strawmen” in trying to dismiss & discredit a loving God, by using those who have sinned who he’s calling to turn away from those Sins & be saved❓2Peter3:9, “God is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to turn away from sin.”
"Actually read the Egyptian gods, very similar story"
Gorilla, that's exactly what I already said except they worshipped the wrong god, the great deceiver.
We can all seek Gods word & not the teachings of men & the denominations that follow them, plus the institutions that have grown from them, I’m simply trying to follow Christ, & seek to speak where God speaks, worship & serve as stated in the New Testament & nothing else !
And I said you have every right to do so, not stopping you from believing what you want, and I’m sure my values line up with your very well in how to lead a good life, out only difference is on the creator issue and what happens at death.
Well said, Shippy
Gorilla, you may lead what you consider a "good" life but if it doesn't follow Christ's teachings then it doesn't matter what you believe. We can only find eternal life through Jesus Christ.
Ok well I’ll be a good person in this life and I guess eternal life for me then, why do you care? As long as I’m good in this life and don’t hurt others, My afterlife should mean nothing to you..
No eternal life for me that is....
Because the alternative to eternal life is not something you will want. As Christians, we want to help bring as many people to the light of truth that is Jesus Christ so they, too, can have eternal life.
Let me ask you a question. If your son was going to do something that would get him killed, would you try to deter him or just let him do it?
... wait you mean like god “didn’t” do for his son Jesus and let him get crucified?
Jesus chose His fate. He had free will too.
A choice of sin in the Christian doctrine isn't free will.
One option provides reward while the other provides punishment.
Say there are two paths. If you take one I will give you a million dollars and the other I will cut off your arms. Is that free will? Am I truly giving you a choice?I
And so do we... so you should let me exercise my free will of what to believe.
Jesus choose death over life.... someone just said he had free will, and again this is if you believe what you do, I don’t believe in an afterlife at least not the one your talking about, so does not matter to me if I accept this or not..
"A choice of sin in the Christian doctrine isn't free will"
I don't follow. Jesus didn't choose sin. He allowed them to crucify Him for the sake of eternal life not just for Him but also to take the punishment for all who should believe and also receive eternal life.
Gorilla, we are allowing you your free will. None of us can save you. Only Jesus can do that.
Ok then let him do so, and we are done here. May you all live long and happy lives!
I’ve just read this VERY long convo, & just want to add 1 thing here at the end.
Yes, I do believe both of you have free will & you can choose to accept or reject Jesus, Bower & Gorilla. That’s entirely up to you & I’m not pressuring you to do so.
All evangelical Christians WILL try to warn you, though, because, like God, who says He doesn’t want ANY to perish, we don’t either. But we can’t make you choose Jesus. Ultimately that is up to you.
Bower, your question about the two paths—