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RussianThunder November 5th, 2017 12:43pm

Ok. Controversial question. If a woman wanted into show business and decided the casting couch was a price she was willing to pay, is she still a victim? If she could leave any time and doesn’t report it but her career rises. Is she a victim?

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Ducttape
11/10/17 11:40 am

Not a victim. If anything she is enabling that awful system by going along with it. Now if she goes along with it willingly and then decides once’s others report actual abuse to switch her stance and suddenly become not ok with it, She’s a hypocrite.

bluerum29 optimistic idealist
11/05/17 3:29 pm

Nor a victim, made a choice to advance a career. It's all good.

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DonWichita Kansas
11/05/17 4:15 pm

I agree, except for the "all good" part.

timeout Boston Strong
11/05/17 3:16 pm

Of course she is. No woman or man for that matter shouldn’t be forced to do something by someone of power.

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Zod Above Pugetropolis
11/05/17 1:48 pm

Is a slave still a slave because he "willingly" does as he's told rather than take another beating?

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PinkLabrador
11/05/17 1:31 pm

Based on what you said, she is not a victim. She is pathetic.

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PyroSadist like my comments follow
11/05/17 10:57 am

Nope....she's williing to pay the price for advancement

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lcamino Florida
11/05/17 10:40 am

It depends on who initiated the sexual advances. If she or he seduced someone in a powerful position for their own advancement, they aren’t a victim. If a person in power, who can get others hired or fired, uses their position to intimidate others into having sex, or keeping quite about unwanted advances or language, that is abuse and harassment. Very unethical.

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cowboy Come on, man
11/05/17 9:21 am

I had a similar question a few weeks ago when this story broke.

The women are whores. They got rich and famous and now the whores get to play the victims. It’s so hard to be a woman.... πŸ™„

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TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
11/05/17 9:14 am

No. If she willingly sacrificed her dignity and self-worth for career advancement, she’s an amoral, ambition-driven opportunist, NOT anybody’s victim.

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OGGramps19 Connecticut
11/05/17 8:21 am

If you’re saying that’s the only way her career can take off then yea victim but if she just wants the opportunity then no

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orgblu10 Shamerica
11/05/17 8:17 am

It sounds like it was her decision to follow that "path" rather than earn her fame and fortune by actually perfecting her acting skills. In that case, she's not a victim, but a willing, informed participant.

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Finny Conservative Lesbian
11/05/17 8:50 am

In a way accepting that it's a price she wants to say is bordering on a form of consent

.

chickencookie
11/05/17 8:15 am

No. Some grabbed the opportunity and got a career and millions out of it. Poor Meryl Streep had no idea all of this was going on πŸ€” while even the youngest actresses and others in her age range knew. Sure makes me wonder. Jessica Lange had a two year affair with Harvey 🀒 and highest paid actress Jennifer Lawrence saw the “Silver Lining Playbook” by sleeping with Harvey and getting her Oscar πŸ˜’

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chickencookie
11/05/17 8:17 am

My opinion of Hollywood has reached an all time low. Now we know why there is so much sex in tv and movies because these perverts have polluted our culture since the 1940’s for the most part.

RussianThunder Russia and USA
11/05/17 8:59 am

I think it started in the silent movie days.

RussianThunder Russia and USA
11/05/17 9:07 am

Jessica Lange? Is she good? I am not sure I’ve seen a movie with her in it. Was sleeping with him how she got famous? (I know her name). Meryl Streep is one of the most talented actresses alive today.

RussianThunder Russia and USA
11/05/17 9:10 am

So, Lange and Lawrence would not be victims? Harvey was still wrong. My question is not to shift blame or say women are deserving but a 2 year affair seems consensual and was Lange willing to pay that price for fame and fortune.

chickencookie
11/05/17 11:20 am

Jessica had a two year affair with him. That’s not a victim. She might be on American Horror Story now although I’m not sure. She was big in the 80’s. She is older. She was in the movie Tootsie.

chickencookie
11/05/17 11:23 am

Jennifer Lawrence is a well known coke head and drinker. I have no doubt she would have done anything to get in a movie. If you are harassed and feel ashamed and run out of the room screaming, you are a victim. If you work for him despite his advances after you are successful you are not a victim.

chickencookie
11/05/17 11:26 am

Gwenyth Paltrow’s parents were Hollywood royalty. Her father a producer and her mother a long time actress. When Gwenyth was “a kid” as she describes it at 22 she was already living with Brad Pitt, Johnny Depp and Ben Affleck.

chickencookie
11/05/17 11:28 am

Even though Harvey harassed her and she did not do anything she still continued to work for him on several movies. Why didn’t her parents say anything? Were they afraid of Harvey too?

drself Gated Community
11/05/17 7:57 am

She or he consented. However, the person with the power is a predator. He should not be making that an option.

Kay41 the Midwest
11/05/17 7:40 am

I guess I'd say she is more a victim of a system that promotes this as a way to reach the top. But, not a victim in the sense that she can come back later and accuse this person of anything.

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Diogenes Lagoa Time
11/05/17 7:28 am

I guess it depends how ugly she is as to which side bears blame! Are we talking a butter face? Then it could be both their fault. Just sayin'!

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RussianThunder Russia and USA
11/05/17 9:02 am

Are you being serious are sarcastic?

GetALoadOfThis
11/05/17 7:26 am

OK if she KNOWS she is putting herself in a bad situation, then I do feel as though she is at some fault for being in the situation, but it's still not consent. In other words "she had it coming" as opposed to "she deserved it" if I'm being blunt.

GetALoadOfThis
11/05/17 7:28 am

Forgot to answer the original question. She only becomes a victim if something happens to her without her specific consent.

RussianThunder Russia and USA
11/05/17 9:12 am

Therein lies the crux of my question. How on earth do we prove or disprove consent in an adult?

GetALoadOfThis
11/05/17 10:49 am

It really does have to be on a case by case basis. I personally believe that consent is incredibly ill defined within society. Like literally I could ask a man I was just sleeping with if it's OK to blow him have him accept, grab his ass to get a better hold and he gets hurt because he didn't give me consent to touch him on that quadrant of his buttcheek. He could claim I sexually assaulted him but there is no reason why he is strictly wrong. The counter point is that you would need evidance of it taking place for me to be sent to jail, and that just doesn't happen. All I have to do is say "it was consensual" and you don't really have a claim against that because people can't prove that you committed a SPECIFIC sexual act against their will when they were willing to commit others. I personally see this as a massive consequence of sex being a highly unregulated act. Weather or not that should change is a debate I don't know how to handle.

GetALoadOfThis
11/05/17 10:52 am

You need evidence to disprove it. It's not about proving consent it's about proving the lack of it. And that is why I generally am in favor of laws that seem to largely protect rapists, because I love due process and innocent until PROVEN guilty.

ctskapski NB MD
11/05/17 7:21 am

The rules of consent are:
You have to fully understand the situation.
One person can't use coercion or authority to manipulate the other.
You have to agree to the terms.

It can be said that the casting director has a position of authority. I disagree, since this is a position in which an adult would be in voluntarily, and would also be able to leave if they wanted.

Regardless, if all three of those conditions are met, it's a consensual act, and she's not a victim of rape or sexual assault.

She is, however, the victim of a highly unethical practice, which should probably be stopped. (Which, it would stop, if people stopped consenting to it.)

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HammeringMan Gods Away On Business
11/05/17 7:41 am

Lady needs a home, she likes his car and his style. He looks like a reasonable life partner. They have a couple of sexual Encounters. Abuse of power?

ctskapski NB MD
11/05/17 8:35 am

No.

She doesn't have to live with him, and this is something she knows about before living with him. He's not in a position of authority when it begins.

Let's say a girl is in college, and the dean says she has to blow him to stay. That's abuse of power.

Let's say a boy lives with his older sister, she has custody, and she says if he wants to stay he has to "scratch her back". That's abuse of power.

What you've described is prostitution. I'm not personally against that.

HammeringMan Gods Away On Business
11/05/17 8:25 pm

I do not see premarital sex as prostitution.

Metamorphosis
11/05/17 7:15 am

No, I wouldn't say she was a victim. However, it might well be considered illegal. It is similar to prostitution. Both parties may be breaking the law. There are also workplace laws that need to be considered between employers and employees. Was any coercion involved?

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geoag02 Dallas, TX
11/05/17 7:14 am

I would say she is still a victim in the same sense as you would be if someone pointed a gun at you and ask for your wallet.

ozzy
11/05/17 6:59 am

Nope

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dylkohl The Media Lies
11/05/17 6:53 am

thought provoking question. i like it

ps: they all slept their way to the top

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Ebola1 Florida
11/05/17 6:24 am

I would say she is not a victim in that case.

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Malekithe R lyeh
11/05/17 5:59 am

Still a victim whether she participates or not.

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FacePalm That Trick Never Works
11/05/17 5:59 am

If the casting couch was her only route then yes, to some degree. I say this because of the coercion element and because it is implicit that men are not asked/forced to pay that price to work in the industry.

It is really easy to pass judgement and say that she "knew what she was getting into" or make unkind judgements about her morals (not saying that you are, RT), but the alternative for her is to not act and do something that does not require her to prostitute her body, when men do not have to make that choice
.
That inequity is an important factor when identifying victims and victimizers.

Good question, btw. I had to think about it.
.

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FacePalm That Trick Never Works
11/05/17 6:02 am

After reading your comment, I have to say: if anyone uses the casting couch to speed up their career, which may very well grow without incentive, and they do so willingly and with intent - I certainly hope they would be honest about it and not cry foul 20 years later. In those cases, victim does not apply.

Ebola1 Florida
11/05/17 6:22 am

And as we have seen it’s not only women who have been “victims” of the casting couch.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
11/05/17 2:14 pm

True that. The question specifically called out women, however.
8)

RussianThunder Russia and USA
11/05/17 5:53 am

My point is not to blame the victims but if an adult actress or actor willfully gives into harassment or advances in the hopes their careers are assisted, is that the same as what many other women must endure in the workplace?
If you willingly “sleep your way to the top” can you claim victimship 18 years later or would you still consider the woman a victim because of the actions and advancements of the man?
Again, I’m not trying to condemn victims or dismiss their claims. Obviously many are victimized and it’s disgusting. Yet are the few women and men who use their sexuality and willingly use the casting couch to get to the top, victims in the same way others are?
Is victimization always based only on the actions of the “predator” or do the actions of the “victim” come into play in rare circumstances?

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JackTorS SOH Flounder
11/05/17 5:59 am

Bottom line, you can’t use your sexuality to get what you want then claim victimhood later on. It was your choice, your decision to take that route.

JackTorS SOH Flounder
11/05/17 6:01 am

Now if someone approached them and said “sleep with me or you don’t get the part”, that’s a different story.

zimmy Florida
11/05/17 5:50 am

Yes, she shouldn’t have to be in that position in the first place.

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RussianThunder Russia and USA
11/05/17 5:44 am

πŸ’ πŸ’ πŸ’  QUESTION πŸ’ πŸ’ πŸ’ 
Ok. Controversial question. If a woman wanted into show business and decided the casting couch was a price she was willing to pay, is she still a victim? If she could leave any time and doesn’t report it but her career rises. Is she a victim