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LeftLibertarian The Age of Outrage
06/13/17 1:54 pm

I'm thinking most people are unfamiliar with what a failed state is,the political situation in Venezuela is disastrous and much of the country is in shambles, but that doesn't mean it's a failed state, the government still holds a monopoly on the use of violence, all though the legitimacy of that monopoly is being heavily challenged. So Venezuela is absolutely not a failed state, but you can argue that it can be a future candidate for a failed state.

Mackinaw Wolverine State, est.1837
06/12/17 1:25 am

What do you consider a failed state if Venezuela doesn't meet your criteria?

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
06/12/17 5:58 am

According to Wikipedia: "The Fund for Peace characterizes a failed state as having the following characteristics:

• Loss of control of its territory, or of the monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force therein
• Erosion of legitimate authority to make collective decisions
• Inability to provide public services
• Inability to interact with other states as a full member of the international community"

The only one of these four categories it meets in part is the public services, but it's the fault of the steep decline in oil prices and the government's failure to transition the economy away from oil which is most at fault. Yes, the government has made mistakes, but they're not a failed state.

The US on the other hand, the only thing from that list that the US meets is having control of its own territory. Especially its behavior in the international sphere is atrocious.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/12/17 11:26 pm

Please tell me you're not saying the US doesn't provide public services.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
06/13/17 12:18 am

It provides few services

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/13/17 12:22 am

So you don't have a fire department, a police department, public roads, a library, hospitals for indigents? You don't know about food stamps, WIC, medicare, medicaid? Those are just a few I can think of, off the top of my head.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/13/17 12:36 am

Oh, add sanitation services, running water, basically all the things that keep us from being a 3rd World Country!

Was, you really should travel to a 3rd World Country and then come back and compare it to the US! I think you would change your tune if you had to live in a cardboard shack, take a dump in the weeds, and drink water out of an unclean stream for a while!

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Mackinaw Wolverine State, est.1837
06/13/17 1:16 am

I can't help but laugh, this is like watching people argue over which pile of refuse is better. Only police and fire departments should be public services, if that.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/13/17 1:25 am

I don't understand what you mean, Mackinaw.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
06/13/17 4:37 am

The US government doesn't provide enough services. And the quality of living in third world countries is the fault of imperialism.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/13/17 2:24 pm

What services do you want them to provide that you don't have, Was? I was taught a work ethic growing up, and that you provide for yourself, and you don't depend on the government to provide for you.

No matter what the cause of the quality of life in 3rd world countries, do you deny that we have it better here than there? Or do you want to go live in Venezuela because you perceive they have more advantages than we do?

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DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
06/13/17 2:50 pm

Well the government provides more in Venezuela than it does here, but the economy is suffering, largely due to global capitalism in my opinion. I think the government should provide health care, higher education, etc etc. Yes I believe the workers should work. But they should also have these things guaranteed. Hard work doesn't guarantee these things in capitalism.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/13/17 4:14 pm

Why all of a sudden should the government pay for these things? Our founding fathers didn't expect this, the settlers who sacrificed to settle the west didn't expect it. Why should we?

You do realize that none of these things are free, and that if the government pays for them your taxes are going to go WAY up, right? Why should I have to pay for your college education when I'm still struggling to pay on hubby's from 1985? Why should I have to pay for your education when I couldn't afford to send my own kids to college? I will NEVER vote to pay out of my pocket in order to give someone else that isn't working for it something free!

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DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
06/13/17 4:24 pm

"the settlers who sacrificed to settle the west didn't expect it"

Please, that's such an idealized view of Manifest Destiny.

I'm not asking you to pay for my education. I'm asking for the state to pay for our education. I know it's not free. But I'm not asking you to pay for mine.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/13/17 8:57 pm

I will have to, though, when my taxes go up to pay for your education. We're already paying close to 50% of our income on taxes and insurance! We can't afford to pay for other people's college education, too! Where do you think they're going to get the money for your free education from?

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
06/13/17 9:04 pm

I agree with you! Taxes on the working class should go down, and the state should pay insurance expenses. The student debt you owe should be annulled. Now look at your disposable income!

If the state owns the various industries, then it will be able to distribute goods essentially for free, and the only costs which will need to be supplemented is for labor. It ends up so that when you go to the doctor, all you're laying for is what is needed for his income, etc. And the state would also pay supply some of the source of his income through taxes. At some point this should be phased out, leaving no money and everyone participating in free and voluntary economic interactions. But for now the society isn't ready for that. People still have residual bourgeois individualism, and thus access to food can't just be a free for all.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
06/13/17 9:08 pm

I can't see this EVER happening in America! Sorry! Lol

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
06/13/17 9:12 pm

Lol me too, the American proletariat isn't revolutionary. I'm looking primarily to the third world and Eastern Europe to lead the fight, and hopefully force the first world to try being equal instead of so selfish and imperialist. As soon as that happens, the standard of living for the western proletariat will become less inflated, and they will refind their revolutionary potential.

RagingMystic covfefe
06/11/17 8:12 pm

Another example of why totalitarianism doesn't work.

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DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
06/11/17 9:03 pm

It's not totalitarian though