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ReligiousCommie No Longer Active
06/12/17 9:49 am

Opinions are not lies, nor are they truths. They're subjective.

kspells TheOtherOtherside
06/12/17 2:32 am

When you know your opinion is wrong, wish it wasn't and are trying to convince enough people to make it happen. Common consensus.

Zod Above Pugetropolis
06/09/17 4:53 pm

An opinion cannot be a lie, any more than it can be a truth. But an opinion can be based on a lie, and an opinion can be lied about.

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drself Gated Community
06/09/17 4:30 pm

When you base your opinion on information you know to be false.

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badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 5:10 pm

Then it's not an opinion. It's just a lie.

martyt02
06/09/17 2:23 pm

Your opinion can be based on lies and misinformation, but it can not be a lie.

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badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 2:15 pm

Can be what? An opinion can be a lie?

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 2:25 pm

An opinion can be based on lies and misinformation, but it can not be a lie. Otherwise it's just a lie. Not an opinion. If you're lying it's not an opinion anymore.

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 5:11 pm

Thanks. But I'm better now. I just took a dump.

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 5:13 pm

Is that your idea of a debate? You need to just post on Huffington post and YouTube. Those people there are Ässholes too. You'll get along just fine.

followingsea Illinois is
06/09/17 5:48 pm

Don't debate, full description of you.

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 5:59 pm

I don't understand you. You seem to be a conservative and I agree with your stance on everything. You don't debate me you just say mean things. What did I do to you and why do you even follow me? Or is it something in this one poll that ticks you off?

followingsea Illinois is
06/09/17 6:07 pm

Looked up, last night, thought I saw full, moon ; )

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 6:14 pm

You did. And there's an eclipse in August. Don't miss it.

lj74
06/09/17 1:13 pm

When it's a fabricated argument based on purposefully erroneous data disguised to be disinformation

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badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 1:15 pm

Well. It's not an opinion then. It's just a lie

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 1:16 pm

What you're talking about is propaganda

Confucius Cage free No antibiotics
06/09/17 1:17 pm

If your opinion is backed by faulty information, then it is a lie.

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 6:15 pm

So if you and I have differing opinions about a beautiful person that walks into the party is one of us lying? Or both.

Mark3
06/09/17 12:40 pm

...presented as fact.

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badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 12:52 pm

Only a lie if the presenter knows it's a lie. Otherwise it's just an opinion.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
06/09/17 12:40 pm

When it is built upon a lie, It is the promulgation of a lie, even if it is couched as an "opinon".

It does not necessarily make the person a liar, however.

If the Opinion is presented as a fact, or the person holding it does not really believe it to be true to begin with - it is lie.

.

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badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 12:53 pm

Right, if the person knows it's a lie, it's a lie.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
06/09/17 6:40 pm

No if they know it is a lie, they are a liar.

It can BE a lie either way; people very often express ideas they got elsewhere as "opinions" when in fact they are simply repeating something that they heard from someone else. If what they heard and accepted as truth was in fact a lie, or at the very least a falsehood or deliberate misinformation, then the repeater is spreading a lie, but NOT guilty of being a liar.

φπ

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 6:47 pm

You are right that it's a lie if the information is known to be false. But it's not, if in your mind, the information is correct and you are just offering an opinion. A lie has to be willful. From Webster "A lie is a statement used intentionally for the purpose of deception." So if I offer an opinion based on my beliefs. That is not a lie. Those beliefs may be false but that doesn't make it a lie because it's not intended to deceive. We can both have different opinions of what's beautiful. That doesn't make one a liar.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
06/09/17 10:07 pm

Reread what I said, please. I specifically differentiated between a lie and a liar. A lie, repeated, even if by a person who believes the lie, is still a lie. The repeater is not a liar, however, because they believe it to be true.

Your example of beauty does not address all the correct definitions of a lie(noun).

Subjective opinions, as such, are not lies. They can be wrong, they can be built on fallacious information, they can stem from a lie, but unless the person expressing the opinion is knowingly attempting to deceive the audience, it is not a lie.

My point is that many people will express opinions that are not their own and/or will call a falsehood an opinion in order to avoid being called out as liars.

...

badattitude no place like home
06/10/17 9:25 am

I agree with you in that someone that believes something to be true and expresses an opinion based on those beliefs is not lying. Even if those beliefs are false. It's only a lie if they intend to deceive.

myob
06/09/17 12:14 pm

An opinion is a lie if you know down deep in your mind it is wrong and you still offer that opinion for public consumption.

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badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 12:16 pm

Then it's not really an opinion is it. It's propaganda. And just a lie.

Korosensei Maine
06/09/17 11:30 am

When it's stated as fact

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badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 10:52 am

I disagree. If I think someone is ugly, it's not true or untrue. It's just an opinion.

44YY Boston, MA
06/09/17 10:53 am

People's judgement of what is and isn't an opinion these days is very skewed

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 10:55 am

They may have the facts wrong in their head and their opinion may be wrong, but it's not a lie. It's just an opinion. Right? You may or may not change their opinion by showing them the facts. We do that all the time here. People that have different opinions aren't liars, they just have different opinions.

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 10:55 am

Someone may be lying. But that's not an opinion.

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 10:56 am

If someone lies, they know it's a lie and are not offering an opinion anymore.

44YY Boston, MA
06/09/17 11:37 am

If I say the earth is flat is that an opinion?

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 12:11 pm

Yes, it is not a correct opinion based on facts but it's still just an opinion not a lie. Unless you're just flat out lying. Which I think you are since you don't believe it. See my point?

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 10:25 am

Interesting. They certainly do have a lot of opinions.

Suzan Hawaii
06/09/17 10:17 am

An opinion may not be a lie, but it can be misguided. Or if extreme, a type of blindness.

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badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 10:18 am

Very good. It may not be correct, but it's not a lie.

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 10:18 am

You're bloviating.

goldz oh this world
06/09/17 9:53 am

A fact would be that climate change is happening. An opinion would be that we should not use the technology of today to deal with the problems of tomorrow. An opinion that is a lie would be that climate change isn't happening.

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badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 10:21 am

I don't agree. Someone my have an opinion that there is not global warming while standing on the South Pole without ice. It's an opinion that is not correct but it's not a lie. Someone may have bad information in their brain but it's their opinion. Not a lie. So the opinion may be wrong but it's not a lie.

suppressedID That is my secret Cap
06/09/17 9:39 am

You you know the facts but wilingly choose to ignore them.

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badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 9:43 am

What facts? We're talking about the opinion Trump expressed that Comey said was a lie. An opinion cannot be a lie. We're not talking about anything else here.

wearemonkeys77 Lest We Forget... Hodor
06/09/17 9:39 am

When it's factually incorrect

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badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 9:45 am

There's no facts in an opinion. Just differing opinions based on facts two people perceive. We can both witness the same event and have different opinions about what happened. It doesn't make it a lie.

FarmerManE djent
06/09/17 9:27 am

When its stated like its the truth and done so to misslead people

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badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 9:30 am

I understand your worry, but how can you prove what someone has in his mind? Especially when they're just saying how they felt about how an operation was running. You can say that Walmart on thanksgiving evening is in disarray but the management is going to saying it's working just like we planned.

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 9:31 am

I really like your new profile picture by the way. When did you get married?

FarmerManE djent
06/09/17 1:51 pm

What comes to mind for me are mostly politcal things. Like there's two sides on the comey issue, but only one can be right and we all know that. So that means one side is putting out an opinion that is misleading and false.

That was almost a year ago. July 16th will make 1 year

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 1:52 pm

So who do you think is misleading and false?

FarmerManE djent
06/10/17 5:18 am

I really don't know which side is right on this one

buffalozulu New Adventures
06/09/17 8:46 am

An opinion can't be inherently false. However, it can be based on very dubious information, misguided, or otherwise formed on false premises

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badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 8:46 am

Yep. Still not a lie though.

buffalozulu New Adventures
06/09/17 8:50 am

On opinion is an opinion and it can't be a lie. It can be based on lies, but it itself won't be

jarod California
06/09/17 9:15 am

"An opinion can't be inherently false."

What if my opinion is 2 + 2 = 5 ?

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 9:18 am

If that's your opinion then you aren't lying. If you're making a statement of facts then you'll have to prove your theory. But if it's an opinion about perception of a company in disarray that's harder to prove one way or the other. Because that's all perception. There's no hard numbers there.

buffalozulu New Adventures
06/09/17 9:18 am

Well then that's your opinion. It's based on false assumptions and premises but it itself is not "false"

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 9:19 am

How about this, in my opinion, based on the balance sheet, I believe that xyzzy corporation stock will skyrocket. That's an opinion based on numbers but still just an opinion. No lies there.

suppressedID That is my secret Cap
06/09/17 9:42 am

So basically you can say anything you want, no matter how unsubstantiated, as long as you couch it with "I feel…". 😒

youtu.be/xnhJWusyj4I

gonzoboy Arizona
06/09/17 8:45 am

"When it's..." shared as 'fact', in spite of evidence to the contrary.

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badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 8:47 am

Interesting. But in the opinion of the person making the statement, it is fact in their mind based on perception. Still not a lie.

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 8:50 am

When shown different evidence they may change their opinion. But not a lie. Interesting that people on. On the ground! Sides of the aisle will have opinions that are shown facts completely to the contrary of their opinion and still won't change their position. Is it a lie at that point. Maybe to themselves. But that in itself is an opinion of an observer.

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 8:50 am

Sorry. Siri sucks

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 8:51 am

When shown different evidence they may change their opinion. But not a lie. Interesting that people on both sides of the aisle will have opinions that are shown facts completely to the contrary of their opinion and still won't change their position. Is it a lie at that point? Maybe to themselves. But that in itself is an opinion of an outside observer.

gonzoboy Arizona
06/09/17 8:59 am

We could get into the 'weeds' on this one. I was loosely thinking -but not necessarily limiting my thoughts to- propaganda...

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 9:01 am

Oh. Good one. State sponsored propaganda would not be an opinion. It's meant to change your mind and give you an opinion. Interesting thought.

ctskapski x
06/09/17 8:38 am

When it's not actually an opinion.
Many people think certain things are opinions that aren't.

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ctskapski x
06/09/17 8:44 am

Flat Earth theory.
It can be easily disproven with mathematics and general observation.
It's not actually opinion, but I've heard it defended as such.

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 8:45 am

Wait, flat earth a theory not an opinion. A laughable theory. But nonetheless.

ctskapski x
06/09/17 8:53 am

I've heard it defended, when challenged as "that's just your opinion" which implies that the idea the earth is flat is an opinion to that person.
Otherwise, it wouldn't matter if it was just my opinion.

ctskapski x
06/09/17 8:53 am

In that case, at least, that person held it to be something one could take as a matter of opinion.
That's wrong.

ctskapski x
06/09/17 8:54 am

Or at least, he was wrong in his opinion that it was something that was a matter of opinion, rather than relating to fact.

ctskapski x
06/09/17 10:01 am

Yeah.

ItsYourBoy Roman Empire
06/09/17 8:13 am

When the person is telling you their opinion when it's not their opinion

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badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 8:16 am

Interesting, but it could become your opinion after you hear it. That's not a lie at that point. You just agree with it. We do that all the time on this app.

ZaQ777 Pittsburgh
06/09/17 8:10 am

Never. Opinions are inherently subjective. They can, however, be misinformed.

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Ebola1 Florida
06/09/17 8:00 am

When it's based on "facts" that are known to be false.

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badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 8:02 am

If I say you're ugly is that a fact, a lie or just an opinion?

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 8:05 am

If you say your house is a complete nut house right now because there's 5 kids playing in there, is it really a nut house or is that just an opinion? Because there's just kids playing. No real crazy people from the loony bin.

JDoe Its a gift
06/09/17 8:05 am

Opinion because it's subjective. If however, you say Trump is a competent leader, it would be a lie because it you would need to purposely ignore a lot of facts.

Ebola1 Florida
06/09/17 8:08 am

If you said I was ugly that would be a lie. If you said my house was a not house that would be an opinion. 😂😂

Ebola1 Florida
06/09/17 8:10 am

Or if you said Trump was the subject of a criminal investigation that would be a lie.

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 8:12 am

Excellent points, but still just opinions.

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 8:15 am

My point is obviously that Comey called Trump a liar based on his statement of an opinion. You can't lie about an opinion. It's how you feel at that moment. You may be incorrect based on your perception, but it's not a lie.

JDoe Its a gift
06/09/17 8:31 am

Sounds like your spinning things like mad to try and put Trump in any kind of positive light. Five months in and this is what we are stuck with. Things aren't looking like they are moving in a better dissection anytime soon.

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 8:39 am

No, if he felt, in his opinion, that the FBI was in disarray, then he was expressing his opinion. In his mind he felt it was in disarray. An opinion cannot be a lie. It's an opinion. It may not be what someone else thinks. But it's just an opinion. I'm not talking about anything else. And for the liberal media to keep pushing the narrative that Comey said Trump lied, makes Comey a liar and the media backing him liars. So can we just move on? Comey lied about Trump lying. Or was at least mistaken.

Ebola1 Florida
06/09/17 8:39 am

I couldn't be happier with the direction that things are moving. It just needs to move a little faster.

JDoe Its a gift
06/09/17 8:43 am

"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters,"
- Donald Trump

This says a lot about Trump supporters.

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 8:44 am

So what do we know from the hearing yesterday. Trump was/ is not under investigation. Trump had an opinion about the FBI being in disarray. Not a lie. Trump made a statement to the director that many people have differing opinions about what it meant. But to the director, who's the only one that counts, he didn't ask him to stop the investigation. Which is actually legal for the president to do and is not obstruction. Ôbama did it several times. So let's move on with this crap, okay 👌🏿

DJ13
06/09/17 8:45 am

The lie was the reasons Trump and his administration first gave for Comey's firing. They changed their own reasoning a couple times until Trump admitted that it was to "relieve" the pressure of the investigation....

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 8:55 am

And in my opinion when Trump said that about 5th Ave. he was saying that you could now down a crowd in New York and not hit one Trump voter.

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 8:55 am

Damn you Siri. Sorry. I'll proofread better.

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 8:56 am

And in my opinion when Trump said that about 5th Ave. he was saying that you could mow down a crowd in New York and not hit one Trump voter.

DJ13
06/09/17 9:00 am

Not my opinion. Those are the facts as we have seen, heard and know them. Until Trump produces the tapes to prove otherwise. If you refuse to believe them, that's your free will....

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 9:04 am

So, we've all decided that it's all opinion because there's no facts to back up what someone thinks in their mind. If you want to make up stuff that you think is a fact just to make an issue out of a nothing burger then you need a girlfriend or something.

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 9:05 am

So. Let's decide to move on from this nothing burger and debate real issues. Healthcare, taxes, immigration, environment. 👌🏿 okay?

DJ13
06/09/17 9:05 am

That statement would be your opinion......

DJ13
06/09/17 9:07 am

You mean all those things that Trump is trying to push through to award the rich, while hurting the poor working class. But, that's just my opinion......lol

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 9:09 am

Lol. It is your opinion. Very good.

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 9:14 am

We can debate those issues. Good idea. Let's move on. Sorry the left couldn't make anything out of the nothing burger that cost about 14 million dollars in investigation so far. At least you see how the right feels about Benghazi, Loretta Lynch tarmac Clintons obstruction, Lerner IRS scandal, deleted emails after they were ordered not to and on and on and on. Oh well. Next time. We can debate those in a different poll.

DJ13
06/09/17 9:18 am

Those would all just be your "opinion". Correct?

badattitude no place like home
06/09/17 9:48 am

Now when we debate those, if we do, there's a lot of facts that will develop opinions. Right? Some will be obvious to me and some to you.

DJ13
06/09/17 9:51 am

We could only hope they would be obvious......lol