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Brandon2018 June 7th, 2017 11:42pm

South Korea is asking to be nuked with not accepting free missile defense from the United States.

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PointB Libertarian Centrist
06/08/17 5:14 am

South Korea already has a large missile defense system and anything else is an economic strain.

clmcd42 Texas
06/07/17 8:21 pm

No. They do not want to be nuked.

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Brandon2018 Stocks Are Overvalued
06/08/17 12:16 pm

Its a figure of speech. Nobody wants to be nuked

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
06/07/17 6:51 pm

Talk about an imperialist apologist. North Korea isn't gonna nuke the south. Mutually assured destruction.

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RussianThunder Russia and USA
06/07/17 7:29 pm

Normally I would agree but Jong-Il may not care about his own self destruction, if in fact it's truly him running the country

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
06/07/17 7:39 pm

I don't think Kim Jong-Un is a mental maniac like western media likes to portray him as.

SticksandStones Stop fearmongering
06/08/17 12:46 am

Of course not, Doctor, because North Korea isn't a slave to capitalist pigs, so it (and the fat dictator) can't be THAT bad, right?

Come on. What's with the apologist attitude towards all things non-capitalist lately? It's becoming a bit sheepy.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
06/08/17 1:45 am

Like what? You know, I'm anti-capitalist, though, so it shouldn't really be a surprise if I think anti-capitalism works.

RussianThunder Russia and USA
06/08/17 4:44 am

Jong-un is not madman insane but he and his father were unstable.

North Korea does not work. You can be anti-capitalist all you want but that country does not work. Not at all.

You can sit and talk until you are blue in the face about anti-capitalism and I will think you are misguided but sincere. Defend North Korea and you lose me. Even China is getting fed up with North Korea and we have been fed up for quite some time.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
06/08/17 9:42 am

Well China is capitalist so naturally they would be fed up with an anti-capitalist country. The fact of the matter is, western media when talking about North Korea never, or almost never, provide any sources. They just assert, hey Kim Jong-Un does crack cocaine! And people believe it. I find the blatant lies about North Korea to be proof that the country can't be that bad, or else the bourgeois media wouldn't have to lie about it. The truth is, there is little to no independent coverage of North Korea, so there's no real way to know the truth of what's going on in there.

SticksandStones Stop fearmongering
06/08/17 10:37 am

Honestly, I used to just disagree with you, but respect you. But now you sound like a child calling everything bourgeoisie and saying that capitliasim is evil and the West si just scared of anti-capitalist nations. We've been over North Korea before, Doctor. There are plenty of stories from people who have escaped of the widespread famine and fascism that occurs there. Personal accounts by normal people should be a good enough source for you.

But the West hates it, so it must be glorious. We all must just be scared of the great freedoms anti-capitalist North Korea enjoys...

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
06/08/17 10:48 am

You don't have to respect me or my views. I can get over it. But my views have changed a bit, and I don't think that's a problem. Fine if you do.

SticksandStones Stop fearmongering
06/08/17 10:54 am

I wasn't expecting you to care if there is a loss of respect, nor do I think you should. It just says something about your shift.

Anyway, when you're done with all of this talk about your views changing and all, would you care to get back to the topic being discussed?

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
06/08/17 11:07 am

Okay, you said that there are personal stories of people who have fled the DPRK who report of starvation and fascism. I can just as easily present stories of defectors who said they have a positive view of Kim Jong-Un and who say life isn't so bad in there. I could even present defectors who went to South Korea, who are trying to go back. But I'm not gonna use that as evidence that DPRK is a great place. I only bring that up to shed doubt on the idea that defectors who had bad experiences in the DPRK a) can speak for a whole nation, or b) that some of them, at least, have incentive to speak ill of the DPRK.

SticksandStones Stop fearmongering
06/08/17 11:15 am

I've never seen or heard about any of these defectors. Could you provide links to their testimonies? I'd be interested in seeing them.

And it is known that Kim Jong Un uses propaganda, so of course there would be people who have a positive opinion of him, usually the people who get to live in the city and don't have to deal with crippling poverty and lack of food. But when people who defect talk about whole towns where people are dying of starvation, it tells you something's wrong.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
06/08/17 11:28 am

"Why would someone who has escaped from a country like North Korea wish to return? Some answers may be found in an interview with a 64-year-old former defector named Choi that recently appeared in the North Korean press. According to a summary of the interview in the Korea Times, Choi reportedly said that she was treated as a “subhuman” and South Korean society was “cold-blooded” and lacking in human affection."

www.businessinsider.com/why-north-korean-defectors-keep-returning-home-2013-12

The last paragraph is indicative of standard treatment of the DPRK of western media, but I think the paragraph I cited is more important.

As I said, I'm skeptical of some of the claims of defectors who talk about how horrible it is, because of various incentives for them to make stuff up. But nevertheless, it's unlikely that the DPRK is some utopia, when the entire world (except China, essentially) has an embargo against the nation, and the UN refuses to send humanitarian aid.

SticksandStones Stop fearmongering
06/08/17 12:04 pm

"Last year Gianluca Spezza wrote about the issue for NK News, pointing out that many North Koreans aren't able to adapt to life socially (their accents often mark them out and they struggle with a faster pace of life) and financially (many North Korean defectors end up unemployed in the South, lacking employable skills).


While South Korea could perhaps be doing more to help defectors, North Korea has also taken the initiative. Kim Jong-un has also changed North Korea's policies on "double defectors" according to some reports, not only removing the threat of punishment insisted upon under his father's regime, but allegedly offering 50 million South Korean won ($45,000) and an opportunity to appear on television in Pyongyang."

Sure, when you're thrust into an entirely new environment and you have no money, a return to normality and $45,000 sounds pretty good. Also I'm willing to bet good money most of these "double defectors" are businesspeople or something. Not farmers or anything.

Brandon2018 Stocks Are Overvalued
06/08/17 12:14 pm

You really think Kim Jong Un is mentally stable? Hes the Tempermental Eric Cartman of Asia.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
06/08/17 12:53 pm

And what about the part about how South Korean society is, according to this defector, cold blooded and lacking affection?

SticksandStones Stop fearmongering
06/08/17 1:17 pm

When you speak a different language, have no money, and are experiencing culture shock, what do you expect?

Praetorianus Fair enough.
06/07/17 6:09 pm

Is it truly free, no strings attached?

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american6 Moderate Libertarian
06/07/17 5:58 pm

That's kinda like saying a girl wearing slutty clothes is asking to be raped.

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SticksandStones Stop fearmongering
06/08/17 12:47 am

No, it's not. It's like saying a girl who wears slutty clothes runs a higher risk of being raped by a terrible, disgusting person.

SticksandStones Stop fearmongering
06/08/17 12:48 am

Actually, I just read over the question and I think it could have been worded better.