Show of HandsShow of Hands

Show Of Hands May 25th, 2017 2:26pm

HUD Secretary Ben Carson said Wednesday that he "think[s] poverty to a large extent is also a state of mind," adding that the "right mindset" allows someone to escape poverty. Do you agree?

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Comments: Add Comment

justbcause
05/31/17 8:20 am

You can only be poor if you compare yourself to others, one can be happy and rich with nothing but his breathing body.

scubaagb
05/31/17 5:51 am

In my mind he meant the mindset that says "you can't escape this so don't try". Not that everyone who is poor isn't trying but there is a mindset in all of us to stay where we are comfortable and not push ourselves. So maybe it's not just poverty but people have that mindset.

GetALoadOfThis
05/28/17 10:10 pm

I agree, with many additional nuances. Sometimes they really can't escape it.

leftistatheist Antifa
05/28/17 9:14 pm

This quote and the 61% of people who agree is the dumbest thing I've seen today

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grego Glendale, CA
05/28/17 7:15 am

Agree. But it's not that simple. You can't force someone that change by taking away their life line. Positive reinforcement programs are the way to go. Subsidized childcare, Family planning programs, inexpensive drug rehabilitation, cheap or free college, corporate mentorship programs, etc. but taking away someone's food stamps and welfare only will lead to chaos, crime, and a broken society.

myob
05/26/17 6:38 pm

I truly didn't know we were poor until I was an adult.

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clipk0 Trump won, get over it.
05/26/17 3:36 pm

Well he should know he did it himself

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lcamino Florida and Georgia
05/27/17 7:58 am

That's what I was going to say !

LiamKneeson Massachusetts
05/26/17 12:18 pm

I mean, to be SUPER fair to Ben Carson, I guess that statement within a vacuum is technically true? But in context, he's really just implying that poverty is a moral failing on the part of Americans, which is insanely inaccurate. If you have a poor work ethic, are you going to be poor? Obviously. But Carson's implication is that, "If you're poor, it's completely your fault that you're in this situation, and if you can't pull yourself back up, you're just lazy." It's such a ridiculous cop out that just dismissed any and all economic obstacles in the country.

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lcamino Florida and Georgia
05/27/17 8:06 am

He pulled himself out of poverty. Thinking that you can accomplish more in life, and aren't stuck in poverty is key. Improving education available to the poor is the most important factor to providing opportunity for a better life.

Phiteros
05/27/17 11:57 am

That's just survivorship bias. He made it, but he is a rare exception, not the norm.

Henry123 Connecticut
05/26/17 11:06 am

That's a factor but it is not the only one

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alval California
05/26/17 10:17 am

While I believe this statement to be true, you must also give people the tools to attain the right mindset.

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Wyoming4178 Selma Indiana
05/26/17 10:11 am

Hell don't you know We Live in the Greatest County on the face of this earth. Just look how we treat our seniors and our veterans as an example like shit.
So please don't even try to say poverty is a state of mind. For those who honestly believe that I suggest Dumb Ass is a state of mind.

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alval California
05/26/17 10:27 am

Great Country yes. There are people in our great nation that only know poverty (no fault of their own). Yours and my work ethic was taught to us. IMO, the majority of people in poverty don't choose to be in their predicament but if given the tools, they would improve their lives..."teach a man to fish....." Have great day! 😎

Wyoming4178 Selma Indiana
05/26/17 10:46 am

If poverty is caused by oneself because they made a mistake when they were young and immature and now that follows you for the rest of life nonviolent drug offenders with no prior arrest for one example. That's with you until you die. I was taught we are all gods children we're going to make mistakes. My question should the mistake be an anchor around your neck impeding you from upward economic achievement be there until you die. Solve this problem first.

alval California
05/26/17 10:56 am

Actually, I was thinking of the little kid that was born into poverty through no fault of their own. The child that was not given a chance nor the tool to succeed. Believe it or not, more people are born into poverty than there are those that are in poverty through poor choices.

mfjd1948 rural johnson co iowa
05/26/17 9:44 am

No. Having the right mindset will help but you need other things going your way too. Need access to affordable healthcare, early schooling, good public transportation, low crime, affordable housing and most of all other persons who care about you.

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patriot321
05/26/17 8:26 am

Hey dems. I grew up in a poor city in New Jersey. No one gave me anything my whole life. I worked two jobs, went to night school. Started a business and now I have rental property and live in a gated community. I did that. Or I could have sold crack.

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Obvious101 MO
05/26/17 9:26 am

Good for you. But everyone ain't you. Knock off 20 of your IQ, or give you an LD, or severe ADHD, or deafness or blindness or schizophrenia or chronic depression and you would not have accomplished the things that you have. All can't rise from pov.

Obvious101 MO
05/26/17 9:42 am

It isn't a political issue or conservative vs liberal. It's just reality. Half of the population has an IQ < 100, not their fault, just the way we were all created. Jesus was smart enough to recognize that poverty is a statistical reality. Not you??

scrpnHOG Arizona
05/26/17 9:45 am

All can rise from poverty just takes the right mind set. A blind man can climb Mtn Everest. Don't use a disability as an excuse just means you have to work harder or take a different approach.

Wyoming4178 Selma Indiana
05/26/17 10:51 am

I have a question what does Hey DEMs have to do with this. How about compassionate REPUB's. Just a question?

NewGeneration Washington DC
05/26/17 7:07 am

In this country, yes it's possible, if you were born here. In other countries, no, which is why they immigrate to other countries like the US.

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SHIPPY1944 Tn.
05/26/17 5:22 am

I've read all the SOH comments, on Ben Carson's life in overcoming poverty & attaining success. Apparently most SOH commenters didn't bother to read what Ben Carson himself said, how He attributes his life & success to his creator, God Almighty !

Ben Carson's Religion, Explained - ThinkProgress

thinkprogress.org

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Obvious101 MO
05/26/17 9:30 am

What's your point? That God will save all who believe in him or her from a life of poverty because Ben Carson said so? Maybe that's not your point, but whatever your point was I missed it. Please have another go at stating it clearly. Thanks.

SHIPPY1944 Tn.
05/26/17 11:15 am

God doesn't isolate us from poverty, even his son Jesus was, poor, but God does insulate us, to enable us to overcome all of life's challenges, including poverty. The Bible & Ben Carson said, "I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me".

SHIPPY1944 Tn.
05/26/17 6:45 pm

Ob, did you read the article I attached ?

schoolmom1969 Nebraska
05/26/17 4:58 am

It is a part of it...but a person usually needs assistance from people that are not impoverished to get out, as well as support from his/her family/friends. Not necessarily financial assistance, but social and emotional assistance. Getting out of generational poverty is extremely difficult because people don't know how. They also don't understand the "unwritten" rules/language of the middle class or the wealthy class, and without that knowledge it's nearly impossible to do so. Carson is one example of someone who did, but he also was pushed and encouraged by his mother who worked for wealthy families. She brought home information, catalogs, magazines, books, and other items from that culture to help her kids. She also pushed her kids hard to get a good education. Read Ruby Paine.

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otto Olean, NY
05/26/17 4:57 am

I agree. And notice he qualified "to a large extent". Of course it helps more in some cases than others, and there are some circumstances that overwhelm, but by and large it is a major factor. What has been created, however, is a culture of entitlement. People have lost their drive and mental attitude to succeed because it is so much easier to sit back and receive everything politicians give them. And all it costs them is a vote every few years to keep the gravy train rolling. Until it no longer can, that is. Sure, that doesn't get them a mansion or a Maserati, but it gets them food and shelter and phones and anything else one needs and much of what they want while someone else works/pays for it. Yeah, it's a mentality intentionally controlled by big government to keep the masses dependent on them while they pretend they want to help them.

Obvious101 MO
05/26/17 9:50 am

What an ignorant republican/conservative rant. You clearly know nothing about being poor. Have another glass of cool aid!

otto Olean, NY
05/27/17 1:55 am

You're not hearing that I said this is NOT a blanket answer. I said there are SOME cases where "circumstances overwhelm." I am simply agreeing, as it is absolutely true, that, IN GENERAL, attitude is a major factor.

Actually, I grew up in a very low middle class home. I would not say poor, but many people WOULD say I was poor. Perhaps that has something to do with my being able to climb a bit higher. My childhood friends had no more and no less opportunity than I did. Many stayed in our original state, but many improved our lot. And the ones who stagnated were the ones with little ambition and with an attitude where they were "satisfied" with what The Man was willing to give them.

phalnx Ohio
05/26/17 4:42 am

Yeah, I think it mainly is...at least in this country. There's free and mandatory grade school education, and a variety of assistance programs. No one has to be poor if they're willing to work and study hard.

phalnx Ohio
05/26/17 12:39 pm

Mentally handicapped people excepted, of course. I'm not claiming that we can all be rich...that's Republican propaganda...but we can all at least be Working Class.

outlaw393 Wisconsin
05/26/17 1:11 am

Yeah I made up my mind to be rich. Now where's the money?

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smacc DunningKruger
05/25/17 11:51 pm

That is small thinking. It goes right along with all the anecdotal evidence people use to make a point. We have to think societally. Individuals fighting their way out of poverty does not solve poverty.

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trav Instagram, travisdover
05/25/17 9:54 pm

When I can't afford food or a place to sleep, I just meditate on how to be a better republican so I can afford more shit.

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Annabelle41 Michigan
05/25/17 9:42 pm

Definitely. I know a family that has been in poverty for generation after generation and if they were made to go work that could break that cycle and change peoples lives forever. Obama has made it so easy with cell phones, food stamps, housing, and no incentive to work to pay for those entitlements that people don't want to even work anymore. It's easier staying at home. Sad for all of us taxpayers paying for their laziness.

smacc DunningKruger
05/25/17 11:58 pm

With over 45 million people in poverty in America can you conceptualize a way for them all to change there attitude and raise themselves up? Is that possible or would those not in poverty have to stop them to protect their piece of the pie?

benseth 11,780 votes
05/25/17 9:01 pm

There are so many variables involved. Although it is true that you're more likely to succeed with the right mindset and less likely with a bad mindset, it is a very simplistic view. And it's not very productive for the head of hud to say this in a mass media way. It's like he's blaming poor people for being poor instead of being casualties of a harsh world (not all poor people have the mindset of being lazy and leeching off the government). This is something better said in a one on one setting. And in a general sense is correct.

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keamyx The Great state of Texas
05/25/17 9:48 pm

I was with you in the beginning but why not put it out there? That is part of the PC evolution. Think about your own children. If one is down on their luck and running through bad times to you tell them that it's OK and you should just be satisfied? Or do you tell them that it has been rough but you need to move forward? The government tries to give them an "out" by giving them your and my money. Don't worry, we will take care of you.

benseth 11,780 votes
05/25/17 11:00 pm

Nope. You either misread or didn't complete the reading. Speaking to your child is a one on one setting. I'm all fine with being blunt if you have to in that instance. But there are things you shouldn't say as a government official to a mass amount of people. It's not about being pc. It's about being positive and raising morale when you're a leader. The wake up calls should be given by counselors/social workers, who are good at being constructive while doing so.

messiah
05/25/17 8:34 pm

That does make sense. A bad mindset can lead to poverty, but growing up in poverty can also lead to a bad mindset and therefore more poverty likely. So even though he is right, he makes it seem like it is simple as having a positive attitude vs a negative attitude. Many other factors to consider.

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Casper Deep inthe Heart ofTexas
05/25/17 6:47 pm

There is nothing wrong with a positive mindset & clearly there is a correlation to wealth & well being. Ben Carson is a great thinker & a great HUD Secretary. Anybody critical of his discussion about "mindset poverty" should seriously consider examining their own mind set.

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toadder
05/25/17 7:18 pm

Mindfulness practitioners would solve the lack skilled blue collar labor jobs and white flight.

Casper Deep inthe Heart ofTexas
05/26/17 4:53 pm

I still don't understand why everything is race related.

Mental Bankruptcy applies to all of us afflicted.

toadder
05/26/17 5:01 pm

I was indirectly referring to his upbringing in detroit as a black male. Black males are the most destitute of all impovershed people in the US.

Mental toughness will not take his counterparts out of urban Detroit. I am glad however he is a success story.

Casper Deep inthe Heart ofTexas
05/26/17 5:25 pm

He is a great role model & I'm sure he cares about destitute black males. Destitute Black males have the same needs, challenges & opportunities as other destitute folks.

I hope he's allowed to help everybody without the race card getting in the way.

He's got a daunting task but I'm expecting great things.

toadder
05/26/17 9:42 pm

Hes extremely smart no question. If he doesnt succeed (and i hope he does) it would only be because they chose a medical doctor to lead the dept of housing

Casper Deep inthe Heart ofTexas
05/25/17 6:45 pm

I heard what he said live. It is misrepresented in this poll.

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nrdman
05/25/17 6:03 pm

No, knowledge and skill get you out of poverty.

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nrdman
05/25/17 6:03 pm

It can help, but isn't the whole thing

Kneske College Station, TX
05/25/17 6:57 pm

I've seen knowledgeable abc skillful people go into poverty

think4yourself Not a safe space
05/25/17 7:10 pm

That is part of the right mindset to set your mind on achieving knowledge and skill.

thebarr
05/25/17 5:31 pm

Absolutely.

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hemikid1993
05/25/17 5:30 pm

It worked for him.

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Casper Deep inthe Heart ofTexas
05/25/17 6:37 pm

I'll follow you.
You have demonstrated great wisdom.

think4yourself Not a safe space
05/25/17 5:22 pm

Yes and he is a prime example of that.

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BlueLine Georgia
05/25/17 5:05 pm

To a large extent yes absolutely. It's not in all cases but this logic can be applied to anything. Your state of mind is a huge driving force in where and how you go somewhere

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Wackacrat Harford County
05/25/17 5:00 pm

For everyone saying he is an idiot. You realize he is an example of what he is saying. If you asked him "How do you think you rose out of poverty?" He'd say this and not having the mindset of being a victim. You honestly think you know better?

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toadder
05/25/17 7:22 pm

Thats why sociologists study groups of people rather than individuals. Because there are exceptions in every case but as a whole urban african americans have been crippled by the decline of skilled labor, white flight and historical redlining.

Wackacrat Harford County
05/26/17 3:26 am

Got it. He's an exception, An anomaly and couldn't possibly know what he's talking about. He should just stick to slicing and dicing children brains that right wing idiot.

toadder
05/26/17 9:12 am

Easy...I'm simply saying you have to look at macro trends. Im sure he didnt mean state of mind is 'the' cure for poverty, but it helps others explain how poverty is individualized and that people need to bootstrap themselves into the american dream. Its much deeper than that.

Wackacrat Harford County
05/26/17 4:58 pm

I think it is that simple though. Dogs will hunt until they find food. Give them a bone and they'll want your bed too.

MissyJ
05/25/17 4:57 pm

It's not black and white. I do believe that mindset and determination are important to overcoming any obstacle. I have a hard time fully agreeing with the statement because seeing examples in your personal circle and/or having a mentor or someone that believes in you makes a big difference.

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Carolynn new jersey
05/25/17 4:34 pm

As someone who came from poverty and worked several minimum wage jobs, I agree with this statement. The state of mind is a large factor. Is it the only factor? Of course not. But I have been around plenty of poor people and many stay where they are because that's all they know and they don't believe they can do better. Their mindset seems to hold them back, sadly.

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Carolynn new jersey
05/25/17 4:38 pm

I'd like to add that IQ has a lot to do with coming out of poverty. I've seen firsthand people who work very hard trying to move up, but when they take on a management role they just can't do it. They try so hard, but they can't grasp the work or the responsibilities are not within their capacity. I've had to let go people that just weren't smart enough to learn the work.

toadder
05/25/17 7:23 pm

You think its IQ rather than education and training?

Carolynn new jersey
05/25/17 9:52 pm

Yes, based on my experience. I've trained some people for several months and they still weren't grasping the work.

scrpnHOG Arizona
05/25/17 4:26 pm

They're are a lot of great and obtainable careers out there. If your living off minimum wage then you're an idiot and lazy.

bobbyjindal3 Michigan
05/25/17 3:49 pm

Has gen Carson ever said anything smart? He said slaves were immigrants lol. Typical out of touch republican. Hey republicans keep an eye out on today's special election. If the democrat candidate wins or loses by less than 5% in Montana, that's a wake up sign.

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Suzan Hawaii
05/25/17 3:49 pm

Been Carson is a living example of how to do it and why

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TheSpookyGhost paleoconservative
05/25/17 3:44 pm

Absolutely. As human beings living in a free market economy in the world's richest nation, we are all responsible for our own circumstances. If you work hard and make the right life choices, no poverty is too deep to escape.

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toadder
05/25/17 7:26 pm

Not exactly. Historic systemic racism in housing and labor has caused decades of urban underclass to develop over time. The deck is always tilted towards the haves in a capitalist society.

TheSpookyGhost paleoconservative
05/25/17 9:00 pm

Of course the rich will be able to give their children an advantage. It rewards the parents for their contribution to society. However, even the poorest has the opportunity to rise through the classes in a capitalist society. In fact, most of America's billionaires weren't born into wealth and earned their way there.

4boot LaTrineodeur, MN
05/25/17 3:03 pm

Yes, unfortunately many of those in poverty lack the intelligence and/or motivation to do anything about their situation.

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Aeroworks Ohio
05/25/17 3:00 pm

False premise. Americans don't know what real poverty is. Driving a car, yapping iPhones with a personal wireless Internet connection and cable at home is not poverty. No matter how much "society " tells us it doesn't make it so.

The war on poverty has been won for a long time. They just keep changing the definition of "poverty".

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TheSpookyGhost paleoconservative
05/25/17 3:45 pm

Yup. Most Americans who are considered to be in poverty could be party of the Middle or Upper Class in some third world countries.

Aeroworks Ohio
05/25/17 4:12 pm

Don't even have to go that far down the poverty scale. Most inner city areas are living better than alot of Europeans

toadder
05/25/17 7:29 pm

Oh buddy. You have nevered been through a housing project in chicago. It looks like a boarded up third world country with women and children living there. As the most powerful nation in the world our standards of poverty better be higher than africa and eastern europe and they sure as hell should be higher than they are in our inner cities. Its absolutely criminal.

TheSpookyGhost paleoconservative
05/25/17 9:02 pm

It's criminal not to let those who have poor work ethic live a life of luxury? The poor have to suffer in order to have the motivation to improve their lot.

Zod Above Pugetropolis
05/25/17 2:50 pm

Seems like if it was that easy poverty already wouldn't be a thing. My bet is the percentage of our poor who have the mindset that being poor is awesome and who are just really into staying poor is pretty small.

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sweetnes34 Outta Phucks
05/25/17 2:22 pm

Recent study showed it takes 20 years with nothing going wrong for you to get out of poverty. If it was only a mindset & work ethic I'd be a millionaire by now

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mhillsman Oklahoma
05/25/17 2:42 pm

That sounds like a ridiculous study, and it also seems like you vastly overvalue yourself. If you were valuable enough to the free market to be a millionaire, you would be one.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/25/17 6:29 pm

Sweetness, if you have a link to that study, I'd love to read it, because I've seen many people that work hard but have setback after setback, including health problems and being laid off jobs through no fault of their own that have remained in poverty due to circumstances they can't control.

.

sweetnes34 Outta Phucks
05/25/17 6:49 pm

Hill you undervalue yourself. After working 30 years there's no reason to not expect to have been able to have assets valued at a million plus

JC I just read an article about it a little while ago. It shouldn't be so hard to find but I'll do it tomorrow for you.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/25/17 7:00 pm

Thanks, sweetness. I've commented under a few other people here, if you're interested in where I'm coming from on this topic, since we've been talking about insurance costs in another poll.

sweetnes34 Outta Phucks
05/26/17 12:42 pm

Ok. It's an MIT professor's theory here's the story about it. I'd love to get into some more discussions with you 😄
but I am doing math homework all weekend and don't have the energy for much else www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/04/economic-inequality/524610/

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/26/17 12:55 pm

Thanks for the link and for saying you'd love more convo! I totally understand and if you still want to talk about it after the weekend, tag me back into this convo or message me.

I have a busy weekend also, and don't know if I'll even get to the article by then, but if you tag me back in, I'll read it then and we can talk!

.

ProbablyEug Oakland
05/25/17 1:56 pm

That's right, you're not poor, you're long-term economically unmotivated! That might be true for some lazy recent grads I know, but a hard sell for the majority of folks below the poverty line.

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ProbablyEug Oakland
05/25/17 1:58 pm

I think the real work requires a focus on the psychology of long term poverty. Why keep fighting if you've accepted you can't win? If we hold up as a model the few that rise above, does that provide hope, or unreal expectations? Does it allow others to follow suit, or allow us to put off solutions while we wait for others to do it themselves?

PepsiMan A Liberal Of Boston
05/25/17 1:11 pm

By that logic, I can will myself to become the Pope

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SHIPPY1944 Tn.
05/25/17 1:59 pm

Would that include white pumps, fancy robe & a pointy hat ensemble ?

PepsiMan A Liberal Of Boston
05/25/17 2:47 pm

Well I'm already Roman Catholic and yes. Robes and all

hxjdkshg
05/25/17 1:09 pm

I was very young when me and my mom were in a bad situation. But, if I remember anything, it was that she wanted a better life and would do anything to get it. She is the most hard working and determined person I know and can not thank her enough for working as hard as she did to get my family in the position it is now, which isn't anything fancy, but were much better off than we were a few years ago.

TreeHugs Oregon
05/25/17 1:01 pm

The right mindset is definitely required to escape poverty, but certainly doesn't ensure that it will happen.

Poverty is an immense hurdle to overcome.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/25/17 6:31 pm

I LOVE your answer!