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ReligiousCommie May 24th, 2017 7:13pm

I've been looking more into Anarchism recently... what do you think?

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DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
05/24/17 2:30 pm

I used to be a fan, until I read about the split between anarchist Mikhail Bakunin and Karl Marx. Their primary disagreement in their philosophies about the origins of the state and class. Bakunin said that the state creates class, but Marx said that class creates the state. The state is little more than an apparatus for the suppression of one class by another. There are often other externalities, like racial oppression, but it's all rooted in class struggle. Frankly, Marx's view on this is so much more accurate. With a new understanding of what the state is, I no longer believe that a proletarian state is no longer an evil idea, as anarchists generally think. My personal preference in my interpretation of Marxism isn't really anything specific, although I am increasingly more a fan of democratic centralism, the foundation of Marxism Leninism, Marxism Leninism Maosim, Juche, etc. However more generally speaking, I support any attempt in establishing such a state by the proletariat.

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LaReine Communist Lesbian
05/24/17 3:48 pm

If you'd like a good read for a Marxist analysis of race in the US I recommend Settlers by J. Sakai.

You can find a free text online, readsettlers.org

Pretty sobering read for any American comrade (:

ozzy
05/24/17 1:46 pm

It doesn't exist

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ReligiousCommie No Longer Active
05/24/17 2:34 pm

Anarchism doesn't exist?

LaReine Communist Lesbian
05/24/17 1:39 pm

Check out Maoism and compare it, OP. He's a pretty straightforward and simple writer.

Something you might be interested in from MLM is how it addresses stopping brutal dictators from coming to power/hijacking post-revolution. Permant cultural revolution.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
05/24/17 2:33 pm

Yet MLM did fail to prevent dictators, because look at what happened to China after Mao died. Its horrible!

LaReine Communist Lesbian
05/24/17 3:24 pm

^ well it certainly isn't a dinner party.

Kamden popular revolt
05/24/17 3:38 pm

Oh I get it, because there's no food!

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
05/24/17 3:43 pm

The Chinese had food, except when the capitalists were in charge of the government.

ReligiousCommie No Longer Active
05/25/17 10:27 am

The horrific destruction of the Cultural Revolution, the primitivistic destruction of technology, the government-enforced famines etc.

myob
05/24/17 1:33 pm

I think you are young, in flux and, and normal.

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ComradeJames nationalism
05/24/17 1:18 pm

Interesting. I was an anarchist until about a month ago. I listed some of my problems with anarchism in the poll that I posted.

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LaReine Communist Lesbian
05/24/17 1:33 pm

Anarchism has contradictions - my favorite of which has to do with the phrase "authoritarian."

It rejects hierarchy and authority as they cause many of the ills within society. Yet left anarchism utilizes a vanguard for revolution. Both of which are contradictory to this analysis of society.

ComradeJames nationalism
05/24/17 1:39 pm

Anarchists oppose vanguardism.

LaReine Communist Lesbian
05/24/17 1:40 pm

Precisely the contradiction. They oppose it yet use a vanguard to enact revolution.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
05/24/17 2:32 pm

Anarchists in Spain didn't establish a vanguard. Arguably it's one of the reasons they lost. They worked sometimes with the Republic, however.

LaReine Communist Lesbian
05/24/17 3:21 pm

Anarchism is a vanguard movement by definition.

Unless one day literally everyone rejects bourgeois capitalism the revolution will happen by a vanguard.

MrAmerica Peaceful protestor
05/24/17 12:18 pm

Look into capitalism! πŸ˜ŽπŸ‡ΊπŸ‡Έ

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musicotic Michigan
05/24/17 12:19 pm

It's trash, that's already established

ReligiousCommie No Longer Active
05/24/17 12:19 pm

No thanks, I don't like enslavement or hierarchies.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
05/24/17 12:25 pm

Music, you must hate communism then.

Kamden popular revolt
05/24/17 12:26 pm

Try getting a job and blaming your problems on yourself instead of others.

musicotic Michigan
05/24/17 12:29 pm

Im actually in the process of selling myself into wage slavery :/

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
05/24/17 12:30 pm

I'm not sure that's how slavery works

musicotic Michigan
05/24/17 12:30 pm

Good job explaining how communism has hierarchies.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
05/24/17 12:32 pm

Communism = Administrators > workers

Name me one communist country where the leaders gave up their luxuries and became worker peasants

Kamden popular revolt
05/24/17 12:33 pm

Identifies as the "proletariat"

Still in the process of actually getting a job

musicotic Michigan
05/24/17 12:36 pm

Learn the definition of communism before coming in and mixing up Marxism-Leninism with Left Communism. Russia, Cuba, Vietnam, etc all suck.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
05/24/17 12:37 pm

That's ok. We were all communists at 15. Experience has a way of changing your thinking

Kamden popular revolt
05/24/17 12:37 pm

Coffee is totally right.

musicotic Michigan
05/24/17 12:37 pm

Discovering the evils of capitalism is not an age-bound activity.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
05/24/17 12:38 pm

...as long as you keep an open mind. If you don't, you may find yourself a middle-aged communist, and there's not much that's more embarrassing than that

musicotic Michigan
05/24/17 12:38 pm

And actually communism = NO ADMINISTRATORS. It's one of the core parts of it lol.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
05/24/17 12:38 pm

Capitalism is not perfect, but it's the best system I've seen

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
05/24/17 12:39 pm

"And actually communism = NO ADMINISTRATORS"

And which communist countries actually did that?

musicotic Michigan
05/24/17 12:39 pm

The most embarrassing thing is being a capitalist.

musicotic Michigan
05/24/17 12:40 pm

Which communist countries actually abolished the temporary state before foreign capitalist coups occurred?

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
05/24/17 12:40 pm

I feel a no true Scotsman fallacy incoming...

musicotic Michigan
05/24/17 12:41 pm

Which 'communist' states were actually led by communists rather than advocating for state capitalism.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
05/24/17 12:41 pm

So you're saying Russia was on its way to being a communist paradise but the capitalists ruined it?

musicotic Michigan
05/24/17 12:42 pm

Except that it isn't a NSF because you fail to look up the basic theories of Marxism

musicotic Michigan
05/24/17 12:42 pm

Corrupt leaders decided to make the temporary transition state permeant.

musicotic Michigan
05/24/17 12:42 pm

No, I'm saying that Russia didn't follow Marx's ideals correctly

musicotic Michigan
05/24/17 12:42 pm

*permenant

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
05/24/17 12:43 pm

So communist Russia ruined communism?

musicotic Michigan
05/24/17 12:44 pm

A basic reading of the Communist Manifesto would clearly see that communist is based on the abolishment of hierarchies, abolishing wage slavery, abolishing the state, etc.

musicotic Michigan
05/24/17 12:44 pm

No, corrupt state capitalists ruined Russia

musicotic Michigan
05/24/17 12:45 pm

Russia's path to communism started off as actual communism, but quickly took a wrong turn with the influence of corruption.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
05/24/17 12:48 pm

"Russia's path to communism started off as actual communism"

Which was actually terrifying for all involved (except Stalin). Why is it that the most fervent anti-communists are the ones who actually lived under communism? Have you read accounts from people who lived under Stalin?

musicotic Michigan
05/24/17 12:49 pm

Ya missed the 'quickly went wrong'. Stalin was NOT a communist

musicotic Michigan
05/24/17 12:49 pm

If he was, he would have abolished the state and adminstration.

Kamden popular revolt
05/24/17 12:50 pm

Coffee has entered the rabbit hole.
RIP.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
05/24/17 12:51 pm

I know...I'm now part of the circle ride

Communism is great because it says it's great and if it failed it wasn't real communism because that wasn't great and communism is great

musicotic Michigan
05/24/17 12:52 pm

Regardless, please PLEASE learn the distinction between Marxism-Leninism and Left Communism. Left Communism is in direct opposition to the 'communism' espoused in Russia.

musicotic Michigan
05/24/17 12:53 pm

Conflating Marxism-Leninism with Left Communism is like conflating Anarcho-Capitalism with Fascism

Kamden popular revolt
05/24/17 12:58 pm

Any real world examples of "Left Communism" being employed the "right way"?

musicotic Michigan
05/24/17 1:00 pm

There hasn't even been an attempt to implement Left Communism yet

Kamden popular revolt
05/24/17 1:00 pm

"Embarrassing to be an adult capitalist"
Ahh yes the CEO of the company I work for and who pays me is a total joke

Kamden popular revolt
05/24/17 1:06 pm

I remember being a Communist as the easiest way to get back at dad.
Can't stop me from smoking pot, Dad.

musicotic Michigan
05/24/17 1:07 pm

I happen to remember capitalism being a horrible evil that kills millions per year via easily preventable medical problems.

Kamden popular revolt
05/24/17 1:11 pm

Yeah those hospitals and all that technology would be better without evil capitalism.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
05/24/17 1:13 pm

Supporting communism is a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature. All communists (left communists included) assume you can create a system based on how they think humans SHOULD be and not how they actually are. That's why it keeps failing

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
05/24/17 1:13 pm

Me personally I'd rather kill myself than live under communism, but for sake of argument let's say you killed all the non-communists on earth and the only ones left were the true commies and they tried to create a system

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
05/24/17 1:14 pm

It would still fail because their human tendencies would still be there. Humans are not ants. They are not a hive of workers. They are not commies. Human nature and communism are oil and water

Kamden popular revolt
05/24/17 1:15 pm

As a side note I'm at a walk-in clinic for an ear infection (the wonders of the west to have such convenience)
And the lady just removed a huge fucking chunk of earwax and she seemed absolutely mortified.

Kamden popular revolt
05/24/17 1:16 pm

I mean ginormous. Feels a lot better though. She fucking hates me now though.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
05/24/17 1:18 pm

It's like if you were building a house. The communist would say "the problem with capitalism is all the shit. We won't have shit in our house". So they build a house with no plumbing. And guess what, everyone starts shitting on the floors, and they say "the capitalists shit on our floors! This isn't real communism because real communism doesn't have shit!"

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
05/24/17 1:19 pm

Meanwhile the capitalist builds a house with plumbing, because they understand humans are gonna shit, and we need to develop a system that handles that shit

LaReine Communist Lesbian
05/24/17 1:25 pm

>thinks having a job or not determines what class someone is in according to Marxist Theory

Lolk

Kamden popular revolt
05/24/17 1:50 pm

^therefore we were never talking about Real Communism this whole time

LaReine Communist Lesbian
05/24/17 1:56 pm

More like: whether or not you have a job does not determine if you're proletariat or bourgeoisie.

Marxism 101. Basic definitions and understanding of terms.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
05/24/17 4:08 pm

Musicotic, you're making arguments about Russia and whomever like I used to make. Keep reading, and keep your mind open. Just because they don't adhere to your interpretation of communism doesn't mean they aren't communists.

Communism is classless, and therefore stateless, society. The Bolshevik party sought to abolish class through a powerful state, beholden to the proletariat. You may disagree with their means to abolish class, but that doesn't mean they didn't desire the abolition of class. Stalin wasn't communist because he didn't abolish classes? One individual can't just abolish class. That's not how Marxist Leninist theory works. Marx and Engels said that the state would *wither away.* They never said it would wither away within the lifetime of a single head of state. As class begins to dwindle, the state will as well, because the state is nothing more than a form of class struggle. If there are no more classes to struggle, there is no more state.

musicotic Michigan
05/24/17 12:16 pm

Anarcho-communism is interesting, but I prefer Left Communism. Left-libertarianism in generally is the best.

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