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Show Of Hands May 23rd, 2017 9:04pm

Are fraternities generally more beneficial or detrimental to colleges and universities in the United States?

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lightsabr2 The Big Sky
06/05/17 1:50 pm

The ones at my college were garbage. On the rare occasion they did some kind of service, it didn't make up for their other actions, and many other organizations did more good without all the drunken idiocy. I don't even have a favorable opinion of "academic" or "professional" fraternities. They could name it something different and avoid the negative stigma if they are a different type of group.

wildcatfan1993 kentucky
05/27/17 6:46 pm

10 or 15 years ago I would say differently but anymore guys in fraternities generally have a higher gpa than they would if they weren't

benseth naturalist
05/25/17 10:14 pm

Most fraternities don't haze. It's being systematically pushed out of tradition. There are definitely more benefits, not only to the members but also the university. A good fraternity is akin to your local Shriners and the benefits they provide to the community.

mar45alex
05/24/17 6:56 pm

I went to a non fraternity/sorority school. (30k students) We DID have many clubs, groups, service organizations without the hazing, cliches, drinking, partying. I say they are not needed.

johngera Lakewood
05/24/17 6:30 pm

Let me tell you all a short story on why I think they are necessary.

I got a phone call late one night. My grandmother passed away. I was a train wreck cause I knew I had no way on earth of making that funeral. My family is close. I had no money to get to her funeral. My parents couldn't help because they paid for my airfare home the week prior. Take into mind I was in the fraternity for 6 months including pledging and a fraternity brother gave me his car for the trip. My fraternity brothers gave me money for gas. They got in contact with a brother less than a half hour away from the city the funeral was in, in a completely different state. Who then gave me a place to stay for free (I have never met or talked to this guy in my life). It was because of those fraternity brothers that made me proud to be a Greek. Because my grandma and I were close. I spent 2 months with her every summer since I can remember growing up. If it wasn't for my brothers, I wouldn't have made it there.

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mar45alex
05/24/17 6:54 pm

Sorry for your loss, but you don't need a fraternity for that-- they were being good friends.

johngera Lakewood
05/24/17 10:47 pm

That's the point. They were that good of friends for knowing them such a short time.

ProbablyEug Oakland
05/24/17 12:50 pm

It seems like if you're not in a frat and you go to college, you have no reason to see the frat as a benefit, but for those in the frat, I understand the benefit to be pretty great.

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smacc DunningKruger
05/24/17 1:00 pm

Agreed, I really don't know the answer but it was good for me.

benseth naturalist
05/25/17 10:06 pm

The word "frat" is generally considered to be derogatory.

smacc DunningKruger
05/25/17 11:44 pm

There was a saying: you wouldn't call your mother a moth etc.

croopertrooper Greater Cincinnati Area
05/24/17 11:22 am

Although some are absolute garbage, I'd say beneficial. My fraternity did multiple philanthropies every year, we did the polar bear plunge, we participated in city beautification efforts, participated in other philanthropies, held events for the whole school to participate, formed study groups, did resume and interview workshops, connected guys to alumni, helped get job connections, created scholarships, had etiquette dinners, etc.

So it was definitely beneficial to me, and 99% of the people I've interacted with from my fraternity felt the same way.

On the other hand, there are some chapters that are nothing but drinking clubs.

But I think it's ridiculous to take one example of a fraternity screwing up, and using it to paint the whole fraternity culture and all organizations in the same light. They're 18-23 year old guys, they're going to be stupid and make mistakes. But because they're part of a larger, already controversial, organization and culture, it gets blown up.


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Liberty 4,032,064
05/24/17 9:05 am

Extremely beneficial. Joining a fraternity was hands down the best thing I did in college.

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CAModerate California
05/24/17 7:14 am

There will always be small groups of idiots that tarnish groups like this. I am a proud alumni member of ΦΚΤ.

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SHIPPY1944 Tn.
05/24/17 5:22 am

Frats & Sororities➡️Great referrals for AA & NIDA !

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Praetorianus Fair enough.
05/23/17 10:31 pm

Wait... I just tried to read up on fraternities. Secret lodges? Religion? Initiation rites? Separation between men and women? This has NO place in modern academia, it's mystic elitarian bull. My extracurricular activity was relaxing, no need 4 that.

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Korosensei Maine
05/23/17 9:50 pm

My goddamn freshman year roommate was a frat guy and multiple times the floor was peed on by him and his friends because they were to fucking drunk to know where they were and then one of the fuckers peed on my goddamn food

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keamyx The Great state of Texas
05/23/17 9:30 pm

I was in a fraternity 40 years ago. It was a very good experience and would not have traded it for anything. It filled a social and organizational void when transitioning from being active in high school. Christian values and community service were part of its doctrine. You only hear the bad news.

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messiah
05/23/17 7:50 pm

How are they in any way beneficial?

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messiah
05/23/17 7:51 pm

If we are talking about social fraterneties

PeopleAreDumb Nursing School
05/23/17 9:06 pm

Maybe because they raise millions of dollars for philanthropies, do countless hours of community service for the surrounding community, and lead nearly all campus activities.

lj74
05/23/17 10:38 pm

Most have service oriented goals in the community

Praetorianus Fair enough.
05/23/17 10:41 pm

College is for studying which should be the only campus activity.

PeopleAreDumb Nursing School
05/23/17 11:29 pm

You and I both know that statement is simply untrue. College is so much more.

Praetorianus Fair enough.
05/23/17 11:51 pm

It is but shouldn't.
College football for example sounds like chess master boxing to me - pretty absurd.
Or take spring break - our future doctors, scientists, lawyers getting drunk? What nonsense! People complain about US students trailing other countries in academic achievements, maybe that's why.

pjpony Sacramento, CA
05/24/17 9:35 am

@praetorianus yes academics should come first in college, but college is also about becoming a well rounded individual. Fraternities and sororities offer so many opportunities for community service, leadership, and teamwork while also having a social aspect. Not to mention, most of these organizations have academic standards that their members must meet and often times members of Greek organizations have higher GPA's than the average for the school.

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Zfilakas Eleftheria i Thanatos
05/23/17 7:42 pm

Can't even pronounce the letters correctly.

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southerner
05/23/17 10:26 pm

My sister in law always hated when I would use the proper Greek pronunciation of the Greek letters used for fraternities and sororities. Greek was probably the hardest class that I took in college.

Zfilakas Eleftheria i Thanatos
05/23/17 10:28 pm

Well, growing up Greek, Greek classes were a little easier, although I'm still not fluent at all and don't ever really expect to be. I'm just trying to be humorous about the whole pronunciation thing, I don't expect many people to actually know how they are pronounced if you aren't familiar with the language lol.

Praetorianus Fair enough.
05/23/17 11:59 pm

I have a hunch even those who took Greek don't pronounce the letters correctly. They recognize them though.
A Pi is not a pie, it's a pee 🌝
Pi Phi Lambda isn't pie fie lamb-duh, it's pee fee lumbdah, hope you got that right.

cato Santa Barbara, California
05/23/17 7:41 pm

Frat boys are useless punks.

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SticksandStones Stop fearmongering
05/23/17 9:56 pm

Some definitely are.

SticksandStones Stop fearmongering
05/23/17 10:45 pm

Haha, were you in a frat by any chance? Because that's the only reason I could see for making such a biased statement. The fact that I know one useless punk who is in a frat completely destroys your all-encompassing statement.

Are all frat boys useless punks? No. Some are though and to believe otherwise is naive.

PeopleAreDumb Nursing School
05/23/17 11:34 pm

Okay. Sure. There's some useless punks in fraternities. Just like there's useless punks not in fraternities. All the useless punks on any given campus aren't all in fraternities. In fact, I'd argue that the "useless punk" population in the average fraternity is way lower than any university average "useless punk" population.

SticksandStones Stop fearmongering
05/23/17 11:34 pm

And what makes you say that? Because to me, it definitely seems like it's the opposite.

PeopleAreDumb Nursing School
05/25/17 1:26 am

Are you currently attending college or a university?

PeopleAreDumb Nursing School
05/25/17 1:40 am

Also, define what a "useless punk" is to you. Because the "useless punks" in my fraternity (along with all the others on campus) helped raise literal MILLIONS of dollars for a myriad of charitable organizations. And no, it wasn't because we called up our "privileged families" and asked them to donate. That took months of volunteer work. Along with that, we also lead all campus-wide activities. And if it isn't us directly leading the activity, I can guarantee you that 9 times out of 10, someone in a fraternity or sorority is at the helm of any particular operation. But, you're right, we're just a bunch of "useless punks".

SticksandStones Stop fearmongering
05/25/17 1:53 am

Wow, you sure are flipping out and taking this seriously. Calm down, first of all. Second of all, carefully reread my comments. I have been extra careful to be clear that I do not think all frat guys are "useless punks." I said some are. You even admitted it yourself. If I need to make it clearer to you that I don't think all of them are, then let me know. I'll put it in caps or something.

But then you started saying that there are less "useless punks" in fraternities than on the rest of campus. I wanted you to provide some evidence for your argument and threw in a snide comment about me thinking the opposite, since due to your lack of proof, that claim was as valid as yours.

Anyway to answer your questions, yes, I currently attend a university and I only used the phrase "ueseless punk" because it was used in the original comment. When I'm using the phrase, I mean the stereotypical frat guy.

PositumNuntiare Polling with Statistics
05/23/17 5:36 pm

That depends what type of fraternity you're talking about. If you are talking about social fraternities, then those probably do more harm than good (although it is hard to say because fraternities only make big news when something bad happens). On the other hand, service fraternities are good and benefit not only a university but also the area around the university.

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ZacDave
05/23/17 6:40 pm

Even social fraternities raise hundreds of thousands of dollars for charity and contribute countless hours to community service. But yea, you are right, they only do come to people's mind when one chapter does something horribly wrong.

bubba2526 New Jersey
05/23/17 5:15 pm

I never understood them it's just paying for your friends.

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Praetorianus Fair enough.
05/23/17 7:25 pm

Same.
I think you should study, attend class, get your degree and move on.

johngera Lakewood
05/23/17 7:35 pm

So I hope you do your homework because if you did you would have found out that on campus' around the world fraternities and sororities have higher than the all men and women's average and do more community service than the average Joe Schmoe while raising money for non profit organizations. Also you are more likely to graduate if you join a Greek organization.

Praetorianus Fair enough.
05/23/17 7:55 pm

I have no idea what they do.

PeopleAreDumb Nursing School
05/23/17 9:07 pm

We don't pay for our friends, we pay for activities we do together.

lj74
05/23/17 10:40 pm

Try and broaden your horizons and stop being so close minded

Praetorianus Fair enough.
05/23/17 10:43 pm

Maybe the Wikipedia article on fraternities wasn't the best place to start but it closed all my mental shutters firmly.

PeopleAreDumb Nursing School
05/23/17 11:35 pm

Because Wikipedia is ALWAYS a reliable source.

ZacDave
05/24/17 1:47 am

To the argument of "paying for your friends", you're telling me you do everything with your friends without spending a dime? No movies, food outings, road trips? Sounds like a pretty boring time imo

bubba2526 New Jersey
05/24/17 7:32 am

No we go out and stuff but I don't have to pay a membership fee to keep being friends with them. That's what I'm talking about. Frats are completely useless. No one I've ever met has ever said they joined because they do great things for the community or help lots of organizations. They all joined for the same reason. "This frat has the craziest parties dude!" That and they usually mention something about fucking drunk chicks. They're such innocent organizations though really they are (sarcasm). They only do the community service and stuff because if they didn't the school would shut them down.

ZacDave
05/24/17 12:34 pm

Ok, then go and spend a semester not spending any kind of money to hang out with your friends. Tell me how that goes. The simple fact of the matter is that to do anything in this world you require money. How is us paying membership dues any different from any other club or IM sports team that requires payment for you to hang out with your friends/people of similar interest to you?
And as for the idea that we only do community service to get the universities off our backs; first I know of plenty of other clubs and orgs that get just as loud and drunk as any chapter. Where is their philanthropy and community service? Secondly, what do you make of the case of Tom Babb, who brothers at UK created an entirely new philanthropy, in addition to the one they already held, to provide scholarships to quadriplegic students after Tom was paralyzed from the neck down in a freak accident? Or the chapter at UCSD that, after one of their members got cancer, created a philanthropy to pay for his chemo?

FarmerManE djent
05/23/17 5:15 pm

Huge detriment. Banish them now

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drew4417
05/23/17 6:07 pm

My national fraternity combined raised over one million for JDRF this past year, still a detriment?

johngera Lakewood
05/23/17 7:37 pm

Mine raised enough money to build two houses for the fisher house foundation so they can house families of wounded veterans while they recover and do physical therapy

DIT676 New York
05/24/17 5:34 pm

Mine single chapter had raised $50,000 to help the families of children with cancer... just this year

DIT676 New York
05/24/17 5:34 pm

My single*

Suzan Hawaii
05/23/17 5:12 pm

That is where they meet some of their future business contacts.

Jazzy5 USA
05/23/17 5:36 pm

My son was in one. They are still friends and get together. He did community service for kids in need. Some did work for seniors.
Not all are bad. They still had parties and fun.

bluerum29 optimistic idealist
05/23/17 4:59 pm

I see zero purpose in them, never had them at my schools

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Rationalis Classical Liberal
05/23/17 4:41 pm

Depends. Most are filled with a bunch of posers.

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rambo088 kansas
05/23/17 4:34 pm

Frat guys are usually douches

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PeopleAreDumb Nursing School
05/23/17 9:07 pm

I don't think my friends and I are douches. How many guys in fraternities do you know?

Dufur30 Oregonian
05/23/17 9:43 pm

People that stereotype are usually idiots

rambo088 kansas
05/24/17 4:37 am

Dufur stereotypes exist for a reason

rambo088 kansas
05/24/17 4:38 am

And i see them almost every day during the school year.

Dufur30 Oregonian
05/24/17 10:56 am

What's the reason? Tell me a stereotype that is accurate more than 50% of the time.

Douches are douches. I'm sure you pass many outstanding people but label them as a douche cause of letters on their shirt. But You have no clue who they are. Stereotypes are for the ignorant who can't comprehend complex reality. There are douche bags, but it's not a majority.

rambo088 kansas
05/24/17 10:57 am

No it's the majority. I'm not basing it on what they wear.

Sriracha
05/23/17 4:14 pm

Any organization is only as good as the people in it. Some are great because the guys in them are great. Some are filled with d-bags who all feed into each other's d-baggery.

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bnnt Los Angeles
05/23/17 4:05 pm

Business ones do well, the social ones not so much.
They're more of a distraction to the goal of college, which is learning, hopefully for a marketable trade.

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Acebeardman14 Tennessee
05/23/17 4:00 pm

I am in a fraternity. I have gotten $5000 from scholarships exclusively from my fraternity we also have done numerous hours of community service that places have recognized our campus for. We do have parties but they never get out of hand or bring shame to our university some fraternities do this but the majority do not.

devspi Liberal Republican
05/23/17 3:17 pm

They're pretty positive. They offer a sense of community and scholarship opportunities. The issue lies with the actions of some fraternities

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osouless Whats Next
05/23/17 3:05 pm

I guess it has to be taken on a case by case basis, but most frats on Syracuse's campus are simply fronts for drugs, sex, hazing, and douchebags to have something to falsely pride themselves on.

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SticksandStones Stop fearmongering
05/23/17 2:47 pm

Negative. From what I've seen on my campu, fraternities just haze, have parties, and offer an alternative place to live. And take up space.

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SticksandStones Stop fearmongering
05/23/17 3:07 pm

*campus

God, I hate typing on my iPad.

JackQHu Durham, NC
05/23/17 4:42 pm

I'm going to have to disagree here, mainly because data and objective facts were not presented. Just because that's what fraternities seem to do in your campus doesn't mean it's actually what happens nation wide.

SticksandStones Stop fearmongering
05/23/17 4:54 pm

Disagree with what? I wasn't making a broad generalization about all fraternities, I was just answering based on what I knew, and commenting about what I knew.

Also there really is no objective data that can be found for this sort of stuff anyway.

ZacDave
05/24/17 1:51 am

The amount raised for charitable organizations? Amount of community service done? Average GPA/graduation rate of fraternity members? Post graduation prospects/hiring salaries?

ZacDave
05/24/17 1:51 am

I could continue but I think you get the picture

SticksandStones Stop fearmongering
05/24/17 10:24 am

Do I? They better do some community service and raise money if they trash the quad their frats occupy every weekend, make their members do ridiculous, often illegal things just so they can be part of their little club, and spew out tons of stupid drunk people who cause trouble around campus.

Also can you provide evidence showing there is causation, or at least statistically significant correlation, between GPA, graduation rates, or any of that and being in a fraternity? I'd be genuinely interested to see that data.

ZacDave
05/24/17 12:26 pm

nicindy.org/press/fraternity-statistics/
As well as speaking from personal experience, Greeks place high value on academics. Not a single chapter at my school, ucsd, has an average GPA anywhere close to the all campus average.

Don't get me wrong, there are bad nuts out there that commit absolutely heinous things. But that honestly pales in comparaison with the good we do. Sure, you'll hear about the hazing and the drunkenness, but never about these other statistics simply because they are a lot less sensational

hitchens Ann Arbor, MI
05/23/17 2:39 pm

I'm in a fraternity and I see it as a positive part of campus life. Their purpose is basically just to organizing the social interactions that would normally happen: parties, networking, friendships, philanthropy; and then make them easier to occur. There's not a doubt in my mind that frat parties are more safe than house parties, because there are a set of safety rules that we have to follow in a frat house whereas house parties are completely unregulated. They get a lot of bad press for alcohol poisoning and hazing but those things happen all over campus, and you only hear about the times it happens at a frat.

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rons screw politicians
05/23/17 2:26 pm

What's their purpose other the housing a bunch of kids.

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johngera Lakewood
05/23/17 7:39 pm

It's a good place to turn kids into men since their GDI parents couldn't figure it out.

Dufur30 Oregonian
05/23/17 2:26 pm

They are positive. Of course there is the occasional news story, but not all frats drink, and have rules against alcohol during the work week. And most ban hazing. The are mini organizations which give members leadership opportunities and experience organizing events. They raise money for charities and philanthropies, while also performing community service and volunteer work.

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CutCopy Wedding
05/23/17 3:38 pm

At Harvard, most fraternities required hazing...

Zod Above Pugetropolis
05/23/17 2:21 pm

I don't see any possible way they could be a positive, and even though they are mostly benign, when they make the news, it is almost never good.

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Dufur30 Oregonian
05/23/17 2:27 pm

Nice copy and paste.

nrdman
05/23/17 2:28 pm

All the fraternities on my campus do a lot of charity work

steffffx13 Pennsylvania
05/23/17 4:40 pm

Because the news will only show the bad events that happen.. like every other thing they report

musicotic Michigan
05/23/17 2:05 pm

Nice repost ;)

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