Show of HandsShow of Hands

SpencerGraham May 17th, 2017 2:57am

Would you guys pray for my grandma? Her house got destroyed in the Elk City tornadoes in Oklahoma. Her name is Doneta. She is fine, thankfully wasn't home. Thanks guys!

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elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 2:09 pm

In case my comments below fail to communicate my belief in the power of prayer...

The entire situation & all affected are in my thoughts & prayers. In times like these, ppl come together in the most incredible ways. "God with skin on," doing whatever they can to work through the loss & meet the need.

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commonsense a real hero among us
05/18/17 12:53 pm

I can explain. It's coincidence. Nothing more. You see one good thing that has happened and not all the time wasted waiting and all the bad or mediocre things. It's called delusion or choosing and picking.

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shygal47 Florida east coast
05/17/17 9:10 am

Praying Gram is safe and well. It's sad to lose one's home, but so much sadder if one loses their life. Thank God for His blessings.

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Jazzy5 USA
05/17/17 6:21 am

A prayer was already answered, she survived. The rest can be replaced...

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theNobamist Silicon Valley
05/17/17 12:10 am

Prayers for Doneta and her neighbors, and all the pets.

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RNJen Bay Area USA
05/16/17 10:40 pm

Holy cow, that is crazy:( my prayers go to her safety and well being

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JulieB The Lake House
05/16/17 10:15 pm

Will say a prayer for her! ❤

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leilu SoCal
05/16/17 9:58 pm

So glad she's okay, prayers for her and her loss.

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Suzan Hawaii
05/16/17 9:48 pm

Absolutely

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orgblu10 Shamerica
05/16/17 9:46 pm

Praying for her.

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commonsense a real hero among us
05/16/17 8:45 pm

What would praying accomplish?

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SpencerGraham Defy the Culture
05/16/17 9:03 pm

Her heart is broken. She and her husband built that house in '81. He passed away 2 years ago. Just pray that her pain may be relieved.

commonsense a real hero among us
05/16/17 10:16 pm

And praying does what exactly?

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/16/17 11:08 pm

Commonsense, don't be an a$$. Why are you so threatened by a God you don't believe in that you have to denigrate everyone elses' faith?

Heavenly Father, I pray that you will be with Doneta. We know that she is in a lot of pain now, and needs your comforting arms surrounding her, lifting her up. I pray that you will provide her needs now that she has lost everything. Give her the peace that passes understanding. Thank you, Lord. In Jesus' name. Amen.

ishady 86451132020
05/17/17 1:55 am

She doesn't need prayers she needs money and material support. Saying you'll pray makes you feel better but accomplishes nothing to help her.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/17/17 1:56 am

God answers prayer.

commonsense a real hero among us
05/17/17 6:34 am

God answers prayers? Lol.
You get the same results praying to a jug of milk.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/17/17 2:01 pm

This is a poll by @SGPoliticality . I'm willing to answer by telling those that are disparaging prayer some of the answers to prayer that I've seen, but only if SGPoliticality wishes me to do so. I want to respect his wishes, in case he doesn't want this poll to turn into a debate, since it's a plea for prayer. SGPoliticality, please advise. Thanks so much!

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commonsense a real hero among us
05/17/17 2:49 pm

His poll is a debate. It's what this app is. You post, you are subject to debate. If he wanted his info private or "safe", he should not have posted.

All I'm doing is brining up the fact that prayer, does nothing. Even your religion says so. God does not interfere with our lives ,right?

SpencerGraham Defy the Culture
05/17/17 6:34 pm

Go ahead, 4JC! Shut him down!

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 8:55 am

Thanks, SGPoliticality! First of all, I don't consider this app one that is JUST for debate. I often post polls that are funny jokes, PSA's about things I think people need to be aware of, such as hazards to children, etc. I consider it a place where I can come and talk to my friends about various subjects and that we don't have to argue about every single thing. We can talk to people without being derogatory about what they believe. This is one of the disadvantages of the targeting option being broken. Often, people of faith would like to talk about what we believe without those that are derogatory toward us attacking our faith. But since we can't target just people of faith, and you INSIST on debate, here goes. Let's do it!

In the churches that I have been a member of, we have often had a testimony service, in which people who are led to do so by God stand up, one after another and talk about what God has done for them, and what His love means in their lives.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 8:56 am

Part 2.
To the following people, we've been challenged as to whether God answers prayer or not. See above for context. So let's have a good ole testimony meeting to testify as to how God has answered prayer!

I'd like to invite @tlaney1 @ronderman @political @GrandmaAlice @BamaGirl @Imanag @MrMilkDud @TopsQueen @Chickencookie @d0m333 @fireflly5 @Garrettr @xxxceo @cowtown2 @mac007 @doopy @glockman1 @gluxford1 @RussianThunder @NKarta @Mark3 @MrsCrayonWax @HenryJRoberts @Okie1967 @ConservativeCA @Lutheran @bluerum29 @orgblu10 @Jazzy5 @DSH @SugarShaq @Elianastar @cowbell @Icamino @doober72 @RunnerDude @Headstrong & @screenname1 : Please share how God has answered specific prayers in your life! If you know of other people of faith that I've missed, please forgive my overlooking them and feel free to tag them in also!

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 8:57 am

Part 3.
Before we get started, though, I'd like to address 4 issues. Ishady said that the lady who lost her house doesn't need prayers, she needs money and material support. You will see from my prayers that have been answered that even though one person can't offer material support, God often works through the prayers of that person to put it on someone else's heart to offer that support, someone that DOES have the resources to do so. So when I pray for this lady that lost her house, God will lay it on someone else's heart to send her the resources she needs, though I regret that I don't have those resources.

My praying is NOT to make me feel better, but to meet her needs. This is called intercessory prayer--when we intercede on the behalf of someone in need, no matter what that need is--God meets that need through others.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 8:58 am

Part 4.
Secondly--commonsense said that God doesn't interfere in our lives. I don't know where people that don't have faith have gotten this idea--this isn't the 1st time I've heard this here. But it is NOT true. You might be confusing free will with this. These are 2 totally different things. We have free will to either accept God & His will for our lives or to reject Him. But that doesn't mean he butts out of our lives, especially if we're a person of faith. He guides us every day, & the prayers of His people prompt Him to intercede on our behalf. He is VERY much a part of our lives!

Thirdly, I believe that God answers ALL prayers. But just like when we answer another person's question, our answer isn't always yes, I believe that God gives one of three answers--Yes, No, or Wait. So even if it looks like he's not answering, because we want Him to say yes, his answer of No or Wait is still an answer, because He sees the bigger picture and knows what is best for us!

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 8:59 am

Part 5.
Fourthly, I also want to point out that I don't believe in health and wealth gospel--that God is there for us to wave a wand and He HAS to do our bidding--to give us a mansion, a Cadillac, etc. While he does provide materially for many in need, He is still in control! Now, as to prayers in my life that have been answered:

The first one that always pops to mind is because God answered the prayer IMMEDIATELY, while in the midst of the prayer. Hubby had lost his job, and had no prospects for a new one. We were living out of state, and decided that we should move back to AL so we would have the support system of family and friends. Hubby and I traveled to AL, to try to find a house to rent for our family of 6.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 8:59 am

Part 6. Although we had a substantial several package and told landlords that we could pay them 6 months rent up front, cash money, we came home after a week with nowhere to live. We were going to be evicted from our home and we would soon be homeless.

When we got back to our home, out of state, our best friends, our four kids and we gathered in the den of our home, in a circle, held hands and went around the circle, each praying that God would supply a home for us in AL, that he would soften the heart of someone we had seen that week. In the middle of that prayer, the telephone rang. It was one of the landlords we had seen earlier in the week, calling to say that she had changed her mind, and we had a rental home if we still wanted it! If that's not an answer to prayer, I don't know what is!

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 9:01 am

Part 7. Many of the prayers that have been answered in our lives have been in dire financial times, as we're in ministry, & it's not been an easy life, financially. My FIL once said that he'd seen us eat our faith, meaning that God had supplied when we were running low on food & didn't know where the next meal was coming from!

At 1 point, we had an elec bill due, hubby was in college, couldn't find a job due to the bottom falling out of the steel industry in the B'ham area, & we had 2 toddlers, & no money for that bill. We'd been praying God would provide.

As hubby walked across campus, he heard someone calling his name. He turned around to see a student from the country of Jordan, running to catch up with him. This student told hubby that even though he didn't really know him, God had laid it on his heart to give him a check. When hubby brought it home & gave it to me, the check was in the EXACT amount of the electric bill, down to the penny!

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 9:02 am

Part 8
Another time, we had been having a rough patch in our marriage (all couples have them!), under stress due to bad health, low income, college and looking for a job, 2 toddlers, etc. We felt like we needed to get away from the kids to replenish our marriage, but just did not have the money to do so.

So we did what we always do--we prayed that God would provide the money if it was His will that we take this time to work on our marriage. I figured out exactly how much it would take to get away to a certain spot for a weekend. Not long after this, the secretary of the religion department at hubby's college called us up and told us that she had a check that someone had given us anonymously, and it was for the EXACT amount that I had figured we needed! We had a WONDERFUL getaway and came back refreshed and with a stronger marriage!

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 9:02 am

Part 9
Another time, hubby had lost his job, and we were struggling, but still praying for God's providence. God laid it on the hearts of so many people to help us that it got exciting to me, just to go to the mailbox every day, to find yet ANOTHER check from people, some of which we had never met!

At one point, one of our children was having severe, daily migraines, missing school, and the school system wouldn't cooperate by providing me a week's worth of work at a time, and even called us before the truancy board, even though I had doctor's excuses. I decided it would be easier to just homeschool than to have to go to the school every day to pick up his schoolwork and have to hassle with the school board.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 9:03 am

Part 10
So I prayed that if God wanted us to homeschool, he would send us the money to get started. Not long after that, a check for thousands of dollars came in the mail. Guess who it was from this time? The IRS! Seems like we had overpaid our taxes! God even provides in times of need through the IRS, people! Hallelujah! Lol Btw, we had never "accidentally overpaid" before or after that time!

Ok. That's enough of the financial ones. Let's move on to the protection of my children. I pray a good bit for their protection. The first incident was when the oldest two were toddlers. I all of a sudden had one of those moments that moms have that says, "The kids are too quiet. Go check on them." And like we all do sometimes, I thought, "Ok. I'm busy. I'll go check in a few minutes." But I felt God telling me, "Go NOW!"

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 9:03 am

Part 11. So I got up and raced into the other room, to find one toddler, chasing the other toddler down the hall with my sewing scissors in his hand! I was ALWAYS very careful about baby proofing my house, so I don't know how he got them, but I was certainly glad I listened to God's still small voice of protection!

When our 3rd was about 2-3 years old, he & his older brothers were playing on one of those merry go rounds at the park that you race around to get going fast and then hop on to ride. Somehow the youngest flipped up under the merry go round. It had steel girders up under it that would have killed our son if he raised his head. I screamed my hubby's name, he screamed our son's name, and told him to STAY DOWN!

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 9:04 am

Part 12. We had taught our kids to mind us the first time, immediately! There was no counting to 5, we expected immediate obedience. Our son listened to his dad and stayed perfectly still until we could get the merry go round stopped. I count this as God's protection because of my constant prayers for my kids' protection and in honoring our disciplinary methods, outlined in the Bible.

When our second oldest was a teen, he was driving our conversion van on a rainy day, on a curvy road. He fiddled with the radio, let the front tire get off the edge of the road, which was shallow and soft, overcorrected, did a 180 across both lanes of traffic and flipped the van. It started rolling down a ravine. When we got to the site, we saw that it was wedged PERFECTLY between two small trees, with another one at the side of the van, keeping it from continuing to roll down that steep ravine!

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 9:04 am

Part 13
Our son had closed his eyes when he knew he was no longer in control because he wears contacts. He didn't even know he was upside down until he opened his eyes. As he was hanging upside down, unbuckling his seatbelt, the thought went through his head, "This is gonna hurt!" He landed on his head, and the resulting headache was the only injury he had! I believe to this day that God was watching over him, and told his Guardian Angel, "Ok, if he's gonna wreck this van, let's help him put it right here!"

One day, I was finishing up my school bus route, heading home on the four lane that led to our home. While driving the bus, I felt God's Spirit speaking to me, telling me to pray for our oldest son, so I prayed for his safety. I then came upon stop and go traffic because of a horrific accident. I still couldn't see what was going on, so I was crying and praying as I drove, worried about that son. I passed the accident, relieved that my son wasn't involved in it.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 9:05 am

Part 14
As soon as I pulled into our driveway and parked the bus, our oldest came running up to the bus and told me that he had wrecked our car. He had hydroplaned not far from the house, and almost took out a road sign, but he and the teen passengers in the car were ok. The car was totaled, but we were thankful everyone was alright, without a scratch.

He had been headed toward me on that 4 lane, and it was only when the newspaper account came out that we sat down and figured out, from the time of the accident, that had my son not hydroplaned where he did, he would have been exactly at the site of the horrific accident when it took place. That head on collision was so bad that the guy who died in the king cab pickup was shoved to the back seat of the pickup!

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 9:08 am

Part 15. My son might very well have hit that pickup if God hadn't told me to pray for Him. Once again, I feel that this child's Guardian Angel protected him by slowing him down. Now, any time that I'm running late through no fault of my own, or traffic is backed up & I'm not where I'm supposed to be, I don't hassle over it. I ponder the fact that it might be God protecting me from an accident ahead!

There have been other times we felt God said No in answer to prayer, which led to a lot of heartache that we didn't understand. It's only when looking back years later that we began to realize that had God answered yes to those prayers, our children would've been in harm's way.

We've moved several times, which wasn't our desire, but God allowed those situations, some of which were calls to new churches when we were content & happy in the church we'd been pastoring. In at least 3 of these situations, there was a tornado or hurricane that hit those cities not long after we moved.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 9:09 am

Part 16. In one of the cases, it hit the high school that our child would have been in that day, and killed 8 of his classmates. Many of them were boys that were shielding girls from harm. I feel that our son would've been one of those doing that on that day if we had not been forced to move by a situation beyond our control.

There are many other answered prayers in our lives, but I want to give others a chance to testify! Lol

I would like to say that I didn't grow up in church, and only accepted Jesus as my personal Savior as a teen. But I don't know how I would've survived all the things I've been through, especially some of the heartaches, if it were not for His love for me!

Finally, THE END! Lol But not the end of God's answered prayers for me, as I expect them to continue throughout my life, Praise God!

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commonsense a real hero among us
05/18/17 9:13 am

So far I'm seeing coincidence, not your god answering prayers.

Please see my link on how praying to a jug of milk is the same as praying to god. You get the exact same results. Please watch the whole video.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 9:42 am

I don't believe in coincidence, and I'm not the only one. Watch any cop show and you'll see them say that! Lol

I'm not going to watch a video that is clearly from an atheist's point of view, which will increase their income, as many atheists use the money they earn to denigrate and fight against my beliefs. I'll be glad for you to explain it to me.

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orgblu10 Shamerica
05/18/17 9:51 am

@4JC - sorry, I only read the first few parts of your comments, and saw I was tagged, so I'll give you a few experiences. The skeptics can label them however they will, but I've lived them, so whatever...
One, after our first child, a daughter, was born we had two miscarriages, and didn't know if we'd be able to have any more kids. We desperately wanted a son. The pastor at our church took us aside at a church Halloween party, if all things, and prayed with us for a successful pregnancy. By January we were pregnant, and our son was born in September. He's 15 now. Two, I had a very painful, bizarre chronic health problem (tmi for SOH). A doctor had talked to me about a complicated operation to deal with it. I was having surgery for something unrelated, and before the operation, prayed and believed for this other problem to be healed by the time I came out. It happened just that way. All my doctor could say was, "Amazing."

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 9:55 am

Thanks, orgblu! I'm so excited for you on both accounts! That's amazing! I know there have been a lot of doctors that couldn't explain some of the miracles that have happened due to prayer!

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commonsense a real hero among us
05/18/17 9:57 am

If you will not watch the. Idea, I'm done.
There's no use continuing if you are blinded by your cult like obsession.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 9:59 am

That's fine with me. As I stated, this is NOT a debate to me. It's what I believe with all my heart and is NOT up for debate. Nothing you could EVER do or say would convince me otherwise.

orgblu10 Shamerica
05/18/17 10:00 am

Three, I also had a significant improvement in another chronic problem when a priest at church laid hands on me and prayed for healing. There have been other "smaller" answers like success in school and protection. I don't have a lot of patience in dealing with skeptics and unbelievers. I know what I've lived, and I also know that my words can't change anyone's mind. Only the Holy Spirit can do that.

orgblu10 Shamerica
05/18/17 10:01 am

My life is far from perfect, but I know it has been touched by God at times when I needed it most.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 10:06 am

Thanks, orgblu! And I agree wholeheartedly that it is the work of the Holy Spirit to change hearts and minds. But it's our job to speak up and not cower under those that would attack our faith, imho. I'm just defending the faith against those who INSIST on defaming it! And I REALLY look forward to reading about all the answered prayers! I think testifying about our faith and what God has done for us makes us stronger!

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MrsCrayonWax Katies Purpose
05/18/17 10:25 am

At the end of the day @commonsense what do you care if someone prays to a God you don't believe exists? Are they bothering you? I may hardly agree with Tom on anything anymore but I see you go into his prayer polls to cause a stir. Why? Who has personally aggrieved you? Just leave them alone. They aren't asking you to pray or forcing you to believe what they believe.

orgblu10 Shamerica
05/18/17 10:28 am

I agree. I won't shove it down anyone's throat, and I'm just a guy, not some spiritual giant. But to deny the grace of God at work would be a shortsighted mistake.

orgblu10 Shamerica
05/18/17 10:29 am

(that was for @4JC btw...)

commonsense a real hero among us
05/18/17 10:31 am

Enlightenment. Reality. Watch the link.
You'll understand.

MrsCrayonWax Katies Purpose
05/18/17 10:33 am

I get it. I get being both in a place of skepticism and a place of faith. They aren't bothering you. You won't change their minds. They won't change yours. Just leave them be to comfort each other in a way that works for them.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 10:42 am

I agree MCW, and orgblu!

What I don't understand is why our belief in a God they don't believe exists threatens them so that they have to attack. He either exists or He doesn't. I don't attack them for not believing, so why is it so important for them to attack us for believing? If they want to start an atheist poll and talk about how great it is to not believe in God, I would stay out of it and not go into it to attack their beliefs. SMH

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commonsense a real hero among us
05/18/17 10:48 am

I'm not attacking.
I'm educating.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 10:57 am

It's not educating if people do NOT want what you're trying to teach, commonsense.

What would you consider it to be if we started telling you that you're going straight to hell when you die? Would that be considered educating you?

I'm sick and tired of atheists that gripe about Christians that try to shove Christianity down their throats--but when there are Christians that don't do that to them--they attack their faith anyway. Do we not deserve the same tolerance of our beliefs that you want us to give you? Would you like us to start preaching to you?!

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commonsense a real hero among us
05/18/17 11:09 am

First off, it's what your religion has done for 1,000's of years. Murdering suppressing history, destroying cultures it didn't approve of.
Second, im only following SOH's motto.
Third, I don't care if you want to be taught.

If someone sees this and has been blindly following a cult or religion and changes their mind based off this? One less delusional person in the world.

MrsCrayonWax Katies Purpose
05/18/17 11:16 am

Knock it off. It takes a gutless turd to pop off to a bunch of people in a prayer poll for someone who just suffered a tragedy. You want to be the big internet tough guy?

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 11:17 am

So you'll be alright with me coming in your polls and preaching my religion if I should desire to do so, IF I believed that it would keep a delusional atheist from going to hell? Btw, I'm not the one with the tag line Delusional! Lol Btw, I thought you said you were done!

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 11:28 am

And of course, my last comment was meant for commonsense, not MCW!

orgblu10 Shamerica
05/18/17 11:29 am

It's interesting to remember that the apostle Paul was one of the most notorious persecutors of Christians of his era, until he very unexpectedly had a personal encounter with Jesus. Then he became the greatest missionary and apologist for God. I wonder who of the SOH atheist crowd might be the next modern day Paul. Kinda brings a smile to my face. Praying for you, @commonsense 😉

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 11:29 am

I have no intention of attempting to share with someone who has made it clear this is no "discussion," which means a sincere exchange of ideas. Which implies *both* sides are open to *other* ideas.

I am unbothered by those who in the same breath dogmatically declare "there is no G-d" while at the same time are clearly invested in curing those "too stupid to realize that 'fact'."

There is no intellectual profit in debating "that which does not exist" & I am regularly amused by the ardent arrogance of those who believe they have all knowledge who tilt at the windmills of demonstrating what cannot be demonstrated.

I cannot "prove" to them there IS a G-d. They cannot (*possibly*) "prove" to me there isn't. We lack access to the empirical evidence by virtue of our 3 dimensional frame of reference.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 11:39 am

It isn't that there is no proof to be demonstrated, it is our lack of capacity to perceive & demonstrate that proof within the confines of our limited dimensions. But since G-d is outside the dimensions of time-space-matter, HE has reached into our dimensions - on a one-to-one basis - and is persistently willing to identify Himself to those who are *willing* to know Him.

Since G-d values our freewill choices to accept or reject His existence & reality - and all He has *already* done on our behalf, available by simply receiving - I choose to follow His example.

If you don't *want* G-d, I have no intention of forcing His reality on you, by debate or otherwise. I *will* however pray the "hound of heaven" persistently pursue your heart in ways unavailable to me & soften where softness is require. Which is redundant becuz He has & will continue to do so regardless. I merely join with the mission by agreement.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 11:45 am

There are those who will reject the testimony of His Providence in my life. Out of hand. Because they are omniscient & far beyond us in every way, don't you know.

But I share, briefly, a few things for the benefit who have not turned their own hearts to stone. Those who are still willing to *consider* something beyond the shell of their own personal body. In case it will ease their way in some way, offer encouragement, bring light to dark places. For those so certain there "is no G-d," no harm, no foul.

commonsense a real hero among us
05/18/17 11:52 am

Ah, so you will believe that the Paul was visited by Jesus, but totally did out Joseph smiths encounter and revelations? Interesting.

MrsCrayonWax Katies Purpose
05/18/17 11:53 am

You're confusing two different religions.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 11:58 am

Great point, orgblu! We should be praying for all the atheists on SOH!

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 12:00 pm

VERY well said, elianastar!

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 12:01 pm

I agree with MCW.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 12:05 pm

I was told, at age 28 with a 2 yr old child, that I had terminal cancer. My father died suddenly when I was 4 & it was more devastating to me that she would grow up with no mother than the real possibility my end was near. "Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die." An oxymoron I came to terms with over the next year.

We did what could be done but nothing was moving in the right direction for a positive end regardless best efforts. I never *thought* I'd live past age 30 - a persistent sense from about age 8 - & by all that is logical, I shouldn't have survived to that point. (I've skipped over a *LOT*!)

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 12:06 pm

"You are going to die," said one Dr. at one point.

To which I replied, "so are you. The only difference is, I know how I'm probably going to die. You don't. Neither of us are promised tomorrow. You could be killed in a car accident on the way home from here today. I have no more power over that than you do over this.

See. I'm not expecting you to cure me. Never did. It isn't your call & not within your power. Any more than I could prevent a car accident on your way home today.

My fate isn't in your hands. Never was. Never will be. I will be cured *regardless* what happens cuz *this* ain't my home. I'm just passing through. My body will survive or not. Either way, I'm good."

commonsense a real hero among us
05/18/17 12:16 pm

Ah, so after years of medical treatment, yes thank god. Really? You don't see the jug of milk analogy?

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 12:27 pm

One night at home fellowship, someone asked if they could pray for me. I knew, somehow, that someone was going to say that to me that night. It was different than all the other times, though. *Someone* asked to pray for me almost every day, so I say that to indicate *this* time something was different. When *this* person asked, there was an illogical sense of expectation I'd experienced only one *other* time.

The same sense I had when a stranger asked to pray for me 11 years earlier. When I didn't know I had a tumor in my leg & "*electricity*" coursed through my body to the point my knees buckled beneath me the instant his hands touched my head.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 12:27 pm

A year later a tumor was removed that everyone - 6 different pathologists - said was an "inactive cancer tumor" which they couldn't explain. None of them. After each one saw it, it was passed to another because not one of them understood how *that* tumor was *not* malignant.

The surgeon that removed it was stunned when he finally got down to it. He'd expected to be near the surface, an easy extraction. Instead, it was buried down next to the bone & was wrapped almost completely around it.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 12:28 pm

I was denied food another 24 hours because it was fully expected they would be going back into surgery the next morning to sever my leg below the hip... based on what the surgeon saw that morning in the OR.

The only thing all 6 pathologists agreed about was that it was benign & no tests could confirm any live cancer cells.

The surgeon told me none of them could explain what they'd seen.

I didn't put the two things together at first. Long story when I did, but another "coincidence" set of circumstances.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 12:32 pm

What an amazing testimony, Star! I'm so glad He healed you!

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 12:40 pm

When on *this* occasion *this* person asked to pray for me, I got that same "prickly" sense up my spine I'd had the other time. *This* time was somehow different than all the other times ppl had asked to pray for me about *this*. This was "just a guy," no different than anyone else, just like the last time.

And the experience was nearly the same. The same "*electricity*" coursed through me & brought me to my knees.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 12:43 pm

I confess I wasn't prepared to hope for the same outcome again. This one was a bigger deal. Dr *already* knew there *was* cancer. Maybe the first time it *had* been benighted, really, all along. This was a "bigger problem" this time.

I'd love to portray a picture of utter faith & confidence but that just wasn't the case. I've always been too logical for my own good & this wasn't "logical."

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 12:44 pm

I said nothing to any of the Drs & was afraid to hope anything was any different. I didn't *feel* any different physically. There was no proof anything had changed. And I wasn't going to give anyone any reason to have any *expectations* of anything different.

Continued treatment but about a month later, Dr was concerned about something. Wouldn't be specific, just wanted to "run a few tests." That, in itself wasn't unusual. It was the *way* he said it & the look on his face. That *was* different.

Tests came back.

"We want to run some more tests."

Those came back.

"There are just a few more tests & we want to do a couple scans."

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 12:50 pm

Longer story shorter:

Basically the same result as before only there was LOTS of evidence it HAD been cancer this time.

Again. No one could explain what had happened. All the tumors were still there.

But. None of them tested positive for live cancer cells. NO test run could confirm any active cancer. Any. Where. At all.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 12:50 pm

"No one can explain it. All we know for *certain* is, there is no more evidence of any cancer growth. We don't why it stopped growing. No treatment you've had would do what we are now seeing. We can't explain it. We'll continue monitoring your condition because we cannot assume it *isn't* completely gone without time to observe it longer."

commonsense a real hero among us
05/18/17 12:54 pm

I can explain. It's coincidence. Nothing more. You see one good thing that has happened and not all the time wasted waiting and all the bad or mediocre things. It's called delusion or choosing and picking.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 12:58 pm

Two years later, they stopped monitoring me.

Yeah. It was probably all just "coincidence."
Instigated by *prayer* - both times.
I call that Providence.
Potato, potahto; tomato, tomahto.
Results the same.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 1:04 pm

That's an amazing testimony, Star! Thanks so much for sharing it!

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 1:09 pm

There are so many "coincidences" in my life - including the fact I lived long enough to have a child, that I *could* have any children - that it is *irrational* to call it all "coincidence."

I'm not crazy. I've been tested. 😉 I *should* be crazy, given my childhood. It would have been the reasonable outcome given all I was subjected to. But, like the cancer, multiple mental health professionals have deemed me saner than I have any right to be.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 1:09 pm

I also am not stupid. Been tested multiple times for that - often as part of the mental health testing. In a room of 100 "average" ppl, precious few would test higher. That intelligence has been credited for my survival & ability to cope with & overcome the atrocities to which I've been subjected as a child.

If believing in Someone greater than myself, Who has "interfered" in my life, by invitation of prayer, more times than I can continue to count, consistently & persistently redeeming *every* ugly, despicable, unfortunate event & circumstance over time, as I have turned them over to Him, choosing forgiveness over bitterness & resentment - without fail - makes me a moron, I gladly accept the pronouncement. I'm in *very* good company.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 1:12 pm

There are dozens & dozens & DOZENS of "impossible" stories I could tell. But the one I told has objective empirical science to support the facts.

The others are "easier" to reject as mere "wishful thinking."
I'll save us both that exercise in futility.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 1:13 pm

VERY well said, Star! I'm so sorry to hear you had a difficult childhood. Mine started in my teen years, and I'm SO thankful that I had already accepted Jesus as my personal Savior before those troubling times came. He kept me sane through that, and several years of circumstances that scored us off the top of the stress scale! Lol

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elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 2:00 pm

surprise surprise

"I can explain. It's coincidence. Nothing more. You see one good thing that has happened and not all the time wasted waiting and all the bad or mediocre things. It's called delusion or choosing and picking."

Where, exactly, did you get your medical degree(s)? You obtained access to *all* my relevant medical tests & protocols & treatments... how?

Please forgive me for rejecting your "diagnosis" with no facts, empirical evidence in hand or medical expertise... over a body of medical specialists specifically trained in the condition & treatment - at the time, WITH that evidence in hand &, you know, *actual* medical training & experience.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 2:00 pm

I am impressed by neither your prejudice, arrogance nor ignorance in the matter. And not remotely chagrined or disappointed that *nothing* I nor anyone else could possibly say weakens your faith in any way whatsoever.

Make no mistake. Atheism is as much an issue of faith as any other belief system. I don't have sufficient faith - or knowledge - to *not* believe everything comes from something else. I've studied too much science to not believe in an Intelligent Designer.

Every science course I've ever taken, every science book I've ever read (& I've read quite a few) leave me wondering how simple rational thought, following the facts & logic of what is *right* there, fails to convince that - at the *very* least - there are more questions than answers in science... especially biology & botany.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 2:01 pm

But many seem to pass right by the obvious inconsistencies & dogmatically denounce out of hand that which they cannot *possibly* have sufficient information to demonstrate as fact.

I have neither the energy nor interest to entertain anyone, on *any*thing, when they arrogantly fail to give rational credence to the fact one doesn't know what one *doesn't* know... and that failure makes it impossible to take them seriously in debate or discussion when additional information is dismissed as irrelevant or nonexistent.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 2:01 pm

It is not what one *does* know that defends Truth... it is in the body of what one has yet to know that alters facts in evidence. Like the courtroom scene at the end of the movie "A Time to Kill."

Everyone "sees" & "knows" one thing *until* you include additional facts previously unknown or not considered *possible*.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 2:02 pm

I congratulate you on your confidence in the face of no more empirical evidence that there is no G-d, no Intelligent Designer, than any person of spiritual faith can produce that there is. I don't have to convince you there is a G-d, anymore than I have to be convinced that you exist. He has already demonstrated in everything your senses take in, in your very existence.

It's okay if you don't believe in G-d.
He believes in you.
If you ever care to give Him a chance, you'll see that for yourself... no help from anyone else.

If not, that's your choice.
And He will honor that choice.
It is entirely in your hands, no one else. He's already done all that needs to be done, all that can be done, to make a bridge to you. You can continue to set fire to it or cross it. Entirely in your hands alone.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 2:03 pm

In the meantime, you've got a lot of ppl praying you'll one day choose to make a different decision. But only you can make that choice. Free will, my friend. Free will. Whether you ever acknowledge it or not.

If never before you can no longer say "no one ever told me." As said in Raiders of the Lost Ark, "Choose wisely."

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 2:09 pm

Again, all well thought out and said, Star! You go, girl! Lol

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 2:14 pm

Btw, Star, I studied evolution vs. creation extensively when homeschooling our kids, and I've ALWAYS thought it took MUCH more faith to believe we all came from some big accidental bang than a Creator! Lol

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 2:15 pm

Thanks for tagging me. Unlikely I'd have returned to this poll otherwise.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/18/17 2:17 pm

Oh. I *believe* in the "Big Bang"!

G-d said "BANG!" and creation followed 😆😂🤣

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 2:33 pm

You're welcome!

Funny! LOVE it!

ronderman North Carolina
05/18/17 6:42 pm

Well commonsense, my wife is in medicine. In many ways, she is a scientist. She works in fact, numbers, protocols, and truth. That said, she has hundreds of stories like what's been discussed above. You feel free to claim it coincidence. It won't bother any of us.

You also feel free to pray to your milk jug. We will all be fine with that as well.

commonsense a real hero among us
05/18/17 6:43 pm

Ha ha. Thanks roderman. I like your attitude.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/18/17 7:47 pm

LOVE it, Ron! Wish I'd thought of that! Lol

ishady 86451132020
05/19/17 9:17 am

Yes, the god that created or at least watched the tornado destroy the poor women's home will now influence people to help her. Yeah god!!

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/19/17 3:18 pm

Original sin, ishady, original sin--it's because of sin in the world--not God. He gave us a choice and we chose sin, against His wishes-but He still left it up to us. We just chose wrong.

ronderman North Carolina
05/19/17 3:25 pm

Also, we will never know the blessings that come out of this tragedy.

commonsense a real hero among us
05/19/17 3:25 pm

And the creation of cancer? Why do kids with cancer deserve that? Original sin? Really?

bluerum29 optimistic idealist
05/19/17 3:35 pm

It's a weather tragedy. They happen. One sad positive from major tragedies is population control

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/19/17 3:53 pm

Yes, commonsense, all tragedy, disease, etc. comes from original sin entering the world. God ALLOWED us to make this choice, but He does use our suffering.

Suffering is not an end in itself. The suffering that His children experience in this world is not ultimate. In fact, Paul says that “the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us” (Romans 8:18) and calls it“slight momentary affliction” (2 Corinthians 4:17). This is coming from a man who was shipwrecked, beaten, stoned, bitten by a viper, lashed, bound, imprisoned and eventually beheaded for the sake of the gospel.

More...
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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/19/17 3:53 pm

Part 2. Suffering, trials, tribulations, hardships, pain and persecution are not ultimate. They are tools in the hand of a wise, compassionate, sovereign and skillful surgeon. They are used by God to produce that of inestimable value in us: steadfastness (James 1:2-3), endurance, character, hope (Romans 5:3-4), holiness, righteousness (Hebrews 12:3-11), praise, glory and honor (1 Peter 1:6-7). God wants these things for us and thus ALLOWS that which brings them about.

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commonsense a real hero among us
05/19/17 3:55 pm

And the fact that god asked Noah to bring two of every animal on the ark? Then asked him to bring 7 of each animal? So which was it?

commonsense a real hero among us
05/19/17 4:00 pm

So god created cancer but we blame ourselves?

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/19/17 4:13 pm

Both, commonsense, but it wasn't 2 or 7, it was 2 or 7 PAIRS! Gen. 7:2:

"Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate"

NO, God didn't create cancer. All the bad things in the world are the result of sin entering the world. The Garden of Eden was perfect.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/19/17 4:15 pm

I'm sorry, I meant to say 1 or 7 pairs, 2 or 14 of each animal, depending on their cleanliness.

commonsense a real hero among us
05/19/17 4:18 pm

But god created everything in heaven and everything on earth.....good & bad.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/19/17 4:31 pm

Nope.....when He created it, EVERYTHING was perfect. Sin is what messed it up!

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/19/17 4:45 pm

Nope, there was NO SIN in the Garden of Eden. He allowed them to choose sin. They chose to disobey and sin entered by one man--Adam.

Romans 5:12: "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned."

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commonsense a real hero among us
05/19/17 4:53 pm

So god is too weak to forgive us if original sin?

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/19/17 5:29 pm

Nope, he provided for the forgiveness of sin by sending His Son to die on the cross for us.

Pretend that you are guilty of murdering someone because you were driving drunk. Someone steps up and says, "I'm going to take his punishment. Put me in jail instead." This is what Jesus did for us. BUT neither you going to jail, nor this sacrificial person going to jail for you negates the CONSEQUENCES of that crime. The kid you hit is still dead, his family still grieves him, etc.

Jesus died on the cross for ALL of our sins, for everyone throughout history. BUT that doesn't negate the consequences of those sins, which we see throughout history as death, disease, and tragedies.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/19/17 5:30 pm

You asked if God is too weak. No, he is too strong and too pure to accept us IN our sins. Thus, the need for Jesus' sacrificial death on the cross.

commonsense a real hero among us
05/19/17 6:27 pm

So you're okay with god setting you up for failure even though you didn't do anything wrong?

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/19/17 7:35 pm

God didn't set us up for failure. He gave Adam and Eve a choice and they failed. We ALWAYS have a choice whether to believe Him and obey Him. Even after giving man a choice, God made a way of redemption, because He doesn't want anyone to perish.

2 Peter 3:9: "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

And we've ALL done wrong, even those who won't admit it. In fact, that is the major part of becoming a Christian--realizing that you've sinned--and that only through Christ's sacrifice on the Cross can God accept you, because He demands purity.

More...

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/19/17 7:35 pm

Part 3. Romans 3:16: ""For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

Second Corinthians 5:21: "He who knew no sin became sin for us, that we may be made the righteousness of God through Him."

Romans 10:9-10: ""that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a
person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

Romans 10:13: "for Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved."



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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/19/17 7:36 pm

Part 2. Romans 5:8: "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Romans 3:9-10: "What then? Are we any better? Not at all. For we have already made the charge that Jews and Greeks alike are all under sin. As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one".

Romans 3:23-24: "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus."

Romans 6:23- ""For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

More....

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elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/19/17 7:59 pm

I challenge the idea they "failed." He knows the end from the beginning. Which isn't to say He set them up to fail but He is outside the dimensions of time-space-matter so all linear "time," as we experience time, is the same for Him.

He knew they *would* make the choices they did... which is why "from the beginning" He made Provision & Redemption for those choices & consequences, "in advance," from out perspective.

commonsense a real hero among us
05/19/17 8:02 pm

I agree. As the story is told, he knows all. He KNEW that putting a tree in the middle of eden would be a HUGE attraction to humans. And saying don't touch.....THAT one!

Even I know that if I told my kids that, that's the first one they would touch.

Not a smart god, or one that wants us to suffer......and here's the main word for today: needlessly.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
05/19/17 8:03 pm

I further reject the "bad/good" paradigm that because things are negative/painful/unpleasant/etc they are intrinsically "bad." Humans are very self-absorbed and tend to view all things from their own self-centered perspective.

Simply because from our limited vantage point we can "see no good" in or about something doesn't make it bad. I personally have experienced more "bad" than most & as time has passed & I've worked through those things, I've come to see the value & a purpose in them. Suffering is not "good" but there *is* good to be found because of it. If one bothers to look beyond their own comfort.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/19/17 8:16 pm

Part 2. Suffering, trials, tribulations, hardships, pain and persecution are not ultimate. They are tools in the hand of a wise, compassionate, sovereign and skillful surgeon. They are used by God to produce that of inestimable value in us: steadfastness (James 1:2-3), endurance, character, hope (Romans 5:3-4), holiness, righteousness (Hebrews 12:3-11), praise, glory and honor (1 Peter 1:6-7). God wants these things for us and thus ALLOWS that which brings them about.

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/19/17 8:16 pm

Star, I just meant they sinned, instead of obeying God. And I agree with all you say about suffering. In fact, I thought I made that clear earlier in this thread, but it's such a LONG thread you might have missed what I said. I'm copying/pasting it here. Do you agree with this:

Suffering is not an end in itself. The suffering that His children experience in this world is not ultimate. In fact, Paul says that “the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us” (Romans 8:18) and calls it“slight momentary affliction” (2 Corinthians 4:17). This is coming from a man who was shipwrecked, beaten, stoned, bitten by a viper, lashed, bound, imprisoned and eventually beheaded for the sake of the gospel.


More....

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4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/19/17 8:17 pm

Sorry, it posted those 2 out of order!

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/19/17 8:20 pm

Commonsense, I disagree. That was not the only tree. He gave the access to ALL the other trees, and told them that they only had to avoid one.

And my kids knew if I said they couldn't touch something, they had better NOT touch it, and they didn't. My kids weren't given to a count to 5 to obey, either. They were expected to IMMEDIATELY obey and it actually saved one of those kid's life when he obeyed immediately when he was 2-3 years old in a dangerous situation.

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commonsense a real hero among us
05/19/17 8:21 pm

Why suffer at all? Why let millions of children starve, drown, be raped, tortured, murdered? Why not stop it?

There is no reason these things should be happening if a god existed. And if one does exist, you are totally okay with that god not lifting a finder to help those kids, but it's okay to join in on tlaney's poll about praying for your new job or someone's house being torn down or omg I've lost my keys....?

Sounds like your god cares more for the afterlife , than for life.

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/19/17 9:03 pm

Commonsense, you're a broken record. I've given you answers from Scripture, which you apparently aren't reading. You didn't even comment that you were wrong about the number of animals on the ark (though I don't understand what that had to do with any of this to begin with).

Suffering is part of life--due to man's choice to sin. But God uses it in our lives to bring us closer to Him, to help make us empathetic towards others, etc. Elianastar and I BOTH answered this in just above. If you can't understand that, I'm sorry, but there is no use for you to continue if you either refuse to read our answers or don't understand them.

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commonsense a real hero among us
05/19/17 9:29 pm

Have you watched the video of the jug of milk?

4JC Christian Pastors Wife
05/19/17 9:49 pm

No, and I explained to you why. I'm not watching something that will donate money to atheists, who often use that money to fight against Christianity. I told you if you wanted to describe what is in the video, I'll read it.

I haven't given you any links to Christian sights for the same reason. I would assume you wouldn't want to go to them. So I've typed out all the info instead of sending you to sites with Bible verses, for example.

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ishady 86451132020
05/20/17 1:35 am

Original sin explains this absent landlord who is letting his creation go to shit?
Why make children suffer with cancer and worms that burrow in their eyes? I can appreciate you having trouble in your life with mental issues, most people do, but to completely surround yourself with a fantasy isn't solving your issues, it just makes them worse. The bible isn't proof of anything by the way. As bronze age goat herders didn't know anything about the world or the universe for that matter.

ishady 86451132020
05/20/17 1:49 am

The thing with imaginary constructs is you can spin it into anything you want. The dragon in my garage explanation.
Still doesn't make it real. Your brain found an answer to its troubles. You adopted a fantasy world that explains everything to you. Its not real. God isn't real.

commonsense a real hero among us
05/20/17 7:39 am

I agree ishady!
If god really wanted to help Moses and his people, one of the ten commandments would have been

6. Wash thou hands before you eat to remove the demons of the earth.
I'm pretty sure there's a verse that Jesus speaks about where he puts , washing your hands, down.

missmorganmarie ...
05/16/17 8:42 pm

I'm so sorry. praying. I am glad she is ok!

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gluxford1 Arizona
05/16/17 8:35 pm

I'll send some prayers their way. 🙏🏻

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doober72 Vidalia, Ga.
05/16/17 8:31 pm

I saw that on the weather channel, sorry man. Praise God she's ok.

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MrAmerica Neo Aristotelian
05/16/17 8:30 pm

I will pray for your grandma.

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imanag My heaven on Earth
05/16/17 8:16 pm

I'm glad she's okay. I'll be praying for your sweet grandma.

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ranger13 Texas
05/16/17 8:07 pm

Stay safe out there. Been watch all the tornado coverage all evening.

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ranger13 Texas
05/16/17 8:44 pm

I've been in Oklahoma a few years now. Always have to be weather aware in may.

Kimbobee the middle of nowhere
05/17/17 4:27 am

A tornado hit a mobile park pretty badly up here in Wisconsin too. 🙁