Show of Hands

Perfect.

Agree perfect example is black lives matters.

What is "white" heritage please?

The heritage of a white person, genius

Describe its specifics.

You know, things relating to their ancestry.

LoL and what exactly about that heritage is related to their skin color, genius?

What about a person's heritage is related to their skin color? Merriam Webster's definitive of heritage: "something possessed as a result of one's natural situation or birth". Isn't your skin color a result of your natural situation?

and again - what unifying heritage do white people have?
anything? Because I am pretty sure that skin tone is not heritage any more than eye color or shoe size are.

It's not up to me what people choose to feel proud about themselves for

You never asked about a unifying heritage, and I never said there was one

Why wouldn't people be proud to be tall?

Lol. Why would they? It's like being proud you have a mole on your forehead.

I have never met a tall person wanting to be short, but have met short people wishing they were taller. Especially in men, but women too.

Lol

Oh boo hoo.

Yup, that is what I said. Oh boohoo poor oppressed white people.

So white people have never been enslaved or put in concentration camps? Yeah, all the Jews I know are black. 😂 I can't believe you aren't trolling sometimes. No one can think the way you do and be serious.

Jews are Semitic.

Not to mention all the white women who are sex slaves all over the world. I've seen Russian/other Eastern European women in countries all over Asia and South America. There are always dudes watching them very carefully.

That's terrible but it's not persecution of white people.

Ummmm...did you hear about the Holocaust ? Or the millions of Irish that were killed in the late 1600's? Read a book.. Know your history.

That's actually exactly what it is.

When the American continent was first discovered, do you know who the first slaves were Irish.

Do you know how the balcks were brought here to America in the first place? They were SOLD to the whites by thier fellow BLACKS!

Jews are mostly white.
People from the balkans are mostly white.
The European population, which Hitler hurt was mostly white.

I rest my case

NONE of your examples occurred BECAUSE the people were White. Every single case had other political, social, or religious drivers.

Give it up, cupcakes.

Swervin, I do think. And I read. AND I know the difference between being targeted because you are white and being targeted because you are female, or Jewish, or Black.

You apparently cannot.

Citing examples where white people were targeted for reasons that had absolutely NOTHING to do with the color the of their skin does nothing to support your argument.

Lordsage - there is a very real and significant difference between slavery as practiced on the Africans and indentured servitude, which what the Irish were working under.

Look it up, learn it, understand it.

Pcisbs1 - I have a better idea, how about YOU learn some history (focusing on the differences between slavery and indentured servitude as practiced in the Americas) and also how to differentiate between a person being persecuted for being Jewish, who happens to be white, and person being persecuted because he or she is white.

Well, indentured servitude, which in some cases differed in slavery only by name, was suffered by many Irish, who, in the early 20th century were beaten and discriminated against for being irish.y Polish relatives were, in fact, put into consideration camps.

This may come as a shock.
The Irish and Poles... Are white.
These things have already happened.

Not to mention a few white people have been beaten in the last year For Being White, and, it was assumed, (because, I guess, all white people vote for Trump) that they were Trump supporters.
This later assumption was based on their race.

Cts, as I said before - those are not examples of white people being systematically oppressed, enslaved, etc because they were white. I am white. I am also a member of a group that historically was denied certain rights generally afforded to the dominant group. Historically I would be denied those rights NOT because I am white, but because of those other factors. My whiteness is irrelevant to the discrimination.

And examples that have occurred in the past year are not indicative of systematic racism. They really aren't. They are examples of prejudice, but prejudice is not systematic in its definition.

Seriously, did any of you go to school? Did they not teach critical thinking and the ability to separate relevant from irrelevant factors?

Look, all dogs bark, but not everything that barks is a dog. Sometimes it is sea lion; sometimes it is a scorpion or a gorilla.

Oppression and maltreatment happens to all peoples. The point is that never in U.S. history have whites been systematically or methodically discriminated against because of the color of their skin. THAT is the relevant issue. You can throw up every example you like of people who were discriminated against for a multitude of other reasons, who also happened to be white, but in each and every instance the color of their skin was not the deciding factor. It did not save them, but it did not condemn them either.

Facepalm here's a little story for you. My family was from Ireland. In the late 1600s they were captured and brought to the West Indies as slaves. While being enslaved, my female ancestors were forced and raped by their masters and to also mate with blacks to create a new race which was called Mulatto Once the mulatto babies were born, again more of my ancestors, they were sold at a higher price as SLAVES to the Brits & America. So don't give me your BS, I have first hand knowledge

No, you have secondhand knowledge. And it does not change that you are wrong in your application of that knowledge.

No these are FACTS how dare you question my ancestry? I just gave you a factual story and you still don't believe it. I'm done with your dumb ass.

This is why when conversations like these start I usually just stop responding becauase it will go nowhere.

@FacePalm.
Do you always try to invalidate the points others make by using personal insults?
I hadn't noticed that before.

Using critical thinking, your initial question is basically diversionary, or just pointless, one of the two.

Pride in race should not be dependent on a history of oppression or not, as everyone has race, and it factors into most people's identities. People should be able to be proud of their identities, as long as the identifying trait itself is not directly detrimental to others, which, having white skin isn't.

Granted, I don't feel race is something warranting of actual pride, since it's something more or less incidental, but a person's pride in who they are may still be important.

You would do well to review your history, and definitions. Race is not solely skin color, or there would be no difference between semetic and white. A white race, Slavs, were persecuted in Nazi Germany, and we're put into concentration camps. You'd do well not to dismiss history.

And your grasp of the history of Ireland is weak. Here is a little primer for you. Ireland was invaded and occupied by the British for 800 (ish) years beginning in the 12th century. The British despised the Irish, because they were Irish, not because they were white. The vast majority of Irish in the West Indies were indentured servants, technically. I am not saying there were no slaves, nor am I contesting your family history, which sound horrific. But those people were not there because of their skin color.

Again I'm done with you. Big-bye

CTS you are still NOT getting my point. You appear to be so married to the false narrative of "white" oppression that you are incapable of digging into the "whys". All of the groups listed, with the exception of whites, have suffered historically and systematically from discrimination, oppression, and death as a result of their common characteristic. Women were subjugated, Blacks were enslaved, Gays were killed, Asians of all ethnicities have been interred and discriminated against, because of who they were. Tell me: how have whites suffered historically because they are White? How has their WHITENESS been a source of pain brought upon them by others? Not how have Slavs suffered for being Slavic, or how the Rom suffered for being Roma, or how the Polish suffered because they were Jewish, or how women suffer because they are female.

I will wait.

The concept of "Pride" in all of those cases is a rejection of the historical, social, political narrative that they are somehow less-than or inferior to the dominant society.

I'm not married to the idea of white oppression.
I'm married to the idea that a person should be able to be proud of who they are regardless.
Read the post, please, before responding.

Again, race is not solely skin color.
Slavs were targeted as a race, that happened.
That's not the point, though.

The point is that oppression should not be a requirement for being proud of who you are.

As a result, I reject that... Definition of "pride" being rejection of history.
For one, pride as rejection of anything about cultural heritage seems, well, backwards.
If one should be proud of the achievements of others, which is almost as strange an idea, wouldn't it make more sense to be proud of accomplishments of others, rather than the suffering? It doesn't make sense to me.

I understand what you are saying, (and you are right, I spoke in haste, even knowing that was not your point. I apologize for that).

The idea of the pride stuff, is not a rejection of themselves but a rejection of allowing society to define them as unworthy. "I reject your rejection of me, I will not conform or comply. I am worthy and have a lot to offer. I will not hide." White America is rather domineering. It is becoming less so, but it still tries to contain people who are different: ok the food is good, but not the clothes. Ok the food and clothes are ok, but the slang has to go. Strong women are still called uppity. Stuff like that.

Yes, people should be able to celebrate their identity and heritage. Allowing members of marginalized groups to celebrate their uniqueness and affirm their worth in the form of "pride" does not diminish anyone. It is not a contest.

For the record I was not "trying to invalidate points", I was expressing frustration because none of the "points" were relevant. Everyone is focusing on the victim's skin color as if it mattered in the scenarios being presented. Skin color was secondary at best, if it was a factor at all in every one. Women are sold in the sex trade, some are white. But they are not sold because they are white, they are sold because they are women. People died in the holocaust, not because they were white although some were, but because they were Jewish, or dissenters, or Roma, or disabled, or gay. Pale skin exists across many cultures and nationalities and religions. Most people when they talk about "white pride" can't tell you what that means, unless it is to reiterate what is already taught in schools: white men and women did a lot of stuff historically. Sooo... what is the real point? Often to imply that whites are superior because "Hey look, WHITE". There is no real cultural identity there.

I think you err in categorizing "white America" in general.
Granted, my point of view is heavily clouded by my ideology that all persons have agency and individual autonomy, but white people, as a whole, do not determine American culture. They hold the most influence, as a majority race, but they don't group together in a cabal and decide what parts of other cultures we adapt. Cultural adaptation is gradual, reflexive, and the result of the actions of every member of the culture, regardless of race.

The notion of pride proposed, as a rejection of the rejection of society is not likely to have much effect other than to reinforce in the minds of those who embrace it that those persons are rejected, that they are victims. This allows them to reject their agency, relinquishing much of themselves to being the result of what others have done to them. I see this as unfortunate.

When I speak of "White America" I am referencing that influence, and cognizant that many different cultures contribute, but it is also true that the dominant cultures have been from Europe and, white.

To be honest, I lean towards agreeing with you that by emphasizing their differences they may indeed be setting the gap rather than bridging it. But the alternative may seem to be acquiescence, and the status quo is rarely palatable to a people who wish to have a voice.

That has actually all happened to white people. Try again.

Agreed

Same with your nationality? Based on your premise one cannot be proud to be American.
I may have done nothing to be an American except been born here. But I am darn proud to an be American.

I actually agree! All those categories fall under American Pride which should be promoted

No, those categories don't fall under American pride. They fall under multiculturalism, which divides America and Americans into Balkanized categories instead of uniting us as a nation.

They follow minority identity politics.

The Left claim a high moral ground because of an assumed obligation of the current white population to make amends for a white dominated culture that in the past has grievously suppressed other ethnicities.

Why should I default to pride being an American? I was just born here.

Perhaps you should visit a third world country and then get back to us.

Thailand is a very proud nationalistic country 🤔

Hogwash. Visiting a country other than US with conditions that I may find uncomfortable might make me relieved, but no reason to be "proud". That would just be stupid.

I am proud of my dogs when they sit on command
Proud of my kids when they learn new things
Proud of my community when it's keeps quality schools, roads, and services.
Proud of my state for remaining financially viable
Proud of my country for providing freedom and support to so many people and countries.
We are not perfect in any of these things. And much has been done that is unfair but there are none others that are better.