Show of HandsShow of Hands

rebelfury76 July 17th, 2013 7:24am

Does it make you feel good that you have to beg permission and pay bribes to other people in order to travel across lines drawn in the dirt by people 200 years ago after they slaughtered and displaced indigenous people?

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commonsense America isnt racist
07/17/13 8:19 pm

Why do you hate your government so much?

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pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/17/13 6:57 am

I voted 'this is wrong' because I disagree with the notion that we wholesale slaughtered indigenous folks. Sure, it happened in some cases, but most cases, it was during a battle rather than a surprise attack. We won, they lost, that's war.

NUwriter
07/17/13 11:52 am

So if you and I have a philosophical argument, and I shoot you, this proves my argument? Or if we have a dispute over who owns my car, does your shooting me make it rightfully yours?

NUwriter
07/17/13 11:53 am

As for the history, "we" didn't slaughter anyone. The US government most certainly did. Relations between private citizens and natives were generally peaceful - but not so when it comes to the government.

TomM
07/17/13 4:21 am

My uncle was a police officer in Europe, now retired. I asked him a few years ago, why people still need to bring a passport when traveling within EU. He said the revenue from issuing passports.

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rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/17/13 4:52 am

Of course that's why

kspells TheOtherOtherside
07/17/13 3:39 am

You can travel on common ground as much as you want & as far as you want. Operate a vehicle while doing it then you will need to show your the required papers showing your consent to abide by the rules, laws & any BS they make up because they can.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/17/13 4:53 am

And if I want to go north of the lines known as "Minnesota"?

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/17/13 6:59 am

Be prepared to be killed with kindness from what I hear. On the Canadian side, that is. Be prepared for A.N.L. questioning on the way back to our side.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/17/13 1:26 am

Yes. It does. It doesn't matter when, how, or why those lines were drawn, they exist for a reason. They are imperative to the integrity of the nation.

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Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/17/13 3:29 am

I'm sorry you don't understand it.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/17/13 3:38 am

A nation is defined by its borders, its people, and its laws. The borders define where the laws are in effect. Without clear boundaries, law is either impossible, or must be enforced universally.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/17/13 3:38 am

Furthermore, since all men are not good, we need a barrier to keep bad people out, just as your body needs skin to keep infections out, and your cells need a lipid bilayer to regulate their chemistry.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/17/13 3:39 am

In simplest terms a nation without borders does not actually exist. It is nebulous, undefined, and pretend, like electronic currency.

NUwriter
07/17/13 4:09 am

Rhode Island exists, and yet I can cross it's border without showing identification, or even slowing down.

NUwriter
07/17/13 4:10 am

As for the notion that we need a government barrier to keep out "bad people", this assumes that people in the government are "good", and at least less harmful than those they would seek to exclude. This is a fallacy.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/17/13 4:14 am

And no, my position neither assumes not demands the government be good before it keeps bad people out.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/17/13 4:15 am

Rhode Island has borders. The reason you can cross its borders without slowing is that we do not yet have a need to keep the residents of Rhode Island out of the rest of the union.

NUwriter
07/17/13 4:29 am

So if there were a "need" to keep the residents of Rhode Island out of the rest of the union, you would be in favor of that?

mattyla Binghamton, NY
07/17/13 4:34 am

Sometimes you guys just want to argue for the sake of arguing. Doopy made his statement and backed it up with an intelligent argument. Yet every time he says something you must question every part of it.

NUwriter
07/17/13 4:37 am

Mattyla, no, I'm arguing for the sake of liberty. He backed it up with an argument, that is, in my view very flawed. And there are issues where doopy is sound, and I don't "question every part of it" then.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/17/13 4:57 am

Matt, I argue for personal freedom, not an oppressive government that hurts peaceful people and controls what rights it deems necessary and acceptable.

mattyla Binghamton, NY
07/17/13 5:09 am

You seem to think unfavorably of so many aspects of our government and only seem to post regarding those. Are there any parts of US gov't you think highly of?

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/17/13 5:26 am

The federal government? No. I'd disband the entire thing today if it were up to me.

I can support the role of government at the state level and preferably county levels.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/17/13 6:07 am

If there's a need to keep people from Rhode Island out of the rest of the union, I support that. A plague quarantine, for example.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/17/13 7:06 am

@Doopy makes some good points to which I would add: Border enforcement is necessary to prevent/mitigate invasion by our enemies. If our borders were completely undefended, we would be sitting ducks for anyone who wished to enslave us.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/17/13 7:06 am

This is one of the few legitimate functions of the Federal government, in my opinion. That said, it sucks that a passport costs so much. I'd be in favor of lowering those costs.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/17/13 7:06 am

I'm not opposed to charging for visas though. It's a temporary use fee charged to foreigners who use our infrastructure.

NUwriter
07/17/13 8:46 am

Mattyla, there are no parts of government that I think highly of. They are a gang of violent thieves, writ large who do more harm than good across the board.

NUwriter
07/17/13 8:50 am

And pinky. "Sitting ducks for those who wish to enslave us". So maybe they'd take 40% of our income... Restrict our freedom of movement... Spy on us... Control where we can work, what we can eat, what drugs we can take...

NUwriter
07/17/13 8:51 am

And pinky, do you really think border control would stop an invasion? Sorry attacking army, you don't have a visa, you can't come in.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/17/13 8:53 am

And don't visitors pay sales taxes while here?

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/17/13 1:04 am

If you want to travel like a free person should be able to better ask your daddy for permission.

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szazula Temecula, CA
07/17/13 12:27 am

Bothers me more in the sense that in the scramble for Africa, the Mideast and other places, groups of people, tribes, and families were divided right down the middle. Some had to fight world wars against one another for the good of the colonizer.

satiricalnick meh
07/17/13 12:27 am

Like national boundries?

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satiricalnick meh
07/17/13 12:28 am

Yeah, you kinda puzzled me with this one reb.

PuppyLvr In love with Listgarten
07/17/13 1:07 am

As in illegal immigration issues or just for vacations?

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/17/13 3:25 am

As in as a free person you should be able to travel freely and not just people born within these lines of dirt should have those rights and privileges while denying them to those not lucky enough to come from a womb on the right real estate.

PuppyLvr In love with Listgarten
07/17/13 9:24 am

I completely agree that free people without major criminal charges should be able to travel freely. I think there should be some sort of process for immigration though.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/17/13 9:27 am

Should it be harder than what your ancestors had to deal with?

NUwriter
07/17/13 11:56 am

Puppy, there is a process for immigration. You get on a boat, car, train, plane, and move. If there are better opportunities for you in the new place, you should stay. If not, you should move on. But that is a market process, not a government one.

TomM
07/17/13 4:17 am

Borders and passport/visa

MrEdwin Mystery
07/17/13 12:26 am

Those damn Spaniards killing off my ancestors...

Oh you were talking about Native Americans :P