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pinkyusuck July 16th, 2013 5:49am

The first thing that comes to my mind when I hear someone use the term 'white privilege' is, 'What a dumb sh*t!' You?

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goalie31 OrthodoxCatholicChristian
07/16/13 6:54 pm

try getting into college as a white male. can you say "DENIED!". Whites have the short end these days

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think4yourself Not a safe space
07/16/13 6:09 pm

How is being a white male privileged when everyone blames you for their problems? They even blame you for problems that existed before you were born.

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MadCow True GOP
07/16/13 11:28 am

Why are the same four persecuted white people the only ones posting here?

PinkysWifey Wisconsin
07/16/13 5:27 am

I think whites (particularly white males) have to work double hard to get a fair chance in our country because they get no help and everyone wants them to apologize for living their whole life because they are a white male.

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PinkysWifey Wisconsin
07/16/13 5:23 am

I don't see "whites" having affirmative action for jobs, college scholarships just for being white...heck my broke white family never even got one penny in financial aid for college.

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DavesNotHere where am I
07/16/13 5:18 am

What privilege? I don't get any handouts. And I'm not eligible for advancement where I work because I'm not a minority.

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pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 4:37 am

The fact is, the concept of 'white privilege' is a shameful attempt to separate you from your money. It is the same thing, in principle as Marx's idea of taking from those who have and giving to those who have not.

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pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 4:37 am

America is supposed to be the land of equal opportunity, not equal results. And quite frankly, minorities have far more opportunity (if they look for it) than white folks.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 4:38 am

If you doubt that, apply to college. Unless you're a complete dumbass, if you're a minority, you stand very little chance of being rejected by a college.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 4:39 am

We don't achieve equal opportunity by lifting minorities above the majority. We achieve it by offering the same entrance standards and financial opportunities to all, and requiring all to meet the same academic standard.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 4:39 am

You also have a very good chance of having large chunks of your tuition, and possibly room and board, paid for by grants and scholarships.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 4:39 am

Equal opportunity, not equal results.

Octopus
07/16/13 5:35 am

I don't disagree with you on any of that aside from the fact that "white privilege" isn't about placing blame, just being aware. I am defending it in the societal sense without any attached political statement.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 5:42 am

'White privilege' is absolutely about placing blame! It's about making the majority feel guilty for the societal status of some other sub-group of society, when the majority have no fault for the situation that sub-group finds themselves in.

Octopus
07/16/13 5:45 am

Exactly -- the majority isn't at fault, like you said. It isn't about shaming you or trying to make you feel guilty. I understand how it can sound that way, but that absolutely isn't the goal of the term. Awareness, not guilt.

Octopus
07/16/13 5:48 am

When you recognize the things you often take for granted, it makes your own life more valuable AND allows you to sympathize with others and treat them accordingly to make their lives better as well. That is the goal, not guilt.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 6:00 am

Bullshit! That may be how you see it, and that's fine. But I guarantee that not how most folks using the term mean it. Almost every time I hear it used, it's being invoked as justification or absolution of wrongdoing for minorities.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 6:00 am

Either we want a fair, honest society, or we don't. You can't hold the majority responsible for a given activity, and then give a member of a minority a pass for doing the same activity simply because they fit into a certain sub-group of society.

Octopus
07/16/13 6:05 am

You're right, that is how most people use the term. But that's not how it's defined in academia and research, which is why I'm so intently trying to clear that up right now. Whenever people use the term in that sense, to place blame on one group and

Octopus
07/16/13 6:06 am

let another get away with something, they are technically wrong. That's an incorrect use of the term. That's a reason why I dislike the wording of the term itself -- it has negative connotations and causes arguments that are largely irrelevant.

Octopus
07/16/13 6:08 am

I'm not advocating the way you defined it at all. I don't think anyone should be blamed or to have an excuse based on race. In that sense, that's divisive and actually ignoring any real problems rather than being aware, open and communicative.

Octopus
07/16/13 6:09 am

Just to clear that up. Want to make sure my point comes across the way I mean it, at least. :-)

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 6:09 am

So, if you agree that the terminology is faulty, and counter-productive, then quit using it. Academic definitions matter very little when compared with popular understanding of a given term or idea.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 6:10 am

You can use all the academia you want, but it won't help if the popular definition is something different.

Octopus
07/16/13 6:16 am

The terminology is only faulty because of how quickly people become defensive over it and thereby misinterpret the true ideology based on their assumptions. The term shouldn't cause that big of a fuss, but somehow it does. And I agree.

Octopus
07/16/13 6:18 am

I wouldn't know what to use instead to effectively portray a huge idea with only a couple words, but I'll be thinking about it. If we come up with a better way to express ideas, conversation will be much more efficient. :-)

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 6:47 am

'Equality of opportunity, and equality of expectations, regardless of background or upbringing.'
A little longer, sure. But it sums up what each American has from birth. Any American can become great if they choose to make it so.

gwabby am i solids or stripes
07/15/13 10:53 pm

It's time to stop blaming ancestors, no matter what race. YOU are the only one who change your outcome. If I could underline "change", I would.

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Octopus
07/15/13 10:59 pm

The entire concept of white privilege isn't based around blame at all, but awareness of social constructs. Blame should actually be avoided, like you said.

gwabby am i solids or stripes
07/15/13 11:02 pm

Ok, I think I read into it too much. My apologies. I was thinking white privilege as something you were born into, as passed down from ancestors.

goalie31 OrthodoxCatholicChristian
07/15/13 10:52 pm

well saying white privilege is racist... and not true... if anything other races have advantages

Octopus
07/15/13 10:57 pm

That's false though. The academic definition of racism has power attributed to it. Any individual can be racist (obviously), but for it to be systematic there must be power.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 4:45 am

The first step to overcoming racism is to 'call a spade, a spade.'

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 4:45 am

That definition is intended to prevent you from realizing that racism can be by anyone against anyone. The fact is, any prejudicial attitude or action against another based solely on race IS racism. Simple as that.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 4:45 am

@Octo, Racism is discriminating against another because of their race. Despite what you may have learned in the government indoctrination centers, there is no prerequisite of any 'power' being attached to the discrimination.

Octopus
07/16/13 5:30 am

I know anyone can be prejudiced based on race as an individual; I said that above. My point is that "white privilege" is focused on a systematic issue, not an individual one. Hence why I said what I did. The term isn't "racist".

Octopus
07/16/13 5:32 am

Systematic racism, or racism that occurs from a position of power, has a much greater effect on those it targets -- as does anything else with power backing it. That's logic.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 5:37 am

Or the Department of 'Justice' declining to prosecute crimes by minorities that it would almost certainly prosecute if the perpetrator was white, and the victim a minority?

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 5:37 am

You say it's 'systematic.' Do you mean the system that prefers minorities in hiring? Or in college financing breaks?

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 5:38 am

The only systematic racism is the government's habit of writing policy in such a way as to grant special privilege and opportunities to minorities.

Octopus
07/16/13 5:38 am

No. Like I said above, I wasn't trying to discuss it in the political/economical sense here. I mean systematic in the sense that many ways of thinking are ingrained into our culture/society, we don't even realize it, and we behave accordingly.

Octopus
07/16/13 5:41 am

Regardless of government, just focusing on society. Ex: If you're white, you get fewer judgments from strangers. You're not viewed as the odd one out. People don't give you suspicious looks on the street at night, or trust you less during a...

Octopus
07/16/13 5:41 am

shopping trip, touring a new residential community, etc. Obviously everyone is judged, but life can be a lot different depending on the position you're in. What I have learned from "white privilege" is that no one is to blame, but just to be aware...

Octopus
07/16/13 5:42 am

of all the aspects of community we take for granted and how we are treated and viewed by other people, when some don't always have that so easy.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 5:53 am

Because there are enough people of a given appearance, association, or ideology, doing a certain type of activity over an extended period of time.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 5:53 am

What you're talking about are stereotypes. Answer me this: Why do stereotypes exist?

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 5:54 am

Does that mean that everyone in that particular group engages in that particular activity? No, of course not. But it's absolutely foolish to ignore the possibility until you can verify that it's not the case.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 5:55 am

No, it's just common sense. Does that mean that every white guy is gonna try to junk-punch me? No, of course not. But there are enough of them trying to do it that it gives all the rest of them a bad name, and makes them suspicious in my mind.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 5:55 am

Let's say that most of the white guys that I've ever met try to punch me in the junk. Is it foolish for me to start wearing a nutcup anytime I'm around white guys?

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 5:55 am

It would be foolish to leave myself open to nut pain simply because I didn't want to appear wary of white-guy-junk-punchers.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 5:55 am

Frick. Those posted out of order for some reason. I'm sure you'll figure it out.

Octopus
07/16/13 5:57 am

Stereotypes are a part of what I am talking about, yes. Being white generally means facing fewer stereotypes that actually alter your life and target who you are. And obviously not every individual in a group is exactly the same, I think that is a...

Octopus
07/16/13 6:00 am

given in all theories and arguments. I'm just talking about social aspects that can and DO affect a person's life, and that varies widely based on the position you are in. I have witnessed it myself. No one is asking you to change your behavior or...

Octopus
07/16/13 6:02 am

feel guilty or anything of the sort. At least I hope they're not, because that would be wrong. The key point is to keep an open mind about how other people may experience things differently from you do. I got a little lost with some of those...

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 6:02 am

People who do stupid shit are the ones who get stereotyped.
Young males tend to get hurt doing idiotic things. Does that mean every young male is a daredevil? Not. But the stereotype is accurate AND well-deserved.

Octopus
07/16/13 6:03 am

comments, but I think our biggest difference is definition -- what we learned the term is supposed to mean. I'm not advocating for more handouts, skewed college admissions, or anything on that level. Just an open view toward life & others.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 6:04 am

And as such, young males get charged higher insurance premiums. Does it suck? Yes. Is it discriminatory? Yes. But it's not going away anytime soon because young males are still getting hurt doing stupid shit.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 6:07 am

Then advocate for equality of opportunity and expectations, instead of some bullshit, guilt-trip idea that is usually invoked to cover for some idiot doing something stupid.

Octopus
07/16/13 6:11 am

I do. I fully do. Which is what the accurate definition of the term advocates, despite the fact that the masses misuse it and have caused you to define it as such.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 6:49 am

So then drop 'white privilege' like a bad habit, and start advocating for 'Equality of opportunity, and equality of expectations, regardless of background or upbringing.'
It more accurately portrays your intent, and is less open to misinterpretation.

Octopus
07/16/13 6:55 am

That still doesn't get the full point across. It leaves out the acknowledgment of existing social constructs, and only talks about what we should aspire toward in the future. But to grow, we have to be aware of current problems and change them.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 6:57 am

Alright, fine, I'll bite. You keep talking about 'social constructs.' Spell it out for us.

Octopus
07/16/13 7:16 am

You say you advocate for equality of opportunity, etc. The fact that you say that & we discuss this means that doesn't already exist and that it's an issue, caused by social constructs that are inherent in human communities but need to be overcome.

Octopus
07/16/13 7:17 am

Social constructs are essentially the viewpoints held by a majority that become so ingrained into our everyday life that we barely notice them anymore, and they affect the things we do. And it's not just racial, but in every aspect of life.

Octopus
07/16/13 7:19 am

I don't have time to discuss this anymore in depth or often because I have to tour some apartments today, but I'm sure you'd be interested if you read into it. Just social/community function stuff. :-)

Octopus
07/16/13 7:29 am

Most prejudice arises from the fact that we've created and then grown to accept certain things as truths, for example gender identity -- what's "manly" and what isn't, pink versus blue. But it really isn't that black and white or even correct.

Octopus
07/16/13 7:30 am

And such views that we adopt affect how we interpret other people and our interactions with them, and sometimes it's things so accepted as "normal" that we can't fathom an alternative. That's just an example. But it's been great talking to you. :-)

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/16/13 7:45 am

You still didn't answer the question relative to this subject. What are the social constructs that you're referring to in regards to the concept of 'white privilege'?