The first thing that comes to my mind when I hear someone use the term 'white privilege' is, 'What a dumb sh*t!' You?
try getting into college as a white male. can you say "DENIED!". Whites have the short end these days
How is being a white male privileged when everyone blames you for their problems? They even blame you for problems that existed before you were born.
Why are the same four persecuted white people the only ones posting here?
I think whites (particularly white males) have to work double hard to get a fair chance in our country because they get no help and everyone wants them to apologize for living their whole life because they are a white male.
I don't see "whites" having affirmative action for jobs, college scholarships just for being white...heck my broke white family never even got one penny in financial aid for college.
What privilege? I don't get any handouts. And I'm not eligible for advancement where I work because I'm not a minority.
The fact is, the concept of 'white privilege' is a shameful attempt to separate you from your money. It is the same thing, in principle as Marx's idea of taking from those who have and giving to those who have not.
America is supposed to be the land of equal opportunity, not equal results. And quite frankly, minorities have far more opportunity (if they look for it) than white folks.
If you doubt that, apply to college. Unless you're a complete dumbass, if you're a minority, you stand very little chance of being rejected by a college.
We don't achieve equal opportunity by lifting minorities above the majority. We achieve it by offering the same entrance standards and financial opportunities to all, and requiring all to meet the same academic standard.
You also have a very good chance of having large chunks of your tuition, and possibly room and board, paid for by grants and scholarships.
Equal opportunity, not equal results.
I don't disagree with you on any of that aside from the fact that "white privilege" isn't about placing blame, just being aware. I am defending it in the societal sense without any attached political statement.
'White privilege' is absolutely about placing blame! It's about making the majority feel guilty for the societal status of some other sub-group of society, when the majority have no fault for the situation that sub-group finds themselves in.
Exactly -- the majority isn't at fault, like you said. It isn't about shaming you or trying to make you feel guilty. I understand how it can sound that way, but that absolutely isn't the goal of the term. Awareness, not guilt.
When you recognize the things you often take for granted, it makes your own life more valuable AND allows you to sympathize with others and treat them accordingly to make their lives better as well. That is the goal, not guilt.
Bullshit! That may be how you see it, and that's fine. But I guarantee that not how most folks using the term mean it. Almost every time I hear it used, it's being invoked as justification or absolution of wrongdoing for minorities.
Either we want a fair, honest society, or we don't. You can't hold the majority responsible for a given activity, and then give a member of a minority a pass for doing the same activity simply because they fit into a certain sub-group of society.
You're right, that is how most people use the term. But that's not how it's defined in academia and research, which is why I'm so intently trying to clear that up right now. Whenever people use the term in that sense, to place blame on one group and
let another get away with something, they are technically wrong. That's an incorrect use of the term. That's a reason why I dislike the wording of the term itself -- it has negative connotations and causes arguments that are largely irrelevant.
I'm not advocating the way you defined it at all. I don't think anyone should be blamed or to have an excuse based on race. In that sense, that's divisive and actually ignoring any real problems rather than being aware, open and communicative.
Just to clear that up. Want to make sure my point comes across the way I mean it, at least. :-)
So, if you agree that the terminology is faulty, and counter-productive, then quit using it. Academic definitions matter very little when compared with popular understanding of a given term or idea.
You can use all the academia you want, but it won't help if the popular definition is something different.
The terminology is only faulty because of how quickly people become defensive over it and thereby misinterpret the true ideology based on their assumptions. The term shouldn't cause that big of a fuss, but somehow it does. And I agree.
I wouldn't know what to use instead to effectively portray a huge idea with only a couple words, but I'll be thinking about it. If we come up with a better way to express ideas, conversation will be much more efficient. :-)
'Equality of opportunity, and equality of expectations, regardless of background or upbringing.'
A little longer, sure. But it sums up what each American has from birth. Any American can become great if they choose to make it so.
It's time to stop blaming ancestors, no matter what race. YOU are the only one who change your outcome. If I could underline "change", I would.
The entire concept of white privilege isn't based around blame at all, but awareness of social constructs. Blame should actually be avoided, like you said.
Ok, I think I read into it too much. My apologies. I was thinking white privilege as something you were born into, as passed down from ancestors.
well saying white privilege is racist... and not true... if anything other races have advantages
That's false though. The academic definition of racism has power attributed to it. Any individual can be racist (obviously), but for it to be systematic there must be power.
The first step to overcoming racism is to 'call a spade, a spade.'
That definition is intended to prevent you from realizing that racism can be by anyone against anyone. The fact is, any prejudicial attitude or action against another based solely on race IS racism. Simple as that.
@Octo, Racism is discriminating against another because of their race. Despite what you may have learned in the government indoctrination centers, there is no prerequisite of any 'power' being attached to the discrimination.
I know anyone can be prejudiced based on race as an individual; I said that above. My point is that "white privilege" is focused on a systematic issue, not an individual one. Hence why I said what I did. The term isn't "racist".
Systematic racism, or racism that occurs from a position of power, has a much greater effect on those it targets -- as does anything else with power backing it. That's logic.
Or the Department of 'Justice' declining to prosecute crimes by minorities that it would almost certainly prosecute if the perpetrator was white, and the victim a minority?
You say it's 'systematic.' Do you mean the system that prefers minorities in hiring? Or in college financing breaks?
The only systematic racism is the government's habit of writing policy in such a way as to grant special privilege and opportunities to minorities.
No. Like I said above, I wasn't trying to discuss it in the political/economical sense here. I mean systematic in the sense that many ways of thinking are ingrained into our culture/society, we don't even realize it, and we behave accordingly.
Regardless of government, just focusing on society. Ex: If you're white, you get fewer judgments from strangers. You're not viewed as the odd one out. People don't give you suspicious looks on the street at night, or trust you less during a...
shopping trip, touring a new residential community, etc. Obviously everyone is judged, but life can be a lot different depending on the position you're in. What I have learned from "white privilege" is that no one is to blame, but just to be aware...
of all the aspects of community we take for granted and how we are treated and viewed by other people, when some don't always have that so easy.
Because there are enough people of a given appearance, association, or ideology, doing a certain type of activity over an extended period of time.
What you're talking about are stereotypes. Answer me this: Why do stereotypes exist?
Does that mean that everyone in that particular group engages in that particular activity? No, of course not. But it's absolutely foolish to ignore the possibility until you can verify that it's not the case.
No, it's just common sense. Does that mean that every white guy is gonna try to junk-punch me? No, of course not. But there are enough of them trying to do it that it gives all the rest of them a bad name, and makes them suspicious in my mind.
Let's say that most of the white guys that I've ever met try to punch me in the junk. Is it foolish for me to start wearing a nutcup anytime I'm around white guys?
It would be foolish to leave myself open to nut pain simply because I didn't want to appear wary of white-guy-junk-punchers.
Frick. Those posted out of order for some reason. I'm sure you'll figure it out.
Stereotypes are a part of what I am talking about, yes. Being white generally means facing fewer stereotypes that actually alter your life and target who you are. And obviously not every individual in a group is exactly the same, I think that is a...
given in all theories and arguments. I'm just talking about social aspects that can and DO affect a person's life, and that varies widely based on the position you are in. I have witnessed it myself. No one is asking you to change your behavior or...
feel guilty or anything of the sort. At least I hope they're not, because that would be wrong. The key point is to keep an open mind about how other people may experience things differently from you do. I got a little lost with some of those...
People who do stupid shit are the ones who get stereotyped.
Young males tend to get hurt doing idiotic things. Does that mean every young male is a daredevil? Not. But the stereotype is accurate AND well-deserved.
comments, but I think our biggest difference is definition -- what we learned the term is supposed to mean. I'm not advocating for more handouts, skewed college admissions, or anything on that level. Just an open view toward life & others.
And as such, young males get charged higher insurance premiums. Does it suck? Yes. Is it discriminatory? Yes. But it's not going away anytime soon because young males are still getting hurt doing stupid shit.
Then advocate for equality of opportunity and expectations, instead of some bullshit, guilt-trip idea that is usually invoked to cover for some idiot doing something stupid.
I do. I fully do. Which is what the accurate definition of the term advocates, despite the fact that the masses misuse it and have caused you to define it as such.
So then drop 'white privilege' like a bad habit, and start advocating for 'Equality of opportunity, and equality of expectations, regardless of background or upbringing.'
It more accurately portrays your intent, and is less open to misinterpretation.
That still doesn't get the full point across. It leaves out the acknowledgment of existing social constructs, and only talks about what we should aspire toward in the future. But to grow, we have to be aware of current problems and change them.
Alright, fine, I'll bite. You keep talking about 'social constructs.' Spell it out for us.
You say you advocate for equality of opportunity, etc. The fact that you say that & we discuss this means that doesn't already exist and that it's an issue, caused by social constructs that are inherent in human communities but need to be overcome.
Social constructs are essentially the viewpoints held by a majority that become so ingrained into our everyday life that we barely notice them anymore, and they affect the things we do. And it's not just racial, but in every aspect of life.
I don't have time to discuss this anymore in depth or often because I have to tour some apartments today, but I'm sure you'd be interested if you read into it. Just social/community function stuff. :-)
Most prejudice arises from the fact that we've created and then grown to accept certain things as truths, for example gender identity -- what's "manly" and what isn't, pink versus blue. But it really isn't that black and white or even correct.
And such views that we adopt affect how we interpret other people and our interactions with them, and sometimes it's things so accepted as "normal" that we can't fathom an alternative. That's just an example. But it's been great talking to you. :-)
You still didn't answer the question relative to this subject. What are the social constructs that you're referring to in regards to the concept of 'white privilege'?