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wmorriso Indiana, US ofA
12/18/16 5:39 pm

Haven't you all gotten tired of this senseless and useless discussion. Give it up. Sit back and await tommorow's Electorial College. Then maybe when Trump takes over Jan 20th you can build a case to compare the two administrations. Obama's is all but over (THank God)!

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JMG Raleigh, NC
12/16/16 10:38 pm

He did a he right thing by not getting involve ed in syrias civil war. Saved thousands of young American lives.

Malekithe R lyeh
12/16/16 5:15 pm

He paid ransom to Iran.

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golfer golfing
12/16/16 12:53 pm

Yes, he's also a tyrannical dictator taking away our freedoms.

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Axl752 NY
12/16/16 12:41 pm

Very strong. No other president has faced as much opposition as him and he has kept it all together and remained very presidential.

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Ebola1 Florida
12/16/16 3:02 pm

Axl, you can't really believe that?

Axl752 NY
12/16/16 3:06 pm

He hasn't faced strong opposition?

Ebola1 Florida
12/16/16 3:19 pm

Yes but I'm thinking more of his foreign policy and our standing in the world where he has failed miserably.

Think Lovin Life
12/16/16 5:26 pm

Axl ... MrO was always going to face opposition. The problem has been that he chose to take his marbles and run home like the petulant child that he is rather than acting like an adult, leading the discussion to cooperative ends.

Axl752 NY
12/16/16 5:28 pm

How did he run home like a petulant child?

Think Lovin Life
12/16/16 7:21 pm

Axl ... the ignorant comment "elections have consequences" as he slammed the door shut, keeping all -- every single -- Republican politician.

Yep, petulant and irresponsible amateur.

Think Lovin Life
12/17/16 4:03 pm

Axl ... is that your definition of a compelling argument?

wmorriso Indiana, US ofA
12/16/16 12:41 pm

Obama is not just weak, he's an embarrassment to all Americans who care about our international image and standing. Weak does not say enough.

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sd123 San Diego
12/16/16 12:31 pm

He has remained a very strong leader despite unprecedented obstruction and unpatriotic attitudes from his opponents.

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commonsense Heroes amoung us
12/16/16 12:05 pm

I'm teaching my kids to call him the "etch-a-sketch" president.
He would mark a line in the sand, say don't you dare cross it or else........no one would listen to him.....he would erase it, then mark another line in the sand. Lol
Weak indeed.

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mim formerly 97123
12/16/16 11:16 am

Considering the congress he's had to work with, he's done quite well.

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commonman1 Peace
12/16/16 12:31 pm

That's funny you said work with.

RagingMystic covfefe
12/16/16 12:33 pm

That's their fault

lj74
12/16/16 11:14 am

VERY WEAK

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Think Lovin Life
12/16/16 11:04 am

Pathetically weak!

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Okie1967 Defend the Police
12/16/16 11:04 am

The Russians clearly think so.

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Think Lovin Life
12/16/16 11:05 am

... as do the Chinese and every other bad actor on the world stage.

Okie1967 Defend the Police
12/16/16 11:06 am

People who seek for safe spaces aren't exactly brave and strong.

Okie1967 Defend the Police
12/16/16 11:07 am

Obama is the tampon in chief.

Ebola1 Florida
12/16/16 11:03 am

The weakest in my lifetime.

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lj74
12/16/16 11:15 am

Mine too

Harry3603 Tampa Bay Florida.
12/16/16 10:57 am

How can any sane person possibly think of him as a strong leader.

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saskiaelisabeth
12/16/16 11:15 am

Because if you look at our countries situation 8 years ago, and all the shut he's had to deal with with congress he's still led us to a pretty successful place. Full employment, out of the recession, pulled us out of Afghanistan. So he wasn't the strongest, he had flaws, certainly didn't help that republicans in congress liked to tear apart any and all of his ideas like savages. Just because he wasn't the strongest, doesn't mean he wasn't strong, a weak president means our country would be in shambles after 4 years, and we're better off than we were 8 years ago. I'd say that makes him strong.

wmorriso Indiana, US ofA
12/16/16 12:45 pm

You, my friend, need to seek some mental health care. You are living in the wrong reality. Talk to the people out of work, those working 2 & 3 part time jobs, those who have given up on finding jobs; look at the highest National Debt of all Presidents combines since 1776! Get a grip man, check you facts before posting your parties propaganda!

chickencookie absolutely no brown ones
12/16/16 12:57 pm

Our country is in shambles.

saskiaelisabeth
12/16/16 1:02 pm

The debt isn't Obama's fault are you actually kidding me? You could've said the same thing after nearly EVERY president's term. We spend too much on government salaries, pensions, and military.

And i don't know who you're talking to but the official data is that unemployment is at an all time low. We're at what's technically full employment now, higher employment is actually bad for the economy if you've ever taken an economics course in your life.

I think the reality you're living in is the delusional one where you've only been fed the republican propaganda.

saskiaelisabeth
12/16/16 1:04 pm

you've been spoon fed publican propaganda.

saskiaelisabeth
12/16/16 1:07 pm

I almost guarantee that if Obama had a different name and party affiliation and all the same shit happened these last 8 years, you'd say he was a strong president. I have no trouble saying Bush was strong, despite not agreeing with nearly anything he did. You seem to have some aversion to saying anything positive about a democratic, like it'll physically harm you to concede that a democratic president could've done anything good.

Harry3603 Tampa Bay Florida.
12/16/16 1:24 pm

Betty, I bet you are a fan of Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, too. How do you like open borders and sanctuary cities? Personally, having served in the Navy when nobody would mess with us, I don't like seeing good kids humiliated! I am upset with the current Administration. I am hopeful and sincerely look forward to a change of direction.

wmorriso Indiana, US ofA
12/16/16 2:19 pm

First: the current National debt is fast approching 20 trillions $, he has in just 8 yrs more then doubled a debt that took over 200 years worth of Presidents to accumulate;
Second: while the figures of unemployment you reference may be true, the number is inflated due to large, extremely large, number of part time worker, not full time work. So take another non-partisan look at unemployment as well as our debt. Your great-grandkids will be paying today's Obama 20 Trillion debt!

wmorriso Indiana, US ofA
12/16/16 2:21 pm

Do you men "republican"? Or "Public"?

saskiaelisabeth
12/16/16 3:06 pm

I meant republican. The national debt didn't just start to rise under Obama. It doubled under the Bush administration, too. Nobody seemed to bring it up as making him weak. If you don't want to cut every program and military spending and don't want tax hikes then it's going to keep rising, under any president you put in there no matter who they are. No one wants spending cut and no one wants tax hikes, and lack of compromise is what's keeping or debt rising, not Obama.

If you look at part time workers for economic reasons, which is really what your referring to, not just part time workers in general. Then the number skyrocketed with the beginning of Obama's administration to try and get people working again, and has been steadily decreasing since. That means more and more people are being employed full-time while unemployment is going down.
It takes little time of research to figure this out. Wish you'd taken the time before BSing to me.

Harry3603 Tampa Bay Florida.
12/16/16 4:02 pm

Betty, I wasn't BSing you, and if I had considered doing that it is obvious that someone beat me to it. Trump is our President Elect. His workload will be enormous. Laws are not being enforced. Illegal immigrants don't pay taxes and cost us more than we can afford. Government is wasteful and bloated. Trump is putting together a cabinet of expert managers, and should be given bipartisan support. Jobs have been exported to other countries and unfair trade is killing us. Sniping will only make things worse!

saskiaelisabeth
12/16/16 4:13 pm

Bob, I wasn't sniping. Obama had an equally large workload coming into office and no republicans were rallying for bipartisan support. You can't be so hypocritical and say Trump is putting together a cabinet of qualified individuals who should get bipartisan support and then not challenge the fact that Obama has a qualified cabinet and received next to no support from the other parties.

Ebola1 Florida
12/16/16 6:56 pm

There are more unemployed now than in the Great Depression and, guess what, we're still in Afghanistan.

saskiaelisabeth
12/16/16 7:13 pm

Yeah you're clearly not that intelligent. Look at unemployment rates smartass. The population during the Great Depression was a third of what it is now. The unemployment rate during the depression was at a high of 25%. Yeah. Smart comment you made there.

Also, yeah, no shit we're still in Afghanistan. But Obama pulled troops outs from combat. The remaining troops are just there to train Afghans. We aren't fighting a war and sending people to die there anymore. That's what was clearly meant when I said he pulled us out of Afghanistan.

saskiaelisabeth
12/16/16 7:16 pm

Also you're just wrong in saying more people are unemployed now than during the Great Depression so that was a stupid comment to begin with.

7,400,000 now vs 50,000,000 throughout the entire Depression. That's not even close.

Ebola1 Florida
12/16/16 7:25 pm

He just sent more 6000 more troops to Iraq. You really have no idea what your talking about do you!

chickencookie absolutely no brown ones
12/16/16 7:33 pm

Is it possible we are being trolled? She can't be serious?

saskiaelisabeth
12/16/16 7:38 pm

I was beginning to think the same thing? Literally everything Ebola has been saying is either just wrong or is irrelevant to what I was saying?

saskiaelisabeth
12/16/16 7:42 pm

Also you failed to acknowledge that you made both a false and outrageously inaccurate claim about Great Depression unemployment rates vs current rates. And you want to say I have no idea what I'm talking about? Ha. Good one.

chickencookie absolutely no brown ones
12/16/16 7:58 pm

I'm with Ebola 🙋🏻

wmorriso Indiana, US ofA
12/16/16 8:15 pm

Yet they are still getting wounded and dying. And what about the "red Line". He drew in Syria;look at Aleppo today, the faces of women and children running from Assad and the Russians. He's a weakling, he's shamed the USA in the worlds eyes, and caused more deaths by doing nothing then Bush caused fighting Muslim Extremismus/terror.

chickencookie absolutely no brown ones
12/16/16 8:49 pm

We are in a dangerous place. He has made enemies with our friends and friends with our enemies.

saskiaelisabeth
12/16/16 10:32 pm

Lol cookie I know you're with Ebola I was thinking Ebola and you were trolling me? Being uninvolved in other countries conflicts is good, when we already have so many domestic issue. You're upset about what's happening in Syria, but yet you don't want to take in any refuges? Like you can't have it both ways. Don't even try to pretend that Bush wasn't the one who got us involved in all this shit. He started a pointless war he know we couldn't win, and now we're involved in all this shit and all Obama is trying to do is pull us out without fucking up all our relationships and putting us in danger.

saskiaelisabeth
12/16/16 10:33 pm

Who exactly has Obama made friends with that are our enemies and who has he made an enemy that is our friend?

Seems more like that's what Trump is trying to do with Putin.

Ebola1 Florida
12/16/16 11:02 pm

Everything I said is true. BO enabled ISIS by botching our withdrawal and made a deal w/ Iran that puts nuclear weapons w/in their reach not to mention paying ransom for hostages. The Middle East is a much more dangerous place because of him. His list of appeasements is formidable and include China, Russia, and Iran. It's not just the ME but the whole world that is more dangerous because of his policies. Remember his line in the sand about the use of chemical weapons by Syria? He did nothing while they used them on their own people. Put your big girl panties on, it's been 8 years and you still don't know why the Democrats lost in a landslide. They will continue to lose until they, like you, keep your head in the sand.

.

saskiaelisabeth
12/16/16 11:23 pm

You still can't acknowledge that you literally said a completely false statement about unemployment? Why do you refuse to acknowledge that you were wrong, and not just a little wrong but SO wrong.

BO did not enable ISIS in the slightest. Against the wishes of the left actually he intervened with ISIL. The US is one of the countries that has contributed to huge slowing of the spread of ISIL. He is not trying to make a show of power to ISIS that ultimately won't improve the situation by sending thousands of troops into one city. The Iran deal was not weak or wrong in my eyes. It was a promised deal beforehand and Iran isn't our biggest enemy at the moment, they're actually helping fight the worlds biggest enemy at the moment.

The red-line issue was certainly a bad move on BO's part. I won't say all his actions were good. But he was put in an incredibly difficult situation of whether to keep sending more and more troops in, or trust Russia to take control of the chemical weapons.

...

saskiaelisabeth
12/16/16 11:27 pm

He didn't exactly do nothing either. He tried to open our boarders to refugees, but apparently helping Syrian civilians is only good to Republicans when it puts the militaries lives at risk and costs us millions of dollars.

Trump didn't win this election because of foreign policy issues. You'd have to be incredibly naïve to think that. He won because of domestic policy issues. People want less big government and want a non-establishment president to protect workers. That's why he one, people were fed up with the system. He very showy stance on how he would defeat ISIS was not what put him over the edge to defeat Hillary, and ultimately, most people with sense know he isn't going to follow through.

saskiaelisabeth
12/16/16 11:30 pm

I'm asking you to name one of his policies, besides the red-line decisions, that has proven to have made the entire world more dangerous as you claim all his policies have.

Ebola1 Florida
12/17/16 3:44 am

Foreign policy is one of the MAJOR reasons Trump won but I agree that domestic issues, like high unemployment were a big factor.

Ebola1 Florida
12/17/16 4:03 am

Policies that made the world more dangerous? Let me think:

1. Deal with Iran. Which is the leading exporter of terrorism in the world today.

2. Appeasement policies with Russia resulting in the massacre of thousands of civilians in Aleppo alone not to mention the rest of Syria as well as the annexation of Crimea.

3. Appeasement policies w/ China over the S. China Sea which has vastly increased the danger to any nation sailing in those international waters, not to mention our allies in the area.

4. The crippling of our armed services.
The world no longer respects as a major super power capable of keeping the sea lanes open or even willing to come to the aid of our allies.

I'm not sure what you've been smoking but that was easy peasy and i could go on. It will take us years to recover from the damage he has done to our country.

.

Ebola1 Florida
12/17/16 4:05 am

5. The destabilization of Libya which is now the training ground for terrorists from Iran.

Harry3603 Tampa Bay Florida.
12/17/16 6:55 am

Betty, it's a bit tiring trying to read through all of your arguments. Please keep them pithy!

chickencookie absolutely no brown ones
12/17/16 8:14 am

I'm excusing myself from this conversation as I feel my blood pressure is starting to rise but he has made deals with Iran and Cuba and yet hates our closest ally in the Middle East - Israel. Snap out of it Elizabeth. People with masters degrees are working 20 hours a week if you consider that employed.

chickencookie absolutely no brown ones
12/17/16 8:32 am

Hey Ebola don't forget China stole one of our ships yesterday in one of those islands they have been slowly taking over.

Harry3603 Tampa Bay Florida.
12/17/16 9:24 am

Actually, China committed an act of piracy in International waters 150 miles from a natural island owned by the Philippines and claimed by China. I am betting that our modern day Neville Chamberlain will do absolutely nothing! Russia would have sank the pirates' ship. The Chinese Navy has violated International Maritime Law, and Obama claims we are respected as never before.

saskiaelisabeth
12/17/16 12:30 pm

This is exhausting. You keep trying to make the same arguments over and over which I keep disputing. Iran is not our threat right now, unless you'd like to see ISIS start taking over the ME? If that's what you want then I see why you're so upset with BO. Sorry you should be upset with the whole free world.

The deals we've made with Iran were not dangerous, in fact not following through with our promise would've made Iran an enemy and cost us American lives.

I don't see how any outreach BO has done to Cuba is bad? Communism is being overturned and we're making a new ally.

BO doesn't hate Israel if you think that then you haven't heard from any Palestinians lately. I think it's fantastic we're trying more and more to stay out of that conflict. Both Israel and Palestine seem to concerned with each other and their petty argument to fight ISIS.

China is not our some responsibility. It's international waters. It's a UN matter, not a BO matter.

...

Ebola1 Florida
12/17/16 12:36 pm

You're exhausting with your inability to see the forest for the trees.

I stand by everything I've said.

BTW the UN doesn't have a navy. Amusing that you don't know that but not surprising.

saskiaelisabeth
12/17/16 12:36 pm

We did not destabilize Libya, we stoped ISIL in Libya and sent aid and troops to try and train Libyans to protect themselves. We can't stay positioned in every country in every city in the Middle East. It's not sustainable.

Back to China Bob, if Russia would've sank the pirate ships then why didn't they? Again have you seen any country doing anything about this? Why is it solely our responsibility to risk lives to put China in check.

Now to our army. Pretty sick thing of you to say Ebola, only garbage doesn't respect our armed forces.
We pulled people out because last I heard before they were pulled out people like you were complaining about how we're involved in too many conflicts and costing too many American lives.
You want a balanced budget and yet you want to pay trillions of dollars on bolstering our military just for a power grab? You don't care about taking care of our military at home, all you care about is your bravado.

Sorry we don't run a country on you British whims.

saskiaelisabeth
12/17/16 12:37 pm

Uh yeah the UN doesn't have a Navy, it's a coalition of countries... not a country. But China is a part of the UN and they broke laws so it's an International issue that the UN deals with punishment and decides which countries will send ships.

Ebola1 Florida
12/17/16 12:38 pm

One of the major reasons for the existence of the US Navy is to keep international sea lanes open.

Ebola1 Florida
12/17/16 12:40 pm

So, what has the UN done about it? LOL

saskiaelisabeth
12/17/16 12:42 pm

@chicken I know you said you excused yourself but you've apparently done no research on unemployment. People who work part time with a masters degree who do not want to are also calculated and that number has been decreasing steadily since it's first rise to pull us out of the recession. There will always be people who aren't employed or people who are employed part time, it's healthy for the economy. Masters degree doesn't mean you'd be a good employee.

saskiaelisabeth
12/17/16 12:42 pm

The UN hasn't done anything. That's the problem, it's not BOs problem. Any why should that be? Why should we be the only country risking lives to keep the oceans free?

saskiaelisabeth
12/17/16 12:48 pm

The South Sea issue is not our issue. The only issue we have is them stealing our drone, which we have demanded back and are awaiting Chinese comment.
The South Sea issue is territorial disputes between a plethora of countries and unless one of our alkyds starts asking for backup, we need not be involved.

Ebola1 Florida
12/17/16 12:54 pm

Let me speak slowly so you can understand. We have to keep the sea lanes open BECAUSE WE AND OUR ALLIES USE THEM!!

Oh, and if you're too ignorant not to know that we destabilized Libya and that it is now a major terrorist training ground then your knowledge of the ME is so poor you shouldn't be commenting on the subject.

saskiaelisabeth
12/17/16 1:02 pm

Exactly we and our allies. Yet it's really only our navy. Seems a bit odd right.

Libya is not terrorist training ground. It's a political mess, thanks to the UN again (see a pattern of the UNs incompetence), but ISIS is being fought diligently. The problem with Libya is we've left them to fight two wars on their own. A political one of the UNs making the war against ISIS. But they aren't a breeding ground for terrorists, unless you mean terrorism against their own government which is barely a government. If you're looking for an example of a week leader, look at Fayez al-Sarraj.

Ebola1 Florida
12/17/16 1:11 pm

WOW! You really don't know anything about the ME do you! My advice is to not embarrass yourself further and cease comment on the subject.

saskiaelisabeth
12/17/16 1:15 pm

All you can say is I know nothing about the ME. Not a very good argument. You've embarrassed yourself to anyone who hasn't been spoon fed the republican bravado rhetoric. Educate yourself on actual issues instead of what you want to be an issue so you can show off some muscle.

Harry3603 Tampa Bay Florida.
12/17/16 1:50 pm

Betty, please tell me you are not a teacher! This country has been a leader in International trade from its beginning. Freedom of the Seas is vital to our survival. We actually fought most of our wars to protect it. With more coastline than any other country, the Chinese are threatening our very existence!

saskiaelisabeth
12/17/16 2:30 pm

Lmao most of our wars have definitely not been about protecting the freedom of the seas. Yeah it's important, it's important to a ton of countries. China, UK, India. All of them depend of overseas trade. It's not our responsibility nor is it in our best interest to protect the South Sea. It's not our fight, and in fact us intervening wouldn't affect our trade at all. It would probably benefit us to not be involved as trading with east Asia right now is a mess. It's what's causing America businesses to either outsource jobs or go out of business.

Ebola1 Florida
12/18/16 10:28 am

"All you can say is I know nothing about the ME. Not a very good argument."

I'm not arguing, I'm just stating the facts and you're showing your ignorance by your convoluted rationalizations. Please prepare next time. I'm not wasting any more time on this conversation.

saskiaelisabeth
12/18/16 11:54 am

Lmao I was prepared. I broke down every single one of the arguments you brought against me. Maybe prepare yourself next time by figuring out what works and what is just a way to show off to other countries.

Ebola1 Florida
12/18/16 11:56 am

What does work, since you know so much?

saskiaelisabeth
12/18/16 12:30 pm

It's not simply an issue of what works in what doesn't. There are somethings that just won't work at all unless you don't care about stopping the conflict and bringing at some peace to the ME. An example of that would be going in guns blazing taking out everyone just as a show of power.

Then it comes down to, what are you willing to sacrifice for bringing an end to the conflict. It depends on who you ask. A lot of people who aren't fighting/know someone closely who is in the military or never had are more willing to send in more troops because it doesn't directly affect them. For them the right thing to do might be send ships in after China. Deploy more troops in Syria. Put lives at risk for the what they think is the good of our country.

Then what could also be considered right by isolationists is pulling out of the conflict altogether. Isolating the US from the ME, and extremists might even want to isolate us from the world. Isolation has proven effective for limited time.

More..

saskiaelisabeth
12/18/16 12:36 pm

Some other people support containing the issue. Putting fewer lives at risk, but never fully eliminating the enemy. This is currently the strategy BO is employing. It is neither successful or unsuccessful. It's doing it's job, but according to different people this may or may not be the right job.

There are plenty of things that "work," but you're always sacrificing something. If peace in the ME were easy right now, then this wouldn't be a huge issue. We've got plenty of counties trying to employ all the different techniques. Russia has some, Iran has different ones, US different also. There's nothing I could say that works that would make you happy because you have your own idea of what your willing sacrifice.

Ebola1 Florida
12/18/16 2:00 pm

Well, nothing BO has done has worked except to get more innocent people killed. He was so tied up with his disastrous Iran deal that he forgot about Russia and Syria, allowing the massive expansion of ISIS, he admitted this himself.
I really feel I've shot down most, if not all of your statements so I won't go over them again. Just read my posts.
I bid you adios.

saskiaelisabeth
12/18/16 4:28 pm

Yes I already you know you'd rather have thousands of American troops killed and complain about innocent lives and deny them refugee. The classic "not in my backyard" hypocrite. You haven't shot down anything because you just keep coming back with the same wrong arguments. ISIS hasn't spread since the Iran deal and lmao BO never said it did. Love to see a source for that but I'm not really keen on continuing this after this.

We're monitoring Iran and Iran's activities. The all P5+1 leaders are responsible for enforcing the agreement. We can't try to take the world in our shoulder, we don't have the people or power to be successful without absolutely demolishing the countries in the process and becoming just as bad at the terrorists killing civilians. BO is using the containment tactic that I mentioned. Yes it involves sacrifice. Like I mentioned, any kind of system does. Whatever you recommend will have consequences, too. Major ones.

saskiaelisabeth
12/18/16 4:33 pm

If you had the seat of president and enforced your recommended course of action, people would be calling for your head saying your totally irresponsible and incompetent. Nobody agrees on how to do this. It's ignorant to call BO weak for dealing with the best way he sees possible. You're willing to sacrifice different things, or sacrifice more, that doesn't make him weak.

But whatever, this conversation is a circle because everything I see you beat back with "but but there are terrorists still so Obama must be bad." Yeah no shit there are terrorists. If it were easy to get rid of terrorists don't you think we would've done between all of these Western countries and the two presidency of Bush and BO?

Harry3603 Tampa Bay Florida.
12/18/16 5:14 pm

Betty, BO is dangerous,because he never served in the Military and instead of listening to his Secretaries of Defense or his Generals, he purges them. He is very much like Hitler, who never rose above the rank of Corporal, but he set the strategy and killed millions of his troops in the Eastern front. Obama's so-called "containment" strategy is taking minimum risks until he is out of office. He is an arrogant fool, not unlike you, pretending he knows what he is doing and getting people killed for no purpose. By the way, I served and had strategic training as an officer.

saskiaelisabeth
12/18/16 5:32 pm

Bob, I never claimed to know everything, my entire argument was that I don't know everything, there are multiple ways of addressing the problem. I am part of a military family so I'm pretty familiar with military tactics, but I haven't served so I'll credit you with that.

BO is very unlike Hitler and saying that shows you have a ignorant, unfounded biased against him. Hitler wanted to expand, his whole thing was about expanding. He got people killed on the Eastern front because he decided to expand despite an agreement he'd made. BO is very keen on not expanding. The ISIL problem was thrust upon him, the result of decades of poor policy of past presidents waging war with the ME. BO is as far as someone could be from Hitler because he has no desire to send our troops into unnecessary conflicts to expand our control. Hence containment.

saskiaelisabeth
12/18/16 5:32 pm

I think you are arrogant for claiming to know what's the exact right way to handle this. Again if there was a no-consequence way, the conflict would be over now.

saskiaelisabeth
12/18/16 5:43 pm

I think the main thing you guys are missing here is that I'm not arguing the BOs tactics are flawless. They're extremely flawed. But every single tactic your could possibly has flaws and people will be unhappy. That's the thing with war, it never ends with everyone happy, even the country that "won."

My whole argument is that just because you don't think BOs tactic is effective doesn't mean he's weak, because you are willing to sacrifice differently than he is. It may not being taking any risks, but there's no evidence that taking risks will even be beneficial. BO isn't weak because you don't agree with him. You are weak for failing to see that there are multiple flawed ways of handling this war and none will ultimately be entirely successful and make everyone happy. The ME is a mess, it won't be solved by one person with military training who thinks he has all the answers. Again if it could be solved that easily it would have been by now.

Ebola1 Florida
12/18/16 7:05 pm

He is the weakest president of my lifetime. Don't you see his policies of appeasement will make it much more likely to have to use force in the future. The only thing the Russians and Chinese understand is power and we have failed to exercise power at all with them instead kowtowing to their every whim we need strength so that we will never have to use it but I understand you would rather sacrifice many more young lives at a late date than show some strength now (which doesn't have to take the form of military troop intervention. You much not watch much news because BO admitted on a 60 Minutes interview that the ability of ISIS to rapidly expand ble for turning and take large chunks of territory was "not even on my radar". He even called them the JV Team. How ignorant is that?? He is directly responsible for the rise of ISIS and his administration is directly responsible for turning Libya into a terrorist training ground That is not my opinion. That is fact!

Harry3603 Tampa Bay Florida.
12/18/16 8:00 pm

Betty, it was over until he made good on a campaign promise to bring troops back home. By leading from behind, he left power vacuums all over the world ensuring that our allies don't trust us and our enemies don't fear us. His legacy will be immeasurable harm. Obama is a classic example of the admonition "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

saskiaelisabeth
12/18/16 8:14 pm

Again this conversation is in circles. You seem to think you have it all figured out about what's the right thing to do and what's going to happen in the future. You seem to care about civilians lives when it comes to Syria using chemicals on its citizens, but not care about what showing power means for those citizens. Russia right now is the most successful in fighting ISIL and the only reason is because they do not care about human rights. They share show of strength ideology, and still ISIL continues to exist.

I'm done with this conversation because you two just hate BO because he didn't do what you wanted. I somewhat hope DJT will just so you can see the absolute mess we'll be left with regardless. The conflict is messy, there would've been a power vacuum regardless. But of course you think there's a simple solution that everyone is just to stupid to figure out.

Harry3603 Tampa Bay Florida.
12/18/16 8:40 pm

Betty, if anyone is talking in circles it is you. I can't recall when I have seen so much written to justify inept lack of action as containment. If you deigned to ask your military family, they would tell you that they need a clear objective, rules of engagement that do not endanger them and available support if things go wrong. I think BO's mind is on his golf game and not having any thing bad happen until he leaves office.

Ebola1 Florida
12/19/16 3:52 am

Elisabeth, i appreciate your concession, such as it is. The truth will usually win out and, at least, you see that the truth is that his policies have been an abysmal failure which have cost thousands of innocent lives , some right here on American soil and will likely cause many more in the future

When you kowtow to evil you just encourage it to push the envelope further as we have already seen with Russia, Iran, China, Syria, and Libya.

I am truly gratified that you see the error of your support for failed policies and have withdrawn from the debate and respect you for doing so.
.

Harry3603 Tampa Bay Florida.
12/19/16 5:07 am

Ebola, I couldn't possibly have said it any better!

Think Lovin Life
12/16/16 11:06 am

Monkey ... finally you share the best emoji to describe MrO's presidency.

wearemonkeys77 Lest We Forget... Hodor
12/16/16 11:10 am

Lol, I was just responding to glux giving him no reasoning for my opinion like he did. Frankly I think he was about avg. He screwed up with Syria though.

Think Lovin Life
12/16/16 11:11 am

Monkey ... do you have government supplied insurance or do you pay for your own?

wearemonkeys77 Lest We Forget... Hodor
12/16/16 11:14 am

Yes I know Obama care is a form of wealth redistribution, in this particular capitalist society. I think it needs to happen. (Bracing for anti-american rant)

lj74
12/16/16 11:17 am

I honestly cannot think of one thing he has done that made us a better nation.
He just doesn't believe in America

gluxford1 Arizona
12/16/16 11:17 am

He screwed up with the entire Middle East, allowed ISIS to rise while refusing to recognize or even mention Radical Islam as a threat to the very existence of the Western World, accumulated more debt than any president in history, presided over the worst economy since the Great Depression, targeted conservative and Christian groups by using the IRS as a political weapon, encouraged more illegal immigration with his unconstitutional executive orders, payed random to the hostile foreign dictatorship and state sponsor of terrorism Iran while making it easier for them to become a nuclear power, among other disastrous policies.

gluxford1 Arizona
12/16/16 11:18 am

* payed ransom

Think Lovin Life
12/16/16 11:20 am

Monkey ... your comrades in Venezuela are calling. Income redistribution isn't what this country needs, we need to shake the millennial snowflakes to their core. They need to understand that the government isn't their nanny, and the lies they've been told won't save them.

wearemonkeys77 Lest We Forget... Hodor
12/16/16 11:25 am

The war in Iraq screwed up the entire middle East. Calling it radical Islam pisses off some allies that are helping us fight isis. The worst economy since the great depression was inherited and he pulled is out of it. The targeting of Christian and Conservative groups was debunked. He has deported more illegal immigrants than any administration. And the Iran deal at the very least stalled them getting a nuke for 15 - 20 years.

iceberg124
12/16/16 11:39 am

1. why should we have to bow to countries that don't even let women drive by not saying radical Islam? We are the strongest country, we don't have to submit to cowards. They don't even use their own troops they send mercenaries.

2. Obama lowered the bar for deportations, now if you get caught at the border it coulda as being 'deported'. He fudges the numbers with nearly everything, the bush numbers were legit deportations, Obama are fake

wearemonkeys77 Lest We Forget... Hodor
12/16/16 11:44 am

Think, you know the president elect and his cabinet may have real comrades in Russia. Wealth is concentrating at the top, close loopholes or redistribute the wealth. If the American dream is dying, its because of income inequality.

iceberg124
12/16/16 11:44 am

3. He shakily rebuilt the economy that is due to Bill Clinton and caused inequality to double. He's leaving space for another depression, not recession. He didn't fix what was fundamentally wrong with the economy, he put a bandage on it.

4. Obama targets conservatives through entities like Facebook. He mocked them for years, Fox News and singled out radio hosts, yet he complains when Trump does it to the liberal propaganda that has basically said it's impossible for him to do anything wrong.

5. He's the least transparent president in history, he legalized propaganda against US citizens, he is only without scandal because of the massive collusion in the media. Look at NYT in 2010 and now, compare the writing. The news changed and it won't go back. Might as well call it state sponsored propaganda

www.google.com/amp/foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14/u-s-repeals-propaganda-ban-spreads-government-made-news-to-americans/amp/?client=safari

Think Lovin Life
12/16/16 11:45 am

Monkey ... wealth is concentrated in the earners. Deal with it! Communism has failed every singly time it's been tried. Deal with it!

Think Lovin Life
12/16/16 11:47 am

Monkey ... did you miss Mrs Clinton's enthusiastic support of the war? How about the VAST majority of Democrats' support for the war?

chickencookie absolutely no brown ones
12/16/16 12:58 pm

He hates America and all that it stands for.

wmorriso Indiana, US ofA
12/16/16 2:21 pm

Wear monkey you think truth is Anita-American?