Show of Hands

Wicca has nothing to do with the Christian tradition and does not recognize the existence of the Christian God or Satan.

Remember, Martin, the Catholic church, as well as all of Christianity, has its roots in Judaism. We all have the Old Testament (Tanakh) in common. The Torah is really the foundation of all of our faiths. We have much more in common than you realize.

Yes but we don't recognize the trinity and consider it polytheism.

But, even your name for God, Elohim, speaks of a singular plurality in the godhead. It is plural in form while being singular in use, like a collective noun in English. That being said, it can then be drawn from this that God, your YHWH, must then be plural in form and singular in use, or action. That is, He is three persons acting as one because they are one. It is no more polytheistic than Judaism.

Do you speak Hebrew?

Why do you ask?

Because most people have no idea that "-im" is a plural form in Hebrew. It shows you have done at least some study dealing with the language, even if you don't speak it or read it fluently. I'm in the same position. I had most of a semester of Biblical Hebrew before a nine-week illness caused me to have to drop the course. Now I'm studying cap on biblical Greek.

And to respond to your point above, Herc, we can indeed see at least two Persons of the Trinity in the Torah. There is Yahweh/Adonai and the Ruach haKodesh (Spirit of God/Holy Spirit). Martin, thoughts on this?

Well, I have done some study on Biblical Hebrew and Greek, but I wouldn't say I speak either. I would love to know more, though. Also, since you are also trying to learn Biblical Greek, the website dailydoseofgreek.com might help, if you are looking for any supplementary material. 😀

Thanks. Have you looked at teknia.com ?

No, but I will. Thanks.

Do you speak Hebrew Mr Laney? You are both giving lessons on plurality and singularity in Hebrew. Therefore, I assume you are both knowledgeable of Hebrew as a spoken language, have had modern classes on it and can speak it, even rudimentarily?
If not, why tell me, who went to a Jewish school and took Hebrew (when Hebrew teachers were available), the grammatical structure of a language you don't speak.

Martin, please don't misunderstand. We're not presuming to lecture you on Hebrew. Our knowledge of Hebrew is tiny compared to yours. We are simply bringing up points that we have learned in a discussion with you, and you are free to correct us as you wish. I think I can speak for both of us in saying that we meant no harm and certainly did not mean to attack you or lecture you. And I apologize if we gave that impression. The fact is, both of our faiths (yours and mine) share the same foundational Scriptures, so "your" Tanakh is "my" Old Testament, and yet neither of us has an exclusive claim to them. You have the benefit of having attended Hebrew shul, and I am jealous of that, because I have a very hard time with Hebrew. Most Christians depend on secondhand information from their pastors or from reference books, rather than trying to learn the original languages themselves. Herc and I have at lest shown the respect of attempting to learn some Hebrew. That's more than (more...)

...most Goyim do, is it not?
So, to plurals. Is it not true that the "-im" ending usually signifies plural in Hebrew? But that it also can signify something more than plurality? Please explain this distinction to us so that we can understand better.

If Elohim implies a plurality of persons, how do you explain that the identical word Elohim in Tanach refers to Moses as well? Regarding Moses, the Torah says,

"The Lord said to Moses, “See, I have made thee a god אלהים, (Elohim) to Pharaoh, and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.”

Are suggesting that there was a plurality of persons in Moses? Is Moses part of a Trinity? The notion that Moses, who is called Elohim in the Torah, possessed more than one person is preposterous. Moreover, if the name of G-d is to signify a plurality in the godhead, why wasn’t the name Jehovah, which is by far the most frequently used name for G-d in the Jewish Scriptures, also written in the plural form?

Sorry, that is exodus 7:1 in the KJV

Good reasoning, Martin. Thank you. I notice elohim is the plural of אֱלוֹהַּ eloah, which is used in Job and elsewhere to signify G-d. My question to you is, why do both the singular and plural form designate the same G-d? Is there any distinction in shades of meaning there?
• Also, just for your information, many Christians would say that Moses was indeed a "triune" individual, as is each one of us. We believe that man is an eternal SPIRIT, possesses a SOUL (mind, emotions, will), and lives temporarily in a BODY while here on Earth. Since we are made "in the Image of G-d," this is consistent with our doctrine of the Trinity, where G-d the Father (Abba, the "Soul"), the Ruach haKodesh (Spirit), and Mashiach (the Body, G-d in the flesh, Emmanu-el) are three "persons" or manifestations of the One G-d. I don't know if you have ever heard this before, so I took the time to explain it so that you can see how we can believe that G-d is One, yet Three distinct personalities. 😃

Are you a Wiccan?

No. but I know quite a few people that are. I'm atheist.