Show of HandsShow of Hands

Marcel94 July 8th, 2013 5:51pm

In Nazi Germany, many Germans said that they weren't pro-Holocaust. But they did not stand up against it either. Where they justified in sitting along the sidelines and watching? (Credit: pinkyusuck)

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JohnnyHelvetica
07/08/13 7:27 pm

I do not want to be held accountable for what my government does, especially if I have no control over what they do.

SugarShaq
07/08/13 7:47 pm

You have control by voting. Until that freedom is gone, too

JohnnyHelvetica
07/08/13 7:50 pm

I voted against the current administration and rarely support what they are doing, that is what I mean in my statement.

Jungle in the dog house
07/08/13 5:56 pm

Most German's didn't know bout the death camps.

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SugarShaq
07/08/13 6:37 pm

"The mass of ordinary Germans did know about the evolving terror of Hitler's Holocaust, according to a new research study. They knew concentration camps were full of Jewish people who were stigmatised as sub-human and race-defilers." The Guardian

SugarShaq
07/08/13 6:42 pm

Hitler ran with a platform of anti-semitism and was democratically elected. Can you see that happening in the US if someone were to run with an anti-Christian platform. Yes.

Jungle in the dog house
07/08/13 6:52 pm

They knew of the deportations and concentration camps. For the most part the German people did not know about death camps.

We knew the Japanese were being herded into, what we called internment camps instead. We did nothing. If they secretly became

Jungle in the dog house
07/08/13 6:53 pm

....death camps, would we have known?

SugarShaq
07/08/13 7:49 pm

Why are Americans responsible for what the Japanese leaders did, but Germans are not responsible for what their leader did?

Jungle in the dog house
07/09/13 12:15 am

I'm just saying that most Germans didn't know about the death camps just as our government would've never told us about any death camps they may have been running.

SugarShaq
07/08/13 4:43 pm

Are Germans to blame for voting in hitler? It was their choice after all. And then they voted in his party.

nightcrow44 the dark side
07/08/13 4:35 pm

I said no but I can see why they didn't its either support or go to the concentration camps themselves... Just a terrible choice either way

SugarShaq
07/08/13 2:59 pm

Democrats: showing their true colors. Disgusting.

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SugarShaq
07/08/13 3:31 pm

And you wonder what dems will do as our government escalates persecution of people of faith. This poll says it all. End times.

SugarShaq
07/08/13 2:56 pm

Were they much different than people today who sit by while segmented groups of people are bashed and persecuted?

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comppete Las Vegas
07/08/13 2:45 pm

No, they were cowards and only afraid of dying themselves.

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MassAsks Boston
07/08/13 1:07 pm

It is easy to sit by and let bad things happen. Just look at our national debt.

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centexken Republic of Texas
07/08/13 12:58 pm

What were the Germans going to do? They allowed the Nazis to take their guns. It's time to fight when the government goes for the guns.

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Posco BBQ Enthusiast
07/08/13 12:55 pm

Germany is now the only nation that gave their soldiers the right to deny their superiors commands if they believe they are going against human rights.

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thekoon TX
07/08/13 12:41 pm

Democrats you make me sick

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Posco BBQ Enthusiast
07/08/13 12:57 pm

8 democrats, 4 republicans, and 7 independents?

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/08/13 11:26 am

Denial. It's easy from position of clear-eyed history to judge behavior. Many didn't really *know* what actually going on until end/after. Then shame takes over. By that time, Reich too powerful to stand against. Psychology very complex.

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pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/08/13 11:28 am

Their silence lent support. Look at Egypt recently. They've made very clear that they do not approve of the road Morsi was leading them down. Where there's a will, there's a way.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/08/13 11:30 am

Unless/until you are in same/similar situation, not likely to accurately know what variables you'll have & what weight they'll have on choices. Having been in situations, you either fight, flee, or freeze. Support can change choice: I'm not alone

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/08/13 11:32 am

It's not a gun to your head (right away, anyway). You'd have time to think it through and make a plan.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/08/13 11:32 am

so I can risk more than if I have to do this alone. In conditions they were in @ time, surviving yourself is front/center. Some have more emo-psy strength to survive *&* fight for others too. Not fair to pass judgement on ppl w/o that capacity, IMO

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/08/13 11:34 am

Everyone has the capacity. We remember the one's who actually used it.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/08/13 11:37 am

Denial - & professional disinformation/propaganda - obfuscates *facts* of what is actually happening. Is it "silence" when you have been lead to believe something other than what is happening? They didn't have cable news & Internet.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/08/13 11:39 am

Those who had absolutely no knowledge of the atrocities were likely few and far between. I'll grant that those few persons obviously cannot be held liable. But plenty of folks knew and didn't say a word.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/08/13 11:40 am

IF general population KNEW - as we now know - what *actually* was happening? Yes. Completely agree w/you. Evil must be confronted & fought w/all energy & determination, regardless personal cost. No debate. They simply didn't know what we know now.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/08/13 11:44 am

I hold far greater account those Americans, today, who fail to defend our founding principles, engage in political process to defend liberty, hold "Representatives" to account & demand FedGov comply w/Constitutional limits. W/Net&Cable, w/o excuse.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/08/13 11:44 am

Well...There's our point of agreement. ;)

boboli
07/08/13 2:19 pm

Pinky: you have to remember that our government knew as well, and did nothing until the Japanese bombed Hawaii. If the German citizens are to blame, than so are we.

boboli
07/08/13 2:25 pm

I mean, we didn't know the full extent of the Holocaust (aka the Final Solution) but neither did most Germans. They, and we, knew about the Jewish persecution and knew of the existence concentration camps.

Jeninerd Hoth, AK
07/08/13 11:25 am

The wording of this question is very biased. But no, I do not believe those who did not directly contribute to the Holocaust are to blame. They had little choice in the matter, faced death for standing up, and often didn't know the extent of it.

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Marcel94 Huntington Beach
07/08/13 11:41 am

It really isn't biased at all.

Marcel94 Huntington Beach
07/08/13 11:42 am

I had no idea this would be partisan until I saw the results like a minute ago

Marcel94 Huntington Beach
07/08/13 11:55 am

" But no, I do not believe those who did not directly contribute to the Holocaust are to blame." That right there is a biased answer, implying that I was asking if these people were to "blame".....

Jeninerd Hoth, AK
07/08/13 12:19 pm

"Sitting along the sidelines and watching" is inherently accusatory. Of course my answer is biased, it's my opinion.

EarlyBird Portland
07/08/13 11:24 am

Not having been there it's hard to say but I do know that fear is very powerful. I prefer to think action wasn't taken due to personal fear.

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camigirl
07/08/13 11:29 am

I agree. I'm not justifying anything, but I can surely empathize. Putting yourself and your family in danger by speaking up or keeping your mouth shut while the horror continues, it's a lose-lose situation.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/08/13 11:12 am

Thanks for the shout out by the way, @Marcel.

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/08/13 11:33 am

Do you not comprehend the fact that they were looking for their best interest? Getting yourself killed for nothing accomplishes... Nothing. It wouldn't matter if they told anyone. The war still would have happened. The Axis powers all knew about

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/08/13 11:34 am

and supported the use of concentration camps.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/08/13 11:37 am

Among the Axis nations, yes.
But among the Allied nations, the full extent only became clear after Germany's defeat.
That information could have bolstered support for the Allies, weakened it for the Axis, and even caused a quicker end to the war.

Marcel94 Huntington Beach
07/08/13 3:18 pm

Haha yeah man, I can't take credit. You gave me the idea. Good discussion by th way

rlands
07/08/13 11:10 am

It was so so hard to live during that time, and it's really a survival thing. They kind of had to count on the Nazi regime to survive.

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pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/08/13 11:11 am

No, they chose to. They could have spoken up, or attempted to flee. They didn't.

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/08/13 11:14 am

I am pretty damn sure you would have done the same thing, pinky. Very few people would risk their safety as well as that of their families in order to protest against a government which wasn't going to change as a result.

rlands
07/08/13 11:16 am

Attempting to flee isn't the same thing as speaking up. Not at all.

And also, at first the Nazis weren't completely into straight out killing all non-Aryans. So people may have attached themselves to the party before that agenda came about.

JollyMan93 Big Sky Guy
07/08/13 11:17 am

This is why pinky we must learn from history never to repeat it and to speak up when we see something wrong. It consumed them from the inside out. Fear and hate for an already looked down religion during that time. The Nazis had this planned out

JollyMan93 Big Sky Guy
07/08/13 11:21 am

Look at the dessert fox. Great leader who was humane who attempted to assassinate hitler and failed. Hitler threatened to kill his family if he didn't kill himself. There were good men that tried when they had the opportunity

JollyMan93 Big Sky Guy
07/08/13 11:24 am

Lol *desert
(Highly loved German officer)

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/08/13 11:25 am

Attempting to flee would the first step. By saving your own life, you then have the capability to speak up freely without fear of retribution.

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/08/13 11:27 am

In the time which you could flee, many did - but that was prior to their knowing of the concentration camps. Before the internment of the people, Jewish persons actually supported Hitler and his Reiche.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/08/13 11:27 am

@MrL, I would certainly have been concerned for the safety of my family. But I couldn't stay silent. I would try to get us out first, but I would not stay silent.

JollyMan93 Big Sky Guy
07/08/13 11:28 am

@ pinky knowing me I probably wouldn't stay silent either. But we're Americans. We're always speaking out against the gov. (Even though they don't listen it seems..they don't kill us either)

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/08/13 11:29 am

Once you would have had the knowledge, you could attempt to flee - and most likely be killed anyway. People still persecute the Hitler family for things which were far out of their hands.
Hitler was an inspirational, charismatic, strong and

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/08/13 11:29 am

Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/08/13 11:30 am

intelligent leader who happened to be insane. It's very unfortunate.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/08/13 11:30 am

And @MrL, It's obvious that those with no knowledge of events couldn't speak about said events. But plenty did know and still kept their silence.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/08/13 11:33 am

It's still better to die trying than to do nothing at all.
Fear of death as justification for overlooking the murder of others is the worst kind of cowardice.

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/08/13 11:34 am

see the comments I accidentally put above.

JollyMan93 Big Sky Guy
07/08/13 11:38 am

@ pink during that time ppl of Germany didnt know everything. I guarantee most of the German people were good people but also during that time there was a dislike for Jews around the world still. Hitler used this and other things to his advantage

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/08/13 11:41 am

I'm not suggesting that the conditions weren't a perfect storm for Hitler to carry out his atrocities.
But that still doesn't excuse the silence of those who knew and did nothing.

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/08/13 11:41 am

Have you ever done any actual research on the matter? Many citizens didn't know this was occurring until after the war.

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/08/13 11:42 am

Say whatever you want, but until you're poised with the situation, you don't know what you would actually do. None of us do.

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/08/13 11:43 am

Hopefully, no one will ever have to face such horrendous things ever again.

JollyMan93 Big Sky Guy
07/08/13 11:43 am

They did nothing only because they didn't know everything on top of facing charges and/or death if they spoke out. Ppl still did or tried. Look at what else they would do. Telling their youth to turn in your parents if they speak out against the nazi

JollyMan93 Big Sky Guy
07/08/13 11:47 am

They poisoned the youth. This is why we must try to vote properly and stay on top of what our own gov is doing

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/08/13 11:48 am

Make no mistake, it has, and will happen again. Different names, faces, methods and reasons, but it's a recurring problem. I believe that it's happening here in our homeland on a larger scale as we speak. There's nothing new under the sun.

JollyMan93 Big Sky Guy
07/08/13 11:50 am

@ pink it's kinda happening in a way. The youth today believes its ok the gov will come and take care of you. That's a little creepy. But the other side, my side I think has gotten their message out and still keeps trying. The IRS scandals r one thin

JollyMan93 Big Sky Guy
07/08/13 11:51 am

Are one thing that really isn't good no matter who's being targeted

beanD California
07/08/13 11:08 am

Not justified, but it is understandable. I'd be scared out of my wits by Hitler, too.

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Marcel94 Huntington Beach
07/08/13 11:05 am

Unfortunately 'Inglorious Basterds' is not based on a true story.

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JollyMan93 Big Sky Guy
07/08/13 11:00 am

Yes. People of Germany were afraid of being killed if they didn't obey.

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pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/08/13 11:10 am

But does that justify their cowardice?

JollyMan93 Big Sky Guy
07/08/13 11:13 am

Well they didn't exactly know jews were being treated and killed like they were from my understanding. Also it was in the works for years of indoctrination of an already looked down spine religion. Jews were mainly rich businessmen in Germany

JollyMan93 Big Sky Guy
07/08/13 11:14 am

Hitler used that as another advantage because Germany was so poor. Saying the Jews were taking over using fear.

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/08/13 10:54 am

You had two choices: Support the holocaust or pretend to. If you didn't choose one of those, you were either killed on the spot or sent to a concentration camp.

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pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/08/13 11:09 am

Death, or shared suffering is better than shared guilt.

Jeninerd Hoth, AK
07/08/13 11:23 am

I bet the people who survived and their subsequent generations disagree with you.

SugarShaq
07/08/13 3:37 pm

Sorta like Obamacare, extreme taxation, NSA monitoring, gun control. The sheeple stand idly by with closed mouths and allow government control. No different than Germany, we just kill millions of babies every year.

Marcel94 Huntington Beach
07/08/13 10:53 am

My great-grandfather (SS of some Reich) told me they (Nazi leadership) never had any problem with 'protestors'.

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JollyMan93 Big Sky Guy
07/08/13 11:01 am

Well they didn't. They just got an excuse to shoot them

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/08/13 11:09 am

Exactly. They didn't have a problem with protesters because in fairly short order, there were none.