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Show Of Hands July 8th, 2013 11:38am

Reports say one of the fatalities from the San Francisco plane crash may have been killed after being run over by an emergency vehicle. If so: tragic accident, or gross negligence?

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mspringer
07/12/13 8:18 pm

The remote chance she survived the impact and ejection is very small the engineer was focused on the fuselage burning in front of them those airport fire trucks stand at least 11ft or higher and why are we even asking this????

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pcox104 Florida
07/10/13 5:24 am

Fine those passengers can just walk themselves to the hospital.

Kinsey
07/11/13 5:16 pm

Wow...that's extremely insensitive...many passengers have crushed vertebrae and compressed spinal cords...I'd like to see you walk to the hospital with those injuries

MarlaSinger
07/09/13 10:15 pm

It's fckd up.. Survive massive plane crash.. To be Hit by a car moments later

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ladyniner81 no hope for humanity
07/09/13 6:44 pm

I'm sure they didn't do it on purpose, and with all the chaos that was going on,it was a tragic accident. they might have not seen the person, or the person stepped in the way of the ambulance and well..tragedy stuck. Who knows?

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bnnt Los Angeles
07/09/13 3:27 pm

When it comes to a rescuer, I have to lean towards accident.
These people are putting themselves in danger to help others. Once we start negligent claims against them then you open a door that nobody wants to get involved.
Very bad precedent.

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wingman646 Jacksonville
07/09/13 9:16 am

How can anyone say this is not gross negligence? They ran over a survivor! I understand the concept of rapid response, but that NEVER takes precedence over situational awareness. You saved no one (they're already off) and killed a kid to stop a fire that only burned up the plane Freaking brilliant.

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mcdkm Houston
07/11/13 6:22 pm

They didn't know if anybody was in the burning plane or not or if it was going to explode. They are rushing every emergency vehicle they have as fast as they can into a smoke filled area risking their own lives. Not even a little negligent!

dryanmorr
07/08/13 11:50 pm

Circumstances it all depends.

babsange
07/08/13 11:46 pm

Isn't running someone over accidentally always negligence? I feel like an ambulance killing someone is obviously negligence. They're supposed to help/save people, not injure (or kill) more people.

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willthehuman Suburbia
07/08/13 9:58 pm

As a rule, I very rarely blame first responders. I know they are doing the best they can and they are among the most qualified for their job, but sometimes things get crazy at crash scenes and you are focused on so many things and mistakes are made.

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Shovelbender Warren, PA
07/09/13 5:01 am

As an EMT, I want to agree with this. However, we ARE trained professionals, and part of that is "driving with due regard for the safety of others". It's exponentially harder to gain the trust of others when tragedies like this happen. Unfortunate, I agree, but unfortunately we're in the public eye.

SouthernG Man Cave
07/08/13 9:00 pm

Gross negligence in that you watch what you about to drive over.....not oohing and awwwing at the plane wreckage.

Eyes in the road......

SouthernG Man Cave
07/08/13 9:01 pm

That said, where was the body, in the grassy field or on he runway? Was it reasonably visible or hidden? Mitigating circumstances may apply

ScorpioAries13
07/09/13 12:40 pm

That's my question. If the person was buried under debris or engulfed in smoke or something like that, than there's nothing that could've been done. Just really terrible luck :/

arste New York
07/08/13 8:56 pm

Obviously an accident but that family will likely sue anyways. How else will they get money of this?

rcgrant south carolina
07/08/13 8:55 pm

accident the gross negligent part is what lead to the crash. you have no idea how far the victim was from the wreckage or anyother varibles. can say this if the victim was struck I definitely was not due to neglicence

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SugarShaq
07/08/13 7:54 pm

"Gross negligence" How? Gross negligence would have been standing by and not rushing to save lives because someone might get killed.

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sarah5
07/08/13 7:14 pm

The emergency responders were trying to get to the scene as soon as possible. Footage shows a significant amount of smoke and debris on the runway. It was a tragic accident and you're disgusting if you're mentioning lawsuits already.

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sarah5
07/08/13 7:13 pm

The emergency responders were trying to get to the scene as soon as possible. Footage shows a significant amount of smoke and debris on the runway. It was a tragic accident and you're disgusting if you're mentioning lawsuits already.

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dabomb
07/08/13 6:46 pm

I'm hoping its an accident but I guess you never know...

SugarShaq
07/08/13 8:05 pm

That would imply they ran over someone on purpose

dabomb
07/08/13 8:19 pm

Then what is negligence

SouthernG Man Cave
07/08/13 9:03 pm

On purpose would be a homicide....accidental is manslaughter....legally speaking...which makes it a criminally negligent situation

SouthernG Man Cave
07/08/13 9:12 pm

That was the vehicles coming up in the back, chasing the ambulances.....the lawyers. All passengers had representation before they left the runway. ????

dabrat East Coast
07/08/13 4:58 pm

It is a tragic accident, an emergency. I can't even imagine how much stuff was littered and who knows how thick the smoke was. first responders -heroes going in there in that situation. Prayers to the family of those lost little girls.

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arandomguy Colorado
07/08/13 4:05 pm

I'm sorry but I'm lmfao about this, I know it's bad but it's so funny at the same time.

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MissN The Experiment
07/08/13 3:56 pm

Let's get the facts before we react..

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violence Pretty hate machine
07/08/13 2:40 pm

"Hi officer. Yes I ran over the pedestrian multiple times, but it was an accident you see. So sorry."

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mcdkm Houston
07/11/13 6:36 pm

"While I was rushing through a smoke filled debris field to get to a flaming airplane that could possible explode to save 291 lives"

leilu SoCal
07/08/13 2:03 pm

I say it's an accident until proven negligent.

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FollowYourBliss Never Happy, Ever After
07/08/13 1:20 pm

I don't think we have enough information to judge. We don't know what the situation was like. Lets give them the benefit of the doubt.

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Brrrrrrrrr
07/08/13 1:07 pm

I'm sure there are jobs out there for such colossally incompetent individuals, emergency vehicle driver is not one such job.

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nivek1 Indiana
07/08/13 12:50 pm

Ugh it's just an awful accident. We're all human and mistakes are going to be made. I'm sure that emergency responder feels awful considering their job is to save lives, not end them :( both are victims in my eyes. Sad sad sad.

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Fiftysiete California
07/08/13 1:40 pm

When I heard that the only fatalities were from this "accident" I was horrified these people survived a plane crash and then the person who is suppose to save them kills them I'm not sure is could continue doing that job if it was me

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/08/13 12:40 pm

With all the debris on that runway? Under stress & duress? Horrifying accident!

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elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/08/13 12:54 pm

Is it even known whether the person was *killed* by ER vehicle or *body* run over by ER vehicle? Could have easily been dead already &/or covered by debris. Stunning on 2 killed in the crash/fire!!! We saw 1st pix & thought, "surely no survivors"

ScrewU Gone
07/08/13 1:38 pm

They said the two girls killed were found near the edge of the runway on opposite sides of the airplane. So one was killed without having been run over. The other was probably already dead as well.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/08/13 1:54 pm

From reports I've seen, my sense is those two girls were dead before ER personnel got there. But not sufficient info yet to feel certain of that. Also have sense they were significantly apart from other survivors, which means thrown from wreckage.

hoosierwisdom inner voice
07/08/13 12:26 pm

Please, stop the "every tragedy has a fault" mentality.

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ScrewU Gone
07/08/13 11:14 am

Everyone in the last few rows was thrown from the airplane when the tail broke off and slid down the runway. Amid the dust and smoke, I doubt rescuers expected to find victims lying hundreds of feet away from the aircraft.

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Injectable Trump Killed Babbitt
07/08/13 11:51 am

They should have expected anything, that's their job. Their job is also to save lives not run them over because they weren't paying attention or rushing onto a scene too fast. People are big, they didn't hit a rabbit.

FemmeAdamWest in the Tardis library
07/08/13 12:31 pm

Exactly, how did they (whoever it was) run over a body and not even look out the window? Why didn't whoever run over the poor girl get out and go holy f*ck I just ran over someone? Why is it two days later and they are still having trouble figuring

FemmeAdamWest in the Tardis library
07/08/13 12:33 pm

...It out? Even if it was an accident, how do they still not know which emergency vehicle is responsible? Those vehicles aren't meant for driving over debris just because they are emergency vehicles. Why didn't the driver come forth immediately?

ScrewU Gone
07/08/13 1:35 pm

Fire trucks are big and there had to be debris everywhere. It's easy to see had they could have been unaware.

theavgguy I.E.
07/08/13 2:33 pm

Why must blame be assessed on everything. If this did happen it is a tragic accident, the driver will live with all their life or until they commit suicide.

dabrat East Coast
07/08/13 5:03 pm

16-year-old girls are tiny, I would think they'd be easy to miss and all the debris and smoke. I too, hate the need to blame.

SouthernG Man Cave
07/08/13 9:03 pm

They said an ambulance, not a fire truck....not so big

dustbunny
07/08/13 10:51 am

If there was a lot of smoke and debris and the person ran in front of the emergency vehicle then of course it was an accident...sucks though, to survive a plane crash and get killed once in the ground.

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pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/08/13 10:08 am

Depends on how the run-over happened. Safety should always be tops when driving, but some things are nigh un-foreseeable.

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Blarney Wrightville
07/08/13 9:58 am

Soldiers have countless hours of training specifically geared toward combating guerrilla warfare and other terrorist specific tactics. So would you then blame the soldier's own death on his negligence because he was a trained professional?! C'mon

sailrealvty Downtown
07/08/13 10:09 am

Nope it it sure as heck wasn't an accident.

Blarney Wrightville
07/08/13 11:46 am

You think it was done on purpose?

sailrealvty Downtown
07/08/13 4:36 pm

@blarney
The idea that while at war anything is an accident is, well, ludicrous.

War is no accident. It is calculating and beyond logical.
Holy smoke even in the military a training accident = cover up

cornybread The Large Malus Fruit
07/08/13 9:37 am

Maybe they could have been more careful, but I wasn't there. I'd imagine it was chaotic and people were running all over the place. Maybe we need to re-teach the "look both ways" rule?

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FemmeAdamWest in the Tardis library
07/08/13 12:35 pm

I don't think a look both ways rule is going to be running through anyone's head after just surviving a plane crash

cornybread The Large Malus Fruit
07/08/13 12:44 pm

But you certainly can't let yourself be panicked enough to run around like a chicken with its head cut off. You have to have some common sense.

BCKR Onward and upward
07/08/13 9:30 am

Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

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tinyswetter mass
07/08/13 9:29 am

Need more info

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fredd TrumpLand
07/08/13 9:11 am

There was probably a lot of smoke and dust. I reckon there is a balance between the risk of driving into the smoke versus waiting for it to clear and taking longer to reach those in need. I'm sure it was a tragic accident.

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sailrealvty Downtown
07/08/13 9:10 am

How can you, a first responder, trained for this - be anything but negligent when you run over and kill a victim ??????

Of course unintentional but an accident??

Signed S Freud

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brharper13 New York
07/08/13 9:48 am

As a life guard and having many first responder friends I can say that the real thing is far different from training. They don't train first responders with potential blasts, people screaming and dying everywhere and true adrenalin. I think it's a horrible accident, but I wouldn't say careless.

jvc1133 61535
07/08/13 9:05 am

Unbelievable

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CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
07/08/13 9:04 am

Probably on purpose because they played Grand Theft Auto. I bet they saw them on the ground and were thinking, "I'm gonna run them over, and then go bowling with my cousin"

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babyboomer1 The flatulance express
07/08/13 8:51 am

If you've never functioned as a First Responser to a tragic situation you can't imagine the adrenaline and anticipation running through mind and body. Scenarios run through your mind and then you're there.

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mikeey1962 on SOH where else
07/08/13 9:01 am

I have.. And can... There is training for that.. You train and train, that's why firemen, police and ambulances, slow down at intersections.. Lights and sirens do not give you the right of way... Just warn people of your approach..

mikeey1962 on SOH where else
07/08/13 9:01 am

Can't do your job if your creating more damage,

babyboomer1 The flatulance express
07/08/13 9:17 am

@mik. Absolutely. But people don't realize how always changing scenarios make situations so dangerous. I was a 1st responder, HBT and a supervisor. Scene management is crucial and personnel management is even tougher. Safety is paramount.

mikeey1962 on SOH where else
07/08/13 9:21 am

Then.. If they were following safety how did someone get run over.. Even if that person was down to begin with(as has been speculated).. First rule of anyone in a rescue situation, don't get hurt, how can you help if you need to be rescued

mikeey1962 on SOH where else
07/08/13 9:22 am

You go in safe,, if you can't dont go...

aurealis the sky
07/08/13 9:40 am

Mikey I'd like to see you jump your ass in there & do something w/o causing any damage. It must be nice & easy judging while sitting in the comfort of your home. You should have more respect for these responders and the situations they have to handle

mikeey1962 on SOH where else
07/08/13 9:52 am

Been there done that.. 25 years of service, plus 3 as an EMT... Yes I can judge them.. Why because I made all the right decisions to get here...

babyboomer1 The flatulance express
07/08/13 9:53 am

@ mike. I was in Albuquerque two weeks ago. Nice city.

mikeey1962 on SOH where else
07/08/13 9:58 am

Yes it is.. Only go there to visit my daughter going to UNM.. She goes there because we live near Las Cruces. And kids gotta get away..lol

Kay41 the Midwest
07/08/13 8:42 am

I am actually appalled at the number of people voting gross negligence. These are first responders who put their lives on the line and suffered a horrible accident from which they may never mentally recover. We live in a cynical society.

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mikeey1962 on SOH where else
07/08/13 9:11 am

Sorry but that's how I feel, in 25 years on the police force never once did I cause someone to loose life so I could rescue someone else

mikeey1962 on SOH where else
07/08/13 9:14 am

If it was just an average citizen, yea I can see accident, but these were trained personnel.. In my book that's negligent ..

sailrealvty Downtown
07/08/13 9:14 am

They didn't suffer a tragic accident they chose a profession which trains and trains and trains them to "handle" the level of intensity.

They weren't volunteers with a day of "Here is what might happen; console and empathize training!!!!????

Kay41 the Midwest
07/08/13 9:21 am

I can see your point from the viewpoint of a trained professional. I just think we are not infallible and that we are judging this before knowing the entire set of facts.

mikeey1962 on SOH where else
07/08/13 9:24 am

True, but like I said above.. If they ran her over its they're fault, whether she was there already or running from the plane

sailrealvty Downtown
07/08/13 9:24 am

We will never get the full story. Well, until the book and/or movie comes out.

Wait. Nope not then either.

Cynical or Realistic??? Who can / will judge ?

FemmeAdamWest in the Tardis library
07/08/13 9:27 am

You know who's never going to mentally recover? That girls parents.

Kay41 the Midwest
07/08/13 9:28 am

I agree it is their fault. Just struggling with the words "gross negligence". And, btw...25 years with the police force...congrats!

mikeey1962 on SOH where else
07/08/13 10:09 am

Didn't say gross negligent.. Just negligent....

Kay41 the Midwest
07/08/13 10:16 am

I mean the question says "gross negligence."

mikeey1962 on SOH where else
07/08/13 10:24 am

Yea,.. Phrased the question wrong...

askmenething Buffalo, NY
07/08/13 8:35 am

The firefighters who ran her over, work every day to save lives. I'm sure they feel horrible about it. I can't say if it was too smokey, or chaotic, or what the reason. But I can't imagine it being anything but an accident.

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camigirl
07/08/13 8:21 am

Don't have enough information to decide yet, I think for the most part they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. That must be hard to tell the family...he/she survived the crash, but was hit by an ambulance right after.

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Zod Above Pugetropolis
07/08/13 8:20 am

Whether she somehow survived the poor landing only to be run over by a rescue vehicle or had been thrown from the plane during the crash and killed before being run over makes no real difference. Responders can't just wait until the smoke clears.

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deucediggz
07/08/13 8:13 am

Who was driving the rescue vehicle?...homer Simpson

lmurder MDK
07/08/13 8:02 am

They say it was chaotic and a mess. But that's what a plane crash is. Hopefully she passed away before she was ran over. What a horrific death. Thrown violently from plane and killed by the rescue teams truck. I only pray she died quickly,

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Mooo42Q Thats Nucking Futs
07/08/13 7:57 am

Wow! Ain't that a btch?!
To survive a plane crash, just to be immediately killed by being run over. SOB

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MissN The Experiment
07/08/13 4:03 pm

Girl, you're making me laugh mah a** off, don't think that's right ..If I didn't laugh, I'd cry..

Mooo42Q Thats Nucking Futs
07/08/13 5:24 pm

This is certainly one of those instances

nudiedude chipley
07/08/13 7:50 am

Could of been an accident though by how crazy the environment was at the time or negligence if the driver was intoxicated

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