Show of HandsShow of Hands

TomM July 7th, 2013 7:29pm

DC city council passed a bill that retailers with a parent company that makes more than $1 billion per year, occupies at least 75,000 sq ft and is a non-union shop, have to pay employees $12.50/hr. 2nd round vote is next week. Fair or Unfair? (Cont)

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kateXcore Dark side of the moon
07/08/13 4:19 pm

That's absurd! ...and many people will lose their jobs now. Asshole politicians...

skacey best poll is evenly split
07/07/13 10:43 pm

This is irrational on two counts. if you believe that a minimum wage is the only way to ensure workers are paid well, the minimum wage should be set to move with the consumer price index. If you don't believe, its a bad idea on the face of it.

skacey best poll is evenly split
07/07/13 10:44 pm

Either way, I can see no good reason to support this bill.

commonsense America isnt racist
07/07/13 9:31 pm

Wow. That's horrible. Talk about socialism/communism.

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think4yourself Not a safe space
07/07/13 8:08 pm

Unions collapse businesses. That is why membership has been declining over the years. Most every industry they are in are either failing or subsidized by the taxpayers.

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think4yourself Not a safe space
07/07/13 8:12 pm

They are taking taxes from people making a fraction of the union wages to pay for the union wages. Public sector unions are the worst. They are taking money from people making minimum wage with sales taxes to pay for someone making $50+ per hour.

TomM
07/07/13 8:40 pm

This was decided by the city of DC. The information is limited, but it looks like they excluded unionized workplaces because they already get a higher pay. Unions supported this, but they are not trying to unionize here or anything like that.

nmills Utah
07/07/13 5:44 pm

If this passes, retailers will just pass on higher labor costs to consumers and raise prices. That'll hurt everyone in DC, especially the poor who rely on low-cost retailers like Wal-Mart for their everyday needs. An employer pays you what your...

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nmills Utah
07/07/13 5:46 pm

...labor is worth. $12.50 is more than I make! If I thought the work i did was worth more I'd Quit and find a new job. Government meddling with wages will just push prices higher for all and increase unemployment.

TomM
07/07/13 5:50 pm

This rule only applies to large retailers like Walmart and they tend to have the same prices everywhere (before tax). This will also be a disadvantage for them because it doesn't apply to smaller competitors and any store outside the district.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 5:50 pm

At least you post a logical argument. High five!

PeppyHare Do a barrel roll
07/07/13 5:38 pm

What does union/non union have to do with anything...

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 5:42 pm

Unionized places usually pay more/have more benefits.

PeppyHare Do a barrel roll
07/07/13 5:45 pm

Yeah but they shouldn't be able to target like that... Aren't we supposed to be equal under the law?

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 5:49 pm

Yeah, you have a point. Maybe more light will be brought to that next week. Itll be something to keep an eye out for. The city council might also think that a unionized workforce already has an open dialogue with the business as oppose to no unionize

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/07/13 4:22 pm

Reading some responses/attitudes in this poll, I've decided this doesn't go far enough. It isn't fair that people's families are not perfect, not fair that everyone doesn't get straight As in school, that anyone must pay anything for higher education

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elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/07/13 4:25 pm

not fair that all babies not born perfect or anyone dies, ever, from anything. Isn't fair anyone is ever angry or sad or wanting for anything. This must be immediately corrected by local gov or state gov or fed gov - immediately! Utopians unite!

TomM
07/07/13 4:29 pm

LOL I am to be honest surprised how much discussion this poll generated. Just tells me how diverse the community is.

evoecon nearest binary system
07/07/13 3:32 pm

The response options should have been "intelligent" or "stupid".

TomM
07/07/13 3:36 pm

In that order? Just curious which one you find intelligent?

evoecon nearest binary system
07/07/13 3:38 pm

Intelligent for fair and stupid for Unfair.

TomM
07/07/13 3:41 pm

Interesting, since I don't agree, please explain how it's fair to make a law that targets only a few large retailers?

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/07/13 3:44 pm

I think it's stupid and unfair. Most people who think it's fair probably think it's intelligent.

evoecon nearest binary system
07/07/13 3:46 pm

Fairness is in the eye of the beholder. Tough to prevail on a conflict based on fairness. Intelligent/stupidity is based on whether the action will achieve the intended goal without negatives exceeding the positives. The council is stupid.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 3:46 pm

It's fair (maybe intelligent? That remains to be seen) because larger retailers are the abusers. Why target small businesses who are not at fault here?

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/07/13 3:50 pm

What's so abusive about providing goods at low prices by using labor that has agreed to work cheaper?

evoecon nearest binary system
07/07/13 3:50 pm

Please..... Tell me beach, what are the large retailers 'guilty' of doing. What is it the do that is illegal?

TomM
07/07/13 3:53 pm

Evoecon I get it now. I think it's too difficult to answer whether this will meet a goal, yes maybe, depends on what the goal is and the time perspective. What I wanted to ask is, if it is fair to target large retails with this law.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 3:54 pm

I'm seriously not doing this again. I'm worn out and heated. People are STUCK with those jobs. It's the largest retailer, it leaves nothing behind. Where else can an unskilled worker work after maulmart comes through?

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 3:55 pm

Guilty of a lot of things. Looks at wealth distribution from the 70s to now. Corporations' profits and execs' pay shoots up, workers wages bump up a tad. They're guilty of not trickling down like the right fetishes about. Worker make shit wages.

evoecon nearest binary system
07/07/13 3:58 pm

beach if you are tired of other people understanding the large retailers are not committing any crime, and others could never agree with you, then you need to do other things. Your concept of fairness contains no logic. See what I mean TomM.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/07/13 4:01 pm

The options are stuck with those jobs or stuck without them. Leftism crusades against low wages, without heed to the jobs destroyed in the process.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/07/13 4:01 pm

You can never make burger flipping or shelf stocking more valuable with legislation, so as price rises, demand must fall, and more jobs go to the graveyard.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/07/13 4:03 pm

Wealth disparity is not a bad thing! It's a force of nature. If anyone gets richer, the rich will get richer faster. Why? Because rich people are those who are GOOD at getting rich!

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 4:07 pm

Evo, I'm just the one y'all haven't been able to force off of here.

Doopy, nothing wrong with rich, but if you think that disparity (did you see?) is good, then we're done talking and I'm gonna go finish off these firecrackers.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/07/13 4:10 pm

I didn't say it was good. I said it wasn't bad, and more importantly, impossible to fight.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/07/13 4:13 pm

It's just there. Like gravity or entropy or younger siblings breaking your toys. It's part of how the universe works, and "ya cannae' change the laws of physics". Well, you cannae' change the laws of economics, either.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 4:13 pm

Sharing profits with your workers through higher wages is not an impossible thing to accomplish, doopy.

evoecon nearest binary system
07/07/13 4:16 pm

beach... I am not trying to force anyone off tis site. My reaction was to you condescending comment alluding as obvious what is really you proselytizing an archaic hypothesis. There is always income and wealth disparity, explainable with logic.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/07/13 4:17 pm

Yeah it is. You make laws forcing people to "share" (read: forcibly redistribute) their profits, and they will just find a way around it. A new line of work, work somewhere else. A worker is only worth what they can provide. That can't be changed.

Cruz2016 Rum Bum Beach City
07/07/13 4:39 pm

Beach you seem to have problems everywhere you go. Everyone else must be crazy, but not you ;)

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 4:43 pm

I can definitely understand everyone's point on this issue. I'm just amazed at everyone's hostility on such a local issue. DC is unique. It's not a city, a state, or a country. It's dangerous with HUGE wealth disparities. It's not a good mix.

evoecon nearest binary system
07/07/13 5:00 pm

beach, the question was using the situation in DC as a prompt, whether local or not. The passion centers on the folly of the concept. Republicans have their sacred cows using similar logic (e.g. Income tax code deductions and sales taxes).

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 5:38 pm

I'm also amazed at people thinking race isn't involved.

beamie Michigan
07/07/13 3:15 pm

Employer/employee relationships have changed. You use to be able to be paid what you were worth, time off for family affairs. That dynamic changed. You give your time and work hard to make the buck for that CEOs fat wallets.

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TomM
07/07/13 3:22 pm

Who decides what someone is worth?

TomM
07/07/13 3:23 pm

It looks like DC has decided you are worth more to a big retailer than a small store.

beamie Michigan
07/07/13 4:12 pm

People should be able to make a living. I would say the business but greed has taken over. They would pay penny's on the dollar. Many companies have proven this by moving jobs over seas to pay very low wages.

TomM
07/07/13 4:54 pm

The issue I have with this specific situation is that DC has decided big retailers have to pay higher than smaller retailers.
Yes many businesses have moved abroad, but is a low paying job in the US worse than no job?

Arkansas123 Neoconservative
07/07/13 2:35 pm

To me, this seems to be nothing but an attempt to punish big business and non-union shops. If the D.C. City Council wants workers to be paid more, raise the minimum wage equally for everyone.

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BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 2:37 pm

I would agree with that, but that's such a huge jump for ALL businesses. Especially small businesses. I'm all for raising the min wage, but not that much everywhere. That's be the highest in the country.

TomM
07/07/13 2:38 pm

That's my thought too, but only little more than half agree. It's a battlefield ....

spicysteve M14D SBS
07/07/13 2:23 pm

TomM: just so ya know, this has to be one of my favorite questions ever.

TomM
07/07/13 2:26 pm

Looks like you have a lot of followers too. Many of mine are inactive. Please feel free to repost. You may have a different following.

beamie Michigan
07/07/13 3:09 pm

Not inactive... Just sometimes I don't have smart things to say ???? lol

TomM
07/07/13 3:13 pm

Ha ha, this was not a complaint about the comments.
I'm just basing it on my 250 followers and I get maybe 150 votes. I know some of them have not been here a long time.

political Georgia
07/07/13 2:13 pm

Get the government out of the way!

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political Georgia
07/07/13 2:20 pm

These workers must be paid 12.50, even if they do not deserve that amount. Ridicules.

political Georgia
07/07/13 2:26 pm

The employer should determine that, not the government.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 2:31 pm

No, they shouldn't do you see what happens when they do? The government has to force employers like Walmart to pay even $7.25. Which isn't even enough to live in DC!

political Georgia
07/07/13 2:33 pm

A business is not responsible for welfare.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 2:35 pm

You're right! But we fucking fund that when they don't pay workers enough. People are going to get food. They would rather be able to pay for it, but they WILL get food stamps if they have to. That's from min wage workers.

political Georgia
07/07/13 2:36 pm

The government will be funding a lot more welfare too, if you increase the minimum wage because businesses will cut back.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 2:38 pm

That's the thing. They are only doing it to businesses that can afford it. If they cut back, then they are being greedy corporations and execs heads should roll.

political Georgia
07/07/13 2:45 pm

The government picking winners and losers... That is something I cannot support.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 2:47 pm

Can you support having to pay less for welfare because businesses actually pay people a living wage? Did you want to pay that or make businesses pay workers fairly?

political Georgia
07/07/13 2:57 pm

That's the problem beach you will pay more in welfare if you raise the minimum wage!

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 3:01 pm

We pay more as fewer and fewer people can pay for necessities. Remember we pay welfare to the workers, not company execs.

political Georgia
07/07/13 3:05 pm

And who pays for the unemployed when businesses layoff workers because the government forced them to raise their wage?

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 3:12 pm

Political, folks on the right like to say this a lot, but with record high corporation profits and record low wages, I call bullshit there. They, Walmart ESPECIALLY, can pay livable freaking wages without breaking the bank. Stop protecting them.

political Georgia
07/07/13 3:14 pm

No I am protecting the working class. Why can't corporations and the working class have a mutual relationship?

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 3:17 pm

Because you're destroying unions!!!!!!!! How can you meet with a corporation? It's not a person!!!!!!!!! Unions lobby within the business for higher wages to protect the workers. In right to work states workers make less. You need unions for that.

political Georgia
07/07/13 3:21 pm

Man I wish I could receive credit for destroying unions.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 3:23 pm

You advocate for no unions, no govt forcing govt wage....I don't see Walmarts just OFFERING higher wages at a whim.

political Georgia
07/07/13 3:27 pm

How many jobs do they create? 2 million! That is 1% of all jobs in the US. Yeah! I am not complaining about them creating jobs.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 3:27 pm

You can't have no unions, no min wage, AND less welfare. It'd be nice, but history shows us businesses don't just offer wonderful wages.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 3:27 pm

2 million jobs that fuels the 46 million under the poverty line. Don't play silly n

political Georgia
07/07/13 3:29 pm

Yeah! Now what if Wal-Mart shut down? Welfare increases!

political Georgia
07/07/13 3:30 pm

If you don't want to work for Wal-Mart, Don't! You have a choice to apply for another job elsewhere.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 3:34 pm

They are ALREADY on welfare unless they're married.

Get another job. Easy for you to say. Not so easy when it's the only job in the ghetto that will employ you.

political Georgia
07/07/13 3:38 pm

Woah woah! Not all of those 2 million workers are on welfare.

How many Wal-Marts are in the ghetto?

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 3:45 pm

Not all, but I wouldn't (couldn't) say the same for Costco and whole foods.

Um, most. You don't find them in glitzy neighborhoods.

political Georgia
07/07/13 3:54 pm

I would say in the middle of the town in a place that is very convenient.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 3:59 pm

Very convenient indeed. But then that's all they have. And it pays 7.25. And they have 2 kids. And they're now relying on food stamps, TANF, and help from the city for daycare. That's NOT convenient. I'm not sure what you have against a fair wage...

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 4:00 pm

Forgot to say no health insurance too. So, when they get hurt, go to the hospital, and declare bankruptcy, it costs us money.

political Georgia
07/07/13 4:01 pm

Absolutely nothing against a fair wage, but the business should decide that wage.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 4:04 pm

It would be less than 7.25 if businesses chose. Like I ALREADY said (here we go again), Walmart has to be forced to pay a living (not really living) wage. You think they would pay a living wage when they're the biggest employer in town?

political Georgia
07/07/13 4:07 pm

Then workers will start looking for other jobs. If Wal-Mart sees their employees leaving they will raise workers' wages. Let the free market work.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 4:10 pm

Ou say you hate unions yet you sit here and advocate a tactic unions use to demand higher wages? You heard of that lady that tried to do this, but there were no union? It failed because corporations don't listen to one worker or 10 or 20 or 100.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 4:10 pm

Political, that's why I said in a small town. Where else is there to work? The workers are stuck at an abusive corporation.

political Georgia
07/07/13 4:12 pm

Nah! It's called job hunting! Weigh the pros and cons of every job. I guess Wal-Mart employees like their jobs, since so many choose to work there.

political Georgia
07/07/13 4:13 pm

That is why the government should lower taxes and regulations so small businesses can start-up.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 4:17 pm

Okay youre confusing me. First you hate unions, then people should act like them. Then you hate Walmart, but they're saviors, you want less poverty, less regs, and less...I'm just so lost right now. I'm seeing you advocate for things you say you hate

political Georgia
07/07/13 4:43 pm

How are people acting like unions? One person is not an organized group. One person does not get paid to go on strike. Sorry, but I fail to see how that is anything like an union. When did I say I hate Wal-Mart. I love low prices!

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 5:36 pm

You said when people walk out they'll raise wages. One person isn't going to make them wages. A union has a much better chance. If you love America you'd be pro-union.

political Georgia
07/07/13 9:28 pm

Sure but it will be a group of individuals. They are not organizing a strike.

think4yourself Not a safe space
07/07/13 2:09 pm

It is going to crush small business. Whenever the liberals try to take from the big guy, they crush the little guys.

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BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 2:09 pm

It doesn't apply to small businesses.

TomM
07/07/13 2:17 pm

Beach is right, it only applies to stores over 75,000 sq ft which only Walmart, Costco and the like have.

Cruz2016 Rum Bum Beach City
07/07/13 2:17 pm

@beah: what happens when they start to make the $$ cap smaller and move on to businesses that have a parent company who makes $10m a year and occupies 15,000 sqf? As it is they are going to force a lot of franchise owners to cut their margins w/this

TomM
07/07/13 2:19 pm

Rand at least for now it only applies if the individual store is 75,000 sq ft.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 2:28 pm

@rand, come on. Let's stick with the issue first before we start dreaming hehe.

Cruz2016 Rum Bum Beach City
07/07/13 2:30 pm

Since when does government stop with a foothold?

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 2:44 pm

When that foothold is $5.25 over the federal min wage.

kermie gaytopia
07/07/13 1:48 pm

Nice question btw Tom. :)

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TomM
07/07/13 1:50 pm

Thanks, I was questioning if people would just all vote unfair and it would generate no debate. I love how diverse my following are :-)

TomM
07/07/13 1:52 pm

I see I have a 100% for this question so far.

TomM
07/07/13 1:55 pm

That was 100% like rating, sorry that was unclear.

Cruz2016 Rum Bum Beach City
07/07/13 1:45 pm

Why not go ahead and tell us how much we have to pay for food and how much we are allowed to make too. Tell us how much food we can eat, water we can drink, when to pee, etc..wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_negative_effects_of_government_regulation#page1

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kermie gaytopia
07/07/13 1:47 pm

Wow, overly dramatic slippery slope tantrum much?

canecorso Las Vegas Nv
07/07/13 1:50 pm

Kermie considering Bloomberg tried to stop people from buying 20 ounce sodas in New York I'd say he's not far off.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/07/13 1:52 pm

Not all slopes are all that slippery. Wisdom observes what has happened, determines predictable pattern, applies trajectory to potential future outcomes = predictable/avoidable consequences. Takes appropriate action or let's nature take its course.

Cruz2016 Rum Bum Beach City
07/07/13 1:56 pm

Biz leaders are rising up to call attention to the fact that government policies are adversely impacting their ability to expand and hire. mobile.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/economic-intelligence/2012/05/18/government-regulation-killing-economic-growth

canecorso Las Vegas Nv
07/07/13 1:42 pm

8.25/hr now that's about 330/wk before taxes. 12.50/hr + Obamacare will have employees making about 3.12/wk, out of which they will have to pay for their own insurance. 40 hours a week now, 25 hours (part time) within 4 years. Why do laws like this

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canecorso Las Vegas Nv
07/07/13 1:43 pm

always end up hurting the people their supposed to help?

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/07/13 1:44 pm

Way too much logic/reality there sir. ::sarcasm:: Will upset Utopian's worldview.

GetEduc8d learning more everyday
07/07/13 2:06 pm

Wow for a minute there I thought you were one of those wackos. I'm glad you're actually just a regular logical person. :^)

swjboucher Just Run
07/07/13 1:33 pm

DC knows how to kill jobs that's for sure.

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BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 1:38 pm

If they can't pay fair wages, then they'd shouldn't be there.

kermie gaytopia
07/07/13 1:47 pm

It will help jobs by giving everyone more to spend on the local economy.

swjboucher Just Run
07/07/13 1:47 pm

Beach
Why are unions exempt And don't just assume and tell me it's because they pay more.

TomM
07/07/13 1:47 pm

DC campaigned and convinced Walmart to open stores in the district. They are planning 6 stores over some years. Why try to get them to the city then?

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 1:52 pm

@swj: Why are unions exempt? I'm confused, is the union a business making over $1 bil with a 75,000 sq ft storefront?

Tom, that does seem odd. Are Walmarts already contracted to go there? Or can they back out now? Passing it now seems odd.

swjboucher Just Run
07/07/13 1:56 pm

Try reading the article beach

TomM
07/07/13 1:57 pm

I was not able to find any information on why it excluded unionized shops, but it said that on several sites, so I included it. If I'm wrong please let me know and I will apologize in advance.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 1:58 pm

I already said I didn't read it yet below. Excluding unionized places would make me think because they already pay them livable wages. I'm all for supporting unions, though.

TomM
07/07/13 1:58 pm

Walmart has promised to open 6 stores over some years. It will also apply to existing stores such as Costco but they have 4 years to comply.

TomM
07/07/13 2:01 pm

Walmart has not said if they will do anything differently. They are waiting for the final confirmation next week.

GetEduc8d learning more everyday
07/07/13 2:02 pm

Beach why shouldn't the minimum wage apply to them like everyone else?

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 2:04 pm

Okay, I read it. I like it. Seems a bit early to pass since not all Walmart constructions are concrete yet. The city could lose money if even one pulls out. And it REALLY needs one in SE DC tough call for Gray. SE really needs something.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 2:05 pm

@get, because unions are fighting for workers rights, so it doesn't really need the city to do it, too. It would be overkill to the business. I would support a higher minimum wage for all in DC, but union workers already have higher wages.

TomM
07/07/13 2:12 pm

"A bit early to pass"? Are you suggesting they wait passing the bill until Walmart has built and then cannot leave without huge costs, so they will be stuck?

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 2:48 pm

Yes, exactly. I'm being a bit silly, and I'm no economic planner. But even I would second guess having to nearly double someone's pay..

TomM
07/07/13 2:55 pm

So was that serious? I hope you posted that as an on purpose silly comment.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 2:58 pm

Well this isn't something I would say to someone trying to come visit me. You come, lay roots, big sales, raise the minimum wage. It's done everywhere in this country.

jonfrei the boonies
07/07/13 1:13 pm

You are going to see businesses relocate, at an ultimate cost to the citizen who now has to travel farther for the same pay... (And potentially paying taxes on it twice - DC where they live + the state they are now working in...

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elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/07/13 1:29 pm

Unless they also choose to relocate to be closer to work.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 1:34 pm

@elia: NoVa is very expensive, DC is expensive, MD is probably where low waged Walmart workers would live. There or the ghetto in DC. That just breeds more crime since they don't make enough to live there. It's a trap for poor folk up there.

Blarney Wrightville
07/07/13 12:58 pm

It's unfair for wal-mart to be targeted by govt and also unfair for workers to be paid so poorly when they profit so greatly.

This question, to me, boils down to where does the greatest disproportionate level of fairness lie.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 1:02 pm

In the larger retailers.

TomM
07/07/13 1:02 pm

So you think it's fair to make a rule which specifically applies to Walmart and a few other retailers?

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 1:05 pm

Absolutely. The EPA wouldn't target a business not violating a regulation to pay a fine. They would target the violators. This SHOULD target larger retailers or else I wouldn't like it (from what I gather here). I research more in a bit.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 1:21 pm

I'll research* I promise me know basic English.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/07/13 1:31 pm

Life is not fair & it is not one of the Fed Gov's enumerated powers/responsibilities to make it so.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 1:33 pm

It's it's job to protect its citizens. A business abusing its workers with low wages is the perfect example for the government to come in and tell them to shape up.

kermie gaytopia
07/07/13 1:42 pm

It isn't the Federal Government doing this but regardless, yes, protecting its citizens from abuse is one of the few things government should be doing.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/07/13 1:43 pm

No. It is the responsibility of the local Community to protect that Community & it's members. It is *specifically* not Fed Gov's job, assuming Constitution actually means anything anymore. Constitution *very* specific regarding Enumerated Powers.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 1:43 pm

Well, good thing the issue is concerning the city council. Now you should have no problem with it, right?

kermie gaytopia
07/07/13 1:46 pm

Check out the preamble to the Constitution. It's there. And besides, again, this is a local city council.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/07/13 1:48 pm

If that Community's members support the action? I have not one problem w/it. My personal *opinion* is it counterproductive & will have unintended consequences, but it isn't my Community. They can/will deal w/consequences, so, whatever.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/07/13 1:59 pm

Preamble +
constitutionus.com/
Yes. Local Gov. Still, however, part of US covered/protected, theoretically, by *principles* of Constitution. Not that it matters, it would seem.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 2:08 pm

Washington DC wasn't the capital, so provisions dealings with a federal district weren't really addressed. Heck, it didn't even have a city council until late 1900's.

political Georgia
07/07/13 12:54 pm

The government forcing businesses to pay their employees a certain amount. NOOOOO!

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TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
07/07/13 12:50 pm

Too many dang Democrats on that city council! Run 'em outta town on a rail! Git the tar'n'feathers!

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TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
07/07/13 1:13 pm

Unfortunately, you're right for the time being. But we shall rise sir - rise like a phoenix from the ashes and take back the Senate - and the White House - AND the Supreme Court! We shall rise again, and the glory of our great Nation will shine anew!

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 1:18 pm

Nooooo, say it ain't so!! Tlaney, you're killing my ears, hah!

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
07/07/13 1:20 pm

@beachst - To get the full effect of the above comment (excluding the first sentence), it should be read dramatically in the main hall of the Virginia assembly by a talented Patrick Henry impersonator. My mother was a proud daughter of Roanoke. :-)

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 1:23 pm

I could imagine it now. We have wonderful colonial actors in colonial Williamsburg (where they shot HBO's John Adams series). And I was just at the Capitol building yesterday, it is quite impressive. Big halls for perfect impersonations!

EagleOK Oklahoma
07/07/13 12:49 pm

I bet these companies won't stay in DC very long. Or if they do, they will lay-off some people.

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BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 12:46 pm

$12.50 sounds real good. DC is impossible to live in on minimum wage. On those businesses that can afford it is the right thing, too. But the 75,000 sq ft. I can't imagine the size right now, but Georgetown shops are small, not sure exactly how...

TomM
07/07/13 12:50 pm

D.C. pressed Walmart to open stores in the city and Walmart has agreed to open 6 stores over the next few years. 75,000 sq ft is quite big, few stores will meet that.

rlands
07/07/13 12:52 pm

There's no way this would apply to shops in Georgetown. Those would never make a billion dollars anyway. And Tom's right - we're getting tons of new Walmarts. And a bunch of Costcos and Whole Foods have been opening recently, if those fit the bill.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 12:57 pm

Not all Georgetown shops, but it's only for ones that have parent companies that earn $1 bil, right? The North Face among others? Isn't there a sunglasses hut? I can't remember, I don't shop there.

TomM
07/07/13 12:58 pm

I don't think whole foods would meet the size requirement, they are generally smaller, at least the ones I've been to.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 12:58 pm

Well, if it's only applying to these large stores they're trying to get, then I would support it. Walmart pays shit wages and would just increase poverty in DC, Costco attempts to pay good wages already, whole foods I'm not sure.

TomM
07/07/13 12:59 pm

Each shop has to be 75,000 sq ft. That's a pretty big store.

rlands
07/07/13 1:02 pm

Tom are you sure it's 75000 per store? There's no way that can be right...that's total for all stores, right?

TomM
07/07/13 1:08 pm

"Wal-Mart plans to open six stores in the city, and Restivo said the first two are set to open this year. The size of the stores would range from 80,000 to 120,00 square feet."

TomM
07/07/13 1:10 pm

At the end of this article, this is from earlier this year when it was first proposed
articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-03-20/local/37864098_1_minimum-wage-retailers-outlets

rlands
07/07/13 1:21 pm

Those are giant stores. And I have just learned that I'm not a spatial person at all :) haha so yeah beach all stores in Georgetown would be out of the question.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 1:25 pm

Oh, the individual stores must be 75,000 sq ft? I thought it was just the parent company. Okay, erase my comment from your memory. Could you imagine a big ol Walmart paying $12.50 in anacostia? Or the NE area? Impressive.

spicysteve M14D SBS
07/07/13 12:41 pm

The United States is becoming a discrimi-nation

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spicysteve M14D SBS
07/07/13 12:42 pm

I really like bad puns.

The liberals talk about being fair to all, however, they're specifically targeting and singling out certain people and punishing them. However, this will almost certainly get through in D.C.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 12:47 pm

Punishing them by making those that can afford it pay workers a fair wage?

Processing On a journey to oneness.
07/07/13 12:50 pm

Working for someone is a voluntary act why should the government have a say in it?

spicysteve M14D SBS
07/07/13 12:52 pm

It's the responsibility if the workers to make what they need

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 1:02 pm

When people need a job, they'll work wherever they can. You're saying that everyone at Walmart WANTS to make $7.25 as a single parent. You're wrong.

kermie gaytopia
07/07/13 1:05 pm

Pay people a barely living wage? So unfair!

spicysteve M14D SBS
07/07/13 1:13 pm

By forcing businesses to raise wages, you're strangling them and they'll have to cut people. I do think minimum wage should exist so that we can avoid a Grapes of Wrath situation, but $12.50 is too much and they're also singling out specific people.

kermie gaytopia
07/07/13 1:16 pm

Strangling Wal-Mart? Lol please.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 1:21 pm

Why pay the people at all! That's money out of the businesses pocket! $12.50 isn't going to hurt Walmart, but they'll make it seem like it. "Oh, $12.50? A living wage? We'll have to cut our workforce by 45,000. Sorry, D.C."

spicysteve M14D SBS
07/07/13 1:48 pm

Maybe because stocking shelves and ringing up laundry detergent isn't worth $12.50 an hour

kermie gaytopia
07/07/13 1:54 pm

Wow. That might be the most demeaning thing I've heard in a long time. I'm just going to walk away before I cuss you out.

Good luck with your sheltered life.

spicysteve M14D SBS
07/07/13 1:58 pm

I thought you guys believed in equal pay for equal WORK. My aunt was a CNA (certified nurse assistant) and made only $12 an hour. Last I checked, helping actual people indeed was a lot harder than working a cash register

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 2:50 pm

Kermie I'm with you. Remember inge's poll about what moments made you mad? It was this topic last year. I just can't stand the demeaning comments. Especially to mainly single parents trying to provide for their fucking families and get off welfare.

spicysteve M14D SBS
07/07/13 2:54 pm

I'm not demeaning anyone. You're the one demeaning single parents by saying they're all poor and on welfare.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 2:57 pm

Statistically speaking they are. Thats the demographic that is more likely to be working minimum wage without being able to afford going back to school. The ones that are stuck with kids being left in the ghetto. Youre being demeaning, and were done.

rlands
07/07/13 12:38 pm

I get where it's coming from, but I think there are other factors too. And minimum wage is fully sufficient to protect the workers...

TomM
07/07/13 12:43 pm

$12.50/hr is crazy in itself, but the bigger problem I have is that it applies to certain retailers only.

rlands
07/07/13 12:45 pm

Well I don't think it is intentionally targeting one or two retailers, just that entire class of mega corporations. That I have less of a problem with, but I still don't think it should be done.

TomM
07/07/13 12:47 pm

The bill is called Large Retailer Accountability Act. I don't think there's any doubt who they want to target.

rlands
07/07/13 12:51 pm

Right but it's a class of retailers, none specifically. But I still totally get what you're saying, and I think it's unfair. We'll see if it passes...

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 1:00 pm

What's the hate against it? It's like the VRA targeting the south. It should be targeted there if that's where the abuse is found.

TomM
07/07/13 1:01 pm

My fundamental issue is that it applies to certain retailers only.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 1:03 pm

Well it sounds like it's good because it exempts smaller businesses that can't afford these measures. It needs to target larger retailers because they're usually the ones making more and paying people less.

TalkingNinja Texas
07/07/13 12:38 pm

you as the employee are responsible for making sure you can find a job that pays the bills. your employer should not have to over pay for employees like greeters or janitors.

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PeanutButterJulie Cincinnati
07/07/13 12:36 pm

Unfair. I think a person should be paid based on skills, education, and what they can bring to a company.

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PeanutButterJulie Cincinnati
07/07/13 12:42 pm

Also, the company should be the ones deciding this, not gov't.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/07/13 12:36 pm

Might as well just burn Constitution & be done w/it. It clearly has no meaning or effect anymore & no one appears to be willing to defend/protect its principles anymore either. Corruption & tyranny & PC define "rules" now. Nullification, anyone?

GetEduc8d learning more everyday
07/07/13 1:05 pm

What part of the constitution does this violate? Please educate me.

TomM
07/07/13 1:23 pm

I don't know about constitution but how about equal treatment?

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/07/13 1:29 pm

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish JUSTICE, ... & secure the Blessings of LIBERTY to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/07/13 1:38 pm

The basic PRINCIPLE of form of our Gov. Power from ppl to city to county to state to fed gov, not other way round. Everyday we become something *other* than Constitutional Freemarket Republic w/power that flows from WeThePeople up.

GetEduc8d learning more everyday
07/07/13 1:40 pm

TomM I agree this is more about equal treatment.

Star-nice try but that opening statement is broad & open to interpretation. Some might say justice is being served & Walmart & the like have the liberty to do business in DC as long....

GetEduc8d learning more everyday
07/07/13 1:40 pm

as they meet certain requirements. Not that I agree with that interpretation, just saying it's not as unconstitutional as you might think.

TomM
07/07/13 1:42 pm

Equal treatment of who? Whole foods will get an advantage over Walmart because their shops are a little smaller and under the limit.

GetEduc8d learning more everyday
07/07/13 1:44 pm

Well if there's any level that this sort of law should be enacted is at the city level where the people have the most direct input. (again not saying that I agree with this law)

GetEduc8d learning more everyday
07/07/13 1:50 pm

TomM I totally agree that this law is unfair I just don't think it's unconstitutional.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/07/13 2:06 pm

Being Constitutional/not really my point. These sorts of things violate core principles upon which this Nation was formed & Constitution written. Purpose of Constitution intended to confine Gov interference w/expression of individual, then State,

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/07/13 2:10 pm

liberty. We are so far from reality of that general populace no longer recognizes what has been lost/taken. More & more seem to *want* tyranny of centralized Gov over liberty. Assessments made from "here" rather than historical foundations of freedom

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/07/13 2:17 pm

That general "principle", not "populace"... curse you auto-correct!

EarlyBird Portland
07/07/13 12:34 pm

That's so wrong. Who is government to force businesses to pay certain wages?!
Enough is enough!

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TomM
07/07/13 12:34 pm

Anyone voting fair please read the articles or at least tell me how it is fair to make a law targeted at Walmart and a few other large retailers?

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TomM
07/07/13 12:36 pm

Please note it doesn't apply to small retailers, they still can pay the local minimum wage of $8.25.

alek12 Orlando
07/07/13 1:08 pm

I think it's fair.

TomM
07/07/13 1:11 pm

How is it fair to make a rule so specifically targeted at Walmart and a few other retailers?

kermie gaytopia
07/07/13 1:12 pm

It's fair because they can afford it and choose not to do the right thing.

alek12 Orlando
07/07/13 1:17 pm

Like Kermie said, they make huge profits but chose to pay the minimum. That's not fair that they make so much and pay their employees so unfairly.

TomM
07/07/13 1:20 pm

Let me try another way then.... Shouldn't all retailers then pay 12.50 too?

alek12 Orlando
07/07/13 1:24 pm

Well I do think 12.50 is somewhat steep. On a related note, minimum wage should be $9 and tacked to inflation...but when a company makes $1 billion a year and pays them nothing... That's unfair

kermie gaytopia
07/07/13 1:37 pm

Sure, I think everyone should be paid at least 12.50. It would bring a huge influx of money into the economy and all businesses would do better because of it. But businesses like Wal-Mart that make billions on the backs of their workers have an

kermie gaytopia
07/07/13 1:37 pm

ethical obligation to treat their employees like human beings.

TomM
07/07/13 1:41 pm

I think that's meant as sales but doesn't matter
In Q1 2013 Walmart had a profit margin of 3.3%. Not many companies make that little profit.

TomM
07/07/13 1:45 pm

As comparison Starbucks made 11%

TomM
07/07/13 12:31 pm

The bill — backed by organized labor and other advocates for workers — would affect stores already operating in the city, including Home Depot, Macy’s and Costco, which would be required to comply within four years.

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TomM
07/07/13 12:31 pm

But the legislation, known as the Large Retailer Accountability Act, is generally seen as aimed at Wal-Mart, which plans to open six D.C. stores in the coming years.