Show of HandsShow of Hands

rebelfury76 July 7th, 2013 5:38am

The Threat Management Center in Detroit is picking up the slack of the local police force that has drastically cut back service, despite demanding the same payment. Is this proof of concept for a state less society?

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pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/08/13 12:46 am

I voted no. I don't think that it is in a community's best interests (particularly in a state-less society) to hire a company to provide general security. Specific security for specific persons or immovable locations, perhaps.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/08/13 12:46 am

But I don't believe that an employee of a private security company should be able to stop me on the street for any reason, nor to enter my property for any reason.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/08/13 12:47 am

I see this as just another outsourcing of responsibility. Folks should be banding together in their communities to defend each other, and deter crimes. THAT is how you reduce crime long term with no real worries about damage to civil liberties.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/08/13 12:47 am

Instill morals and virtue in the community's children, and teach them to love their neighbor. When folks care about their neighbors, they don't steal from them, rape them, or kill them.

Fjolsvin Midgard
07/07/13 1:47 pm

I would gladly get rid of both the police and this guy. The answer to who watches the watchers was they shall watch themselves for we shall tell them the great lie that they are better than who they watch. That lie has failed. Police=street gangs

jonfrei the boonies
07/07/13 12:13 pm

No basis for his authority. Any "arrest" he tried to make would be false by statute, and I would certainly defend myself vigorously against any illegal show of force he might try to make...

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NUwriter
07/07/13 8:40 am

You just said it was obvious that private firms do things better?

skinner Wisconsin
07/07/13 3:16 pm

They do, but anarchy is not better than civilization.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/07/13 4:28 pm

Who said anything about anarchy? Why do you always go there? Government doesn't have to be a 100% on or off thing, lets just turn this shît down to simmer for a while, you big govt folks have had your fun.

skinner Wisconsin
07/07/13 6:18 pm

I would hardly describe myself as a big government person, I recognize that there are instances where government is necessary, but I believe those instances are limited.

ClarityRose Now taking suggestions
07/07/13 12:50 am

Without having read anything other than what's posted here, my initial reaction is that it's too soon to tell.

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ClarityRose Now taking suggestions
07/07/13 12:51 am

One major concern is this: if you pay them $100 to protect you, what's to prevent them from taking $5000 from someone else to wander off for 5 min so he can shoot you?

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/07/13 1:44 am

Too soon? He's been in business for 20 years.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/07/13 1:44 am

And what's stopping corruption amongst government police?

Nothing

shellybaxter1234 Peaceful Place
07/07/13 9:31 am

Elections are supposed to stop corruption - they don't always work, but at least there is a tool

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/07/13 4:29 pm

How exactly do elections, financed by private campaign contributions (bribes) do anything to combat police corruption?

ClarityRose Now taking suggestions
07/07/13 4:49 pm

He's been providing free services to supplement the police force for 20 years? Or he's just been in private security for 20 years? Big difference.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/07/13 5:13 pm

He's been in business for 20 years, he's only seen a boom in sales since the gang of Detroit has started saying "f you" to the taxpayers.

shellybaxter1234 Peaceful Place
07/07/13 6:34 pm

Elections are at least a tool that CAN be used by people who are fed up with corruption to fight it. What tools are available to fight private corruption exactly?

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/07/13 6:35 pm

Not doing business with them. They die. Simple.

Elections are a farce and are likely predetermined. In light of everything else that's come out it really wouldn't surprise me.

shellybaxter1234 Peaceful Place
07/07/13 6:50 pm

But if we are talking about a private security company and the big money is in on the corruption and they are providing the security to poor people for "free" how could they fire them

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 12:16 am

I would need more details, but I wouldn't trade the police for ANYTHING private. I think that's a dangerous area for entrepreneurs to be getting into.

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BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 12:36 am

But I'm all for a private security company lending their simple services to a dangerous neighborhood. Anything over a handgun and I wouldn't want them in my neighborhood, though.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/07/13 1:45 am

But you're ok with cops having tanks and automatic weapons

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/07/13 1:47 am

Of course not. I think that's ridiculous, too. I was heated when the City said they didn't have enough to give EVERY cop a taser. They had enough for guns but not for tasers? Bullsh!t. Most have them now.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/08/13 12:35 am

Anything over a handgun?? What a silly comment. Handguns are both fun and useful!

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/08/13 4:14 am

The militarization of police is a problem. So why would I support it for a private security company?

JackTorS Clap you stupid bastards
07/06/13 11:44 pm

After reading a few articles and watching a few videos, the 'vipers' cater mostly to the folk that can afford them. Upper middle class, corporations, celebrities, film sets, VIP's... They also seem to be wearing military type BDU's that you seem to

JackTorS Clap you stupid bastards
07/06/13 11:46 pm

be so fond of. He has a different approach that seems to be working, but where is the accountability?

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/07/13 12:11 am

I don't care for the all black intimidation philosophy but that's quibbles at this point especially since he doesn't make anyone pay for his service.

The accountability is to the marketplace. He has an incentive to stay in business, unlike govt.

JackTorS Clap you stupid bastards
07/07/13 12:23 am

He doesn't make anyone pay? So, if all his clientele decided to stop paying, you think he would continue his services? How long you think he would stay in business?
The pro bono stuff is just a bone for the media. When it becomes fiscally impossible

JackTorS Clap you stupid bastards
07/07/13 12:24 am

for him to keep carrying the dead weight, he'll drop them like a hot potato.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/07/13 1:43 am

Agreed but many companies do charitable works because its good PR.

A cessation in services would be warranted. Better than what happens to me if I stop paying the ransom on my house.

JackTorS Clap you stupid bastards
07/07/13 11:42 am

Well, that's the point. How viable will this system really be? We're not talking about someone's car or residence; it could be life or death. And the response shouldn't depend on wether you're a paying customer or not.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/07/13 1:36 pm

Then call your brethren in Detroit and tell them to step it up.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/07/13 1:54 pm

He has thousands of paying customers and has been in business for 20 years. Business has spiked since DPD started cutting back their level of service.

JackTorS Clap you stupid bastards
07/07/13 2:02 pm

Again, he hasn't dabbled below the poverty line yet. Upper and upper middle class clientele.
He's going to stay in business serving the hundreds, perhaps thousands of people who can't afford him?
No way.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/07/13 2:06 pm

Funny thing is since he has to run a business and can't just take it from people he has to be cost efficient. He does provide services to those who are unable to pay.

JackTorS Clap you stupid bastards
07/07/13 2:15 pm

He can't accommodate everyone who can't pay. Period. Some are going to be left without protection.
Fatally flawed.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/07/13 4:30 pm

And the folks who live in bunfûck nowhere and have to rely on a 30 min response time from the sheriff? Aren't they essentially without protection? And honestly how much protecting do cops do in the bad parts of town.

JackTorS Clap you stupid bastards
07/07/13 7:40 pm

Every call gets answered, even in the 'bad' part of town. In my state, the average statewide response time is 8 minutes. That includes the extreme rural areas. This is still better than not affording protection from privatized security.

JackTorS Clap you stupid bastards
07/07/13 7:44 pm

The public system of policing is not perfect, however it is a better option for those who can barely afford to live, never mind pay for privatized police.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/06/13 11:00 pm

I really would like to hear from the no folks

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Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/06/13 11:39 pm

It isn't state-less. How can it be proof of concept?

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/06/13 11:43 pm

Because the biggest objection to a state less society is that these services can't be provided for by the free market followed by "but the poor people!" This is disproving that.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/06/13 11:47 pm

And maybe check out what "proof of CONCEPT" means

JackTorS Clap you stupid bastards
07/06/13 11:50 pm

Why don't we wait till this guy jumps knee deep in the inner cities and ghettos where everyone with an AK will shoot at them and no one can afford him.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
07/06/13 11:53 pm

That is the most common of many, many objections. Proof of concept for a state-less society is a small, working, state-less society. This is an example of how government can shrink, not proof that it can disappear.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/07/13 12:12 am

I see your point doopy, but it is something to be excited about. It's a step in the right direction.

Anarchy101 NAP
07/06/13 10:45 pm

Yes. Now just add competition so you get higher quality services/ lower prices.

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rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/06/13 10:51 pm

Yeah, I don't expect the nay Sayers to provide an argument, even though this is absolute proof that the market can handle government services.

Anarchy101 NAP
07/06/13 10:53 pm

Welcome to anarcho-capitalism. :)

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/06/13 10:58 pm

Not quite there but this is comforting

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/06/13 10:58 pm

I still need to see a model for courts. Also, where do services like TMC get authority to use force on people?

Anarchy101 NAP
07/06/13 11:03 pm

Uses of force generally tend to be bad for business. And the ideal agency would only use force if their customer claimed that their rights have been violated, not just use force wherever they see fit.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/06/13 11:05 pm

Agreed, but as I said, when they do, where do they derive that right from? If they come after me what obligation do I have to listen to them and what's stopping me from exercising my inherent right to self defense?

Anarchy101 NAP
07/06/13 11:08 pm

Have you heard of circle justice?

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/06/13 11:17 pm

Yes and outside of small communities I don't see how it would work. It's all fine and good on the reservations.

Processing On a journey to oneness.
07/07/13 7:00 am

Reb why do you listen to the state ran police force? Fear because the have a monopoly on it and aren't held accountable for use of force or something else?

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
07/06/13 10:44 pm

Nay Sayers, please enlighten me. It's a private police force that has paying customers and is even providing its service for low or no cost to low income families.

Processing On a journey to oneness.
07/07/13 6:59 am

Had a question about them a few weeks ago. Was hoping you would've seen it since I know the police force is one of your objections to An-cap society.