The Threat Management Center in Detroit is picking up the slack of the local police force that has drastically cut back service, despite demanding the same payment. Is this proof of concept for a state less society?
I voted no. I don't think that it is in a community's best interests (particularly in a state-less society) to hire a company to provide general security. Specific security for specific persons or immovable locations, perhaps.
But I don't believe that an employee of a private security company should be able to stop me on the street for any reason, nor to enter my property for any reason.
I see this as just another outsourcing of responsibility. Folks should be banding together in their communities to defend each other, and deter crimes. THAT is how you reduce crime long term with no real worries about damage to civil liberties.
Instill morals and virtue in the community's children, and teach them to love their neighbor. When folks care about their neighbors, they don't steal from them, rape them, or kill them.
I would gladly get rid of both the police and this guy. The answer to who watches the watchers was they shall watch themselves for we shall tell them the great lie that they are better than who they watch. That lie has failed. Police=street gangs
No basis for his authority. Any "arrest" he tried to make would be false by statute, and I would certainly defend myself vigorously against any illegal show of force he might try to make...
You just said it was obvious that private firms do things better?
They do, but anarchy is not better than civilization.
Who said anything about anarchy? Why do you always go there? Government doesn't have to be a 100% on or off thing, lets just turn this shît down to simmer for a while, you big govt folks have had your fun.
I would hardly describe myself as a big government person, I recognize that there are instances where government is necessary, but I believe those instances are limited.
Without having read anything other than what's posted here, my initial reaction is that it's too soon to tell.
One major concern is this: if you pay them $100 to protect you, what's to prevent them from taking $5000 from someone else to wander off for 5 min so he can shoot you?
Too soon? He's been in business for 20 years.
And what's stopping corruption amongst government police?
Elections are supposed to stop corruption - they don't always work, but at least there is a tool
How exactly do elections, financed by private campaign contributions (bribes) do anything to combat police corruption?
He's been providing free services to supplement the police force for 20 years? Or he's just been in private security for 20 years? Big difference.
He's been in business for 20 years, he's only seen a boom in sales since the gang of Detroit has started saying "f you" to the taxpayers.
Elections are at least a tool that CAN be used by people who are fed up with corruption to fight it. What tools are available to fight private corruption exactly?
Not doing business with them. They die. Simple.
Elections are a farce and are likely predetermined. In light of everything else that's come out it really wouldn't surprise me.
But if we are talking about a private security company and the big money is in on the corruption and they are providing the security to poor people for "free" how could they fire them
I would need more details, but I wouldn't trade the police for ANYTHING private. I think that's a dangerous area for entrepreneurs to be getting into.
But I'm all for a private security company lending their simple services to a dangerous neighborhood. Anything over a handgun and I wouldn't want them in my neighborhood, though.
But you're ok with cops having tanks and automatic weapons
Of course not. I think that's ridiculous, too. I was heated when the City said they didn't have enough to give EVERY cop a taser. They had enough for guns but not for tasers? Bullsh!t. Most have them now.
Anything over a handgun?? What a silly comment. Handguns are both fun and useful!
The militarization of police is a problem. So why would I support it for a private security company?
After reading a few articles and watching a few videos, the 'vipers' cater mostly to the folk that can afford them. Upper middle class, corporations, celebrities, film sets, VIP's... They also seem to be wearing military type BDU's that you seem to
be so fond of. He has a different approach that seems to be working, but where is the accountability?
I don't care for the all black intimidation philosophy but that's quibbles at this point especially since he doesn't make anyone pay for his service.
The accountability is to the marketplace. He has an incentive to stay in business, unlike govt.
He doesn't make anyone pay? So, if all his clientele decided to stop paying, you think he would continue his services? How long you think he would stay in business?
The pro bono stuff is just a bone for the media. When it becomes fiscally impossible
for him to keep carrying the dead weight, he'll drop them like a hot potato.
After all, that's capitalism.
Agreed but many companies do charitable works because its good PR.
A cessation in services would be warranted. Better than what happens to me if I stop paying the ransom on my house.
Well, that's the point. How viable will this system really be? We're not talking about someone's car or residence; it could be life or death. And the response shouldn't depend on wether you're a paying customer or not.
Then call your brethren in Detroit and tell them to step it up.
The concept is fatally flawed.
He has thousands of paying customers and has been in business for 20 years. Business has spiked since DPD started cutting back their level of service.
Again, he hasn't dabbled below the poverty line yet. Upper and upper middle class clientele.
He's going to stay in business serving the hundreds, perhaps thousands of people who can't afford him?
Funny thing is since he has to run a business and can't just take it from people he has to be cost efficient. He does provide services to those who are unable to pay.
He can't accommodate everyone who can't pay. Period. Some are going to be left without protection.
And the folks who live in bunfûck nowhere and have to rely on a 30 min response time from the sheriff? Aren't they essentially without protection? And honestly how much protecting do cops do in the bad parts of town.
Every call gets answered, even in the 'bad' part of town. In my state, the average statewide response time is 8 minutes. That includes the extreme rural areas. This is still better than not affording protection from privatized security.
The public system of policing is not perfect, however it is a better option for those who can barely afford to live, never mind pay for privatized police.
I really would like to hear from the no folks
It isn't state-less. How can it be proof of concept?
Because the biggest objection to a state less society is that these services can't be provided for by the free market followed by "but the poor people!" This is disproving that.
And maybe check out what "proof of CONCEPT" means
Why don't we wait till this guy jumps knee deep in the inner cities and ghettos where everyone with an AK will shoot at them and no one can afford him.
That is the most common of many, many objections. Proof of concept for a state-less society is a small, working, state-less society. This is an example of how government can shrink, not proof that it can disappear.
I see your point doopy, but it is something to be excited about. It's a step in the right direction.
Yes. Now just add competition so you get higher quality services/ lower prices.
Yeah, I don't expect the nay Sayers to provide an argument, even though this is absolute proof that the market can handle government services.
Welcome to anarcho-capitalism. :)
Not quite there but this is comforting
I still need to see a model for courts. Also, where do services like TMC get authority to use force on people?
Uses of force generally tend to be bad for business. And the ideal agency would only use force if their customer claimed that their rights have been violated, not just use force wherever they see fit.
Agreed, but as I said, when they do, where do they derive that right from? If they come after me what obligation do I have to listen to them and what's stopping me from exercising my inherent right to self defense?
Have you heard of circle justice?
Yes and outside of small communities I don't see how it would work. It's all fine and good on the reservations.
Reb why do you listen to the state ran police force? Fear because the have a monopoly on it and aren't held accountable for use of force or something else?
Nay Sayers, please enlighten me. It's a private police force that has paying customers and is even providing its service for low or no cost to low income families.
Had a question about them a few weeks ago. Was hoping you would've seen it since I know the police force is one of your objections to An-cap society.