Show of HandsShow of Hands

veritas1 July 6th, 2013 2:38am

Government loans to green energy technology companies.

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Vincere Seattle
07/05/13 10:14 pm

Money's cheap right now, green businesses can get a loan from private investors at a descent rate. No need to go to the government.

TopsQueen Oregon Coast
07/05/13 9:41 pm

The last time that happened it was a disaster.

thebob Medford Oregon
07/05/13 9:09 pm

The government does not produce and nor should they. The government is here to protect our country and our rights. Let the private sector take care of itself.

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TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
07/05/13 8:43 pm

I can give you about 60+ examples why it's been bad. There isn't a single success story, that I can find. This administration has flushed volumes of cash in the toilet.

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commonsense America isnt racist
07/05/13 8:32 pm

It seems like a waste to me. But I haven't researched the numbers.

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TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
07/05/13 8:46 pm

Evergreen Solar ($25 million)*
SpectraWatt ($500,000)*
Solyndra ($535 million)*
Beacon Power ($43 million)*
Nevada Geothermal ($98.5 million)
SunPower ($1.2 billion)
First Solar ($1.46 billion)
Babcock and Brown ($178 million)

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
07/05/13 8:48 pm

EnerDel’s subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)*
Amonix ($5.9 million)
Fisker Automotive ($529 million)
Abound Solar ($400 million)*
A123 Systems ($279 million)*
Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($700,981)*
Johnson Controls ($299 million)

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
07/05/13 8:49 pm

Brightsource ($1.6 billion)
ECOtality ($126.2 million)
Raser Technologies ($33 million)*
Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)*
Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million)*
Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsen’s Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million)*

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
07/05/13 8:50 pm

Range Fuels ($80 million)*
Thompson River Power ($6.5 million)*
Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)*
Azure Dynamics ($5.4 million)*
GreenVolts ($500,000)
Vestas ($50 million)
LG Chem’s subsidiary Compact Power ($151 million)

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
07/05/13 8:52 pm

Nordic Windpower ($16 million)*
Navistar ($39 million)
Satcon ($3 million)*
Konarka Technologies Inc. ($20 million)*
Mascoma Corp. ($100 million)

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
07/05/13 8:53 pm

*Denotes companies that have filed for bankruptcy.

The others are already bankrupt.

commonsense America isnt racist
07/05/13 9:02 pm

Wow. Although bankruptcy doesn't necessarily mean the company is closing, that's still pretty bad considering.
Good gravy that's a lot of money.

veritas1 Panda
07/05/13 9:05 pm

Of the 1/3-ish on that list that went filed for bankruptcy, the majority were bought and the technologies developed re-started again and are now growing companies. How many on your list are actually bankrupt right now?

veritas1 Panda
07/05/13 9:07 pm

Or defunct?

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
07/05/13 9:27 pm

All. This is the list of only the bankrupt and filed for bankrupt list. There are only two that I know of that have been bought and reworked, and they still aren't profitable.

veritas1 Panda
07/05/13 9:29 pm

No. I looked up a lot of the asterisk ones and there were at least 4 of the few I checked that were open and running at full steam.

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
07/05/13 9:30 pm

I'm not hanging this on anyone in particular. I'm just giving examples of how they keep blowing our money. It's all of them. Washington does not understand business. Democrat or Republican.

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
07/05/13 9:31 pm

Those still open are losing money. A lot. That's why they have filed.

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
07/06/13 7:23 am

I personally say, bring on alternatives, I agree we need to do something, not as a government that is deficit spending the dollar to oblivion, but as a people. Our government needs to worry about laws not "investments".

TiltonAllStarz Outside Ur Comfort Zone
07/06/13 7:26 am

They think dumping tons of money on something fixes problems, look at the public school system, how's that working? www.cato.org/blog/public-school-spending-theres-chart

JollyMan93 Big Sky Guy
07/05/13 8:11 pm

End corporate welfare!

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JollyMan93 Big Sky Guy
07/05/13 8:15 pm

Democrats complain all the time about big business yet on here it shows they're for our tax dollars to go to already rich ppl so they'll attempt to make greener energy. I believe in capitalism not corporatism

veritas1 Panda
07/05/13 8:18 pm

Loans and welfare are tow completely different things. And big banks and tech firms are two different things.

TomM
07/05/13 8:20 pm

The democrats are against it when it doesn't agree with their politics but for when it supports their politics. Republicans are the same, their customers are just different.

JollyMan93 Big Sky Guy
07/05/13 8:20 pm

Not really loans most of the time. Also what if that company fails? Like so many others have? Waste of our dollars

JollyMan93 Big Sky Guy
07/05/13 8:23 pm

Just let the market do its things

TomM
07/05/13 8:27 pm

There are loan programs for farmers and for the sugar industry, both supported by the republicans, I believe. I want to end it all, but they stay due to friends in congress who make deals to keep it all.

veritas1 Panda
07/05/13 8:28 pm

@Jolly. The question is about loans. And no investment bundle has a 100% success rate. The Solyndra one had a 95% success.

jonny323
07/05/13 8:29 pm

The market doing its thing is currently ruining our planet.

TomM
07/05/13 8:31 pm

How was the solyndra program 95% successful?

veritas1 Panda
07/05/13 8:49 pm

@TomM. No. The loan bundle Solyndra was a part of has a 5% default rate.

TomM
07/05/13 8:51 pm

Do you have a link to support that, I'd like to read that because I've only heard about defaults and similar issues.

aurealis the sky
07/05/13 8:04 pm

No, I don't think it's a good idea but I do believe there should be much more focus on going green.

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suppressedID keep Summer safe
07/05/13 8:00 pm

It's strategic: the military is already doing it.

Anyone who is against it is unAmerican and doesn't support the troops.

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dramaschick All ways in my head
07/05/13 8:02 pm

Are you being factious?

longhorn1 Kindocologist Hater
07/05/13 8:09 pm

Drama...how dare you question this...you commie!

dramaschick All ways in my head
07/05/13 8:17 pm

Get off my nuts longhorn I will destroy u. Dramatic... Maybe but I WILL destroy you

suppressedID keep Summer safe
07/06/13 7:06 am

Well, the military HAS made this a priority issue and DARPA is actively funding alternative - green - energy.

If it's important enough for them...

penmancubs
07/05/13 7:55 pm

Not currently no. When the clean energy market is larger than oil, gas, and coal, then it'd be smart.

TomM
07/05/13 8:01 pm

Then government loans are not needed. The private industry can fund this.

TomM
07/05/13 7:53 pm

Someone who claims to be a libertarian voted yes. Whoever you are, you have an identity question.

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TomM
07/05/13 7:51 pm

No government loans to anyone for any reason at any time.

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EagleOK Oklahoma
07/05/13 7:43 pm

Solyndra. 'Nuff said.

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veritas1 Panda
07/05/13 7:44 pm

Tesla. 'Nuff said.

dramaschick All ways in my head
07/05/13 7:42 pm

Our planet will out last all of us. Use the money else where

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aurealis the sky
07/05/13 7:55 pm

But what about those in the future? Should we just leave a planet shot to hell?

dramaschick All ways in my head
07/05/13 7:58 pm

No. But the earth is going to do what it's going to do regardless if the government is going to give out loans to the green people. I think that the whole green thing is a way to get consumers to spend more then they have to on products.

dramaschick All ways in my head
07/05/13 7:59 pm

If it was really important to save the earth then green products would be cheaper and more readily available. People are doing it for the money

suppressedID keep Summer safe
07/05/13 8:01 pm

The planet will survive but we may not.

You want to live in a waste dump?

dramaschick All ways in my head
07/05/13 8:03 pm

When people make it a priority to not liter, get a different mode of transportation, get rid of unnecessary plastic bags nothing is going to change. People don't care. It's so easy to just put something in the trash yet we still won't do it.

dramaschick All ways in my head
07/05/13 8:04 pm

People are choosing to live in a waste dump. When they decide they don't want to anymore then they will change. But no sooner then that

fourwinds box of rain
07/05/13 10:17 pm

You may have a point about freewill drama, which is why I am sometimes pessimistic that we will turn the tide on global warming before it's too late. However, I think there are also some flaws with your logic;

fourwinds box of rain
07/05/13 10:18 pm

first, the earth isn't simply going to "do what it's going to do"; humans are the ones causing these changes to the environment, thus it is our responsibility to do our best to reverse them.

fourwinds box of rain
07/05/13 10:19 pm

Second, green products are expensive partly because they are more expensive to make, and also partly because of supply and demand; if more people chose these alternative products, I believe they could probably be sold more cheaply.

PuppyLvr In love with Listgarten
07/05/13 7:40 pm

Government loans in general are a bad idea. It's not the government's job to interfere with the free market.

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veritas1 Panda
07/05/13 7:50 pm

Have you ever heard of mises.org?

TomM
07/05/13 7:56 pm

I looked it up. Says its the world centre for the Austrian school of economics and libertarian political and social theory.

PuppyLvr In love with Listgarten
07/05/13 7:57 pm

Libertarian stuff? Cool. What exactly do they do? Teach libertarian philosophies?

TomM
07/05/13 8:00 pm

I've never seen this site before, but it looks like it does. There's a lot of stuff. Looks pretty good to me.

suppressedID keep Summer safe
07/05/13 8:02 pm

Tell them to stay out of freeways and the trucking industry. If they had to bear the true costs, you'd never see another 18-wheeler.