Show of HandsShow of Hands

MrLucchese July 2nd, 2013 10:40pm

A controversial new law in China threatens to punish adults who do not regularly visit their elderly parents. The law requires family members to "often" visit living relatives over 60 years old. Is this somewhat reasonable or completely absurd?

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arussian
07/03/13 10:16 am

Hard choice: It would cut down on elderly suicide and save a lot of money, but you are forcing people to do it... I think awareness programs would perhaps be a little better... Not stepping on ppl that way. Not effective though

gatsbyxxv
07/03/13 9:41 am

I don't think a law would ever work. It takes more than a law for children to respect their parents. It is a great reminder however for those who do forget.

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ladyniner81 extremists are a cancer
07/03/13 7:33 am

what if your parents were abusive or neglectful?

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/03/13 7:59 am

As I pointed out, there are a great many issues with this legislation, that's certainly one of them.

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/03/13 7:59 am

One of many, many issues with the law.

xxreevisxx
07/03/13 6:31 am

I keep seeing responses about how "its their culture" - ok, I grant you that - but, to enact a law?!? Seriously!?!

It's also good to brush your teeth, but does that mean we should have a law to do so?!

xxreevisxx
07/03/13 6:32 am

Wait, I haven't read every last word of the ACA yet - maybe we already have that. =P

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/03/13 6:34 am

Haha! Well, if it were truly a part of their culture, there would be no need for a law...

LRM20 A Hoosier in Lincoln Land
07/03/13 6:16 am

The law is unreasonable, but the action is good. Just because something is good (or bad) doesn't mean it should be a law.

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/03/13 6:36 am

Very true. It's a suggestible action, but not an action to be dictated.

cato Santa Barbara, California
07/03/13 6:14 am

No one ever said communist governments make sense.

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/03/13 6:38 am

Actually, yes they have. If they hadn't, there would be no communist nations.

mac Oregon
07/03/13 5:47 am

While this is unreasonable in our culture, it is within their historical culture and heritage. Family, respect for ancestors has always anchored Asian people's.

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/03/13 6:40 am

That statement is based on antiquated views on the cultures of the Orient.

Diknak Ohio
07/03/13 5:06 am

It is shocking that so many people voted reasonable. This is the highest form of government policing you. This is thought/emotion policing. If you voted reasonable, I really hope that you never vote in actual elections.

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/03/13 6:34 am

They were voting reasonable based on China's supposed "cultural background."

minnema Minneapolis MN
07/03/13 3:25 am

You can't legislate morality..... or familial loyalty.

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ATLChefCB
07/03/13 12:40 am

How are they gonna make sure you follow the law? Do your parents have to sign an hours sheet for you?!?!

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/03/13 12:46 am

I'm unsure of complete details, but if you read the article at the very bottom, it's quite detailed.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/03/13 12:13 am

If my kids/grandkids don't *want* to visit me & spend time w/me, the *last* thing I'd want would be to endure their resentful presence. Pass a law to require them to financially support, if you just *have* to meddle, but screw *forced* visits!

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/03/13 12:32 am

Very, very well worded. Great perspective. You should definitely consult the Chinese leaders on it, haha! :D

Nukimo NC Dreaming of Far Away
07/03/13 3:49 am

Ii totally agree w/MrL. Excellent comment ellen especially regarding the financial support. I was just going to show older relatives view of "Don't make me deal w/those ungratefull little terds again.!.." You said it much more eloquently than I !

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/03/13 4:45 am

Grandparents unite? Lol! It's how I feel; pleased you appreciate how I worded it. :-)

louanne Westland
07/03/13 6:11 am

You shouldn't have kids if you expect them to take care of you. Physically or financially. I think it's wrong to give up your life for any person. Taking care of a sick old person is just that. We all die its better to embrace it now in your youth.

kylievb317 California
07/02/13 11:20 pm

The fact that they would be forced to do it kinda defeats the whole purpose... They should have the compassion AND free will to visit if they want.

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 11:30 pm

Exactly. It should be out of love.

persuader
07/02/13 11:10 pm

The principle is worthy. A law to force this type of desired behavior does not make sense.
It would be best if individuals would be encouraged and persuaded to love and serve those who are their living ancestors, rather than forcing.

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 11:30 pm

They are persuaded if they love the person. Forcing them would only make they do it because they have to, not because they want to...

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
07/03/13 12:15 am

... and one risks the higher potential of "early demise" so kids can get back to their selfish, self-centered lives w/o the imposition.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/02/13 11:04 pm

It is reasonable because of their culture. The husband usually supports his and his spouse's parents. It would seem foreign to us, but government doesn't throw SS and Medicare at them like we do. Family supports their elders.

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 11:28 pm

It depends. Their culture is evolving as their economy does. They don't have they same family values that they once did.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/03/13 12:27 am

There is still less state support than support that is expected to come from the son though, correct? That's the only reason I would see it as reasonable.

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/03/13 12:31 am

That's true, but forcing someone to "provide emotional support" for a family member is reasonable? They're not doing it because they want to...

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/03/13 12:42 am

Oh I don't know, maybe. It's a different world. It should be encouraged, but I'm not sure about required. Probably a good way to boost health and lower costs, though.

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/03/13 12:48 am

These people aren't being physically or medically abused, per say. These laws are all about controlling the population and forcing them to do something, regardless of whether or not it makes sense - in my opinion.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/03/13 12:50 am

Well, it's not like controlling is something that's new to them. Sure it doesn't show a departure from the controlling nature of the government, but it's something that's a lot more positive than some other things they can, and have, come up with.

BeachSt Coastal Virginia
07/03/13 12:52 am

For example, forcing people to move, the child thing, labor conditions, tv, Internet. At least taking care of your parents is something that is positive, in my view. I can see how people would be dead set against something like this, though.

Gunfighter
07/02/13 11:01 pm

The government shouldn't have to force you to be a good person.

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 11:09 pm

It has nothing to do with being a good person or not. There are so many extenuating circumstances which apply to why a person wouldn't visit their parents.

Mattwall1
07/02/13 10:51 pm

Only because of the situation does it make any sense

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 10:58 pm

Would you mind elaborating?

akrealist a log cabin in the woods
07/02/13 10:32 pm

I find it a tad ironic (and yes, absurd) that a culture which all but encourages baby girls to be left in orphanages and doorways, if not worse, would insist on parental visits. Apparently, in China, family obligation and loyalty is selective.

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 10:58 pm

This was definitely one of the best comments. Kudos!

akrealist a log cabin in the woods
07/02/13 11:36 pm

Thanks Mr. M...near and dear to my heart as my niece was a throw-away daughter of China. In my mind, a government that would passively support such inhumanity as that does not deserve the benefit of the doubt in this scenario.

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 11:40 pm

Wow, I'm glad she made it out of that situation. Thanks for sharing your personal experience. I completely agree. So many people are citing, "cultural beliefs," but beliefs are rather twisted in many ways.

knittin
07/02/13 10:32 pm

While we should all make an effort to visit older relatives, making it law seems ridiculous. Don't they have enough already?

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 10:57 pm

They have more than enough, especially in China. Why not add more (being totally sarcastic)?

nickanator48 wisconsin
07/02/13 10:06 pm

That is the dumbest law I've ever heard

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aquartistjames Norman, OK
07/02/13 9:56 pm

Considering that this is probably rooted in enforcing cultural/traditional values more than in any practical considerations, I'm gonna go with absurd.

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 10:56 pm

It's rooted in governmental control more than anything else, really.

deosil WA
07/02/13 9:51 pm

Sometimes the parent is a jerk or was abusive so why should a kid be forced to visit. And on the other hand the kid could B a jerk and maybe the parent is glad they're not around. If u have good parents and don't visit as often as possible ur a jerk

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 10:55 pm

There are a great many circumstances which could prevent them from visiting, but I understand your point!

deosil WA
07/02/13 11:03 pm

Yeah I get that some people have circumstances that prevent visiting their parents often. I just think when you can, you should. I share a place with my mom. So I get a steady dose of mom ALL the time:/ I'm thankful to have her though.

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 11:08 pm

Ha!
Yeah, you definitely should. It sucks to think about, but all of our times will come...

vaticancameo Maryland
07/02/13 9:33 pm

It would lighten the load for civil servants like nurses and social workers, not to mention improve the morale of those who may be lonely/depressed. However, a government-enforced punishment system sounds severely flawed and unfair.

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 9:43 pm

It's a nice thought with very little potential for fairness or justice.

bbk teacher of math
07/02/13 9:22 pm

Reasonable in Chinese culture.

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centexken Republic of Texas
07/02/13 9:17 pm

So how does this work? Do the children sign forms stating they have visited their parents? How is the visit verified?

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 9:19 pm

I'm not quite sure, actually. I believe it's word of mouth more than anything. There is a link at the bottom of all of the comments that you can read for more details. :)

sydwel
07/02/13 8:59 pm

It's the right thing to do morally, but totally inappropriate as a law.

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sydwel
07/02/13 9:03 pm

But I do understand its a cultural thing

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 9:18 pm

It's NOT a cultural thing... Their culture has become increasingly westernized. If it were a culture thing, why would they have to legally mandate it?

sydwel
07/02/13 9:41 pm

It's stems from a cultural belief that elders deserve the utmost respect... Laws were put in place in an attempt to preserve that aspect of culture, whether rightly or wrongly.

musicfreak Loving Life
07/02/13 8:45 pm

You should never have to visit someone. How much does it really mean if someone is only visiting you because it is the law. Plus what if they were horrible parents???

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 9:00 pm

It certainly doesn't mean nearly as much! The law just doesn't make sense beyond the fact that it's a nice idea...

potatochip howdy
07/02/13 8:42 pm

It's mostly just saddening that they don't already visit their elderly parents. That being said, the Chinese are still a great people, longest continuous civilization in history.

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 8:59 pm

Everyone has a reason, whether it's a good one or not.

FrozenPhoton Behind the Shadows
07/02/13 8:42 pm

It is a good idea, but a law? A bit much say I

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cluney
07/02/13 8:13 pm

In communist countries whatever they tell you better be reasonable or you lose a hand.

jmw7477 Indiana
07/02/13 7:59 pm

What if you don't have a relationship with that person? Both my husband & myself were raised by people other than our biological parents. So, we'd visit those people instead of our biological parents.

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 8:03 pm

One of my many thoughts on the matter. It's just not reasonable, in my opinion, to expect such.

DirCat Tuscaloosa, Alabama
07/02/13 7:52 pm

IIRC, family names come before personal names in China, which supposedly shows they value family more than the individual.

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 8:01 pm

Traditionally. Today's China is becoming increasingly more westernized.

HayleyS looking up.
07/02/13 7:20 pm

What if your parents want nothing to do with you? Like they do not want you to visit. So then you would be punished for following your parents wishes?

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 7:33 pm

Exactly! There are so many factors which have to be taken into account...
This isn't fair by any means, regardless of what their cultural beliefs used to be entail.

MissN The Experiment
07/02/13 7:20 pm

Forcing people to do things, even if you believe it to be right, is not right. It's their decision based on their individual relationship with their family.

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 7:32 pm

Absolutely! Unfortunately, the Chinese people accept this type of governing. /:

How are you, MissN? :)

MissN The Experiment
07/02/13 8:00 pm

Good, good, other than I can't get Nizabelle to guess on my 2 truths, 1 lie post to reveal the answer *pout* ..but got the caps back in the sn =D How are you, MrLucchese?

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 8:10 pm

I can't change my name back! )':

You could always just tell me your answer. (;

I'm alright, I suppose... Thanks, lovely. :)

MissN The Experiment
07/02/13 8:23 pm

Tony said you can try changing it to something else and changing it back with the caps to see if that works =)
..or you can hound her for me, so she gets her a** on it ASAP..
What would make it better, MrLucchese?

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 8:29 pm

I'll try my best to. ;P She's very strong minded, we know that one. ;) I'll comment the link to it from dawl's profile! That might motivate her.
Thank you for telling me about the username, too!

MissN The Experiment
07/02/13 8:36 pm

I've only left one reply about it when she wasn't here, she probably hasn't seen it, caught up with all the excitement that comes with commenting =p
I bet bringing back your caps would make your day!..

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 8:41 pm

They're back! That helps a bit, I guess! I had a friend attempt suicide earlier today so I am a bit rattled by that, but I'm just trying to keep distracted.

MissN The Experiment
07/02/13 8:46 pm

How did you find out =o

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 8:57 pm

Her family called me. She tried to overdose but her parents caught her and rushed her to the emergency room. I have been there for her for the past few years... She's always felt comfortable talking to me about anything since I was one of the only

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 8:58 pm

one who didn't judge her since she has minor anorexia. I couldn't believe it... I still can't... I'm so glad she didn't succeed. Anyway, yeah, that was my concern for today...

MissN The Experiment
07/02/13 9:13 pm

Oo I see, I'm glad you are there for her. It says a lot about you when not only she but her family comes to you about it. Why can't you believe it? Sometimes, it's good to not succeed at certain things. SOH is such a good place to vent =)..

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 9:17 pm

Why can't I believe it? She didn't even talk to me about it at all... I should have known.

MissN The Experiment
07/02/13 9:24 pm

I thought you meant you couldn't believe she had minor anorexia at first.. it's tough to know with such an unpredictable situation. I know I'm suppose to distract you, whoops, not doing it very well..

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 9:26 pm

Nizabelle just asked a question... It's time to get the distracting started. ;) ❤ Thank you so much for listening to my complaint.

MissN The Experiment
07/02/13 11:01 pm

You're welcome =) ..just so you know, I'm good as a distraction as well.

KimberlyT717
07/02/13 7:18 pm

Get used to it people. This is where we are headed.

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 7:29 pm

No it won't be. It would never happen here, as long as rebelfury is alive.

FemmeAdamWest in the Tardis library
07/02/13 7:56 pm

Oh I get it... Comedy.

dustbunny
07/02/13 7:12 pm

Any law that dictates how people live their lives is absurd. What if the relative was an abuser in any way? What if I am the closest relative and got stuck having to visit this person I barely knew growing up?
Too much government control is bad.

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 7:16 pm

Yes, it is. China traditionally has a greater respect for elders and a large amount of government control, but that has changed drastically since their economy has changed.

lesil Colorado
07/02/13 7:10 pm

My dad says that the law isn't really enforceable; in their culture, they're trying to shame people for not visiting their parents. If the law was in the US it would be ridiculous. I still feel like there are better ways to make people feel guilty

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 7:14 pm

I agree. If they're not visiting their parents, there is obviously a reason, or there are multiple... Whether they're good reasons or not.

kjos USA
07/02/13 7:09 pm

We will jail you if you do not visit your parents so you can't visit your parents.

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 7:13 pm

Haha! I don't believe the punishment is jail time, but that's very funny!

jordanjerrett Lancaster Wisconsin
07/02/13 6:55 pm

It's a great idea, but a law for it and punishment if you don't visit? That's ridiculous.

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 6:58 pm

They are punishing people for not providing "emotional support."

curly
07/02/13 6:52 pm

It's a reasonable opinion to hold, and a good thing to do...But It's RIDICULOUS to make it a law!

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rbrown Kansas
07/02/13 6:45 pm

Now THIS is government over reach! I hope it embarrasses those who claim the same of a government that requires most of us to qualify for health care.

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 6:52 pm

One of many issues with the Chinese government. They're very good at their controlling, though.

Brrrrrrrrr
07/02/13 6:41 pm

They are beginning to reap the rewards of their one child policy, as a young couple will have to take care of their child, plus 4-12 elders, depending on how long their parents and grandparents survive. A similar fate awaits our nation's black people

Brrrrrrrrr
07/02/13 6:42 pm

as abortion pushes their fertility rate lower and lower.

curly
07/02/13 6:53 pm

Interesting observation.

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 7:00 pm

Umm... Interesting. I don't see a relevant connection.

lesil Colorado
07/02/13 7:07 pm

I don't know who the abortion comment is about, but low fertility rates are great, especially for China :)

bluwtrman florida
07/02/13 6:41 pm

For their culture, it is totally reasonable. Change the culture and it becomes either unreasonable or ridiculous.

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 6:50 pm

Even in their culture there is great backlash.

gjb2779
07/02/13 6:35 pm

Couldn't that get hairy if you have parents who were abusive or didn't raise you?

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 6:50 pm

Yes, absolutely. That's one of many reasons it's absurd, in my opinion.

Think Lovin Life
07/02/13 6:30 pm

It is reasonably absurd, and more importantly, it represents a sad fact about the disillusion of the extended family.

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paidert1 Columbus, Ohio
07/02/13 6:24 pm

It's an unreasonable law. I think people need to care more for their elderly parents, tho. Not to be crass, but I told my mom.. You wiped my butt when I was little; I'll wipe yours when you're old. It's morally right but you can't legislate morality.

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 6:27 pm

It is certainly a good thing to do, but there are a great many extraneous circumstances which render such an action to be unnecessary and not immoral.

paidert1 Columbus, Ohio
07/02/13 6:44 pm

Oh yes... I'm sure you are right. People whose parents were awful.. Etc. I'm simply referring to those who are just callous or lazy. You know?

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 6:49 pm

I suppose so. There are quite a few other circumstances why they may not be able to, but I understand your point.

rcgrant south carolina
07/02/13 6:24 pm

to make it a law it out there but
I do think we should not neglect our elders they sacrificed things for our sake now it is our time
to give a little of ourselves to visit anf if needed pitch in to make their life better

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 6:27 pm

Not all parents are good parents. Not all parents are the ones that raise their children.

rcgrant south carolina
07/02/13 6:33 pm

parents not raising their kids... great point.. maybe because they lost their since of family by not being raised with the emphasis on family... sounds like china is forcing the family values at one level

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 7:01 pm

China has lost connections with their former family-centric culture. Now they are increasingly westernized in their economic and family beliefs.

dudley northern Virginia woods
07/02/13 6:24 pm

It's china. There's a long long tradition of respect for elders. Even ancestor worship. They probably and understandably fear the loss of old traditions that hold the society together .

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 6:30 pm

That has completely changed and become increasingly westernized as their economy began leaning towards capitalism.

stevetinfc Oregon
07/02/13 6:24 pm

Should be done out of love, not of the law! That being said, I do cling to God's law of "Honor your father and mother"

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CTYankee!!! Connecticut
07/02/13 6:29 pm

It is China. Most aren't christian

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 6:31 pm

Most are either Buddhist or Confucian (which is more a school of thought than a religious philosophy).

mikeey1962 on SOH where else
07/02/13 6:21 pm

This is wild to hear ,, i remember hearing that china really cherished they're elderly, .. Guess it changed

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MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/02/13 6:24 pm

As their economic policies and ideals have changed, so have the other aspects of their lives.