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Show Of Hands July 1st, 2013 3:06pm

A couple is indicted. They want to hire the best available (and expensive) attorneys to defend themselves, but prosecutors want to freeze all financial assets that they believe were acquired through profits from the crime. Pick a side.

Accused pair Prosecutors
130 Liked

Comments: Add Comment

bballard92 taste the rainbow
07/07/13 1:45 pm

Innocent until proven guilty. They should be able to use the money until it's rightfully proven to be illegally obtained.

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tdaddy diversity
07/08/13 1:58 am

Yep. Absolutely.

jhill303 Right Here
07/06/13 12:43 pm

Know the law, innocent until proven guilty. If that money is dirty, the couple will have to pay it back regardless.

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shemmes dc
07/05/13 10:38 pm

everyone is innocent until proven guilty

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wingman646 Jacksonville
07/05/13 5:07 pm

Innocent until proven guilty. This is just another governmental overreach in action.

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ProbablyEug Oakland
07/05/13 8:42 am

More money shouldn't mean a greater chance at innocence. Freeze their funds and give them a public attorney.

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coloradical Vote or Shut Up
07/05/13 7:57 am

Agree with jhug. Innocent until proven guilty.

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Jayseph Wasatch Front
07/05/13 3:36 am

I believe it is still innocent until proven guilty or, did I get that backwards?

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libvation South Carolina
07/03/13 8:43 pm

I think the key thing here is that they 'believe' they were acquired through crime. If they haven't been convicted, then there is no proof and they cannot rightfully freeze the financial assets of a couple that's innocent until proven guilty.

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jhug District 12
07/03/13 5:59 am

innocent until Provence guilty
right to an attorney.

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keabrook Los Angeles
07/02/13 7:03 pm

Despite the fact that I feel that the prosecutors are correct, being innocent and proven guilty would prevent the freeze from occurring

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Trent296 The Capital Wasteland
07/02/13 1:48 pm

innocent until proven guilty

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sailrealvty Downtown
07/02/13 11:13 am

Innocent until proven guilty.

Hold attorney's fees in an account.

When verdict comes down you know who gets the $$$.

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clibby
07/02/13 10:11 am

Innocent until proven guilty, they are innocent now so they should not be able to freeze assets

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gatsbyxxv
07/02/13 9:16 am

Innocent until proven guilty otherwise prosecutor has unfair advantage.

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UnknownVarial3le Madness
07/02/13 5:50 am

Innocent until proven guilty. In the event they are found guilty, then the money would THEN be confiscated. The accused couple would then be forced to pay back the lawyer with whatever funds are left.

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wabajaber1 Bible Belt
07/02/13 5:01 am

So according to everyone's logic here we also shouldn't hold accused criminals in detention while awaiting trial? Aaron Hernandez would love this thread. Freezing and confiscating are different, and no one pays lawyers up front. If found innocent...

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wabajaber1 Bible Belt
07/02/13 5:02 am

You get all the $ back and can pay your lawyers. If found guilty as much $ as possible can be returned to the victim.

MericaRules
07/02/13 4:23 am

Innocent until proven guilty. End of story. How can he seize an innocent persons assets? That would certainly have some backsides but that's the most key part of our justice system.

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wabajaber1 Bible Belt
07/02/13 5:03 am

Do you know the difference between seize and freeze?

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
07/02/13 12:24 am

Unless the prosecutors can prove to a judge that they money came from criminal activity, then they have to be innocent until proven guilty.

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shellybaxter1234 Peaceful Place
07/01/13 10:26 pm

Whichever us legal in there state

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JohnnyBraska Nebraska
07/01/13 9:43 pm

Senario: You are 6 months from retirement. A con man takes your life savings. He is caught and taken to trial. Since he is innocent until proven guilty he blows your entire life savings on his own defense. He is convicted and sentenced to 10 yrs. Is that fair to the person who was conned.

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tech24073
07/02/13 12:30 am

That would suck, and you are that it is not fair. But the judicial system would not be the one being unfair, the criminal is. If we want to cherish the idea of innocent until proven guilty, we have to take the risks that go with it.

tech24073
07/02/13 12:32 am

If we start going "half way" we will loose one of the most valuable rights and beliefs that truly protects our freedoms as a whole.

MericaRules
07/02/13 4:24 am

Sometimes life is simply unfair. If life was 100% fair then we wouldn't be having a trial in the first place.

JohnnyBraska Nebraska
07/02/13 11:09 am

we wont start going half way. The way things already work is the prosecutor presents his evidence to the judge that the money was obtained illegaly. The defense has it's say in the matter. The judge then makes a decision on whether or not to freeze part or all of the money. If frozen it is

JohnnyBraska Nebraska
07/02/13 11:13 am

usually transfered to a neutral account where both parties can see that it is there still. The prosecuter doesn't just get to say freeze the accounts he has to show enough evidence for the presiding judge to deem it necessary.

itsbread Southern California
07/01/13 9:37 pm

Let them use the money in their account. If it is found to be gotten illegally, then they cover the defense AND the prosecutions' legal fees with all money left after the stolen money is returned.

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monkees19 New Jersey
07/01/13 9:19 pm

Innocent until proven guilty

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stageman99 State of Jefferson.
07/01/13 9:16 pm

If the funds can be proven to be illicit, by all means freeze them.

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dabrat East Coast
07/01/13 9:01 pm

Let them get public defenders, they have law degrees.

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jacmcmaho
07/01/13 8:09 pm

They haven't proven it yet

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pinballxpert
07/01/13 7:51 pm

"BELIVE", did anyone else hear that.

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FrozenPhoton Behind the Shadows
07/01/13 7:20 pm

innocent until proven guilty...
That answers it for me...

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TalkingNinja Texas
07/01/13 7:13 pm

innocent until proven guilty... nuf said

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mcdkm Houston
07/01/13 7:03 pm

They shouldn't be able to benefit from the fruits of a crime but there needs to be a hearing and the prosecutor needs to provide convincing evidence of where the funds came from.

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Cluricaun
07/01/13 6:58 pm

Ok, let me dissent. 20 year old highschool dropout and his baby-mama, with no job, deal drugs and murder a rival drug dealer. No income OTHER than drug funds. Huge house, expensive cars, (did I mention NO job?). I say freeze the assests. Please comment.

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studlies idaho
07/01/13 7:39 pm

He's still a citizen, still innocent until proven guilty.

leader77 California
07/01/13 9:19 pm

Sounds like a pretty strong case for the baby-mama.

studlies idaho
07/02/13 5:11 am

Or maybe he's a trust fund baby. Maybe he's Justin Beiber's best bud. Never assume you know the whole story.

ssmcrorvr
07/03/13 3:12 pm

attorney. its all just allegations until that judge or jury says otherwise. the government just stealing from the
dealers anyways. idc about drug dealers, the government created them its their problem we have to pay for it.

CzarCastic
07/01/13 6:55 pm

Money can buy you out of almost anything. To deny a person that is like not having a fair trial

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Marksmithdawg California
07/01/13 6:54 pm

Innocent until proven guilty, we don't usually take that seriously but we should.

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CoffeeWhite
07/01/13 7:56 pm

I second this comment

bt09 Fan District
07/01/13 9:11 pm

Agree 100%

LGBT
07/02/13 1:06 am

Agree 100%
I may not like it in this case, but it is our legal system..

sltydgx Missouri
07/01/13 6:12 pm

Innocent till proven guilty!

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firekitty1327 Wisconsin
07/01/13 6:10 pm

it's their money until they're proven guilty

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wabajaber1 Bible Belt
07/01/13 5:56 pm

Any one here know what indicted means? Anyone? Didn't think so.

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studlies idaho
07/01/13 7:52 pm

Means the grand jury approved prosecution. Not that you are guilty, simply that you are accused. I have been on a grand jury.

wabajaber1 Bible Belt
07/02/13 4:53 am

Now that we have that cleared up, do we know the difference between freezing assets and confiscating assets?

studlies idaho
07/02/13 5:09 am

Yes, what is the point you wish to make?

wabajaber1 Bible Belt
07/03/13 9:30 am

That this has nothing to do with innocent until proven guilty and that the level of thinking on SOH is pretty low.

wmfocker
07/01/13 5:39 pm

Innocent til proven guilty people, plain and simple. Shouldn't have right to freeze assets until convicted of the crime. No exception to their rights.

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CoffeeWhite
07/01/13 7:57 pm

I second this comment

cowboy Come on, man
07/01/13 5:18 pm

Innocent until proven guilty.

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icpshootyz
07/01/13 4:57 pm

"freezing" assets can be done before proven guilt. I vote with the prosecutors. They can still get legal council.

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ssmcrorvr
07/03/13 3:14 pm

yes, freezing assets. another way the government bullies people. and if they get a shitty enough lawyer we
get to keep their assets also. win win for the gov.

jtg721
07/01/13 4:55 pm

Right to an attorney.

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carleyvo Anywhere But Here
07/01/13 4:35 pm

Innocent until proven guilty.

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pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
07/01/13 4:15 pm

Innocent until guilt is proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and a conviction is given by a jury of one's peers.

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libertarian182 Virginia
07/01/13 4:12 pm

Innocent until proven guilty.

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SugarShaq
07/01/13 4:10 pm

Prosecutors didn't ask to freeze all of their assets, only those alleged to have been taken through crime. Bet if you were the person they stole it from your view would change.

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b4mytime Orange County, CA
07/01/13 4:20 pm

I considered this, but then I realized it gives too much power to prosecutors. What's to stop one from accusing someone of obtaining ALL his/her wealth through fraud? Then that person would have no funds to hire an attorney...

iceman1717
07/01/13 4:29 pm

Too much power for the prosecutor, hmmm. A prosecutor must provide every aspect of his case to the defense. The defense does not. A prosecutor must convince 12 people beyond a doubt, the defense only needs to put 1 shred of doubt into 1 juror.

b4mytime Orange County, CA
07/01/13 4:33 pm

Yes yes I see your point. But I meant before the case even starts...let's say I'm a prosecutor who has a personal vendetta against someone. I also happen to know that the public defenders in my district are of the lowest quality... (continued)

b4mytime Orange County, CA
07/01/13 4:35 pm

Now I can claim that the person acquired his wealth illegally, forcing that person to go with the public defender. My false charges would easily be disproven by a competent defense lawyer, but I've manipulated it so that I'm up against the worst.

b4mytime Orange County, CA
07/01/13 4:38 pm

How about this compromise...for the grand jury hearing, the accused may use the funds to hire any attorney. But once indicted, the assets are frozen?

b4mytime Orange County, CA
07/01/13 4:39 pm

Now that I think about it, I suppose that's the original question...maybe I should change my answer. Didn't realize they've already been indicted.

iceman1717
07/01/13 4:47 pm

Lots of good thoughts there. Upon seizure notification, the defendant needs only file to get the money/assets back. If he/she can show that the money was lawfully made, he/she gets it back. Pay stubs, bank records etc... Rarely able to prove though.

studlies idaho
07/01/13 7:54 pm

The accused is not normally present for the grand jury trial.

Bankai In God we still trust
07/01/13 3:32 pm

Innocent until PROVEN guilty!

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funkypetridish
07/01/13 3:26 pm

It's called presumption of innocence... But it's not always fair.

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Jungle in the dog house
07/01/13 3:17 pm

If thy haven't been convicted then their assets shouldn't be frozen.

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Vincere Seattle
07/01/13 2:58 pm

Innocent until proven guilty.

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cbbfle Nashville, TN
07/01/13 3:03 pm

You should check the most liked before commenting.

Vincere Seattle
07/01/13 3:07 pm

Ironic, usually I'm the jerk saying that to someone else. Karma, I guess.

cbbfle Nashville, TN
07/02/13 6:41 am

Eh, we all slip up.

Fiftysiete California
07/01/13 2:54 pm

If its that clear that they committed the crime it shouldn't matter to the DA who the other attorney is. Plus might as well have them not put more strain on a public defender if they don't need to

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iceman1717
07/01/13 2:42 pm

A couple thoughts. First, asset seizure is a civil proceeding, not criminal. Thus the threshold is a mere preponderance, not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Second, a guy robs a bank and then uses the funds stolen for his defense... R U kidding!!!!

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indigobleu dog taxi
07/01/13 3:38 pm

Or someone like a Bernie Madoff.

andrew2052 New York
07/01/13 2:24 pm

Innocent until proven guilty. ( in most cases)

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