Show of HandsShow of Hands

YouWantMeToPay July 1st, 2013 1:32pm

Cure a chronic illness, you have a customer only once. Treat a chronic illness, you have a customer for life. Yes?

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JackTorS SOH Flounder
07/01/13 9:02 pm

Cold Fusion. It was denounced and ridiculed by the scientific community as pathological science with no real data to back it up. The two scientists were denied patents and were basically laughed out of the scientific community.
Fast forward 20 years

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JackTorS SOH Flounder
07/01/13 9:15 pm

and it is discovered that data used to discredit this discovery had been falsified. Experiments were being conducted all around the world although they were calling it 'low energy nuclear reactions' rather than 'cold fusion'.
Fleischmann and Pons

JackTorS SOH Flounder
07/01/13 9:18 pm

were vindicated, however they lost legal control of their discovery to the powers that be.
This is why I'm skeptical of any big organization that has billions to lose by doing the one thing they were sanctioned to do.

susanr Colorado
07/01/13 8:58 pm

They've known for a long time that naked mole rats don't get cancer. Nobody knew why, but more than a few scientists have been looking at this phenomenon... because they want to HELP. Now they think they know why the mole rats don't get cancer.

Zod Above Pugetropolis
07/01/13 8:45 pm

I think there is more potential profit in a long term treatment than there might be in a cure. I doubt anyone would suppress a cure in the interest of profit, but I could see the focus of research funding being on the more profitable avenue.

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susanr Colorado
07/01/13 3:16 pm

jewelster - Would you like to ask this question of more people? I'd be happy to re-post it to my followers, in your name. That usually gets a person a few more followers, too. I'll stay out of the discussion after I introduce you. Let me know.

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YouWantMeToPay ... for THIS
07/01/13 7:59 pm

Sure, by all means, go right ahead.

susanr Colorado
07/01/13 8:13 pm

Done. I'm assuming you'll be taking part in the discussion, but if not, it will help people follow you if you drop by & leave a comment so they can just tap on your name.

mikeey1962 on SOH where else
07/01/13 2:57 pm

Lost my wife to cancer, the doctor cured her cancer with the worst chemo there is, a month later they found it on her liver, 6 months later she was gone.. All because the were looking at her X-ray and the spot they found was actually two, one behind

mikeey1962 on SOH where else
07/01/13 2:59 pm

The other.. So I guess it's my wife's fault for not being cured, the doctor couldn't have taken a side view... Yep they treated he alright..

ShereKhan A very dark place.
07/01/13 12:37 pm

There would not be a WHO

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RJ1969 SoCal
07/01/13 10:52 am

Some comments insinuate that a conspiracy exists, that people choose chronic treatment over cures. This is nonsense.

We try and find the best way to treat the condition. It's just that it is so complicated and we are relatively new to this game.

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RJ1969 SoCal
07/01/13 10:48 am

Safety. Efficacy.

These are the requirements for any and all sanctioned medical treatments. You either properly demonstrate both or you do not receive approval. Period. People do not get to make up their own rules because they feel like it.

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RJ1969 SoCal
07/01/13 10:49 am

The only reason why any treatment is considered "alternative" is because it has not demonstrated safety and efficacy in properly designed studies.

Tony ✋🏻SOH Founder
07/01/13 7:40 am

I'm a pretty skeptical guy in general, but I can't believe that there is a widespread effort to keep people sick where there really cures available. Way too many people would have to be evil, and in a coordinated way.

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YouWantMeToPay ... for THIS
07/01/13 8:34 am

We have a doctor here who the FDA has attempted to indict 6 times, unsuccessfully, for his antineoplastic treatment of cancer, saying his methods are unconventional and "not proven" as treatment... even though he has supporters who've been cured.

YouWantMeToPay ... for THIS
07/01/13 8:35 am

That have testified before congress on his behalf.

Just another sumthin, sumthin to make you go... hmmmmmm?

Tony ✋🏻SOH Founder
07/01/13 8:44 am

Yeah I do agree that the FDA uses gestapo-like tactics to control drugs and approved treatments. The costs of new drug approval is ludicrous. I don't think it's profit motivated though - just an example of a bloated, inefficient bureaucracy.

susanr Colorado
07/01/13 9:08 am

That man has never shown through any scientific study that he actually cures anything. Yes, I know there are testimonials. That is not scientific evidence. People also die under his "care."

YouWantMeToPay ... for THIS
07/01/13 9:17 am

?
They were diagnosed as "terminal", the cancer was eradicated under his treatment, and they testified through congress on his behalf.
The FDA confiscated his treatment, patented it so it couldn't be touched or used.

susanr Colorado
07/01/13 9:20 am

That's because he has never conducted a legitimate scientific study. You can't just let anybody use any treatment they want on people (charging them massive amounts of money, too) without an unbiased study. Some people termed "terminal" do get...

susanr Colorado
07/01/13 9:21 am

..better, without treatment.

susanr Colorado
07/01/13 9:28 am

If the man would just follow standard protocol he would have the opportunity to demonstrate that his treatment works. But he hasn't, over several decades. Testimonials are simply not sufficient. Where did you see that the FDA patented his treatments?

YouWantMeToPay ... for THIS
07/01/13 9:29 am

From what I know, he's highly renown for his work, and for some "crazy" reason has acronyms behind his name to confirm his credibility.

susanr Colorado
07/01/13 9:32 am

Here's a document from the American Cancer Institute about his treatment, in which it appears that the man has held the patents for the treatment since 1985 (not just a statement, but references to the patent records- #6 & #25).

YouWantMeToPay ... for THIS
07/01/13 9:35 am

It's the unsanctioned work that proved a cure. When the FDA stole his neoplastin research, they also placed a limit on what he was allowed to do. Created a road block.
There are videos of his patients testimonies before a congressional hearing.

YouWantMeToPay ... for THIS
07/01/13 9:36 am

If the medical community has deemed you terminal, what do THEY care which treatments YOU choose?

Tony ✋🏻SOH Founder
07/01/13 9:36 am

Susan - is there any number of people that would need to be cured through a non-FDA approved, unconventional treatment before you would consider it legitimate?

YouWantMeToPay ... for THIS
07/01/13 9:39 am

Ahhhhh, a docu from the... Cancer Institute.

Thanks.

susanr Colorado
07/01/13 9:40 am

Sorry, forgot the URL: www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/antineoplastons/healthprofessional/page2

Looking at another list of his patents, he's also patented antineoplastons for AIDS, Parkinson's, neurofibromatosis & "viral infections.

susanr Colorado
07/01/13 9:42 am

What, the whole National Cancer Institute is in on the conspiracy, too? If you look at the document instead of just dismissing it, you'll see that it is a very detailed accounting of the treatment, not just a smear paper.

susanr Colorado
07/01/13 9:43 am

Of course they placed a limit on what he is allowed to do. He's had 30-some years to conduct a proper clinical trial & publish a peer-reviewed study showing that his treatment works. He has not done that. The FDA is not subjecting him to ANY...

susanr Colorado
07/01/13 9:44 am

special treatment or a witch hunt - they're just applying the principles of good medicine that are applied to ANYONE treating patients in the US.

YouWantMeToPay ... for THIS
07/01/13 9:46 am

Except, it appears, for those with an actual cure...

susanr Colorado
07/01/13 9:55 am

Tony, it's not a specific number; it's how a study is conducted. The man has simply not done a decent study in 30 years.

YouWantMeToPay ... for THIS
07/01/13 10:08 am

What about those he's cured? Dont they account for anything here??
He has TONS of supporters.


YouWantMeToPay ... for THIS
07/01/13 10:12 am

We have one of the largest cancer research centers, and it grows exponentially each year.
Still no cure, despite the trillions they receive through funding/donations...

As it stands, our research center is now 4 city blocks large.


YouWantMeToPay ... for THIS
07/01/13 10:13 am

And the best they can do is, burn you, cut you... pretty outdated methods in this day and age.

Tony ✋🏻SOH Founder
07/01/13 11:49 am

Susan, as I stated, I don't believe there is a conspiracy. However, I do believe that there is too much scientific community dismissal, borderline bullying, of non-conformists. The greatest minds in the history of science have been non-conformists.

susanr Colorado
07/01/13 12:03 pm

They are not completely dismissed, unless they conduct their business by unethical & unscientific standards (google "hulda regehr clark" for a good example).

The NIH has included an institute or the study of alternative medicine since 1991...

Tony ✋🏻SOH Founder
07/01/13 12:10 pm

It's the "unscientific" label that can lead to a mob mentality and bullying of people who take an alternative approach. It's not just in science - it's anywhere where those who make the rules use their authority to discredit those who don't comply

susanr Colorado
07/01/13 12:17 pm

It doesn't have a big budget, but it does exist. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Center_for_Complementary_and_Alternative_Medicine

Far-out treatments aren't necessarily dismissed out of hand by conventional medicine...

susanr Colorado
07/01/13 12:20 pm

...& Burzynski has been encouraged to conduct legitimate trials.

During my graduate & postdoctoral work, I was very interested in alternative medicine & cancer-preventive methods in particular. There was a LOT of research looking at simple...

susanr Colorado
07/01/13 12:23 pm

..dietary measures to reduce incidence of cancer in the first place. There were a number of well funded human studies plus a ton of animal research - my own research was 2 years into a nutritional cancer study when it was derailed, but it was...

susanr Colorado
07/01/13 12:24 pm

..funded by government grants.

These are studies that, if they prove dietary methods are effective, would result in fewer people with cancer in the first place - not patients to be milked for money or treatments.

susanr Colorado
07/01/13 12:30 pm

There was a LOT of support for this kind of work in my professional society (the Environmental Mutagen Society), which includes scientists from academia, government & industry.

YouWantMeToPay ... for THIS
07/01/13 12:39 pm

Burzynski's methods have proven successful.
Real live living breathing, cancer free testaments.

Why all the shade towards a colleague with the same goals to eradicate cancer?
I don't get it...


JackTorS SOH Flounder
07/01/13 8:49 pm

As you said Jewel, billions and billions of dollars for cancer research. Just imagine all that money channeled to one man? Or not needed at all because a cure is found? That is motivation enough for an organization to discredit, dismiss and demonize

JackTorS SOH Flounder
07/01/13 8:49 pm

anyone even coming close to finding a cure.

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/01/13 6:42 am

I agree. I believe there are probably cures for a small portion of the great many chronic illnesses which plague the human population. The healthcare industry is the largest employer, and one of the most stable, profitable industries in the US.

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susanr Colorado
07/01/13 9:10 am

As a researcher in one of those fields, I can't begin to tell you how hard people are working to find treatments & cures, how much they would give to find them, how little they are motivated by profit (many are in academic fields, not just...

susanr Colorado
07/01/13 9:12 am

..commercial), and how frustrating and demoralizing it is to have people believe things like this about them.

I should say I am a *former* researcher. I'm retired, so I have no financial stake on this.

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/01/13 9:17 am

I am speaking nothing of the individuals, but of the corporations and other entities which they work under. If you have a contract which prevents you from speaking of your work, which is most likely the case, you're probably not going to be very

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/01/13 9:19 am

motivated to pursue getting much attention. Although I'd like to believe that no one would do such things, I do believe that it's at least POSSIBLE for there to be some types of cures, or at least alleviation a of symptoms - that aren't currently

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/01/13 9:23 am

in use. Am I saying there's a conspiracy to keep it off of the market? No. But I do believe that there is potential for the industry to cover up new developments.

YouWantMeToPay ... for THIS
07/01/13 9:26 am

Workers don't really make a profit, for themselves.

The left hand rarely knows what the right hand is doing.

susanr Colorado
07/01/13 9:46 am

MrL, I am not speaking of researchers in corporations, but academic researchers. Different world in some ways.

MrLucchese If curious, ask.
07/01/13 9:50 am

I agree. It is quite different. That being said, though, I still believe the issue could be presented. Who knows? Certainly not I.

susanr Colorado
07/01/13 12:32 pm

Well, RJ works in industry. My experience is government (during grad school) & academia (at a medical school). I certainly can't speak for everyone, especially industry, but I know what the atmosphere was like.