Show of HandsShow of Hands

Praetorianus August 17th, 2016 4:47am

Do you think it is ever justified for any religion to expand by force? This means military conquest of new areas and/or forced conversions within their sphere of influence.

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commonsense America isnt racist
08/19/16 1:20 pm

No, it's not justified. But that's what Islam and Christianity did, over and over.

sfcren Wyoming
08/17/16 9:03 pm

I answered yes, because to those religions it is justified.

goldz oh this world
08/17/16 6:46 pm

Praet, I can't believe you still support Trump.

lcamino Florida and Georgia
08/17/16 1:47 pm

No, forcing conversion of unbelievers is wrong. As is enslaving, raping, and beheading unbelievers.

Brandon2018 Stocks Are Overvalued
08/17/16 10:10 am

No. You will not convert me by force. I have an open mind, but prepare to die if you come to my house forcing me to change.

08/17/16 8:36 am

No. Just War Theory would not allow for that.

08/17/16 4:36 am

Nope. I don't personally recognize the legitimacy of war, whatever the cause.

goalie31 OrthodoxCatholicChristian
08/18/16 6:48 pm

Canada invades Maine. What's your course of action?

08/18/16 9:46 pm

Yeah so Canada can't just invade Maine.

Obviously in our world today world has to exist, cuz humans are dumb and for some reason believe that killing people is legitimized if it's in the name of our national borders or whatever. Murdering other humans should not be the way to solve your problems. If everyone believed that, there would be no need for war.

Liberty 4,032,064
08/17/16 4:12 am

It is never justified to expand anything by force.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
08/17/16 12:08 am

Yes and no. If religious leaders want to get together and have a fight, go ahead. But don't be attacking civilians.

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
08/16/16 11:13 pm

I have to answer carefully, lest anyone misconstrue my answer as in any way a criticism of Israel's "expansion by force" as the result of military victories in a DEFENSIVE war which it DID NOT START. "Military conquest by a religion" does not apply to that situation. So, to literally answer your question, no, military conquest involving forced conversion, such as what ISIS does to Christians and Jews and Yazidis in Iraq and Syria, is never justified.

Praetorianus Fair enough.
08/16/16 11:19 pm

No problem with that, for example I see the six days war as justified.
Securing territory and slight expansion to be less vulnerable doesn't equal a war for religiously motivated expansion. Israel isn't expansionist.

PrinceOberyn Here I am Here I Remain
08/16/16 11:29 pm

Ever also includes the entire breadth of time, not just Israel. Bullshit comparisons between them and today's ISIS aside, the crusades had very little real justification beyond lining the purses of the church and the Italian republics, and providing new lands for the spare children of Europe's lords to rule.

08/16/16 11:41 pm

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PrinceOberyn Here I am Here I Remain
08/17/16 12:10 am

". Except for reclaiming their lands after the Arabs invaded."

This would be true if they were going to return these lands back to the Byzantine Empire. Who had owned them prior to the Islamic Conquest all the way back when they were still the Roman Empire (Technically they were still the Roman Empire, but Historians like to separate the Latinate Rome with the more Greek one).
No Western European states had owned the Levant or Syria up to that point...ever. Not only did they not do that (they returned Nicaea and kept Antioch and Edessa for themselves), they ignored the Sultanate of Rum as it advanced into Anatolia and only attacked them when Edessa was threatened during the 2nd Crusade. The fourth crusade involved them invading, conquering, and sacking Constantinople. So much for defending the faith.

PrinceOberyn Here I am Here I Remain
08/17/16 12:14 am

The Crusades were not a holy war in defense of Christendom. They used the attacks upon Christians as a Casus Belli and excuse to conquer, enrichen, and expand the territories of European Kings and Princes. Not much different than any other war in the time period, except it was more populist and had an endorsement from god via the pope.

08/17/16 6:06 am

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PrinceOberyn Here I am Here I Remain
08/16/16 10:23 pm

They have no right but the right of conquest. They killed enough people, had better weapons/tactics/manpower. That's pretty much it.

GingerFascist Ireland
08/16/16 10:10 pm

It's not that it's justified its just natural. Humans are violet creatures that will find anything to fight over. Be it religion, ideology, race, ethnicity ect. we always find something to fight over.

RJ1969 SoCal
08/16/16 10:01 pm

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Praetorianus Fair enough.
08/16/16 9:51 pm

I don't see why.
Even when they believe people who don't "see the light" need to be forced to be "saved", it's against the right of people to believe what they want to.
Also, I sometimes doubt the altruism, it may mostly just be about power.

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
08/16/16 11:16 pm

You need to clarify which war you're talking about, praet. See my comments above.

Praetorianus Fair enough.
08/16/16 11:23 pm

- current war by ISIS
- Islam's expansion in the middle ages into Europe ending with the fall of Grenada 1492
- Christian forced conversion of "heathen" Germany and other European regions during the dark ages

gameplayer2014 Constipated Clefable
08/16/16 9:50 pm

No. Too tired to respond accurately.

08/16/16 9:50 pm

No force unless in defense or defense of allies is never justified