Show of HandsShow of Hands

rebelfury76 June 30th, 2013 5:19pm

Patriotism is nothing but loyalty to real estate, real estate that has been conquered 800 different times by 800 different regimes with 800 different cultures. But each time it's just "the best".

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pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
06/30/13 1:45 pm

Disagree. Patriotism is devotion to a set of individuals and ideals rather than to real estate.
Real estate plays a small part, but if I can find more freedom and ideals that I agree with elsewhere, I'm gone.

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pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
06/30/13 1:50 pm

There are numerous places in Russia, China, Cuba, Africa, and the Middle east that strike me as stunningly beautiful, and desirable places of residence, aesthetically speaking. But the lack of freedom and ideological differences keep me from moving.

MrMilkdud Pref pronouns Thou Thee
06/30/13 1:20 pm

How is this different than individual property rights? I could (but wouldn't) use your statement to assert that you don't actually own your land, you are just the latest in a long line of conquerors who have either stolen or unjustly sold the land.

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MrMilkdud Pref pronouns Thou Thee
06/30/13 1:21 pm

I could (but wouldn't) also claim that because your claim to your land was sanctioned by the group of people calling themselves government, who have no real claim to their land, that you also have no real claim to your land.

rory82 Virginia
06/30/13 12:43 pm

I'm curious as where the 800 number can from?

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rebelfury76 F Trump, F his idiot base
06/30/13 1:23 pm

It's just a number meant to illustrate a point

Liberty Lets Use Logic
06/30/13 11:59 am

I would say thar your description it's for nationalism.
I would describe patriotism as loyalty to the people that inhabit said real estate.

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skinner Wisconsin
06/30/13 12:13 pm

Thank you

rebelfury76 F Trump, F his idiot base
06/30/13 1:25 pm

To be a patriot I have to be loyal to people who think they can control what I do just because we live on connected pieces of dirt?

Liberty Lets Use Logic
06/30/13 1:50 pm

The founders' actions benefitted even the loyalists. They harbored no ill will towards people who were complacent under British rule before the secession.

There are many who are complacent now. I don't despise them, I realize they honestly don't know better.

Fjolsvin Midgard
06/30/13 11:20 am

We forget democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what is for dinner. Succession is when the sheep decided not to be dinner and fights back.

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Fjolsvin Midgard
06/30/13 11:42 am

Skinner hope you stay as part of the majority so that the wolves don't decide you look tasty.
When the majority turns from good policy to oppression it is the duty of the minority to do everything to right the ship of state including leaving.

skinner Wisconsin
06/30/13 11:46 am

Secession is the best way to achieve dictatorship.

Fjolsvin Midgard
06/30/13 11:50 am

Evidence please?
Historically the dictators of the 20th century arise from the democratic process. Hitler an elected representative, Stalin never lost an election, the Kim family all elected Castro, Mao, Pot, baby doc, all duly elected by wolves

skinner Wisconsin
06/30/13 12:04 pm

Societies are usually intelligent enough to not secede but here are some examples, the Iroquois Confederacy and Tecumseh Confederacy divided and then collapsed into reservations. South Africa seceded from Britain and began apartheid. Paris seceded

skinner Wisconsin
06/30/13 12:07 pm

From France and became a communist state, Vietnam seceded from France and became communist, the South seceded from America and became under martial law, the Roman Empire divided in two and collapsed, I guess they were still the same gov though, etc

Fjolsvin Midgard
06/30/13 12:08 pm

The colones succeeded from England if you want to dig that far back guess that was a bad idea too. The eastern block countries succeeded from the USSR so that was bad too. Hope you dont know any Ukrainians they like their freedom.

rebelfury76 F Trump, F his idiot base
06/30/13 12:08 pm

Honestly skinner, you're just making crap up out of bumper stickers. There's nothing wrong with a group forming their own nation with a similar model of government. Your whole dictator theory is just nonsense.

skinner Wisconsin
06/30/13 12:11 pm

Not really there is a reason the founding fathers didn't give states the choice of going to war, it would leave the states divided and an easy conquest for surrounding empires. That's exactly what a secession would do.

skinner Wisconsin
06/30/13 12:12 pm

In a free country secession is always wrong.

Fjolsvin Midgard
06/30/13 12:14 pm

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles." Evil word indeed should arrest the guy.

skinner Wisconsin
06/30/13 12:18 pm

The: when did I say I disagree with that? That's exactly what democracy enables us to do.

Fjolsvin Midgard
06/30/13 12:28 pm

I believe abolishing would indicate a right to rebel against a tyrannical government but check out Adams quote on chains as that is what I say to you

skinner Wisconsin
06/30/13 1:48 pm

Secession is the antithesis of freedom

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
06/30/13 1:54 pm

The South was subjected to martial law BY THE NORTH! Hence why the Constitution of Tennessee bans martial law within its borders.

skinner Wisconsin
06/30/13 2:15 pm

Well look at Massachusetts, we haven't had martial law in a couple months now.

skinner Wisconsin
06/30/13 10:41 am

False, patriotism is an expression of jovial appreciation for the values that bind the people of a nation.

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shellybaxter1234 Peaceful Place
06/30/13 10:26 am

Patriotism is about ideas not about a place - it is also about community

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rebelfury76 F Trump, F his idiot base
06/30/13 10:31 am

I think it's more about lines drawn on a map by politicians and the loyalty to them and their gang,

skinner Wisconsin
06/30/13 10:41 am

You're being overly cynical rebel.

HayleyS looking up.
06/30/13 10:21 am

Part of patriotism is being proud of the ideals that your country was founded on though.

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skinner Wisconsin
06/30/13 10:41 am

Rebel doesn't like the founding ideals

rebelfury76 F Trump, F his idiot base
06/30/13 10:46 am

Secession, rebellion, revolution, keeping arms n the hands of the people, how many of things do you think we see eye to eye on?

skinner Wisconsin
06/30/13 10:50 am

The founding fathers (except maybe Jefferson) did not advocate secession , they believed that because we were then represented it was clear that we must talk out problems because the people hold the power. See Whiskey Uprising and Shays rebellion.

rebelfury76 F Trump, F his idiot base
06/30/13 10:51 am

Once power is obtained its not easily or readily given up. They simply became the former king and its been passed down.

skinner Wisconsin
06/30/13 11:07 am

Secession is a very quick way to create a dictatorship, voting is a much more efficent system

rebelfury76 F Trump, F his idiot base
06/30/13 11:30 am

Voting then got us all the corruption and misery we're enduring today.

Did you vote for it? I didn't. What's the solution? "Vote in" more fresh faces for the same games? No thanks, you folks have had your little experiment, game's over.

skinner Wisconsin
06/30/13 11:34 am

Its had mixed results, being good sometimes, bad others. So what's your brave alternative to democracy?

rebelfury76 F Trump, F his idiot base
06/30/13 12:09 pm

Tearing down this federal system and having fifty or less smaller states with similar models of government.

skinner Wisconsin
06/30/13 12:12 pm

But then you would still have to vote

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
06/30/13 2:02 pm

I don't agree with disbanding the Federal government entirely. California, New York, even Texas, would all be much weaker and extremely vulnerable to foreign aggression as completely independent entities. We have strength because of our unity.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
06/30/13 2:02 pm

The solution to Federal overreach is not the dissolution of that unity.

pinkyusuck The Carribean. I wish.
06/30/13 2:02 pm

Rather, the solution is to assert our right as individual persons, and individual states, to demand that the Federal government act within the limits placed upon it by the chains of the Constitution.

skinner Wisconsin
06/30/13 2:17 pm

Pink 2016!