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dylan1776 August 13th, 2016 11:43pm

Saying hypothetically if there were a god is his plan for us predestined or free will?

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GingerFascist Ireland
08/13/16 5:09 pm

Predestine, if a God exists he does not give us free will.

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dylan1776
08/13/16 5:09 pm

Agreed if we had free will then a god isn't omniscient or omnipotent

shoeless Texas
08/13/16 5:17 pm

He is all knowing and all powerful. In that, He allows us to do what we wish. We can choose or refuse him. Just because he knows that will be our choice does not mean he made you to do it. In fact, by your very comment about the nature of God, you prove free will. How would a controlling God let anyone not follow and worship Him?

dylan1776
08/13/16 5:19 pm

Good point but if he knows our future then is it really free will because if he knows which choices we make out of an infinite amount of outcomes doesn't that mean we don't have free will because we can't change that..

Arya8
08/13/16 5:25 pm

I think of God as an adult parent. He knows what we will do, but he doesn't make the call. We have free will.

dylan1776
08/13/16 5:26 pm

That's what I think too if there is a god it would hope we have free will or he caused all sufferage otherwise

shoeless Texas
08/13/16 8:46 pm

The book we have to find answers about God is the Bible. I know you referred to it as an ancient text that wasn't relevant, but it has to be relevant in speaking about God. It's His word, about shim, about His relationship with his creation (us), and insights into His character, will and desire for us. Throughout the Bible there are references to man having free will. The will to choose, to choose to obey and follow God, the will to choose our own path, the omnipotence of God, while his reaffirming that he has a desired plan for us (which confirms that we have choices). The first step I think that causes people to stumble in trying to understand God is trying to limit him based on human logic, human rationale and human behavior. We are created in His image, not exactly like him. Also, the Bible tells us his ways and thoughts are well beyond ours, which would be expected for God. I'll add more, but let's start with that. Thoughts?

dylan1776
08/13/16 8:47 pm

No proof of any God never seen, never heard, never smelled, never touched, and never tasted God and it isn't a microscopic level therefore there is no proof yet

shoeless Texas
08/13/16 9:00 pm

That's a very fair question. Keep in mine my replies will be from my thoughts, experiences and beliefs so I won't have to state that in every comment. With that said, I believe God is very evident. Not as a physical being, but evidence through the extensive and spectacular creation. The Bible confirms that belief as well. Keeping in mind my comment previously, God is not human at all. A God that can easily be explained or touched or physically seen, would finish that being to less than a God. For example, the Hindu gods are often carved or molded into a figure and their belief is that is the literal god. If I can take a piece of wood and make an image, it can't possibly be a god. The Christian God is beyond any of that. He created the heavens and earth, the sciences we know and trust, the emotions we have and all of the incredibly complex systems as we know them.

dylan1776
08/13/16 9:03 pm

That's still not any proof i mean if you want to log ahead and believe that too comfort the fact that you will rot in the ground and wasted your Sunday's fine just don't enforce it on me the transcendence argument is just a strawman

shoeless Texas
08/13/16 9:15 pm

I'm not forcing anything on you. You made a statement that God can't be touched, smelled, etc so He doesn't exist. I responded in that, essentially, that's a very closed minded view. You believe and trust in a number of things you can't see, touch, smell etc, you just see evidence of their existence. Some can't even truly be explained by science, but that doesn't nullify their existence. If you aren't interested in trying to understand a believe in an eternal God that is and creates from love, then that's fine. I won't bore you with my thoughts. However, my belief is not to comfort me or give me peace that there is more beyond death. I would be perfectly fine if life ended at death. However, the evidence is so overwhelming and my relationship with Christ and God the Father is beyond anything that can really be explained and every true Christian would say the same. I thought you might want to know about that God, but if you are content where you are, carry on.

TheWall
08/13/16 4:51 pm

What do you mean, "Id there were"? Plus in the Bible, it says that God' plan for us isn't just him guiding us, but with our free will

dylan1776
08/13/16 4:53 pm

No proof and your really old book isn't proof in the slightest.

dylan1776
08/13/16 4:45 pm

As an atheist I would say predestine as if there is a god and that God created us this god is omniscient and omnipotent in which case free will makes no sense or this god cannot be omniscient as it can't see free wills future as there are infinite incomes.