Show of HandsShow of Hands

GingerFascist August 13th, 2016 8:20pm

Because SOH can't stand religious debates, I'll repost it. With commenting available. "Do you think Islamic religious teachings encourage violence among its believers?"

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pcisbs1 Baltimore to Central PA
08/13/16 4:37 pm

Of course it does, it's written in the Koran.
SOH needs to stop sensoring.

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cowboy Doors of Perception
08/13/16 3:41 pm

Mohammad was a thief, a torturer, a murderer, a rapist and a pedophile. That's not a peaceful religion...

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cowboy Doors of Perception
08/13/16 3:43 pm

The truth probably scared the SOH brass... Lol. 🙄

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
08/13/16 9:12 pm

Then, why would they even post it, cowboy?

Can you accept the idea that maybe, somebody made a mistake and accidentally disabled comments?

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/14/16 5:46 am

Lol. "Accidentally". That's adorable.

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
08/14/16 5:55 am

Again, with the "adorable" nonsense. Trust me, I'm lots of things. "Adorable" is not one of them. 😜

Anyway, I misjudged the SOH staff. I made a mistake. However, in the face of massive protests, Tony restored comments and Caleb apologized in the main poll.

I'm disappointed in the original action, but I do give Tony and Caleb credit for fixing it.




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cowboy Doors of Perception
08/14/16 6:05 am

So they heard our voices and bowed under the pressure. Good.

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
08/14/16 6:11 am

If you follow the thread on the poll by @VeganCrusader , @susanr and I were instrumental in getting Tony to restore comments on that poll.

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/14/16 6:13 am

I agree. Everyone needs to know about the evil Mohammad released upon this planet.

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
08/14/16 6:15 am

That wasn't my point. If the poll had been about Trump or Hillary or even about kittens, I would have felt the same way.

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/14/16 6:21 am

But it was about the evil Mohammad released upon this planet....

political Georgia
08/13/16 3:33 pm

I shared this because of SOH's administrators' nonsense. The answer is absolutely.

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MrsCrayonWax
08/13/16 4:22 pm

What happened? Did they pull a poll?

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
08/13/16 4:27 pm

There's a glitch in one of the SOH main polls. There are zero comments and none can be posted. Obviously, they wouldn't have asked the question, if they didn't *want* comments posted. Susanr is trying to get somebody's attention to get it fixed.

susanr Colorado
08/13/16 4:30 pm

There's a SOH poll (about violence and Islam) where comments are disabled. It looked like they've been disabled from the beginning, or very close to the beginning (there are 0 comments; it's possible there were some very early comments that were removed, but a couple people said they hit it right after it was posted and couldn't post a comment, so it doesn't sound like it went all crazy bad & got shut down, but who knows).

People are criticizing SOH for censoring comments in various ways.

I've never seen that happen, so I've asked SOH what's up. If it's deliberate, it would be the first time I've seen it here. Personally, I'd rather wait and find out if it's some new policy (which seems nuts to me) or a glitch, or what, before making irate polls or accusations.

MrsCrayonWax
08/13/16 4:34 pm

I recall seeing this happen once before long ago where a poll had comments disabled.

susanr Colorado
08/13/16 4:39 pm

Do you remember what the poll was about? Do you remember if it was intentional, or anything else about it? I know Tony has shut down a couple polls in the past if some argy-bargy stuff got really out of hand, but that was stuff that had gone on for way too long. This was virtually instant.

It happens with info-polls, but I don't remember any *real* polls.

Could be some new thing - but it's silly if it's intended to shut down contentious discussion. Heck, we do that over math problems and whether you face the shower or away from it!

MrsCrayonWax
08/13/16 4:40 pm

I wish I could remember but I want to say with in the time span of 18-24 months ago. There was hoopla about it but I can't recall if it was intentional or a glitch.

getupbaby South City
08/13/16 5:24 pm

One time, they reset comments, but it was a technical error.

susanr Colorado
08/13/16 9:36 pm

Tony posted a response in VeganCrusader's poll "SOH has disabled comments..."

susanr Colorado
08/13/16 9:50 pm

Tony enabled comments on the poll.

getupbaby South City
08/14/16 7:13 am

"...and there was much rejoicing..."

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
08/13/16 2:55 pm

Thank you for reposting this.

No, I do not.

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Mackinaw Wolverine State, est.1837
08/13/16 2:27 pm

Depends on who is doing the teaching, just like any religion

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demandside New Keynesian
08/13/16 2:23 pm

Not anymore than other religions

And the bible is more violent than the Quran

www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/violence-more-common-in-bible-than-quran-text-analysis-reveals-a6863381.html

To believe that the Quran can only be interpreted to be violent is just silly and stupid, as the same can be said about Judaism and Christianity.

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Carcano Luke 10 19
08/13/16 2:39 pm

Just because there's more violence doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean it condones violence.

demandside New Keynesian
08/13/16 2:40 pm

"Just because there's more violence doesn't mean anything. "

Yes it does, based on the teachings, both have the potential to incite violence as both involve violent text

Carcano Luke 10 19
08/13/16 2:44 pm

Let's use movies for an example.

We're looking at two movies. One movie is anti-war (such as saving private Ryan), and the other is pro-war (something like Starship Troopers). Both have very violent scenes, but the anti-war one actually has more because it intends to show people the horrors of war.

Which one causes people to support war more?

Carcano Luke 10 19
08/13/16 2:46 pm

My point is that more violence does not mean more violent. The bible has violence in it but it seldom condones it.

demandside New Keynesian
08/13/16 2:50 pm

"My point is that more violence does not mean more violent. The bible has violence in it but it seldom condones it."

Deuteronomy 17
"If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die."

Carcano Luke 10 19
08/13/16 3:07 pm

"He said it seldom condones violence, therefore I will cherry pick the small number of verses that condone violence"

demandside New Keynesian
08/13/16 3:12 pm

Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

demandside New Keynesian
08/13/16 3:12 pm

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

demandside New Keynesian
08/13/16 3:13 pm

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

demandside New Keynesian
08/13/16 3:14 pm

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication

A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Carcano Luke 10 19
08/13/16 3:14 pm

That's the Jewish part of the bible. Christians don't follow those laws anymore. Do you hate Jews?

demandside New Keynesian
08/13/16 3:18 pm

1. No, I don't hate anyone. That's why I don't judge people based on their religion, jew Christian or Muslim. All religions are messed up in their own way, so to say that one is evil while ignoring the evils of others is plain stupid

2. That's a cop out stating "they're the Jewish parts" when the Jewish parts founded modern Christianity and many Christians strongly believe in these "Jewish parts", especially the parts listed above

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_the_Old_Covenant

demandside New Keynesian
08/13/16 3:19 pm

Also, the parts listed above are just passages. I didn't even touch on the violent history.

And again, these passages have been adopted by Christianity

Carcano Luke 10 19
08/13/16 3:20 pm

Christians stopped following the archaic laws. The Catholic Church in modern day is opposed to the death penalty.

Muslims still follow their archaic laws and justify it through their religious teachings.

Your eyes can't be that closed.

demandside New Keynesian
08/13/16 3:26 pm

"Christians stopped following the archaic laws. The Catholic Church in modern day is opposed to the death penalty. "

This is because of LIBERALS. As liberals in America pushed the US from its backwards ways and saved it from conservatives. But the most religious US states are the ones which have the death penatly(unlike more secular European nations). And again, look at Christian history and Christian scripture and practices. You can't just say "Islam is evil" when history and writing shows Christianity is at least just as "evil"

Carcano Luke 10 19
08/13/16 3:30 pm

Lmao you clearly know nothing about religious history.

demandside New Keynesian
08/13/16 3:32 pm

Yes because the colonialism, the crusades, the inquisitions, the religious wars, the pogroms and the intolerance are all non existent in Christian history

Carcano Luke 10 19
08/13/16 3:33 pm

Those were all politically motivated. Open a history book.

demandside New Keynesian
08/13/16 3:36 pm

"All the wars and killings in the name of religion has nothing to do with religion, except in Islam" 😂😂😂

IronSpiderchan Communism is a disease
08/13/16 2:21 pm

Their prophet literally went to war with another tribe

susanr Colorado
08/13/16 2:03 pm

@GingerFascist - I've asked the developer & other SOH staff about it; maybe we can find out what's going on. If it's just a glitch maybe it can get fixed. If there's any info I can pass on about it, I will.

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Carcano Luke 10 19
08/13/16 2:40 pm

It can't be a glitch. It's that single poll.

susanr Colorado
08/13/16 4:36 pm

It could be a glitch, if someone posting a poll tickled a button that says "turn off comments" accidentally. (Have you ever hit "share with followers" when you meant to hit "favorite"? I have.) It could be a glitch if some bit turned wonky.

It could be a non-glitch if there's some new policy.

I don't know. You don't know.

Carcano Luke 10 19
08/13/16 4:38 pm

Human error is not a "glitch".

susanr Colorado
08/13/16 4:40 pm

True! Thanks for the correction. I was "lumping."

Still, I think you get the point. Something unintentional. Not a deliberate shutdown.

Carcano Luke 10 19
08/13/16 4:47 pm

I get the point, but it seems like too much of a coincidence.

susanr Colorado
08/13/16 9:36 pm

Tony posted a response in VeganCrusader's poll "SOH has disabled comments..."

susanr Colorado
08/13/16 9:50 pm

And he enabled comments on the poll.

susanr Colorado
08/13/16 10:16 pm

So you guys were apparently right. The poll's been opened for comments, though, in case you haven't seen any other place where I've posted that.

Senate101 San Diego
08/13/16 1:40 pm

I don't think it does at all. However, thank you Ginger for posting this. Freedom of speech is one of the reasons why America is a great nation.

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mpurple oh no. trump won.
08/13/16 1:28 pm

You've been using the app for ONE week. They don't hide from religious debates AT ALL!

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GingerFascist Ireland
08/13/16 1:29 pm

Obviously they have an exemption for Islam. Also you realize I can look through SOH polls right? They are politically correct on Islam.

susanr Colorado
08/13/16 1:38 pm

There is NO exemption for Islam and they are NOT "politically correct" on Islam. Sorry, but you just don't know what the crap you're talking about here.

They may have changed their minds about making that poll; there may have been something weird or awful that happened with a comment in the poll; it may have been a technical glitch; but if you'd been around here longer you would know that they throw out a LOT of really contentious subjects OFTEN and and they're not "politically correct."

Tony (the founder and original owner) would much rather that we be kind and decent to each other, but that kind of got run over by the bus a long time ago.

susanr Colorado
08/13/16 1:50 pm

"Also you realize I can look through SOH polls right?"

But did you? SOH asked almost the exact same question on 10/6/14 (4,983 votes, 670 comments): "Do you think the Islamic religion encourages violence among its believers?"

There have been other similar questions about Islam, as well as the *same* question back before SOH had comments (e.g. 2/25/11, 4/401 votes).

Will you back off with the "politically correct" accusation, please? Just search using "islam".

susanr Colorado
08/13/16 9:36 pm

Tony posted a response in VeganCrusader's poll "SOH has disabled comments..."

Brandon2018 Stocks Are Overvalued
08/13/16 1:27 pm

Yes. Look at ISIS, Look at Al Qaeda, look at the Taliban, look at the over 90% of all terrorist attacks in the passed 50 years that were Islamic. Look at the millions upon millions of Muslims that approve of the attacks. Look at the quaran which advocates the killing of "infidels". The kkk is the only Christian terrorist group I know of that actually affect or affected other people. Not all Muslims, but damn well most of them.

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Brandon2018 Stocks Are Overvalued
08/13/16 1:32 pm

Oh yeah, and those who believe that Sharia law supercedes the US Constitution should be deported back to the middle east.

Brandon2018 Stocks Are Overvalued
08/13/16 1:46 pm

I am willing to have a civilized and friendly debate if anyone is interested.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
08/13/16 2:59 pm

I don't know about your 90% stat, but it's irrelevant. The Qur'an in context does not permit the murder of innocent people (At-Tawba 9:4, for example). Also, another Christian terrorist group is the Lord's Resistance Army in central Africa.

Brandon2018 Stocks Are Overvalued
08/13/16 3:01 pm

I meant 90% as in at least 90%. Okay. I wasn't familiar with the "Lords Resistance Army". That makes 2.

Brandon2018 Stocks Are Overvalued
08/13/16 3:04 pm

And the quaran does permit if not suggests the killing of those who aren't muslim. You know that the founder of Islam was a renegade who went around cutting people's heads off. That's a historical fact.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
08/13/16 3:13 pm

It permits it only in the context of defense. Again, At-Tawba 9:5 is the famous verse for killing infidels. But the verses just around it (in this specific context) say to give the pagans 4 months to leave if they want to. Then it says not to touch them if they didn't fight you first. Then it says, after giving permission to fight, not to fight if they offer you a peace, even if they provoke.

GingerFascist Ireland
08/13/16 1:24 pm

Oh and everyone in the comments, please up vote this poll. SOH needs to stop being so political correct and just let people debate.

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Carcano Luke 10 19
08/13/16 1:25 pm

I agree. What they did on that poll is disturbing.

susanr Colorado
08/13/16 1:27 pm

I missed it. What exactly happened?

Carcano Luke 10 19
08/13/16 1:29 pm

They closed all comments as well as the ability to view the results of different demographics.

mpurple oh no. trump won.
08/13/16 1:29 pm

Susan they disabled comments in the main poll about Islam. I'm sure they don't want a bloodbath. I understand.

Carcano Luke 10 19
08/13/16 1:29 pm

SoH is supposed to be a place for controversial debates. The staff really need to wake up and realize what their app is.

susanr Colorado
08/13/16 1:31 pm

*Something* unusual must have happened, for them to post the poll and disable comments, without just closing the poll.

I'd suggest waiting to see if they post some sort of explanation, rather than just jumping to some not-necessarily-warranted conclusion.

susanr Colorado
08/13/16 1:35 pm

Seriously, they've had some EXTREMELY contentious polls about a number of subjects - religious as well as other subjects. I have NEVER seen a poll stopped like this before.

It's idiotic to think that they'd post a poll about a fairly contentious subject and then just disable comments without some good reason. If they wanted, they could close the poll. If they wanted, they could make the poll invisible, and unsearchable. And maybe they will.

Maybe there WERE a few early comments that were exceedingly awful, that had to be removed. Maybe something particularly terrible happened. I have no idea - but neither does any one of us.

susanr Colorado
08/13/16 1:43 pm

You can see demographic results now. They never show up until there are 200 votes total, and don't show up for a specific demographic group until there are 20 votes for that group. (For religious groups, Protestant, Catholic, Agnostic, Atheist and Other Christian currently show.)

Carcano Luke 10 19
08/13/16 1:45 pm

A few nasty comments are no excuse to disable comments for all of us. They have the ability to delete comments too

susanr Colorado
08/13/16 1:54 pm

I'm not talking about just a few nasty comments, and I know they could remove them. I'm talking about maybe something extraordinary happening, but I can't even imagine what that could be. I've *never* seen this kind of thing happen in my almost-4 years here.

So I assume there was *some* reason for it - which could be as simple as a technical glitch.

I simply do not think it was that they "can't stand religious debates" or any other such nonsense. That's just idiotic, considering the long history of religious debates here. Including about Islam.

SwedishBeast Honor the roots
08/13/16 2:01 pm

They closed one of my polls about Multiculturalism.

susanr Colorado
08/13/16 2:17 pm

Which poll was that, SwedishBeast? The one where the question is just "Multiculturalism"? That's not really what we're talking about here, though, but...

SOH will close polls if they violate SOH rules. I don't see *any* of your polls that violate any SOH rules (I am not seeing all the answer options, but I don't imagine any issues there). The "Multiculturalism" poll closed before it reached 100 votes, but are you aware that polls close automatically one week after they were posted, regardless of number of votes? Maybe that's what happened? Because there's *nothing* wrong with the poll at all.

SwedishBeast Honor the roots
08/13/16 2:23 pm

Are they able to delete polls or are they only able to close polls?

susanr Colorado
08/13/16 2:29 pm

I can't really answer that because I'm not a behind-the-scenes technical person or a SOH staff member. I know they've made some virtually impossible to find with a search because they can change the text of the question (in my experience that's exceedingly rare and I haven't seen it for ages), but I've also seen some awful ones that I could still find with a search, so I know they don't automatically totally delete really bad ones. And I mean *really* bad.

susanr Colorado
08/13/16 2:46 pm

Maybe, but if you have any questions about what happens to your polls, you should always feel free to ask. You can ask SOH, or you can just ask in a poll and there are usually some users who will try to help.

SwedishBeast Honor the roots
08/13/16 1:24 pm

The Quran isn't peaceful like they say it is.

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Carcano Luke 10 19
08/13/16 1:22 pm

Of course they do. Anyone who thinks they don't is living in a fantasy world.

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