Show of Hands

This is an okay reason for it saying like others below you it's so the mother can see her victim is preposterous

Who's "they"?

The mother.

Oooooooh. Right. Just the incubator. Not the person responsible for causing this situation.

God is the devil eh? There is no victim in abortion 90% occur before the baby can feel anything and 10% occur after the baby is dead or will injure/ kill the mother

So if I murder you and you don't feel it, there's no victim?

Please don't vote.

What? How about you don't vote since you somehow come up with these crazy conclusions abortion isn't murder and you can't justify it as murder to anyone with knowledge of what murder and abortion is

You're ending the life of an innocent human being who has no choice in the matter. It's murder.

Nope you're not ending any life you're not letting a life happen which isn't morally wrong it's neutral

Science has proven that human life begins at the moment of conception.

Clearly you're mixing up your terms you mean religion not science. If you want to talk about science a fetus isn't a human being it's a zygote with no species

Scientific consensus is that life begins at conception.

Life yes but not human life

It has a unique set of human chromosomes. Have you taken a basic science class?

Yes I have. In my final remark to you I'd like to point out that your world view is unscientific in the deepest way, because science exists to help people live a better life. What you're view is it doesn't matter what kind of life you live it just matters that you get to experience living. What this thinking leads to is billions in poverty and millions of people with STI's. You have questionable morals sir wanting children to be born for most just to starve to death or get an incurable disease in their teens. I hope you take a deep look at your opinions and begin to appreciate quality of life not quantity of life. Goodnight and good riddance.

Humanity and personhood are philosophical concepts, not biological definitions.

Genetically homo sapien is a biological term, but that's a different question entirely.

Interesting psychology here.

How about, impression males for a 9 month term who impregnate a woman unintentionally. It will make them think twice that it's ok to have sex without the proper safeguards.

"That can be the only explanation for so many women having unwanted pregnancies each year"

The number keeps dropping, even with a growing population.

The father should be obligated to support the child, either directly or through child support payments.

Of course. After his jail sentence.

Since it takes two to tango then, unless it's rape, by this logic both need to serve time.

One is definitely serving time. The other is usually free to go. Let's change this.

Wtf are you even saying?

I'm saying you have no idea what you're talking about. You're clueless. You could give zero shts about fixing this problem. You're only about imposing your religion on to other people.

Lmao you're insane.

So you think every case of abortion includes a single mom who was abandoned by the father?

I love reading comments about how noble you are. How righteous. And you do NOTHING. Except advocate for laws that you can conveniently impose on others and then walk away.

Don't get off topic here smart guy. That's not what I'm saying.

My opposition to abortion has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with my opposition to murdering innocent people.

So please explain why the father would get a jail sentence.

If you're truly serious about stopping abortions then start with the sperm donor.

Both parties are equally responsible.

Because she's not going to be pregnant unless some guy provides 1/2 of the chromosomes.

Both parties are responsible? Really? You think the whole child-bearing equation is 50-50? You sure about that?

So? She accepted that 1/2 of the chromosomes.

It takes two to have sex. If it's consensual, both parties are equally responsible for the child.

I love comments from a bunch of childless males that say she she she she she. It's on her.

Whatever. Pathetic. You have no interest in addressing the real issue.

Lmao you must be trolling.

No, I'm pointing out your stupidity. But please go on telling yourself you really give a sht, even though you don't.

My stupidity?

You're doing nothing but making wrong assumptions and saying things that are illogical. I'm not the stupid one here.

You should kill babies, disgusting fucker. I'd love to abort the supporters of abortion.

Reduce abortions by imposing laws on males, not females.

Which means...nothing will be done.

Why not impose laws on both, fucking retard.

I have a proposal for a law:

1: women cannot hire someone to murder their offspring.

2. Men will be financially responsible for the offspring that they create.

There you go. Equality.

"I'd love to abort the supporters of abortion."

I'd love to see you take the responsibility of raising a child right now. Not later, now.

Men are financially responsible...to pay someone else to do all the work.

Oooooh,those poor boys. They have it so hard. Making payments....like they do with their cable bill. So hard.

You're a fcking living joke. Clueless.

What makes you think I don't have a kid?

Are you stupid? If the father takes full custody of the kid then the mother should be financially responsible. That's how child support works. Usually the parents stay together. If they don't, there are always adoption options and visitation plans.

Your comments

If the father takes custody? What alternate universe do you live in? How often does that actually happen? You are living in a fantasy world. A very convenient fantasy world.

You have a very narrow view of the world, where single moms are the big victims and men are the predators impregnating all of the young women. Sorry, that's not how the world works. I wouldn't expect a hippie faggot to understand the world much though. Go into a black neighborhood and get aborted.

It happens all the time actually. You're really ignorant.

How any fatherless kids are there in country? Look it up.

My point got a bit confused in the small response space. The short version is that through education and access to free or low cost birth control, women were taking control over their bodies. They had no reason to have sex without birth control. If women are now educated and have access, unwanted pregnancies should all but disappear (a very small % would remain). That isn't happening so the same argument of giving women power is used for abortion, which shouldn't be an issue given the great job in education and access. They are caught in their own rational. Either women are smart enough to make wise choices or abortion is an excuse. If they have been educated, they would understand the growth of a baby from conception and the abortion process. By not wanting the ultrasound shown, liberals are admitting that they don't want women to take responsibility for their actions. This isn't a religious stance, it's a logic stance.

How many?

Tell black men to stop abandoning their families then.

Right shoeless, right.

Women women women women. It's all on women.

WOMEN AND MEN ARE EQUALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR UNWANTED PREGNANCIES.

Except the rend result is not, in any way, equal.

What happens to a male's body during pregnancy? What social stigma does he have to endure?

A father who abandons his children is absolute scum. They have that social stigma.

Not all of us live in college world where it's cool to fuck a bunch of girls and leave them. Some of us are decent people who haven't been destroyed by liberal America.

If you're truly serious about this issue, the I want to see hardcore measures aimed at the person responsible for the situation.

Both are responsible.

"Some of us are decent people who haven't been destroyed by liberal America."

I'm sorry, did you not know that the poor red states are where teenage and unintended pregnancies are the highest?

"Both are responsible"

Really? So both share incubator responsibilities? Both get looked at and judged by people? Both have to go thru immense pain in birthing? Both have to feed the infant after birth?

RJ - you don't start with the sperm donor. He has no where to "donate" if the woman isn't a willing participant. She holds the key. (I'm obviously excluding rape and incest). If she says no, no donation. If she says yes, then she must take control of requiring birth control or already have that taken care of herself. If women are to have full control of their bodies, which I believe is ridiculous that it's even a question, then they take full responsibility with that control. I can't come into your house with a dog, if you tell me no. Likewise, I can't have sex with you unless you require birth control or have that covered on your end. Thus, ultimate power over a woman's body resides solely with her. If she does well, no unwanted pregnancies. If she skips the responsibility, she deals with consequences. Abortion is not a preventative birth control replacement. In short, women hold all the power over this situation even happening.

They share childcare responsibilities.

What a load of horse sht. You are it serious about this issue. You're only interested in imposing your views on to other people and then conveniently walking away.

It's both a fact that except for rape, both are equally responsible for the outcome AND yes, the mother has the greater burden since she has to go the whole nine yards and give birth. This disparity doesn't mean both aren't equally responsible.

Please explain how only men are responsible when there is consensual sex? Are women too dumb to understand what they're doing?

"He has no where to "donate" if the woman isn't a willing participant. She holds the key."

Wow.

She's in charge until accidental pregnancy, then he's in charge. Makes sense.

Given the numerous methods of contraception and possible variations of sexual behavior, why is this still an issue?

What?

RJ has some weird mental processes.

"Please explain how only men are responsible when there is consensual sex?"

Only? Who is the only one who has to sacrifice their bodies?

Ok, I think you're a little confused about the meaning of the word "responsible".

"RJ has some weird mental processes."

No, I'm just not an idiot dumbass. Go wave you flag and keep telling yourself how btchin you are and then do NOTHING. Other than impose laws on other people you give zero shts about, of course.

You're right, I don't give any shits about sluts who want to murder their offspring.

Men are responsible too. My point is based on the logic used by liberals to justify abortion. Women hold all power in this. They just do. If a man accepts that she relinquishes this power, then it's on him. No walking away, either marry up or get ready for consistent and timely child support payments. I'm not saying men aren't responsible. I'm going to the core of the problem. Woman says no protection =no sex and that ends it. Otherwise it becomes rape and that's a different topic from what is being discussed. I'm not sure why women don't like this fact. It gives the ultimate power to women. They have fought hard and now it is recognized even in law. A woman has ultimate authority over what happens to her body. That includes unprotected sexual activity.

Well, if I don't want guests I don't open the door 😏

Women who have had abortions should honestly be executed for murder.

Oh, please. Tell me about responsible. Please list the issues women have to go thru after conception and what obligatory responsibilities the males go through.

Go look up the word "responsible".

"Women hold all power in this."

Yup...all on women. So, let's let males make the decisions because it's all about the "power" men have

You people are NOT serious about your cause. Not at all. Until you hold men responsible for causing the problem.

Female bodies are built for childbirth. It's not that difficult.

I hold both responsible. People shouldn't be having promiscuous sex in the first place. Both are equally at fault.

re·spon·si·ble
rəˈspänsəb(ə)l/
adjective
having an obligation to do something, or having control over or care for someone, as part of one's job or role.

"Female bodies are built for childbirth. It's not that difficult."

And ,ales are to pump and dump. Then, tell women what to do.

Responsible: (second definition) being the primary cause of something and so able to be blamed or credited for it.

That is the way in which I was using the word. You got a bit confused.

RJ, you're an idiot. Don't reproduce.

"Well, if I don't want guests I don't open the door 😏"

And the males that open and walk through that door? Great metaphor.

Until you sad sacks take responsibility for the sperm donor, your cause and concerns are worthless.

Both are at fault.

Both are at fault.

Both are at fault.

Both are at fault.

It's not that hard to understand. Get it through your think skull you naive baby boomer fuck.

RJ, I think there is a disconnect somewhere in what you think I'm saying. I'm not sure how to clarify, but your responses don't argue against or for what I'm saying. You obviously have some passionate feelings on this. So I'd like to try to clarify somehow.

Continue your pathetic circle jerk and keep telling yourselves you really care even if you don't.

RJ, until you stop supporting murder, your life and opinion are worthless.

Sorry shoeless, I'm dealing with,ultimate people here.

@RJ: I can understand that men sometimes feel resentful if a relationship tanks when the woman is pregnant and she gets to keep their child and the loving dad only has to pay child support and beg for some visitation rights.

*multiple

Praet, wtf are you taking about?

@RJ1969. Ok. Thought I was the target on some comments that were probably directed elsewhere.

Carcano...right on. So, today, another 25,000 kids under the age of 5 died today from preventable causes. I'm glad you were there to help....by posting on an app about your opposition to abortion in America. You're sooooo noble.

Why do you assume that I don't support helping those kids?

And as a former firefighter I've probably helped save more lives than you could ever dream of saving.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, we have a verified formula as to how to continue to reduce the number of abortions. It's not to shut down planned parenthood or make abortion illegal.

Support education. Support contraception access.

"And as a former firefighter I've probably helped save more lives than you could ever dream of saving."

I invent anti-cancer therapeutics. I doubt you even come close.

A recent study shows that contraception access actually leads to more promiscuous sex, which leads to more instances of failed contraceptives, which leads to more unwanted pregnancy.

Fear is the best deterrence.

From way above about who's in charge and that sperm donor thing.
I just wanted to say I can understand that in unwanted pregnancies, despite the woman's burden, the father may feel resentful that all he can do is open his wallet.

What a load.

Too bad you couldn't cure your own brain cancer.

👍👍 for anti-cancer and firefighters

I have dck cancer. This thing is growing out of control.

Also, therapeutics don't save lives. They just prolong suffering. You are a useless person.

Ok, so I have done enough damage to your theories for one night. I promise you I will be back to straighten you guys out later, at another time.

"You are a useless person"

Apparently not

"Useless useless"

Time out. Everyone put down you device and walk away for 5 minutes! No appeals, just go breathe for a minute a calm down. Come back with civil discussion on point in hand.

RJ just killed my delusion that scientists are always cool, analytical and as emotional as Mr Spock.
The Vulcan, not the child care book author.

RJ and Susan both claim to be these genius scientists. They both really killed any faith that I had in this country's doctoral education system.

There is. If the expecting mother sees the live baby inside her, it may change her decision to abort.

Emotional manipulation is not a valid medical purpose.

I'm not paying for it. Add that part to the taxpayers bill and I'm fine with it

Showing a biological fact is not manipulation.

That's exactly what it is. Unless you can give a medical reason. Or any reason that doesn't involve emotions.

Harmless compared to what I suggest: have her watch her baby ripped to pieces and killed, preferably after first watching the general process (warning, graphic):

youtu.be/wnMt468uG-w

The fact that it's theoretically possible to be more of an emotionally manipulative scumbag does not negate the fact that relatively less unnecessary emotional manipulation is still not ok.
I take your continued attempts to appeal to visceral knee-jerk reactionism to mean you have no actual response?

My response should meanwhile be very clear: do whatever it takes to save a life.
If I cannot legally ban abortion, I'd like to make it as hard as possible.

I see this similar to those dramatic don't text and drive videos where kids watch a horrible accident.
Sometimes an emotional appeal can save lives, after all, we are emotional beings.

Wrong strategy.

Reduce the need for abortion by making unintended pregnancies more and more rare.

Up to and including emotional manipulation. I can respect up to a point that you feel you have to take drastic steps to achieve your moral goals. But you instantly lose any moral high ground you may have had when you try to be duplicitous. We can all recognize emotional manipulation, don't insult yourself and everyone else by pretending that's not the idea.

That is of course the best solution.

I see it as an appeal to emotions, something that is done nearly every time you want to convince somebody of something that isn't just a fact. If you call it !manipulation, fine. It's part of everyday human interaction.

I do call it manipulation. And while we have different ideas of the moral permissibility of using emotions in certain contexts, you should (if it is indeed such a necessary and acceptable action) be able to defend it with any title.
As long as we agree on exactly what you're trying to do, I can respect your other opinions on it.