Show of HandsShow of Hands

bringstheeagle August 10th, 2016 6:41pm

Would the United States ever sign and ratify a Treaty with a Muslim country that states "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion."

14 Liked

Comments: Add Comment

DerJlaw Minnesota
08/11/16 7:00 am

If the United States were to do this today it would be embarrassing. Why does a superpower need to appease Muslims for their own sake, when plenty of these Muslim nations would never return the favor.

Reply
bringstheeagle Colorado
08/11/16 8:13 am

I don't think it was appeasement neither then nor today.

DerJlaw Minnesota
08/11/16 6:56 am

First of all, in 1797, you could no doubt sign and ratify a treaty before most of the public even knew about it. But that's beside the point. Of course the United States isn't founded on the Christian religion, we're not a theology. Whether or not the US is a "Christian nation" depends entirely on the populous. For example, if a nation had 70% Christians calling it a Christian nation is not wrong. Calling it a nation of mostly Christians would be less likely to incite the born-again atheists out there, though there's really no pleasing them.

Reply
MJSeals J.D.
08/10/16 6:40 pm

You know earlier today someone asked why do we learn history or politics in school and tried to explain it to them. Wish I had this to show them *hand on chin sllllloooooowwwwlyyyy slides up to facepalm*

Reply
NYevo NY
08/10/16 4:21 pm

Seems inappropriate to put such language into a law, treaty, etc. Religion should be left out of Government charge, imo and should just remain silent on that topic.

Reply
bringstheeagle Colorado
08/10/16 6:00 pm

Nevertheless, this actually happened in circa 1797 - started by George Washington finished by John Adams and yes ratified by congress. So appreciate your feedback but it's a past event.

NYevo NY
08/10/16 6:24 pm

Crazy. I would hope this wouldn't happen anymore. Imo, religion and government don't mix well

shoeless Texas
08/10/16 4:10 pm

If a democrat is signing the treaty there is no question. The poll doesn't state we are a Christian nation, just questioning the actions of a future leader.

CMD1973 Oxford iowa
08/10/16 1:58 pm

It is the truth. We are not founded on a Christian Religion. If they want to put it in a treaty go ahead.

Reply
bringstheeagle Colorado
08/10/16 2:17 pm

They did back in circa 1797 - started by George Washington finished by John Adams and yes ratified by congress.

omniku dot com
08/10/16 4:16 pm

Not to state the obvious but 1797 comes after 1776 chronologically. ;)

Luftwaffe South of Heaven
08/10/16 1:47 pm

Are you talking about the wars we fought with Barbary Pirates? They signed that to avoid a holy war, not to appease muslims.

bringstheeagle Colorado
08/10/16 1:49 pm

Not sure of your meaning here as indeed no one has mentioned appeasing anyone here.

Suzan Hawaii
08/10/16 1:39 pm

To my horror Hillary might.

Reply
bringstheeagle Colorado
08/10/16 1:46 pm

How about it was started by George Washington - finished by John Adams and ratified by congress in circa 1797. Lol. Yeah I know unbelievable; right?

BrokenMirror free speech
08/10/16 1:38 pm

I see no reason we would have to. The first of all our constitutional amendments declares freedom of religion, so there is little need for that in a treaty.

And if a sharia state were to be triggered by the "fact" that we are supposedly founded on the concept of Christian values being reflected in policy (a fact only true if I have suddenly crossed into a parallel universe) then that same state would probably be even more triggered by the fact that Abrahamic Doctrine on social and religious issues (even that of Christianity over Islam) is abandoned for more open outlooks due to the actual fact that such an ideology is not ingrained.

None of this is to say that some of the more core tenets of Christianity, say, the 10 commandments, have had no impact on our system of laws, but our nation was never designed to impose Christianity or biblical law upon the whole of the populace. At times it has, but those were in fact, against the design of the constitutional system, rather than from it

Reply
bringstheeagle Colorado
08/10/16 1:43 pm

Thanks brokenmirror indeed for your thoughtful answer. Nevertheless, the USA already signed a treaty stating exactly that with a Muslim nation circa 1797. I do appreciate your sentiments about the intention not to force Christianity upon others. Your "parallel universe" notation totally cracked me up indeed. Thanks again.

RJ1969 SoCal
08/10/16 1:34 pm

This is one of the best polls I've ever seen.

Reply
bringstheeagle Colorado
08/10/16 1:36 pm

RJ I am honored. And thanks so much. I must say indeed I'm liking it myself - I admit I'm biased.

ConservativeCA Joe Biden is barely alive
08/10/16 12:58 pm

Why would we have to do that? We're not the country the murders people for having different religious beliefs.

Reply
bringstheeagle Colorado
08/10/16 1:08 pm

We already did it circa 1797. 😎

ConservativeCA Joe Biden is barely alive
08/10/16 1:09 pm

Um, what? What does that have to do with us singing a treaty with present-day Middle Eastern countries?

bringstheeagle Colorado
08/10/16 1:12 pm

Okay you're missing the point huh??? 😂😂😂😂. Thanks for dropping by - reading some of the comments may help.

ConservativeCA Joe Biden is barely alive
08/10/16 1:14 pm

The only person missing the point seems to be you, because you haven't provided one. And slow down with the emojis, chief.

bringstheeagle Colorado
08/10/16 1:18 pm

I like emojis which should be apparent - indeed I will continue using them in my own polls especially. 😎😎

As for your point I guess we'll need to agree to disagree. I will even if you don't. Lol.

Zod Above Pugetropolis
08/10/16 12:20 pm

Already has done. No reason not to do another.

Reply
croopertrooper Greater Cincinnati Area
08/10/16 12:12 pm

Lol great question. Can you imagine if they tried to do that today? People would lost their collective shits

Reply
bringstheeagle Colorado
08/10/16 12:56 pm

I fully agree. Imagine if that were added to our recent negotiations with Iran. 😂

skinner Jersey City
08/10/16 12:09 pm

Not only would we; we did.

Reply
PeopleAreDumb Nursing School
08/10/16 11:55 am

The US isn't founded on Christian principle anyway?

Reply
bringstheeagle Colorado
08/10/16 11:59 am

Believe it or not we agree here.

PeopleAreDumb Nursing School
08/10/16 12:51 pm

What exactly are your political beliefs Bringstheeagle?

bringstheeagle Colorado
08/10/16 12:57 pm

I'm a liberal democrat and a Christian.

PeopleAreDumb Nursing School
08/10/16 1:00 pm

Oh cool. I guess I'm kinda close to you. I'm a politically moderate Christian.

bringstheeagle Colorado
08/10/16 9:24 pm

@peoplearedumb - I think you're right we are apparently at least enough in range politically we can at under and respect each other's views. Thanks for dropping by and don't be a stranger.

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/10/16 11:46 am

I'd like to say no but Barry Soetoro would sign that before ink dried. So would Felony Clinton.

Reply
bringstheeagle Colorado
08/10/16 11:56 am

Nah, it was signed by one of the founders and ratified easily in congress. So apparently well before Barry. 😂😂😂

veritas1 Panda
08/10/16 11:57 am

What about Lightweight George Washington or Crooked John Adams?

truspec Texas
08/10/16 11:58 am

It already happened. 1797 Treaty of Tripoli under President John Adams

bringstheeagle Colorado
08/10/16 11:58 am

Oh, my. Literacy emerges. 😱👀

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/10/16 12:00 pm

Huh? What was signed by our God fearing founders that America wasn't founded in Christianity? What bogus history book did you read?

veritas1 Panda
08/10/16 12:02 pm

Most of them weren't even Christian.

bringstheeagle Colorado
08/10/16 12:02 pm

Mr. Cowboy this link contains a copy of the treaty for your reading enjoy. 😂😭😭😭

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli?wprov=sfsi1

bringstheeagle Colorado
08/10/16 12:03 pm

I agree Veritas

susanr Colorado
08/10/16 12:10 pm

It warms my heart that Jefferson and others were not just thinking of the religious rights of others at that time, but specifically had Jews, Hindus, Muslims and "infidels" in mind (in the "mantle of protection" letter). I am astounded that they even thought about Hindus and Muslims in particular, let alone considering protecting their rights in the United States.

susanr Colorado
08/10/16 12:11 pm

(Waiting for Jefferson to be declared a Communist with a mental disorder.)

bringstheeagle Colorado
08/10/16 12:14 pm

Lol. 😂😂😂😱😱😱

@susanr clearly it's only a matter of time before Jefferson and the founders are revised. 😎👌

GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
08/10/16 12:21 pm

Commenting here, so I don't miss cowboy's reply.

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/10/16 12:22 pm

Well if have to research this nonsense some more. There's got to be more to it if you Communists are applauding it. Just because John Adams bowed to Islamists that started a war, sound familiar, doesn't mean it wipes out the fact that America was founded on Christianity. The Supreme Court has the Ten Commands on it for crying out loud. And the very first act of the first Congress was to say a prayer. So one document does not make it fact. Sorry. Hate bust up the Commie fest here... Wait. No I don't hate it. I enjoy it. Lol.

GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
08/10/16 12:53 pm

"... you Communists ..." LOL None of us on this thread are Communists.

I do know a few Communists on this app. For example, I think DrWasdarb is, but he didn't comment here.




.

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/10/16 12:55 pm

Oh Grandma... You're adorable.

bringstheeagle Colorado
08/10/16 1:00 pm

I'm not communist either. 😎

GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
08/10/16 1:04 pm

Well, if we're going by the Merriam-Webster definition, "very appealing or attractive : very lovable," then I thank you. 😊

However, something tells me, you don't quite mean it that way. If you think I'm "adorable," like a small child or puppy, then you are very mistaken.

What does any of that have to do with the subject, anyway? You have a way of changing the subject, when you're clearly losing. That's "adorable."






.

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/10/16 1:10 pm

Really? What did I "lose" exactly? America was founded in Christianity. That is a fact John Adams or anyone else can avoid. The question is, why do the Communists avoid that fact today? It's really not that hard to figure out.

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/10/16 1:10 pm

*can't avoid...

bringstheeagle Colorado
08/10/16 1:14 pm

First it's not factual and second because America is founded on religious freedom - it simply doesn't matter.

GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
08/10/16 1:14 pm

If America was founded in Christianity, where does that put me, as a Jew?

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/10/16 1:18 pm

So why do Communists incorrectly claim that America was founded in Christian principles when the first act of the first Congress was to have a prayer?

susanr Colorado
08/10/16 1:19 pm

"...[T]he insertion [of 'Jesus Christ,' in the preamble to the Virginia Statute of Religious Freedom, which became a model for the Establishment & Free Exercise clauses of the First Amendment] was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and infidel of every denomination."
--Thomas Jefferson {Communist with a mental disorder}

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/10/16 1:20 pm

No answer from Susan. Who's next?

croopertrooper Greater Cincinnati Area
08/10/16 1:21 pm

"America was founded in Christianity. That is a fact John Adams or anyone else can avoid."

Come on guys, do you really think the founders of the country knew more about the founding of the country than Cowboy? It's not like they were there or anything... /s

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/10/16 1:24 pm

So still no answer. Who's next?

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/10/16 1:26 pm

Didn't the evil white Christians wipe out the savage Indians? Come guys. This should be so easy for you people that bash Christians all day.

croopertrooper Greater Cincinnati Area
08/10/16 1:27 pm

"So why do Cowboys incorrectly claim that America was founded in Christian principles when the founders signed a treaty stating that the country wasn't founded on Christian principles?"

I know you won't actually give an answer, so I'm just going to wait and see what your deflection is.

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/10/16 1:29 pm

Thomas Jefferson was an evil white slave owner. He was a racist. You guys are quoting a racist slave owner now? Shameful.

bringstheeagle Colorado
08/10/16 1:38 pm

😂😂😂😂😂😂. There it is. ⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️.

Too funny. 😭😭😭😭

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
08/10/16 2:10 pm

I was surprised to see my name in this thread! Just joining so I see updates :)

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/10/16 2:12 pm

You're surprised your name came up while discussing Communism? You shouldn't be.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
08/10/16 2:16 pm

I guess I'm just surprised. I forget that I'm one of the few, if not only communist relatively well known around her. Naturally I know there are quite a few more of us around here.

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/10/16 2:16 pm

Of course there is. It's not a secret.

bringstheeagle Colorado
08/10/16 2:20 pm

I didn't realize you were a communist Doc. Apparently we only agree about half the time. That's perhaps disturbing to some but not me. Lol.

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/10/16 2:22 pm

You didn't realize... 🙄

GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
08/10/16 2:36 pm

Cowboy, you have no idea what a Communist really is.

Was that "adorable"? 😂

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/10/16 2:40 pm

Kind of. I like your innocence but it's annoying in a political debate.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
08/10/16 2:41 pm

Brings, regarding capitalism, we agree with the problem, not the solution. But I'm an anarchist communist, so we also disagree about a lot of things there too.

GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
08/10/16 2:58 pm

Trust me. I'm far from innocent.

I think you confuse my effort to be polite with "innocence."

Also, you aren't actually "debating." You never do, in fact. You never answer any questions, except to repeat your own talking points. In fact, you never answered the one question I asked you earlier.

GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
08/10/16 2:59 pm

And again, you have no idea what a Communist actually is.

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/10/16 3:02 pm

That's not true at all. I answer plenty of questions. Not one of has answered mine thus far though. I guess that's to be expected from this bunch.

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/10/16 3:03 pm

And yes I do, obviously...

GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
08/10/16 3:03 pm

So, cowboy, why did John Adams sign that treaty? Was he a Communist with a mental disorder?

GrandmaALiCE For a better 2021
08/10/16 3:05 pm

"I answer plenty of questions."

I asked you earlier, if the United States was founded as a Christian nation, where does that put me, as a Jew?

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/10/16 3:07 pm

No clue. To appease crazy Islamists after Thomas Jefferson sent Marines to kill them, is my best guess. I wasn't there.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
08/10/16 3:07 pm

Howdy, cowboy! I know you don't actually care about knowledge, but if you actually want to learn about communism, my door's always open.

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/10/16 3:08 pm

What do you mean "if"?

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/10/16 3:08 pm

Lol. I'm well aware of what you people want.

croopertrooper Greater Cincinnati Area
08/10/16 3:12 pm

"I answer plenty of questions"

I'm still waiting for my answer, cowboy. Not a deflection followed by a non-sequitur, but a real answer please. Can you do that?

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/10/16 3:12 pm

So is anyone going to answer my question?

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/10/16 3:27 pm

Lol. Even when I guess I'm right... "It was John Adams' outreach to Muslims." Damn I'm good. 😎

cowboy Doors of Perception
08/10/16 3:46 pm

And then there's this...
The treaty of Tripoli remained on the books for eight years, at which time the treaty was renegotiated, and Article 11 was dropped.
I knew there was more to the story if Liberals are celebrating it. I mean how could you not? It has to do with hating on Christianity and America bowing to Islamists. Your two biggest triggers. Lol

dominiclandry
08/10/16 11:46 am

Depends who's in charge

Reply
RJ1969 SoCal
08/10/16 11:43 am

Bwaaaaa ha ha ha ha!

Love it!

Reply
bringstheeagle Colorado
08/10/16 11:57 am

Lol. I'll post a copy later. 👍😂😂😂

thatguy2 We tried to warn you
08/10/16 12:30 pm

Already happened way back in the day.