Show of HandsShow of Hands

Praetorianus August 10th, 2016 2:49pm

Having been witness to the political landscape on two +maybe one more continents, do you think most politicians genuinely care about the country or care more about themselves (their own agenda).

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SupremeDolphin They.them
08/10/16 11:21 am

Terrible. That's why representative democracy is such a joke.

SupremeDolphin They.them
08/10/16 12:18 pm

Direct democracy, the real kind where the people *actually* decide what laws govern them.

Praetorianus Fair enough.
08/10/16 1:05 pm

I hesitate about direct democracy.
With serious issues, it feels a bit like passengers get to vote what a pilot does next. "This is your pilot. Should I climb to FL300 to pass over the turbulences ahead or plot a course around it?"
Let the pros go!

omniku dot com
08/10/16 4:26 pm

Yeah although representative democracy has its drawbacks, I'm not so sure about direct democracy. It's really screwed up California in a myriad of ways. Citizens are highly passionate about the hot-button trigger issues and don't always have a handle on the wonky-and-boring-but-vital policy issues. While faulty, representatives are truly the saucer that cools the hot cup.

SupremeDolphin They.them
08/10/16 5:22 pm

I disagree with the plane analogy because clearly the pilot is the only one qualified to fly a plane. But all of us have political opinions or even thoughts that it'd be nice could be discussed in a meaningful way. Direct democracy may not be perfect, but it's better than all the alternatives.

SupremeDolphin They.them
08/10/16 5:23 pm

As for your point about California, I think direct democracy is very much a cultural issue, not just a political issue. We can't just plop a bunch of Americans in a direct democracy because they'll vote have representatives. It takes a cultural shift before any political shift can last.

Praetorianus Fair enough.
08/10/16 5:45 pm

I'm actually for a meritocracy where those who know best about a topic decide.
Example fracking.
Despite being pretty well informed about technology, I wouldn't consider myself competent to decide informedly on all pros and cons.

omniku dot com
08/11/16 3:55 pm

These are interesting ideas, but the bottom line is there is and can be no perfect society so we must strive for the best on possible. I'm not sold on either direct democracy or meritocracy. Re: meritocracy... Who decides who are the true experts? Is the Tobacco Institute an expert?

08/10/16 11:13 am

There are a very few politicians that really care for the people.

AmericanWolf For the Benefit of All
08/10/16 10:41 am

I think the majority genuinely care about their country, though there are certainly exceptions.

SupremeDolphin They.them
08/10/16 11:22 am

I really don't understand you haha

Jack14 Massachusetts
08/10/16 8:06 am

They love their agendas so damn much they conflate pushing their agenda and what is best for the country.

orgblu10 Shamerica
08/10/16 7:59 am

I think most of them begin their careers caring about the country, but end up caring more about their own job security.

Praetorianus Fair enough.
08/10/16 9:53 am

If you are a well known politician, you probably have no financial problems and if you tank, just make money writing your memoirs 😏

orgblu10 Shamerica
08/10/16 10:23 am

It may be as much about the power trip as the money, though.

omniku dot com
08/10/16 4:32 pm

And they care about the career itself. They want to be successful in their careers just like anyone else... In politics you do that by getting re-elected. They also have huge egos. It's a requirement for the job. As the saying goes, DC is "Hollywood for ugly people". They want to make a mark on history and you don't do that if you don't get elected/re-elected. To be fair, I think a lot of them figure "well I'll do what this evil lobbyist wants on this one issue so I can get elected and then do what's best for the country on these other issues", but politics requires so much dealmaking with so many strange bedfellows it's impossible not to get tangled up in the K Street web over time. And it becomes very easy to absolve yourself if you think the ends justify the means. So they may start virtuous or even think they still are when they really aren't.

Praetorianus Fair enough.
08/10/16 7:52 am

Hard to say but I think they DO care about their country.
Obama does, Merkel does.
Doesn't mean they are doing fine but they care.