Show of HandsShow of Hands

gonzoboy August 10th, 2016 12:00pm

Trump said of a President Clinton essentially abolishing 2nd Amendment, “If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do folks. Although the Second Amendment people—maybe there is, I don’t know", suggesting 2nd Amendment folks should organize to:

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gameplayer2014 Constipated Clefable
08/15/16 5:06 pm

It wasn't trump that said kill her. It was one of his advisers that said and I quote, "She [Hilary Clinton] should be lined up and shot by firing squad she's that unfit."

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/15/16 5:36 pm

Wow! Now that you mention this, it seems I do have some recall of that statement. The difference is it wasn't Trump who said it, or we'd STILL be hearing about it. THAT statement makes what people are TRYING to interpret from Trumps 2nd Amendment comment, pale in comparison!

gameplayer2014 Constipated Clefable
08/15/16 6:17 pm

That actually clicked. Never thought of it like that actually. Seems like people hate Trump MORE than anyone or anything else. Everyone seems to forget the dumb statements everyone else said just like this one or that time Hilary said she was dropped in a combat zone somewhere east when in fact she wasn't. She said she was rushed. She wasn't. She said she was in danger all the time. Well, not entirely. She said she could hear gunshots. There weren't any at all in the video.

gonzoboy Arizona
08/15/16 6:30 pm

I remember that Hillary story CLEARLY. Funny how things work:
-When Hillary said she landed in Bosnia and lied about being under sniper fire, well... nothing. And now, Democratic Nominee for President of the United States;
-News anchor Brian Williams lies about being in a helicopter that was shot down in Iraq, he had to make a formal apology on-air, was suspended without pay for 6 months, and eventually lost his job permanently to Lester Holt.

Seems a bit of an inequity...

TierasPet
08/14/16 6:44 am

I think one thing to keep in mind is that there is a standing opening on the court right now and no one will confirm a judge for that opening. That indicates that Hillary would have as much power as Obama has, which is zero. Without congressional support, nominees are not placed on the court.

What scares me is that we are in a position of choosing between two presidential candidates who both have demonstrated on a number of occasions that they are questionable choices. If you are an independent or somewhere in the middle, The daily media reports on corruption, stupid comments, you name it, are making you question every thought in your head about who should be elected. What you do know is that it will not be anyone other than one of these two candidates. Sadly, and fairly, that is an extremely difficult choice for anyone who is thinking about this to make.

It does appear to me that both candidates are experts in the field of plausible deniability and both have or will use it.

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/14/16 6:51 am

Tiera, do you believe this is a type of case that *could* be appealed to SCOTUS? If so, your words here are at minimum, alarming. Though my question to you here is quite specific to THIS case, the ramifications for the next election couldn't be more profound, and thank you for reminding us!

TierasPet
08/14/16 7:47 am

I don't think there is a case against Trump right now. He did not clearly say that Clinton should be assassinated by people who support the Second Amendment. He did make a statement that he knew could and would be blown out of proportion by the press. He is an expert at doing that.

He has also clearly stated that he has no intention of changing his strategy. That tells me that he intends to continue to make comments that will bring negative press attention his way. In fairness to him, that happens anyway. In fairness to the press, he's not trying to change a thing.

Going to Hillary, many people believe she should have been prosecuted for various alleged criminal activities. She was not. Many people who have done, again just k opinion, far less, have been prosecuted and are serving very long sentences. You could add to that, that the number of questionable deaths of people who have worked for her or her husband is rather astounding.

TierasPet
08/14/16 7:55 am

I really don't know Gonzo; what I see is one candidate playing the press in a way that they are used to and another one playing them in a way they are not used to; the press still wins. It's really a matter of political rules that have been set over the course of time and are being broken by these candidates in a way that really has not been seen in quite some time. Add the ability of social media to inflate and disseminate information more quickly than ever before, and you have this disaster. Then add the incredible increase in violence and anger that is being shown and I see a recipe for disaster.

I don't want to say that this country is on the verge of destruction but I do think that looking closely at what people are allowing our politicians to get away with and what is happening in the streets of our country as a result, is not good. These two candidates are both playing on all of that in my opinion.

corino Utah
08/10/16 10:21 pm

Maybe instead of outright assassination 2nd amendment folks might resort to, protesting? marching around? marching on Washington DC? Legal action? Voting Democrats out of office? Petitions?

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corino Utah
08/10/16 10:24 pm

Maybe do nothing and wait for the police (including a large body of sheriffs who have signd pledges not to support unconstitutional nonsense) to arrest them?

corino Utah
08/10/16 10:27 pm

Maybe they'll do what marijuana growers do and just violate laws so prolifically that the government can't jail them all and then say "see, prohibition doesn't work, America is wasting billions on a gun war they can't win you should just legalize and tax it."

gonzoboy Arizona
08/11/16 2:18 am

Exactly, corino! When I heard this, ⬆️THIS is where my mind went. Thank you for your voice of reason. I will agree with others that Trump might have/could have worded this in a way to remove all ambiguity. Clearly, by now, Trump should know how finely sliced & diced his every word will be by the media and others, yet here we are again.
But assassination?...🙄

gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 3:43 pm

Interesting!...🤔

susanr Colorado
08/10/16 1:41 pm

"If she gets to pick her judges" implies she's been elected. What would the gun-owners be able to do to influence the Supreme Court at that point, except for one of them to off her, or her SCOTUS picks?

It's idiotic from beginning to end, though. She doesn't automatically get her picks on the court; Congress has to approve them.

If he meant it as a joke (in any sense), it's a display of his extremely poor judgement. It he meant it seriously (in the assassination sense), it's borderline criminal.

He's an unmitigated asshole and would be a danger to the country as its President.

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 1:58 pm

You make a good point regarding the context of Clinton already being President, which is why I also thought he might be implying that 2nd Amendment people might exert their collective influence over Congress and their elected Representatives to block confirmation, as one option. With Trump, though, it's hard to clearly define his context, because he seems to shift it on the fly. It's my sense he didn't mean for her murder either as a joke, OR as a suggestion, and if I thought he DID, I would agree with you as to danger. Because you DO believe his malicious intentions, I understand your position.
Thank you for your thoughts, Susan, I do appreciate you!

susanr Colorado
08/10/16 2:05 pm

I don't necessarily think he did mean it as an invitation for assassination, but it's just so hard to tell with him! He either *intentionally* makes statements that *could* be taken one way or another, or he's just so careless about what comes out of his mouth that it's impossible to tell what his intent was.

Some days I think he really means the more vicious, violent stuff; other days I think he's just bad at discourse. Either way, I think he's a danger.

When you read the transcripts of some of the violent stuff about protesters at his rallies, or his reaction to speakers who say something critical of him, though, he talks a lot about how protesters used to be treated and too bad we can't do that now; and how much he wanted to really hit people who said things about him (he went on and on and on about that). So I guess I do tend toward the "he really means it" side. Otherwise, why can't he control his spewing of all that crap?

PartyJustin R.O.C.K. in the R.O.C.
08/10/16 3:24 pm

Susan - exactly, exactly, exactly. I only see two ways this can go. Either he knows what he's saying and is fucking with people, or he doesn't have a clue how he comes across.

I've seen so many people try to contort what he said into something that's inoffensive, while at the same time accusing people who saw it as a threat (whether real or a joke) as manipulating his words into something else. I mean, which is the easier manipulation? To take what he said in context as a threat, or to put numerous other words into his mouth to make it about voting or demonstrations?

gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 3:25 pm

You make a reasoned and compelling argument, dear Susan. Today, a Republican Congressman (name escapes me right now) said on CNN, that at some point, Donald Trump has to realize he's not just responsible for what he says, he's also responsible for what people hear. I think this is simply profound.

susanr Colorado
08/10/16 3:28 pm

Oh, that's an excellent point, gonzo. It would be a mark of a statesman, don't you think? Something I don't think Trump will ever be - except of course in his dreams of grandiosity.

Malekithe R lyeh
08/10/16 3:40 pm

Careless about what comes out his mouth and she is careless about handling classified information. Good pairing

Malekithe R lyeh
08/10/16 11:54 am

If Hilliary said the same thing the media reaction would be sooooo different.

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 1:43 pm

Depending on the media outlet, I reckon. One would say it's just another partisan witch hunt. Another would say she IS a witch!

Malekithe R lyeh
08/10/16 2:01 pm

Fox Witch
All others ignore or minimize

duey in a fools paradise
08/10/16 3:05 pm

She did say something similar... youtu.be/E0QAewVrR28

CoffeeNow Fiery but peaceful rioter
08/10/16 10:46 am

It was a dumb thing to say

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 11:23 am

MmHmm. I wonder how many times Trump has said something that your EXACT comment could be applied to? I like the guy, but jeeeeez man. It seems this is the style of someone who's never in their life been held accountable for what, when, how, or why they've said something about ANYthing. He sure picked a heluva time to try and figure it out, and at 70 years old, likely won't!

CoffeeNow Fiery but peaceful rioter
08/10/16 11:25 am

He's 70????? Holy shit. Say what you will about the guy but he's aged well (or has a helluva makeup guy)

Malekithe R lyeh
08/10/16 11:47 am

He is playing up to his own image. He says politically questionable things to keep showing he is not political. He doesn't want to act differently in public. That is not his image.

gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 1:13 pm

malekithe, I get the sense you're right about his true personna. He is SUCH a different dude when he's in the company of his family. It makes me wonder if ANYthing would be different had he allowed himself to project his more natural image. Not that what he's doing now would be so bad, if he'd quit trying to be so caustic...

croopertrooper Greater Cincinnati Area
08/10/16 10:45 am

Whether he meant shooting her, voting against her, or something else entirely, it doesn't seem very presidential if you have to go back and clarify that you didn't mean shooting her. Don't want people to get upset about your comments? Make your comments more clear, or don't try and make jokes about shooting people. At some point he has to accept that how and what he says is part of the problem.

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 11:13 am

Well said, crooper. Who knows that Trump wouldn't actually be an effective President, were he able to make it one whole week without giving fodder to the media for scrutiny, and the populace for derision. It'll be his undoing...

Malekithe R lyeh
08/10/16 11:51 am

He does make it easy for them but let's face it, they would create something to use against him anyway.

gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 9:31 am

OMG, 37%?!... 🎭

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Okie1967 Defend the Police
08/10/16 9:14 am

This seems like such a non-event to me, but the media is in a all out blitz against Trump and will be for the next 90 days.

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 9:24 am

Just 90? Heck, that's when the NEXT election cycle begins!😳

gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 9:26 am

...and I'm with you on the "non-event". I think that's why I did the poll. I could NOT get away from this!🙄

ZaQ777 Pittsburgh
08/10/16 7:51 am

His intent was pretty clear when he specifically addressed "second amendment people". The message was blatantly violent, but with just enough deniability.

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 8:26 am

ZaQ, I can understand folks seeing his comments through the prism of Party bias, through misinterpretation whether it's 'convenient' or a misunderstanding of context, or even just plain dislike for the guy. But I keep reading and rereading his comments, watching him on video, and I'm jus' not gettin' the blatancy...

ZaQ777 Pittsburgh
08/10/16 12:16 pm

I admit, I'm not unbiased, but I just can't think of any other way to interpret it. He's not referring to voting against her because a) he's talking about a hypothetical where she's already president and b) if this were just him asking for votes, there's no logical reason to single out "second amendment people" when he could have just said "Republicans" or something similar, since I assume he wants more than "second amendment people" to consider voting for him. What he said was, if Hilary becomes president, your only recourse to stop her addenda will be too get your guns and use them. Granted, do I think he genuinely wants someone to shoot the president? Of course not. This is just another example of him getting his redneck fans fired up with wildly inappropriate language.

gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 1:37 pm

I'm sure he specifically referenced 2nd Amendment people (as opposed to Republicans, generically), because JUST beforehand, he had spoken about Hillary abolishing the 2nd Amendment, immediately followed by the fact she would stack SCOTUS with Justices who would facilitate her. He then says if she did THAT, there's basically nothing anyone can do, EXCEPT maybe by folks who the 2nd Amendment is important to! They can place pressure on Congress not to confirm any such Justice, and even before that, could prevent her from even getting the chance, by uniting to vote against her. To me, it seemed rather innocuous, but I DO get how and why some might want to apply a darker meaning to it, even people in his own Party!

Squidboy Snarkapottamus
08/10/16 7:43 am

Obama already took all my guns!

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 8:07 am

Well, he HAD to! His Secret Service detail keeps screwin' up!

Squidboy Snarkapottamus
08/10/16 9:09 am

I would be worried about the seizure, but I failed my 'death panel' review and I'm scheduled to be executed by the obamacare death squad next month so it doesn't really matter. I'm spending my remaining time on earth blowing my welfare check on meth and hookers while I fill out fake ballots for my wife to mail in after I'm dead.

gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 9:21 am

😂😂😂...
Sounds as if you've meticulously planned leaving in a haze of glory!

CoffeeNow Fiery but peaceful rioter
08/10/16 11:54 am

I think if Obama woke up tomorrow with the executive power to do so, he would repeal the 2nd amendment and make guns illegal.

Do I think he'll ever even attempt such a thing? Nope. But only because he knows it would have exactly 0% chance of succeeding.

So yes, it's funny when some gun nuts hint at Obama taking their guns because it's not a realistic fear, but it's not for lack of desire imo

Krystina Live and Let Live
08/10/16 7:01 am

I think the media is looking for ratings. Even their style of reporting this is overblown, let alone going with the worst possible interpretation of his remark. And how on earth can such an ambiguous remark be the biggest headline of the day unless they're specifically looking for any word or phrase they can shred him on? Oh wait.

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 7:08 am

They're serial!

TomM
08/10/16 7:43 am

So true.

TomM
08/10/16 6:59 am

I think his message is ambiguous on purpose. He's done it multiple times. My interpretation was they can demonstrate. I didn't hear assassination. But whatever it was it created attention which is what he wants.

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 7:19 am

I think this is true to a point, regarding the attention. It reminds me of child behavioralists confirming that the negative attention of scolding is STILL attention to a child starved of it, and hence they learn the buttons to push. At some point, though, even Trump has to realize the cumulative affect of negative attention, right? RIGHT?? (crickets...)
Anyway, as to interpretation, I lean your way.

TomM
08/10/16 7:42 am

I'm long past the point with negative attention. I'm quite surprised polls don't show people being tired of it. His supporters are just very different or even more tired of Hillary. I don't know.

gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 8:04 am

Actually, I think those polls do exist. I think polls of "...people being tired of it" are manifested in the form of polls across the Country indicating Clinton's expanding/establishing her lead over Trump...

TomM
08/10/16 10:05 am

You may be right. At this point I don't know what to think about the candidates or believe from the media. It's a farce far beyond anything I remember from previous elections.

gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 10:11 am

Amen, to that!...

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
08/10/16 6:24 am

I'm thinking he is merely appealing to 2nd Amendment supporters to vote against her.

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 6:32 am

Yep. When all the zany froth is boiled away, I'm thinkin' THIS is what's left...

thatguy2 I am Antifa
08/10/16 6:09 am

As usual, liberals are just trying to twist Trump's words around to make him look bad. Assassination? Don't be ridiculous. All he wants is a non-controversial election outcome and knows that the best way to avoid a hanging chad situation is to shoot your ballot to make your selection. This is, in fact, the most American way to to vote, but I guess liberals wouldn't understand that.

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 6:55 am

tg2, your sarcasm is quite palpable (which I actually kinda like!), but look, even I know that Trump needs no help from liberals. He makes himself "look bad" just fine, all by his own self! But look, directly to the poll, I'm just not buyin' that Trump was surreptitiously 'dog-whistling' to 2nd Amendment zealots to gather for the purpose of murdering Hillary Clinton. Is it possible? Sure. ANYthing's possible. But, a cryptic call for assassination?!...
tg2, if I'm wrong, your drinks for THE EVENING, are covered!🍻

Brandon1995 San Francisco
08/10/16 5:59 am

Clinton has never called for abolishing the 2nd amendment. Her campaign websites states that, as president, she would expand background checks, close gun show loopholes, amd support a law that would make it illegal for those convicted of domestic violence to own guns. All seem like modest and resonable policies. Conservatives are so dishonest.

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 6:10 am

Brandon, on this we can agree. A President is unilaterally abolishing NO Amendment. The issue with her, is erosion. To this, Trump is right. It is altogether conceivable that a President Clinton could nominate SCOTUS Justices that would be amenable to affirming various firearms restrictions legislation, or even E.O.'s. Even writing that last sentence nearly makes me cringe!

Malekithe R lyeh
08/10/16 6:22 am

Hilliary never lies

dawl adulting
08/10/16 7:35 am

Vs. Trump nominating judges to overturn Roe vs. Wade.

gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 8:35 am

G'Mornin' Doll🤗! And yes, you are right. Candidates have staked their positions and WE will be responsible for forming a majority to make our collective consciousness be heard. Trump, however, is making it increasingly difficult for many to conscientiously place him in the position of being the voice for his constituency and Party. In the meantime, I'm just happy to be here with you!

dawl adulting
08/10/16 9:35 am

Thx Gonzo and likewise! 😊☕️
I just do not understand women voting for Trump, after reading this about Pence especially.
m.nuvo.net/indianapolis/after-pence-signed-hea-1337-womens-rights-in-indiana-are-dead/Content?oid=3880183

Malekithe R lyeh
08/10/16 11:06 am

Women who care about other issues more than abortion.
Economy/Jobs
Security
Preserving the constitution
Immigration

dawl adulting
08/10/16 11:32 am

Trump wouldn't know the constitution from a takeout menu.

Malekithe R lyeh
08/10/16 11:44 am

I think the assumption would be that he would select SCOTUS justices who would.

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
08/10/16 12:10 pm

Dawl, with all due respect & love, I don't understand how people think that ALL women support abortion or access to it or vote based entirely off a candidate's stance on the issue. 🙂

dawl adulting
08/11/16 8:25 am

Hi Bama! I understand that not all women support abortion for any reason. This is about more than that. A woman who's own life is in danger due to the baby will have that much harder time terminating the pregnancy under this kind of ruling. More testing, make her cremate the remains, wait a mandated number of hours,etc. it's a hard enough time.
The restrictions they have put in place in Indiana by old men who have no business regulating women's issues are so ridiculous that even conservative legislators have spoken out and voted against it.
Interesting how many people want less government until it comes to this. I respect people's position on abortion, I just think this kind of extensive ruling nationwide would be a disaster and a step backwards. We can totally agree to disagree :-) 😊

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
08/11/16 10:41 am

Dawl, about this, my friend, we will have to agree to disagree. I oppose all abortions for any reason. I'm not alone & for those who think the way that I do...this new law is not an overreach. 🙂

dawl adulting
08/13/16 8:32 am

Yes my friend we agree to disagree 💕😊.
Wish more people could do that in here lol!

jvc1133 61535
08/10/16 5:59 am

No loss she's Nuts. 😎

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 6:12 am

😳...

...😝

Malekithe R lyeh
08/10/16 5:42 am

Trump likes playing the media

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 5:43 am

Truth!!!

Brrrrrrrrr
08/10/16 5:27 am

The truth is he said both at the same time. He said vote against her because that's what he wants them to do, and he said assassinate her because that's when he wants the Trumpophobes to hear. It is not the first time he has used ambiguous statements to his advantage.
People must realize that Das Trümpenstaffel is playing 8D underwater non Newtonian outer space chess boxing.
The only question I have is whether prepares these things in advance or comes up with them on the fly. In other words, whether he's a grandmaster sensei or a grand-wizard class master-senseisei.

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 5:43 am

😂, that's pretty good, Brrrrrrrrr! My sensible, logical, rational side informs me Trumps words are unfortunate, not intended to elicit murder. However, YOUR comment speaks to my skeptical, cynical, dubious side, that tells me, "Don't believe anything you read, nothing you hear, and only half of what you see"!

gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 5:18 am

I'm quite entertained this morning by the chatter across various news organizations, dissecting The Donald. Of particular amusement, MSNBC and Joe Scarborough of "Morning Joe". He's absolutely convinced, and insists on convincing others who disagree, that Donald Trump has called out for the assassination of Hillary Clinton. He said there is no other explanation, and talk of misinterpretation is "deflecting". He likened Trump to Coach John Madden making it to a Super Bowl, and killing the opposing team instead of playing them. Oh brother...
Personally, I believe Trump suggests that 2nd Amendment folks would coalesce and organize as a National body to vote against a Clinton Presidency, denying her the ability to appoint SCOTUS Justices that may be hostile towards the 2nd Amendment. I DO NOT believe he was directly/indirectly calling upon 2nd Amendment enthusiast's to murder Ms. Clinton. I mean, REALLY??🙄

For those that can't open link from poll:
youtu.be/aZDSM1MonwE

...

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rons on top of the world MA
08/10/16 5:16 am

They found the wikileak leaker from her campaign dead. Nothing taken. Hmmm.

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EarlyBird Portland
08/10/16 5:11 am

Trump wasn't implying Clinton should be assassinated.

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 5:34 am

I agree, EB...

CMD1973 Oxford iowa
08/10/16 5:05 am

His rhetoric is dangerous and he knows it because he has been using code words throughout his campaign to destroy his opponents.

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/10/16 5:32 am

CMD, I can see how someone might use the word "dangerous" to describe Trumps unchecked, unvarnished, thoughtless quips. I think I might call his words irresponsible, irreverent, perhaps unhealthy. As far as "code", I'll disagree here as it pertains to his opponents. There's not much "code" in "Little Rubio", "Low-energy Jeb", "Lyin' Ted", "Crooked Hillary", etc. I think these references to his opponents are about as UNcoded as it gets, to the amusement of some, and consternation of others...

xxxceo Justice for All
08/10/16 9:50 am

It's funny how the people who always scream "you're a conspiracy right-wing nutjob" are now talking about Trump's "coded messages".
Just sayin...