I will try a new type of poll. I will out Artois answer choices in the comments, and you all like the choice you agree with. First one: How long, and for what, should abortion be allowed,
The little 14 year old girl isn't guilty either- why should she be forced to go through giving birth at such a young age when it wasn't even her fault?
I think being forced to have a baby that was not your fault when you are under 18 is more damaging than it is when you are over. Not to say both aren't damaging though.
SL - let's paraphrase: Being forced not to have your baby murdered just because you're under a certain age is somehow unfair enough to you that the baby's life simply doesn't matter.
And if I put it like that, does it not make you uncomfortable with your previous answer?
• ALL lives matter, or NO life matters.
• Being inconvenienced for several months, even as a young teenager, is NOT worse than being torn limb-from-limb inside your mother's body.
Inconvenienced for several months? That affects someone for their entire life.. And also, I do not condone ANY dismemberment abortions. Not all abortions are dismemberment.
It's not the value of life alone that concerns me, it's the value of innocent life. The unborn are far more innocent than anybody she knows. I just hope she eventually feels the pain that that she clearly has yet to understand.
Making your own bodily decisions is a natural human right. You don't have to like it, just don't attempt to tell me people they can't do it because you'll be wasting your breath.
You know what they say, "possession is 9/10ths of the law". At the moment, I don't feel like explaining how a fetus cannot survive independently of the mother, and why this ultimately means that it's part of the mother. Just pay attention when you take biology
Why don't you support throwing the sperm donor of an unwanted pregnancy in jail for the 9 months prior to birth, then, taking all wages, earnings, and inheritance and giving half to the baby?
You claimed its not natural. Remember? The first humans, and all of its ancestor species, never wore clothes. It's not natural so why do you do it Brandon? Tell me why you make the personal bodily decision to cover up if "not natural" is a legitimate reason to not do something in your opinion.
This whole thing about viability is a distraction, not to mention misguided.
The question is how much we value human life. To not recognize that an unborn baby is a separate human life from the mother is a lie.
Death being natural was mentioned. So is pregnancy and birth, but you want to unnaturally alter that. You cannot use natural death as an argument for abortion. There is absolutely no logic behind it.
Baloney. Equating an unborn fetus with a baby that has been born is flawed. Asserting that termination of a pregnancy is murder is misdirection. Implying that elective abortion is something new is a lie.
Reproduction has been the woman's choice for millennia. Midwives and wise women have known how to interrupt and prevent pregnancies for thousands of years.
The Bible even contains a passage that speaks of abortion in the event of adultery.
This idea that abortion is abomination was conceived upon as a means to control women and restrict their reproductive rights. It was imposed by men who laud claim to women and their offspring as property, not people in their own right.
Laser, stop being dense. You said that death was natural, but abortion is not natural so your logic is flawed. Nobody is making the argument that "it's unnatural so we shouldn't do it".
I didn't do anything that you said I did, Face. An unborn baby is as much of a human life as we are. That's not arguable. Saying its murder is not misdirection. At all. Please cite the Bible passage of which you speak.
There are two passages in Numbers that refer to a woman drinking something that causes a miscarriage. The interpretation of these passages is debated but I find the argument that they refer to intentional termination compelling. There are no passages specifically prohibiting termination, however. The assertion that it is forbidden is based in dogma and inference that is faulty, in my opinion.
BtW, I did not accuse you of saying or doing anything, I was listing my positions. 8)
When men have a fight and hurt a pregnant woman, so that she suffers a miscarriage, but no further injury, the guilty one shall be fined as much as the woman’s husband demands of him, and he shall pay in the presence of the judges. But if injury ensues, you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”
"If a man beget a hundred children, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, and his soul be not filled with good, and also that he have no burial; I say, that an untimely birth is better than he. For he cometh in with vanity, and departeth in darkness, and his name shall be covered with darkness. Moreover he hath not seen the sun, nor known any thing: this hath more rest than the other.”
"The total number of Levites counted at the Lord’s command by Moses and Aaron according to their clans, including every male a month old or more, was 22,000. The Lord said to Moses, ‘Count all the firstborn Israelite males who are a month old or more and make a list of their names.'”
"If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse.”
RJ's last quote is about aborting a pregnancy. It speaks in justification if it. There are NO passages speaking against abortion. It is all conjecture and inference and emotional appeals, like calling it murder - a position not supported by the quote regarding "a life for a life". Causing unlawful miscarriage results only in a fine.
For the record, while I do not view abortion as murder, I also prefer that unwanted pregnancies do not occur in the first place and believe in putting efforts to reducing the need/desire for elective abortion over criminalizing it. Contrary to the narrative, no woman chooses abortion lightly.
Taken from a great resource for faith questions: The Bible never specifically addresses the issue of abortion. However, there are numerous teachings in Scripture that make it abundantly clear what God’s view of abortion is. Jeremiah 1:5 tells us that God knows us before He forms us in the womb. Psalm 139:13-16 speaks of God’s active role in our creation and formation in the womb. Exodus 21:22-25 prescribes the same penalty—death—for someone who causes the death of a baby in the womb as for someone who commits murder. This clearly indicates that God considers a baby in the womb to be as human as a full-grown adult. For the Christian, abortion is not a matter of a woman’s right to choose. It is a matter of the life or death of a human being made in God’s image (Genesis 1:26-27; 9:6).
Trying to say the Bible justifies abortion is a straight lie that is unacceptable. The last passage does not justify choosing to kill a baby in the womb. Another lie.
You can't cherry pick verses and try to make them fit your narrative. You have to look at the whole story, as explained in the post.
But it really doesn't matter what stage the pregnancy is in. It's a human life from start to finish. Viability is a misdirection. So is "women's choice". You have a group that gained power by suppressing slaves to subhuman standard, now they're doing it again with the unborn and hiding behind "women's choice".
As for "cherry-picking" to suit ones narrative, cherry-picking is all and everything the So-called "Christian" right ever does. So, unless you intend to be known as a hypocrite rather than just suspected, I recommend backing up rapidly from that stance.
The word "miscarriage" in the Exodus passage means premature birth, not what we call in English a miscarriage. Again, look at the entirety of the Bible, not just one badly translated passage.
How dare you frame me as a hypocrite? You know nothing of me other than our interactions here, yet you intend to throw me in with those who you THINK are representative of me, all while ascribing to that group, without any evidence, the label of hypocrite? How ridiculous.
You believe and promote the lie that choice exists to hurt a certain segment of society for racist reasons. You bear false witness with malicious intent to harm the subject.
There is nothing direct or indirect in the Bible that speaks to terminating a pregnancy except in the case of a miscarriage resulting from violence, which as I have already pointed out is not treated the same as murder/taking a life.
Yes, I call you hypocrite. Try taking your lessons from the New Testament in the future.
Ha!! Planned parenthood may have started for racist reasons, but not abortion. Not sure where you got that idea from. I'm not trying to harm anyone. I'm trying to save the unborn from being literally pulled apart to death.
As I just explained, "miscarriage" in that passage does not mean the same thing as "miscarriage" does in English. Why are you still not looking at the whole context of the Bible?
I do look at the "whole" Context. My conclusions disagree with your own and there are many who share my understanding, just as there are others who agree with yours.
Shall we also agree to accept our differences and part (reasonably) amicably?
2¢
Maybe, but with the verses about creating us and knowing us before the womb, along with the actual translation of the passage in Exodus, why do you still think that it permits abortion?
Look I think the bible is a pile of 💩, but attempting to pull justification for abortion (which I support btw) out of a 2000 year old book is just hilariously sad and desperate. The bible doesn't justify abortion. You're reaching
New Jersey and New York are among the most liberal states. They would never outlaw abortion. However I'll never agree to a full outlaw of abortion. When did I ever say that?
You talked about state level. Things left to the state, generally don't necessarily line up with the will of the people. ,think things like gay marriage, slavery, brown v board of Ed. Meaning some things need to stay federal. ,ok. Change my original,examples to Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi.
Show of Hands
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