Show of HandsShow of Hands

Senate101 August 9th, 2016 4:09am

I will try a new type of poll. I will out Artois answer choices in the comments, and you all like the choice you agree with. First one: How long, and for what, should abortion be allowed,

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Comments: Add Comment

Nik
08/09/16 4:43 pm

It's not the government's place to make these decisions!
Each person will live with what was done for the rest of their lives.

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catpillow Florida West Coast
08/09/16 5:53 pm

πŸ‘πŸΌπŸ‘πŸΌπŸ‘πŸΌπŸ‘πŸΌπŸ‘πŸΌ

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
08/09/16 2:46 pm

Under only one circumstance: an ectopic or tubal pregnancy which will kill both the child and the mother. Otherwise, never.

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autumn2 California
08/09/16 11:22 am

<3 months for everyone or when a life is in danger, risk of birth defects, rape cases, ect.

chinito Florida
08/09/16 9:36 am

I believe that the essence of a human being is the brain. So until the brain is formed (about 5-6 week of pregnancy). Anything after that is murder.

SouthernLaw Old North State
08/09/16 7:38 am

Only allowed when it endangers the life of the mother and in the case of rape of a girl 18 or younger.

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
08/09/16 2:49 pm

Why any cases of rape? The child isn't guilty, and doesn't deserve the death penalty!

SouthernLaw Old North State
08/09/16 4:25 pm

The little 14 year old girl isn't guilty either- why should she be forced to go through giving birth at such a young age when it wasn't even her fault?

jvberg Winter has Come
08/09/16 6:09 pm

Southern, still curious why you think the cut off should be at 18 and not any age for being raped?

SouthernLaw Old North State
08/09/16 6:15 pm

I think being forced to have a baby that was not your fault when you are under 18 is more damaging than it is when you are over. Not to say both aren't damaging though.

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
08/09/16 6:40 pm

SL - let's paraphrase: Being forced not to have your baby murdered just because you're under a certain age is somehow unfair enough to you that the baby's life simply doesn't matter.

That's what you're saying.

SouthernLaw Old North State
08/09/16 6:56 pm

I guess you could put it like that..

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
08/09/16 8:16 pm

And if I put it like that, does it not make you uncomfortable with your previous answer?
• ALL lives matter, or NO life matters.
• Being inconvenienced for several months, even as a young teenager, is NOT worse than being torn limb-from-limb inside your mother's body.

SouthernLaw Old North State
08/10/16 3:51 am

Inconvenienced for several months? That affects someone for their entire life.. And also, I do not condone ANY dismemberment abortions. Not all abortions are dismemberment.

17millionTwats Leeds, UK
08/09/16 5:39 am

Same as UK law - 24 weeks - later for health risks, incest, rape and all that jazz

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/09/16 3:22 am

Until independent viability: that is until development is sufficient to survive outside the womb without medical intervention.

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FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/09/16 4:09 am

and always in cases where the life of the mother is endangered or the child produced is fatally malformed.

Malekithe R,lyeh
08/09/16 2:37 am

It should be retroactive in some cases

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sfcren Wyoming
08/08/16 11:28 pm

Up until viability, except in cases where one or both of the lives are in danger.

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Laserbeam Crazy bird lady
08/08/16 9:28 pm

Allowed until the mother goes into labor.

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Carcano Thin Blue Line
08/08/16 10:06 pm

Lmao what a joke.

Carcano Thin Blue Line
08/08/16 10:19 pm

When human life is in question, yes, I do tend to get mad at disgusting people who have no respect for it.

Carcano Thin Blue Line
08/08/16 10:22 pm

Good. I hope someone close to you dies so you can understand the value of human life.

Laserbeam Crazy bird lady
08/08/16 10:23 pm

Death is not something to be afraid of, my friend.

Praetorianus Fair enough.
08/08/16 10:25 pm

Wishing for someone to die to make someone else acknowledge the value of life isn't pro life, the price is too high.

Laserbeam Crazy bird lady
08/08/16 10:25 pm

Yeah prae, I figured out how full of shit he is when he said that.

Carcano Thin Blue Line
08/08/16 10:28 pm

It's not the value of life alone that concerns me, it's the value of innocent life. The unborn are far more innocent than anybody she knows. I just hope she eventually feels the pain that that she clearly has yet to understand.

Laserbeam Crazy bird lady
08/08/16 10:33 pm

My mom has been dead for 21 years. Death is a natural occurrence. It's not to be feared.

Carcano Thin Blue Line
08/08/16 10:35 pm

Abortion is not a natural occurrence. Stop trying to justify your support for murder.

Laserbeam Crazy bird lady
08/08/16 10:44 pm

Making your own bodily decisions is a natural human right. You don't have to like it, just don't attempt to tell me people they can't do it because you'll be wasting your breath.

Brandon2018 Stocks Are Overvalued
08/08/16 10:51 pm

The unborn is not part of your body. It is its own individual body that is just in your body for 9 months until it can live in its own.

RJ1969 SoCal
08/08/16 10:54 pm

Then have it surgically removed and handed over to the father. Done.

RJ1969 SoCal
08/08/16 10:55 pm

"Abortion is not a natural occurrence"

Most pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion.

Laserbeam Crazy bird lady
08/08/16 10:56 pm

You know what they say, "possession is 9/10ths of the law". At the moment, I don't feel like explaining how a fetus cannot survive independently of the mother, and why this ultimately means that it's part of the mother. Just pay attention when you take biology

Brandon2018 Stocks Are Overvalued
08/08/16 10:56 pm

Artificial abortion Is not natural

RJ1969 SoCal
08/08/16 10:57 pm

Neither is farming or wearing clothes. Your point?

Laserbeam Crazy bird lady
08/08/16 10:58 pm

Neither is chemotherapy. So we shouldn't do it rite

Brandon2018 Stocks Are Overvalued
08/08/16 10:58 pm

I took biology. They never mentioned that.

Laserbeam Crazy bird lady
08/08/16 10:59 pm

If they never explained mammalian reproduction, then... I guess that's public school for you. Google it I guess lol

RJ1969 SoCal
08/08/16 10:59 pm

You must have missed the mammal section.

Brandon2018 Stocks Are Overvalued
08/08/16 10:59 pm

Why are you comparing abortion with wearing clothes and farming? BTW farming is natural.

Brandon2018 Stocks Are Overvalued
08/08/16 11:00 pm

I'm tired. Have fun killing babies, Laser!

RJ1969 SoCal
08/08/16 11:00 pm

Why don't you support throwing the sperm donor of an unwanted pregnancy in jail for the 9 months prior to birth, then, taking all wages, earnings, and inheritance and giving half to the baby?

Laserbeam Crazy bird lady
08/08/16 11:01 pm

You claimed its not natural. Remember? The first humans, and all of its ancestor species, never wore clothes. It's not natural so why do you do it Brandon? Tell me why you make the personal bodily decision to cover up if "not natural" is a legitimate reason to not do something in your opinion.

RJ1969 SoCal
08/08/16 11:01 pm

Next time I get on a tractor to spray liquified nitrogen compounds on GMO plants, I'll remember how natural it is.

Laserbeam Crazy bird lady
08/08/16 11:02 pm

I definitely will if I ever get the opportunity, Brandon. It'll be a blast.

Brandon2018 Stocks Are Overvalued
08/08/16 11:04 pm

That's not the farming i was talking about. And I don't agree with them spraying chemicals on plants. I'll continue this tomorrow morning

Laserbeam Crazy bird lady
08/08/16 11:06 pm

Please tell me why you wear underwear Brandon. It's so unnatural. You shouldn't do it.

Brandon2018 Stocks Are Overvalued
08/08/16 11:08 pm

Your sarcasm is showing. Stop making my screen light up please. I am trying to sleep.

Laserbeam Crazy bird lady
08/08/16 11:10 pm

Do you wipe your ass with toilet paper? So unnatural. They kill trees to make that. Trees are living organisms. You need to start valuing life.

PrinceOberyn Io Himeros
08/08/16 11:24 pm

"Good. I hope someone close to you dies so you can understand the value of human life."

Wishing for someone to die is also one of the cuntiest things you can do. Reported.

madconservative President Trump
08/09/16 1:00 am

Some peoples mothers should have aborted them

dominiclandry
08/09/16 3:49 am

This whole thing about viability is a distraction, not to mention misguided.

The question is how much we value human life. To not recognize that an unborn baby is a separate human life from the mother is a lie.

Death being natural was mentioned. So is pregnancy and birth, but you want to unnaturally alter that. You cannot use natural death as an argument for abortion. There is absolutely no logic behind it.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/09/16 4:07 am

Baloney. Equating an unborn fetus with a baby that has been born is flawed. Asserting that termination of a pregnancy is murder is misdirection. Implying that elective abortion is something new is a lie.

Reproduction has been the woman's choice for millennia. Midwives and wise women have known how to interrupt and prevent pregnancies for thousands of years.

The Bible even contains a passage that speaks of abortion in the event of adultery.

This idea that abortion is abomination was conceived upon as a means to control women and restrict their reproductive rights. It was imposed by men who laud claim to women and their offspring as property, not people in their own right.

Carcano Thin Blue Line
08/09/16 4:35 am

Laser, stop being dense. You said that death was natural, but abortion is not natural so your logic is flawed. Nobody is making the argument that "it's unnatural so we shouldn't do it".

Carcano Thin Blue Line
08/09/16 4:36 am

Prince, WAH WAH you called me a cunt! Reported!

Ignore me if I trigger you. Stop being a little baby.

Carcano Thin Blue Line
08/09/16 4:39 am

An infant can't survive on its own either. Therefore we should be able to kill them.

Degenerate logic

dominiclandry
08/09/16 5:21 am

I didn't do anything that you said I did, Face. An unborn baby is as much of a human life as we are. That's not arguable. Saying its murder is not misdirection. At all. Please cite the Bible passage of which you speak.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/09/16 8:11 am

There are two passages in Numbers that refer to a woman drinking something that causes a miscarriage. The interpretation of these passages is debated but I find the argument that they refer to intentional termination compelling. There are no passages specifically prohibiting termination, however. The assertion that it is forbidden is based in dogma and inference that is faulty, in my opinion.

BtW, I did not accuse you of saying or doing anything, I was listing my positions. 8)


dominiclandry
08/09/16 9:59 am

Can you provide the verses?

logicwins
08/09/16 10:05 am

I believe the correct term is miscarriage. Abortion is the deliberate termination of a pregnancy. Nothing natural about that.

RJ1969 SoCal
08/09/16 10:32 am

Look up the definitions of each

CoffeeNow CCP virus
08/09/16 2:17 pm

Am I too late for this thread? πŸ˜•

RJ1969 SoCal
08/09/16 3:10 pm

Do you want me to look them up.

RJ1969 SoCal
08/09/16 3:15 pm

When men have a fight and hurt a pregnant woman, so that she suffers a miscarriage, but no further injury, the guilty one shall be fined as much as the woman’s husband demands of him, and he shall pay in the presence of the judges. But if injury ensues, you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.”

RJ1969 SoCal
08/09/16 3:16 pm

"If a man beget a hundred children, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, and his soul be not filled with good, and also that he have no burial; I say, that an untimely birth is better than he. For he cometh in with vanity, and departeth in darkness, and his name shall be covered with darkness. Moreover he hath not seen the sun, nor known any thing: this hath more rest than the other.”

RJ1969 SoCal
08/09/16 3:16 pm

"The total number of Levites counted at the Lord’s command by Moses and Aaron according to their clans, including every male a month old or more, was 22,000. The Lord said to Moses, ‘Count all the firstborn Israelite males who are a month old or more and make a list of their names.'”

RJ1969 SoCal
08/09/16 3:17 pm

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”

RJ1969 SoCal
08/09/16 3:17 pm

"If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse.”

dominiclandry
08/09/16 8:17 pm

No references? Also, nothing in that is pro abortion

CoffeeNow CCP virus
08/09/16 8:35 pm

I assume RJ is saying something retarded

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/09/16 11:47 pm

RJ's last quote is about aborting a pregnancy. It speaks in justification if it. There are NO passages speaking against abortion. It is all conjecture and inference and emotional appeals, like calling it murder - a position not supported by the quote regarding "a life for a life". Causing unlawful miscarriage results only in a fine.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/10/16 3:31 am

For the record, while I do not view abortion as murder, I also prefer that unwanted pregnancies do not occur in the first place and believe in putting efforts to reducing the need/desire for elective abortion over criminalizing it. Contrary to the narrative, no woman chooses abortion lightly.

dominiclandry
08/10/16 3:42 am

Taken from a great resource for faith questions: The Bible never specifically addresses the issue of abortion. However, there are numerous teachings in Scripture that make it abundantly clear what God’s view of abortion is. Jeremiah 1:5 tells us that God knows us before He forms us in the womb. Psalm 139:13-16 speaks of God’s active role in our creation and formation in the womb. Exodus 21:22-25 prescribes the same penalty—death—for someone who causes the death of a baby in the womb as for someone who commits murder. This clearly indicates that God considers a baby in the womb to be as human as a full-grown adult. For the Christian, abortion is not a matter of a woman’s right to choose. It is a matter of the life or death of a human being made in God’s image (Genesis 1:26-27; 9:6).

Trying to say the Bible justifies abortion is a straight lie that is unacceptable. The last passage does not justify choosing to kill a baby in the womb. Another lie.

dominiclandry
08/10/16 3:46 am

You can't cherry pick verses and try to make them fit your narrative. You have to look at the whole story, as explained in the post.

But it really doesn't matter what stage the pregnancy is in. It's a human life from start to finish. Viability is a misdirection. So is "women's choice". You have a group that gained power by suppressing slaves to subhuman standard, now they're doing it again with the unborn and hiding behind "women's choice".

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/10/16 3:52 am

No that passage in Exodus does not prescribe death for causing a woman to miscarry, only if "mischief follows" do the the next verses apply.

Declaring it to be a lie, does not make it so.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/10/16 3:54 am

As for "cherry-picking" to suit ones narrative, cherry-picking is all and everything the So-called "Christian" right ever does. So, unless you intend to be known as a hypocrite rather than just suspected, I recommend backing up rapidly from that stance.

dominiclandry
08/10/16 4:08 am

The word "miscarriage" in the Exodus passage means premature birth, not what we call in English a miscarriage. Again, look at the entirety of the Bible, not just one badly translated passage.

How dare you frame me as a hypocrite? You know nothing of me other than our interactions here, yet you intend to throw me in with those who you THINK are representative of me, all while ascribing to that group, without any evidence, the label of hypocrite? How ridiculous.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/10/16 4:17 am

You believe and promote the lie that choice exists to hurt a certain segment of society for racist reasons. You bear false witness with malicious intent to harm the subject.

There is nothing direct or indirect in the Bible that speaks to terminating a pregnancy except in the case of a miscarriage resulting from violence, which as I have already pointed out is not treated the same as murder/taking a life.

Yes, I call you hypocrite. Try taking your lessons from the New Testament in the future.

dominiclandry
08/10/16 4:39 am

Ha!! Planned parenthood may have started for racist reasons, but not abortion. Not sure where you got that idea from. I'm not trying to harm anyone. I'm trying to save the unborn from being literally pulled apart to death.

As I just explained, "miscarriage" in that passage does not mean the same thing as "miscarriage" does in English. Why are you still not looking at the whole context of the Bible?

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/10/16 5:27 am

I do look at the "whole" Context. My conclusions disagree with your own and there are many who share my understanding, just as there are others who agree with yours.

Shall we also agree to accept our differences and part (reasonably) amicably?

dominiclandry
08/10/16 5:36 am

Maybe, but with the verses about creating us and knowing us before the womb, along with the actual translation of the passage in Exodus, why do you still think that it permits abortion?

CoffeeNow CCP virus
08/10/16 8:58 am

Look I think the bible is a pile of πŸ’©, but attempting to pull justification for abortion (which I support btw) out of a 2000 year old book is just hilariously sad and desperate. The bible doesn't justify abortion. You're reaching

CoffeeNow CCP virus
08/10/16 8:58 am

There, that should piss everyone off

dominiclandry
08/10/16 9:38 am

The age of something has no bearing on its validity

Senate101 San Diego
08/08/16 9:26 pm

BY THE WAY- Comment under each tab if you have minor tweaks to the policies.

Senate101 San Diego
08/08/16 9:26 pm

Thanks, bluerum.

Senate101 San Diego
08/08/16 9:11 pm

Allowed on demand

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Praetorianus Fair enough.
08/08/16 10:19 pm

As long as the baby demands it 😏

RJ1969 SoCal
08/08/16 10:56 pm

They didn't object when asked.

Senate101 San Diego
08/08/16 9:11 pm

Allowed until 23 weeks for all purposes, ban after that with exceptions for life

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Senate101 San Diego
08/08/16 9:11 pm

Allowed until 20 weeks for all purposes, ban after that with exceptions for life, rape, incest

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Senate101 San Diego
08/08/16 9:10 pm

Allowed in case of rape, incest, or life of the mother

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bluerum29 optimistic idealist
08/08/16 9:23 pm

This but also in cases of health issues of the baby.

Brandon2018 Stocks Are Overvalued
08/08/16 10:49 pm

This one suits me. But the states should make this decision.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/09/16 3:18 am

"the state should make that decision"? So the state has rights over a woman's body and how she chooses to use it?

Interesting perspective. And a LOT intrusive.

I think the State has no business in my reproductive options.

MrsCrayonWax Kathys Klown
08/09/16 6:57 am

I'll agree but it should be federal.

Brandon2018 Stocks Are Overvalued
08/09/16 7:38 am

Im saying the national government shouldn't be able to make this law. I support that decision is what I am trying to say.

MrsCrayonWax Kathys Klown
08/09/16 8:33 am

But if NY and NJ decide to outlaw abortion, a woman in legitimate need has to then travel to PA, MA, or OH?

Brandon2018 Stocks Are Overvalued
08/10/16 9:04 am

New Jersey and New York are among the most liberal states. They would never outlaw abortion. However I'll never agree to a full outlaw of abortion. When did I ever say that?

MrsCrayonWax Kathys Klown
08/10/16 9:37 am

You talked about state level. Things left to the state, generally don't necessarily line up with the will of the people. ,think things like gay marriage, slavery, brown v board of Ed. Meaning some things need to stay federal. ,ok. Change my original,examples to Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi.

Senate101 San Diego
08/08/16 9:10 pm

Allowed in case of life of the mother

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Praetorianus Fair enough.
08/08/16 9:49 pm

That plus if the baby suffers from an extremely debilitating birth defect such as anencephaly.

www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/birthdefects/Anencephaly.html

Senate101 San Diego
08/08/16 9:10 pm

Total and Absolute ban

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