Show of HandsShow of Hands

Comments: Add Comment

chinito Florida
04/23/16 4:03 am

There is no such thing as free

nib
04/23/16 7:06 am

Completely? Meaning what? Cough drops? Condoms? Colonoscopies? Vegetables? Vasectomies? Liposuction? Breast reduction? Psychotherapy? Hypnotherapy? Massage therapy? Vitamins? Laxatives? Exercise equipment? Personal trainers? Dietitians? Viagra? Orthodontia?

chinito Florida
04/23/16 7:36 am

And I fail to understand how the whole "libertarian" and "free" work together. Who is forcing who to give free healthcare? Or who is paying?

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
04/23/16 8:50 am

I advocate anarcho-communism. In this system, health care can be completely free beyond the labor that doctors and scientists do to provide medicine and stuff.

chinito Florida
04/23/16 9:21 am

I don't understand. Who pay the doctors, the medicines? Who will do the research? Who will take care of an ill patient?

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
04/23/16 9:24 am

Doctors take care of ill patients. Scientists do research. All industries would work this way. Just as patients would have free health care, the hungry have free food.

nib
04/23/16 9:32 am

Then where does the minimum wage come in? Does everyone work for free?

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
04/23/16 9:36 am

Everyone works for free, yes. And people would get the products produced by the labor for free.

chinito Florida
04/23/16 10:12 am

Hahaha. And that's going to work.

chinito Florida
04/23/16 11:07 am

Because it is totally contrary to human nature. It has never worked and it will never work. People don't sacrifice without knowing that they will have a sizable return. Let alone undertaking a several men project to research and/or innovate something that may or may not succeed.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
04/23/16 11:17 am

So you're saying that people won't do anything without a *financial* reward? I disagree. For starters, an incentive does not have to be monetary. Doing something because you enjoy it is a reasonable incentive in my opinion. Some people enjoy certain tasks. Also most people get something out of helping others. It makes them feel good.

chinito Florida
04/23/16 12:04 pm

People like helping others. But when you are in a communist society you cannot notice the difference your work is doing. If you become more productive, the increase will be divided between everyone making your work unnoticeable. So basically, it doesn't feel like you are helping nobody. The same happens with a decrease in productivity. If you decrease production, get late to work, mess up... You won't feel the consequences. So you don't see the benefit of working harder.

chinito Florida
04/23/16 12:08 pm

Have you ever made a group project and someone doesn't work but still wants his name in the work? This happens with everyone because everyone gets the same grade and the effort you put in it doesn't matter.

It has happened every time. You are going to be able to find small scale society that functioned like this for a little while, but they ultimately collapsed.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
04/23/16 12:14 pm

The incentive of doing a job one enjoys overrides the scenario you outlined. And the part about feeling good from helping others primarily applies to doctors and the like.

chinito Florida
04/23/16 12:46 pm

Because so many people enjoy being a janitor, construction worker, trash collectors or a plumbers.

Because everyone prefer being early to work rather than staying in bed for a little longer.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
04/23/16 1:21 pm

Well there are some tasks that would have to be done, and all members of a community or workplace would have to rotate doing them.

chinito Florida
04/24/16 5:05 am

DrW, you are a smart guy. You can't possibly believe that would work.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
04/24/16 7:58 am

Why wouldn't it? Here's my break down of types of labor. Under communism, we wouldn't have private sector jobs. Insurance companies wouldn't exist, etc. That leaves us with manufacturing jobs, agricultural jobs, and what I'll call "community service" jobs, like picking up trash and the like. I think we could easily have enough food for the world if only people who wanted to farm went into farming. Likewise for manufacturing jobs, although I personally as an extreme conservationist wouldn't mind seeing a decrease in manufacturing. That leaves us with community service jobs. Of course there would be some people who would do them voluntarily, but we could have a system where everyone has a quota of hours of community service every week to get that labor done.

chinito Florida
04/24/16 9:33 am

"I think we could easily have enough food for the world if only people who wanted to farm went into farming." ... Really? Farming is hard. When I lived in a kibbutz nobody liked those jobs.

chinito Florida
04/24/16 9:35 am

And do you really think we could find enough people that will choose to work in manufacturing?

chinito Florida
04/24/16 9:37 am

And for your "quotas", who will establish them? How will you enforce it?

chinito Florida
04/24/16 9:39 am

And you left outside the most important thing: innovation. Who will design the new iphone? Who will find the cure for cancer? Who will take us to Mars?

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
04/24/16 11:14 am

I get that farming is strenuous, but I can't picture running out of farmers.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
04/24/16 11:16 am

Quotas will be created by the people within the community, I don't imagine they will be *strictly* enforced, but a lot of these specifics would be determined by each community, and could be drastically different.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
04/24/16 11:20 am

As for innovation, I imagine there would be no problem. Capitalism suppresses creativity to create obedient workers. Creativity would be encouraged, rather than discouraged, so innovation would still happen, but to make life better, not to make money.

nib
04/24/16 11:27 am

If only it were so, Doc.
In the meantime, how would we get to that inhuman state without catastrophe or revolution - or, more likely, both?
I'm opting out.
Leave us Texas, why don't you, and try your little experiment. I'm assuming your borders will be open if I change my mind.

nib
04/24/16 11:27 am

If only it were so, Doc.
In the meantime, how would we get to that inhuman state without catastrophe or revolution - or, more likely, both?
I'm opting out.
Leave us Texas, why don't you, and try your little experiment. I'm assuming your borders will be open if I change my mind.

chinito Florida
04/24/16 12:23 pm

DrW, your logic is flawed. And history is the best proof. It has been tried and it has failed miserably every time.

Every innovation has been the product of capitalism or government. Your mentality kills both things