Are you a Christian?
No. I was influenced by my readings in the Eastern religions. Christianity just doesn't fit the bill. I have a great respect for all religious beliefs however. I don't respect any intolerance towards non-belivers.
Nope, Jewish. (Converted from Christianity, though, lol)
I broke away from that slave-mentality cult shit long ago
I was but I managed to escape
WHAT A BEAUTIFUL MAP!!
EVERY SINGLE STATE IS MAJORITY CHRISTIAN!!!
ahh religious diversity at its finest
Why would it be less beautiful if Christianity were not the majority?
4% of Jewish people are Christians.
I am no longer a believer in Jesus of Nazareth. I don't know the exact number but many Christian and Muslims have to convert to Judaism. My sister raised a Roman Catholic converted.
96% of 'Other Christians' are christian.
I'm a Catholic Christian and proud of it.
Jesus Christ that map tho
Makes me happy
Yes I am.
LMFAO @ the Democratic response. It just goes to show that Democrats are HEATHENS!!! 😂😂😂😂😂
I actually know a lot of democrats who are christian so..
It was a joke.
I also wonder how many of the people who answered yes are people who just believe in God vs. people who are actually living a life for Christ?
What would you call them if they were just people who believed in Him?
I suppose I'd just call them believers, as opposed to Christ-followers.
I also wonder how many of them pee in the shower. Probably about 80%
For the record, I am a Christ follower.
. . .and I pee in the shower.
Is this a man thing?
Dfish is just trolling me cuz I think peeing in the shower is gross. Don't mind him.
Haha cello got it. I'm just messin
Yeh I know. :p
I will forever wonder why 4% of Protestants, 6% of Catholics, and 4% of Other Christians answered no to this question. I will also forever wonder why 1% of Jews, 4% of Buddhists, 11% of Agnostics, and 23% of Other Religions voted yes for this question.
I answered no as a Catholic because I'm consistently told I'm not a Christian and that I'm a member of a cult. I don't answer Christian anymore. I believe in Christ but I'm a catholic.
I'm not Catholic, but I wouldn't call it a cult. That's just me though. I don't really know much about the Catholic belief system.
I'm non-denom charismatic, so I'm constantly told I'm in a cult, too. I know how it is. 😅
I'm one that doesn't believe Catholicism is Christian. Catholicism says you can get to heaven on good enough works in stead of pure faith and grace given by Christ. It also says it's ok to pray to humans instead of God himself. The two are similar in a lot of ways, but different on the very critical points.
I'm not sure you have an understanding of it. We don't pray to humans. Catholics use intercession prayer. Like asking a friend to pray also. We don't worship saints. And we don't believed we are saved by works alone. That part of the many misconceptions Protestants have about us. When we hear things like what you said about us not being Christian, I ask, why when we've historically been here longest? Pre dating Protestantism.
If Its intercession prayer, then why do you ask for it from someone who is no longer living on this earth? Peter or Mary can't go to God and say, "hey I have an extra important request from so so. Can you handle that?" God doesn't work like that, and neither does anyone who's in heaven. Also, why do you confess to a human? A priest is just as imperfect as you and I are. Why would you confess to him? He doesn't have the power to forgive you, only God does. So why wouldn't you go to God directly about your sins? Jesus coming and dying for us gave us that access. That was the significance of the veil being torn. The point of that was that we no longer had to go through a priest to have access to God. We can get to him anywhere and however we want to.
Those are your beliefs. A human doesn't forgive us. It's more like counsel. We believe the saints are a little better equipped to carry our prayers. You don't have to pray for their intercession. May I ask what your faith is and why you feel yours is the correct one and that you can tear mine apart because of something your pastor or "elect" told you that was incorrect?
You may not agree with how we do things and that's fine. I was an evangelical and I can rattle off 20 things they do that I find abhorrent. I don't think that makes them non Christians, just misguided in their practices.
I'm Christian. Meaning I read the Bible as a whole and go by what it says. If it's not in the Bible, then there's no evidence for a particular view (like a once living human being able to hear our prayers). Nowhere in the Bible does it say to confess to another human, pray to a human in heaven, or anything like that. If it's not in the Bible, then why would I do it? You do believe the Bible is perfect and infallible right? If so then why would you add or take anything away from it?
I believe a lot of it is allegorical. Do you believe in the rapture? That's not in the bible.
What do you mean by it is allegorical?
And the prayer of salvation?
Allegory: a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one.
In other words do I believe the ark story or the garden of Eden or Jonah and the whale literally? No. They are more allegorical.
If you can't believe the entire Bible as it is written then that's a problem? Jesus did say that if you're not for Him you're against Him. If you can't take what he said literally then you can't be for Him. Are you a representative of all or most Catholics? Or is that your personal opinion?
I didn't say Jesus. I said specific Old Testament examples and this is just my opinion.
And you didn't answer my question. Do you believe in the rapture?
Well Jesus was present when those things in the ot happened because Jesus is God. You know how it says in Gen 1:26 it says let US crest man in OUR image...? That's referencing the trinity. So if God did it, that means Jesus did as well. Remember when three men appeared before Jacob in his tent? That was God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost.
And yes I whole heartedly believe in the rapture.
Ok I started reading some of that but didn't read all of it. I personally believe that everything in the Bible is gospel, and anything practiced that isn't Biblical is false teachings and is therefore sin. I especially don't believe or support the ideas that the Bible is metaphorical and shouldn't be taken literally. The Bible was written by people inspired by the Holy Spirit—meaning it's straight from God himself. God is a pretty smart guy, I don't think He would've given us His Holy Book if it contained anything that wasn't right or true. That would make absolutely zero sense. I believe in the Bible, the direct and literal word of God.
That said, no matter what any person identifies as, be it Catholic, Protestant, etc, the real Christian is the one who follows God's teachings, and only God's teachings, or teachings that God wanted included in His book. All others are mistaken. That's the way I see things.
I completely agree
Dlee, the rapture exists no where in the bible. Talk about making things up. That is not an event spelled out but taken out of context from a few verses. How can you criticize me when you think the rapture is real?
Ok just finished reading it—the rapture is Biblical.
Well I'm glad you have both decided I'n no Christian. Going back to my original point. I believe in my Jesus as my lord and savior. He asks us simply "believe in me." So since you both have decided I'm not Christian, I'm not worried. I know where my salvation lies. May God continue to richly bless you both.
It IS NOT biblical.
Please show me where in the bible that there is an event called the rapture and the verses surrounding it. It simply isn't there.
1 Thessalonians 4:17, 1 Corinthians 15:52, Matthew 24:42, and Luke 12:40 are just a few references to the rapture. No the Bible doesn't directly call it "the rapture", but it is no disputing the fact that it is in the Bible and that it will happen.
There is no secret second coming. To believe I. The rapture is to call God a liar and if you believe the book and the Lord are infallible then you are in big trouble by believing in something not written in his word. He's not a liar and has laid out Christ's return specifically. To speak in your terms.
Sad. I feel sad for you. You sit in judgement of me but you take the evangelically approved verses that are called the rapture and that movies have taken liberties with and you believe what "scholars" have told you. Do your research. It is not an event in the bible. But that's all I'll say. And not all Christians believe it's real. Some very well respected folks here will tell you the same thing.
So then, please explain to me exactly what is happening in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17?
Wait I never said you're not a Christian.
What do you mean there's no second coming? The Bible says Jesus will return. If he wasn't coming back for us there wouldn't really be a point in living for him other than to go to heaven, which makes the whole concept an act of selfish-ambition rather than out of love for Christ and other people.
Anyways, I don't want there to be an argument. I just stated what I believe earlier. I didn't read all of what you guys said, just skimmed it so if I said anything that was redundant or offensive, my bad. Also, if there's any tension between you guys, please either let it go or try to resolve it. I don't mind a civil discussion, but I won't argue, and I'd appreciate if I didn't get notifications popping up every few minutes.
Cello, the rapture isn't the second coming. I said there wasn't a secret second coming, I.e, the rapture. Christ came one time and comes back a second. That's it. Book of revelations.
The rapture is Jesus's second coming, or part of it anyways. And it's no secret. The Bible says when He returns the sky will open up and all will see and know of his return. Then those who trusted in Him will join him in the sky.
For all who said God and the Bible were lies. How many of you have read the Bible?
Most of us who have stated the bible is full of myths have read the book yes.
I find it hard to believe that most have read the Bible. How would you know that? I'll take your word that you have. I have found that a lot who don't believe have never opened the Bible. I'm a Christian, and I haven't read the entire Bible. I'm working on it though. Before I was saved I had only read a little bit of the Old Testament. I think it's odd that you're answering for everybody.
I'm a Christian too but haven't read the whole thing. It's not easy sometimes and I would rather read it out of a desire to learn more than because "I'm suppose to" so just gotta keep praying God gives me more of a desire to get into the Word
I'm an atheist and I have read the entire Bible twice (KJV & NLV). I've also read the Torah, the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, and a few other "sacred" texts. I'm always amazed at those faithful who haven't. What are you waiting for? I don't understand.
I have read if not all darn close, I also have read many apoligetics books. I wouldnt say the Bible is full of lies, but there are a lot of issues I have with the God that is represented in it.
Yeliretan, It was hard for me to understand the KJV, so I had a hard time understanding the Bible. Maybe you can try KJVer (easy reader), or NASB. Those versions are the closest to the KJV, but are a lot easier to understand. My Dad told me to read the New Testament before the Old Testament, and start with the book of John. I move around the New Testament. Proverbs might be something to start with.
sfcren, I love reading Apologetics! I'm not good at Apologetics, though. If you don't mind me asking, what issues do you have with how the Bible represents God?
Sailletree, I do think as a Christian it's important to learn what other religions are about, but I haven't finished reading the Bible yet! Give me a break! 🙂 Honestly, I have no interest in reading the Torah, The Koran, etc.. right now.
The biggest issue I have is with the concept of the trinity. The Old Testament, which is essentially the history and beliefs of the Jewish people, portrays a very different god than that of Jesus, yet they are supposed to be one in the same.
Yaweh behaves very harshly and at times contradictory.
For example, Yaweh punishes the Egyptians because the Pharoah wouldnt let his chosen people, (the Jews) go, though in the same story its says Yaweh hardened the heart of Paroah. This kind of stuff makes me say what is going on?
Anyone who seriously "believes" the bible is nuts. Most people read it and know a lot of the stories too far fetched. They are moved by the Psalms, Proverbs, verses.. The hate, mocking is just stupid and that's both sides
You should pray that God teaches you how to read and write
Pretty sure I accurately retold that story, care to explain?
This is a subject that a lot of us aren't going to agree on. We'll have to agree to disagree. I just felt I should share my story about what God has done in my life. There are so many miracles that God does everyday. His miracles defy science, and are unexplainable. I have seen them. Everybody else has too, but most are too close minded too accept them. The devil is real too! I've felt his presence also. It was horrible! He tried to destroy me! I hope the Devil doesn't try to do the same to any of you. If he does, you know who to turn too!
Christianity is the classic snake oil salesman: Tells you you're born sick with a fake illness so it can sell you the cure for the rest of your life.
Yes, heads you owe me tails you still owe me.
It's amazing to me how people can be so wrong about Christianity. Why do you feel that way? I am a sinner. I have done things that the Bible has told me not to do. A lot of things actually. I strayed away from Christianity. After straying my life fell apart. I went through hard times that I couldn't fix myself. Things that were so hard to go through alone. I lost 2 babies, 3 close family members, health problems (fell and herniated 4 disks, diagnosed with crohn's disease), emotionally and physically abused, and my sister who spread horrible lies and called CPS multiple times. All if this in a 4 yr period. My family turned their back on me due to my sisters lies. I turned to God to help me. I truly found God when I was alone. It's amazing how he has helped me. Lies became clear, husband is now supportive and not abusive, back and stomach no longer hurt, CPS dismissed cases and is looking into all the false claims. I repented my sins, I was forgiven, I pray, and God is AMAZING!
Wow that breaks my heart. I'm so sorry. Really, I am. and I wouldn't wish any of that on my worst enemy. But from my atheist perspective I just can't see any miracles or any intervening gods or the power of prayers at work.
What I do see is a strong and incredibly courageous woman that persevered and pushed through a series of horrible situations. I see people helping people they love in the form of your current husband and possibly others that may have helped you along the way. I see you and your love for your kids. I see only humans showing love for others in need because from my perspective all we have is each other.
I wish you would give yourself more credit. You are a lot stronger and braver than you think. I think you are a lot stronger and braver than your religion tells you.
Thank you for sharing a part of your life. I wish you the absolute best and much love to you and yours.
I appreciate your kindness, but I give all the glory to God! It's impossible to explain unless you feel it. Nobody was there for me, except for God at the time. I didn't know then, but I know now that God gave me more than I can handle. If it wasn't for him I probably would have given up, and I wouldn't be here now. He was testing my Faith, Perseverance, and Character. I gave my life to him, and he will never again lead me astray. I believe that with all my heart.
All religion is fake. A lot of people are sheep and that's how come religion everywhere still exist
So I'm assuming you read only Facebook memes for your studies of all religions?
But hes soo smooth, must be right.
Facebook memes ARE a religion
I don't mess with Facebook. Just call it as I see it
How is it that 1% of Jews and atheists said yes?
Those are the people who voted in Florida in 2000.
Al Gore wins God Of the Year confirmed
I was baptized, so technically I am a Christian. However, I never remembered believing in a God. I'm guessing my parents had me baptized to please my British grandparents. My grandma was religious but my grandad, who led a group of British home guard troops in World War 2, was known to march his men to church and then go to a pub.
Never understood the issue with drinking, Jesus turned water into wine to keep the party going, just saying.
Being Baptized doesn't make you a Christian. Believing in God doesn't make you a Christian. Being a good person doesn't make you a Christian. Also, the Bible doesn't say you shouldn't drink wine. It says you shouldn't get drunk on wine. It says you not to be a drunkard. Drinking wine and getting drunk on wind aren't the same thing.
Sorry, I messed that all up. It says not to be a drunkard. I also messed up and typed wind instead of wine in my last sentence.
However, the entire prohibition movement in the US was fueled by Christians saying God says you shouldnt drink. In the law the only allowance was for communion.
Not everybody who says they're Christian are Christian. I think this is especially true of Politicians. They are power hungry and twist things around to benefit them.
My parents fought hard but I won the brain wash battle.
Good to hear, I was an altar boy and in the choir, still made it out and without any real issues.
No, and just never have been, even though I went through the full indoctrination process as a kid. It just didn't take, for which I am grateful.
So glad that a majority of states are Christian! How great, praise Jesus!!
Polls like this are only good for exposing the trolls that don't vote the way they list themselves in their profiles.
Mormon here!!!:) whoot whoot!
Dang, Republicans really are almost all Christian.
This surprises you why?
It doesn't lol I just doubted myself for a moment that maybe I was stereotyping before, but I'm not shocked
What tradition, if I may ask.
I myself don't necessarily have a tradition.. I just immerse myself I the beauty of free will. I recognize the chaotic nature of the universe, the cycles it goes through.
My goddess is known as Eris/Freyja/Morrighan
I am a norse pagan. I believe in the old ways of my ancestors.
Very cool. You guys keep being awesome :)
Thanks, you too. hehe
Manly, the friends that I am staying with are Norse Pagan.
Odinism is a good religion.
1% of atheists and 2% of Jews are Christian, apparently.
The first one is strange, I understand the second one though.
Yes, and as a bonus I'm not the kind of Christian that hates the gays.
I don't mind your kind! 😉
Here we can see atheists acting respectful and tolerant, like they always claim to be.
Hey, wait a second...
No. It's nonsense.
It's not nonsense just because you believe differently.
Talking snakes, talking donkeys, turning people into salt, worldwide floods, giant fish eating people and then regurgitating them unscathed, walking on water, turning water into wine, zombies, dragons to name a few.
You ever read revelations? Try reading that and tell me that's not nonsense 😂
Yes I have read all of that, and no it's not nonsense. I believe those are real things that happened. God is all powerful, he could do far more incredible than that if he so chose.
But chooses not to protect innocent christian babies from cancer? Hallelejuah!!! Amen Brother!
We turned our back on Him and are forever, on this side of Heaven, imperfect an living in the existence of sin. With that comes things like cancer.
So he just cant or wont fix that?
He did. He sent Jesus to do that for us. The sacrifice was made, death was defeated, along with sin. We still live in this world until He returns, but this world and life aren't all that there is. While someone may suffer now, they won't in Heaven.
So to get to the good part I should die as soon as possible, to avoid the continued punishment, I must suffer because a woman ate fruit from a tree the jewish god put there?
No. This is still good. We have this life to worship God through it and get to know him better, along with sharing Christ with others and helping them follow Him. It wasn't just Adam failed too, but so would any of us.
Says an old book written by people. Nothing all that different from many other old books written by people.
Secular humanism posits that human beings are capable of being ethical and moral without religion or a god. It does not, however, assume that humans are either inherently evil or innately good, nor does it present humans as being superior to nature. Rather, the humanist life stance emphasizes the unique responsibility facing humanity and the ethical consequences of human decisions.
Who died and made this the sfcren show? Honestly, you're acting like an anti-Christian moderator of a Christian poll. Move along...
Sorry to upset you.
Sorry, man, but some of the young Christians on here have a hard time standing up to aggressive atheists or anti-Christians, and I guess the grandfather in me just kinda wishes you guys would live and let live. I'll defend my faith whenever you want, though, as long as we don't descend into mockery. 😃
It's ok, Tom. I can do nothing besides present the gospel, and I'm ok with that. It doesn't matter how many people wrote the Bible, or how long it took to compile into what we have now. That doesn't make it any less valid.
I hope I didnt come across as mocking. I question many things in my life, I try to follow the socratic method, so it can be offputting. I apoligize if I came off as a jerk, that is not my intention.
Talking donkeys? ever see Shrek???
same with talking snakes..what about Jungle Book....
just the kid in me talking :)
Seriously, Anyone knows Revelations is a bunch of bullcrud. But you have to admit, as I always told my mother, when I asked her if she believed in it (she laughed and said no, she said it was creepy) it would make one HELL of a movie...
That's not true
@sfcren - my apologies. I misjudged you. You seem to be a really good and caring person. I look forward to future conversations with you! 😃
No worries, I enjoy debate and I know sometimes I can come across as aggressive or condescending. My goal is just to see what other people think and why they think that. Nothing more.
Yes, I am a Christian I believe that Jesus was Christ that He was the living God Who became flesh and dwelt among us and that He died for my sins.
I believe Jupiter came down and impregnated a human with a child named Hercules who protects me. Bring it!
I do not argue faith.
What do you argue?
Gay-rights I am for them.
Wow, this app is a lot less Christian than the actual population.
This user is currently being ignored
Even though I question Christianity, I do not question your ignorance. You have to be a special kind of shitty to tell over 2 billion people that they are wrong in what they believe despite you having no real evidence. Grow up.
Maybe you meant to say "extraterrestrial"? There may very well be a terrestrial dictator watching us, but that could be the head of the NSA or some powerful corporate conglomerate or something like that.
Mcm: I believe those two billion people are the ones with no evidence.
There's no definitive evidence for either side, And if they have the same attitude as the person above does towards people who don't agree with them that's not right either.
Mcm: it's itonic that most Christians are more likely to push their religion on people than atheist are to push their disbelief
Reasons that might be true:
1) there are way more Christians in America than atheists. Proportionately, I have noticed atheists to be much more obnoxious and condescending to religious people.
2) to many people, Christianity acts as a lifestyle where I don't see how atheism could be such.
3) the decision to believe or not believe is completely personal and choosing to insult people because they choose to believe differently than you is ignorant and rude.
Btw, you shouldn't say things like "more Christians push.." Without giving a citation or mention that it's you're opinion.
in my observations here I have noticed that many of the vocal atheists are quite disparaging of those who believe. Some are quite angry in their mocking.
The believer who judge are more likely to be condescending and to insist that everyone who does not live by their personal interpretation of the Bible is morally deficient and to be pitied or killed depending upon the Believer's personal preference.
Mcm: don't tell me what I shouldn't do. That's the problem with you Christians. You tell everyone how to live, trying to pass laws to make others live "righteously" lol. Like you've never said anything without a citation. Sorry we atheists don't start wars on behalf of our beliefs! Besides anytime a Christian says something like "oh dear what are you wearing I'll pray for you!" It is them trying to push their religiously based moral beliefs onto others. It's funny how we need to justify our lack of belief with evidence whereas y'all can just mumble "oh I have faith"
Lmao oh boy you've certainly gone off base
huh? who cares if someone says "I have faith"? they're giving you a "pep talk" they're just words.
I hate how 39% aren't Christians Jesus died for your sin. Since I've been a Christian and started praying my life has been twice as great.
This is exactly the problem I have with Christianity. You shouldn't hate the fact that there are people who are not Christian. You should not have any issue with the fact that there are individuals who follow a different set of beliefs. Unfortunately, your religion causes you to take issue with that fact. Your religion has taught you that there exists an afterlife based on reward and punishment, and that those who reject the principles of Christianity will surely be punished. Thus, you are incentivized to save others from that fate through conversion. For many, this means even to indoctrinate children into the religion, and forbid them from developing any beliefs contrary to it. And why shouldn't they? To infringe upon an individual's intellectual freedom is well worth it if it will save them from eternal torment in the end. Christianity degrades existence in the real world for the purpose of improving existence in the world that will never be.
Is this bait?
"Haha nice b8 xDDD"
Wait were you referring to my comment or woddie's?
Oh lol. Myb
Vayl, how much of an ass would a Christian have to be to want to keep (what they consider the best thing in their lives) Christianity to themselves?
When we see nonChristians, it makes us sad, because many of us remember what it was like before we had faith and we believe our lives are much better now. We want everyone to experience that.
I'm sorry that we want you to be happy and that bothers you. I'm not judging, I'm just trying to explain it since you said it bothers you so much.
@ronderman "We just want you to experience Christianity" does not adequately explain the actions of many Christians. If all you wanted was to share an experience with others, you wouldn't disown your children for diverging from the principles of Christianity. You wouldn't spread the gospel and try to convert as many people as you possibly could. You would recognize that Christianity is not for everybody, and that some people would genuinely be happier without it. The real reason you take issue with the existence of non-Christians is because you believe that unless they convert to Christianity, they will suffer an eternity of endless torment. And it is perfectly rational to attempt to save others from such a terrible fate, which is why it is Christianity itself, rather than Christians, which is to blame for all of these problems.
I feel happier without Christianity to be honest
I am a much happier person since I realized I didnt have to constantly remind myself of how much I owe god since Im alive and need to spend my life on my knees worshipping someone who punishes me for being alive.
Vayl, "If all you wanted was to share an experience with others, you wouldn't disown your children for diverging from the principles of Christianity." I would never do that.
"You wouldn't spread the gospel and try to convert as many people as you possibly could." Sure I would. I'm not judging anyone for not believing, but if asked a question, I will answer it.
"You would recognize that Christianity is not for everybody, and that some people would genuinely be happier without it." I do. Still makes me sad though.
"The real reason you take issue with the existence of non-Christians is because you believe that unless they convert to Christianity, they will suffer an eternity of endless torment." I don't take issue. It's your choice.
What also makes me sad is the experience you have had with Christians who evidently have judged and not shown the love of Christ to you. I respect your choice. It's not mine. It doesn't mean I don't want the best for you.
Xemanis and sfcren, I'm sorry your experience with Christ wasn't what mine is. I don't know your story, but I respect your choice as well.
@ronderman I apologize if I wasn't clear - when I said "you" I was not referring to you specifically, but rather Christians in general. The reality is there are many Christians who have a serious problem with people who do not follow Christianity, and have literally disowned their child for acting contrary to the principles of the religion. If you interpret your religion in such a way that you are not incentivized to infringe upon the intellectual freedom of others, then you have my respect.
I did not take offense, but thanks for clarifying. I would pinpoint a different "problem".
The problem I see is that we have far too many "Christians", and not near enough "followers of Christ". You see the term Christian is not ever defined in the Bible. It is only used three times in scripture, was actually coined by the Romans, and used as a slur. As such, anyone can claim to be a Christian.
I was baptized as a baby but have never gone to church or even declared faith in Christ, am I a Christian? I go to church on Easter and Christmas, am I a Christian? My parents were catholic, am I a Christian?
Many of these people would say that they are, but are they followers of Christ? These are the people who may even go weekly to church but never have Him in their hearts. These people do irreparable damage to the term "Christianity". Do they look to Him for guidance, leadership and inspiration on a daily basis? These are the people who you speak of. Not me. 😇
"If all you wanted was to share an experience with others, you wouldn't disown your children for diverging from the principles of Christianity."
I would never do that. I don't understand the people who do.
"You wouldn't spread the gospel and try to convert as many people as you possibly could. You would recognize that Christianity is not for everybody, and that some people would genuinely be happier without it."
That actually just isn't the case. I spread the Gospel because Jesus commands his followers to do so, and because the reality of the matter is that I don't want to see the destruction of those who do not accept Christ. I care about everyone on this earth, and I want them to prosper in heaven alongside me for their sake, not mine. To say Christianity is not for everyone makes no sense, because God created each of us to be with Him. True Christianity is really the only peace. The only people it doesn't work for are the people who don't want to turn away from their sin, in which case the problem is the sin, not God.
"The real reason you take issue with the existence of non-Christians is because you believe that unless they convert to Christianity, they will suffer an eternity of endless torment."
Yep, that is true.
"And it is perfectly rational to attempt to save others from such a terrible fate, which is why it is Christianity itself, rather than Christians, which is to blame for all of these problems."
No, the problem is those who won't turn away from sin. What you haven't figured out is that God came first, we came second. There first was God and there was peace and there was good and right. It was our sins that started a long series of problems. It's not Christianity that's the problem. It's the opposition to it.
I'm not saying all Christians are perfect. There are Christians who misrepresent the faith. But those people need redemption just as much as the rest of us. It's God who we should follow. Then all else falls into place.
should follow. Then all else falls into place.
And as far as intellectual freedom goes, God is all-knowing. There is no greater freedom than with Him.
I do not care. Don't force it on us.
I'm not forcing anything on anyone. I'm explaining what I believe. No different than anyone else has done here.
You were talking about how you should spread it to 'save' people.
That's the reason I share my faith. But I'm not forcing it on you. I'm telling you about it. If someone tells you "I had some chocolate ice cream and I really liked it and I think you will, too. You should try it," they're not FORCING you to have any ice cream. They're telling you about it. Encouraging it. Not forcing it on you. Forcing would be if they shoved the ice cream in your face—or if I started slamming you with scriptures and telling you to turn or burn.
You made it sound like a necessity.. I suppose if that isn't the case then it's better.
I believe it is a necessity. But I also understand that shoving things on people isn't the right way to treat them—and that goes for everything: religion, politics, and yes, ice cream. I believe showing God's love is the best thing I can do for anyone. I leave personal conviction up to God. It's not my job to "convert" people, it's my job to love them. And I don't mind a healthy discussion/debate once in a while, so long as childish and personal attacks are avoided.
It shouldn't be a necessity to tell people they need to be saved from something they aren't aware or don't care about.. Don't make it a point to convert everyone you see, it'll just make people mad
If a person isn't aware of the fact that their sins will lead them to eternal suffering unless they accept the Savior, I make a point to let them know. If someone doesn't care, it breaks my heart. I don't want to see their ruin, and honestly, God loves that person so much, and He doesn't want to see their ruin, either.
People get mad when I share my faith because it requires them to confront themselves. The tension between living in blissful sin where they can do what they want vs. admitting they're wrong and humbling themselves sparks anger. It's the same when a parent tells their child "no." The kid throws a fit cuz he wants what he wants. He doesn't care to listen to the advice of his parents who are bigger, stronger, and wiser than he. People would rather abandon God to live in sin without confrontation.
Eh, there are better options..
But some people don't believe in sin or hell.. just like you have your beliefs. It's not like being a spoiled kid at all. it's simply having different beliefs.
What you fail to understand is that the way I see things, there's not just a bunch of people wandering about with different beliefs and they're just different and that's all there is to it. There's a chronological series of events.
God came first. There was always God first. And God is the only good and right out there. Then he made us. He made people and he made them sin-free. But then Satan tempted humanity into sin, and we are all therefore cursed. That's when other beliefs began to arise—when humanity was cursed with sin. That's when Hinduism and Buddhism and other fallacies all arose from man's sinful nature. And so people turned away from God. But God was always the right answer. And so when He said to people who were sinning that they needed to abandon their sin and return to Him, they didn't listen. They threw a fit and rebelled. And so God handed them over to a depraved mind. So now everyone's "different beliefs" are ultimately just a form of rebellion against God.
Either have eternal suffering or accept my savior.
You dont see that as forcing someone?
You just compared non believers to children throwing a fit and you think your condescending?
I know I have done things in my life I shouldnt have but to me its more impactful to apoligize to the person I have wronged, not to confess those things I have done against a rule book I dont agree to and a party I dont believe exists.
So people who want to live in sin can do so without God hanging over their heads, I suppose. But they're still on a path to destruction. God allows us all to choose between eternal life and utter destruction. He doesn't force us to return to Him. Many will argue that it's rigged cuz he destroys everyone who doesn't choose Him. But God gave ample warning—you can choose not to live for Him and with Him, but sin and God cannot coexist, and sin is weaker than God. It will eventually have to be destroyed.
Picture it like this. All people are stuck in a hole. That hole is going to be destroyed, and there is only one way out of that hole—Jesus. You can choose to go through Jesus to get out of the hole, or you can stay in the hole and do whatever you want in it. Just know that the hole is gonna be destroyed.
Your god, which I assume you mean Yaweh was not the first god proposed. Many other gods came before if you look at history.
So it's not really forcing. Every person has the ability to make their choice.
Many of today's nonbelievers were raised apart from belief. So it's not so much their throwing a fit as it is their ancestors throwing the fit and then raising their kids to be against God because they were also against Him.
Right, heres your choice convert or be destroyed.
And when it comes to repentance, we do apologize to those we've wronged. But Jesus says whatever we do unto others we do unto Him. So we apologize to people for doing them wrong, and we confess that sin to God and ask His forgiveness.
What of those that were raised in the faith then?
Saying the lords prayer is not apoligizing to people.
Well, sfcren, it is sort of a matter of convert or be destroyed. But it's really more or a matter of "hey you're stuck in this place and if you stay here you'll end up dying, but I can get you out if you want." It's not "everyone be a Christian or else." It's kind of complicated. Imagine your sins being like a belt loop on your pants and it's hooked on a corner and the building you're in is falling down. You can choose to do whatever you want to try to get loose but ultimately your efforts can't free you and so the building falls on you. Or you can take the hand of the firefighter who is going to free you from the building that is about to fall on top of you.
Walking up to a person and sincerely admitting that you were wrong and asking for forgiveness is apologizing to a person. And praying to God sincerely admitting that you were wrong and asking for forgiveness is apologizing to God.
If the firefighter was the one who built the building and then let a demo team start it coming down on you then yes I agree.
If I dont believe in god I only need to apoligize to the person right in front of me who I have to share this world, the only one I have with.
The firefighter (Jesus) didn't build the building. A construction crew (God the Father). And it's falling down because the people living in it (humans) have been destroying it (because sin leads to death).
Not believing in God doesn't create a loophole to get you out of the burning building. It just means your belt loop is still caught on that corner and you're ignoring the firefighter calling out desperately trying to help you.
Yaweh created everything, correct? Including satan and sin.
Created thr tree and allowed Satan to tempt humanity, then says get out of paradise, and you can only come back if you admit constantly that all these situation is your fault.
I understand that is what you believe, but the vast majority of people on this planet disagree with you, and believe that thier religion is the truth.
When Satan was first created, he was Lucifer, and he was an angel. He was good. But he rebelled against God, and became Satan.
He created the tree and told Adam and Eve to stay away from it. Satan tempted them of his own accord. But temptation is meant to be resisted. Failure to resist temptation results in sin. We are cursed because of a choice made by man. It's not God's fault.
Ultimately, sin is a seed planted by Satan, and it manifests when people choose it over God. But God is still bigger, and He will eventually put an end to sin so that there is an end to suffering. He says you can choose to leave sin behind or be destroyed with it.
And God says it's a narrow path to righteousness. Most people will be deceived by the enemy. The majority of the world will reject God. That's expected. It's sad, but it's expected.
Yaweh is omnipotent correct?
So he allowed Satan to exist and created the tree, and allowed Satan to tempt humanity.
When we fail he said get out and you can only come back in when you do everything I say.
Were the jews, his chosen people and whos torah, the original book of the yaweh were decieved?
The LORD your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land.
Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
"You only have I chosen of all the families of the earth; therefore I will punish you for all your sins."
From my perspective it never happened. from many people's perspectives the bible is mythology.. So don't try to force us by telling us we're going to hell
My goddess doesn't offer eternal salvation or punishment, and it's better this way.
The historical biblical record states, 'And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt' (Genesis 6:12). This is in sharp contrast to God's declaration when he had finished creating the heaven and the earth, namely, 'And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good' (Genesis 1:31). It is astounding to consider that in the tenth generation from Adam the human race had become so wicked, evil, violent and corrupt that it was not fit to go on living. And of all mankind only four men and four women were spared, because they did not go with the great sin drift.
"I would never [disown my child]. I don't understand the people who do."
Why not? I understand it perfectly. To coerce a loved one into accepting and practicing the doctrines of Christianity by whatever means necessary is well worth it if it will save them from eternal torment in the end.
"I don't want to see the destruction of those who do not accept Christ." Exactly. And this way of thinking can lead to terrible circumstances. Not only are Christians incentivized to convert anyone and everyone into the religion, even those who do not wish to be converted, but they develop a deep distrust of unbelievers and other belief systems, as they have the potential to lead individuals away from salvation. As I said before, the problem I have with Christianity is that it degrades existence in the real world for the purpose of enhancing existence in the world that will never be.
Quite honestly I'm too busy to read all that. I'm at school and I have classes and stuff. If you have genuine questions let me know. I'd be happy to answer them. But if you're just here to challenge or debate, then I'm totally up for that, but right now I haven't got the time at this moment. I may look over it later but Tuesdays tend to be very busy for me. I appreciate your engaging in conversation with me so far. It's been quite interesting.
"It's not Christianity that's the problem. It's the opposition to it." I'm not talking about bad things in general, I'm talking about the specific problems that Christianity causes in the real world, which I explained in my previous comment. I understand that Christianity teaches that bad things are the result of sin.
"And as far as intellectual freedom goes, God is all-knowing. There is no greater freedom than with Him." I don't think you understand what I mean by "intellectual freedom". To be intellectually free is to be able to create your own moral code and forge your own meaning of life. These are things that Christianity and religions like it not only provide for you, but teach that they are objective and absolute, and that those who reject them will surely be punished. Thus, Christianity robs the individual of their intellectual freedom, and because of this, there most certainly is a "greater freedom than with Him."
I certainly understand being busy.
I question following the God of the bible, I challenge and debate christians who simply assert they are right and say since I am wrong I am going to suffer eternally.
I hope you have a good and productive day.
Vayl sums it up pretty well.
Used to be, then I went to school, researched, read the bible, and finally woke up. I would help anyone else in anything related if they want.
I always advocate actually reading the bible, it tends to make people start to question things.
Yeah. Reading cover to cover is something people should do for all religions and texts.
I'm Catholic, the OG Christians
In spirit? Maybe.
To the letter? No more than I'm a Hindu or a Jew or a Muslim.
I consider myself a 'gnostic' Christian. I try to get in tune with the universe, go with the flow, and use Christ as a basis of good living; however, I don't take the story literally.
Wouldn't that be agnostic Christian. Cause I thought gnostic mean knowing for sure..
Well....the word is used in a different context. 'Gnostic' as in wanting to know the mind of the prime creator (which I believe exists but doesn't interact) which makes me a Deist.
I'm with you
4% of Protestants aren't Christian I guess. -_-
In Catholicland (Probably AKA Spain), all protestants aren't Christian!
Here many Protestants believe Catholics aren't Christians. That's why when people ask if I'm a Christian, I respond with Catholic. They don't want us. I don't want to identify with them.
More of a deist
Are Christians really that bad?
Non-practicing Catholic, to be more specific.
Even although I work every Sunday in our church, and am a Christian, ons would think this so-called "Christian" nation would have a higher number of Christians than this.
We are more secular now with colleges that act as a brainwashing assembly line for agnostic/atheist liberals that only know how to feel victimized as opposed to knowing how to conquer life's inevitable hardships.
nice string of generalization b.s., there
Yeah, generally true.
If you attend college and dont notice an unethical bias and brainwashing on campus as well as the lack of acceptance to opinions that are not of their liking, I want to go to your school..
I go to Wayne state in Detroit michigan and the attitude of some of these kids is absolutely embarrassing and so disconnected from the real world.
But you are not biased, right? 😉
Seriously, college campus is a place to explore ideas.
There's this misconception in certain quarters that a lack of active promotion of a political, social, or religious position equates to a bias for the "other" side. It is not necessarily so.
And No, I do not see "unethical bias and brainwashing" in public schools.
As a slightly right of center libertarian I was not even allowed to voice my political opinion on campus without being ridiculed by ever single person in any of my classes. If you don't think it's a left wing breeding ground you aren't very informed, I'm sorry.
Your ignorance concerns me. If you are not the lefts version of "open minded" you are not allowed to speak.
After every GOP debate id sit there and listen to the students wish death upon the candidates, but god forbid you use the wrong "gender pronoun"
Hrm, my "ignorance" is nothing compared to your arrogance. That your peers disagree with your opinions so strongly indicates you are either not stating your case well or you are perhaps just plain wrong. To blame it on some vast left-wing conspiracy of collegiate brain-washing is ludicrous. And a cop-out. Try being less condescending when you express yourself, for starters.
Additionally, wishing candidates dead is immature and not limited to those of a liberal mind. I see it everyday here in SoH from all sides.
I think that college campuses very strongly favor the left, but it has less to do with the college and more to do with the students and popular belief—there are more left-leaning youth out there than right-leaning. It just is what it is. It can be very alienating.
it is also true that youth have historically been more liberal leaning, in general.
No, but even tho I don't understand or believe religion I try to accept and respect the faith that it gives to others.