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Throwaway77 April 3rd, 2016 3:56am

We continue to promote "manliness", and reward aggressive behavior and emotional suppression in men. This only repeats the cycle of violence in males, we need to do more to stop this.

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CrzyChica
04/05/16 5:10 am

Interesting article that sort of goes along with some of the discussions for this poll. www.nytimes.com/2016/04/10/education/edlife/teaching-men-to-be-emotionally-honest.html?_r=0

b4mytime Orange County, CA
04/03/16 2:18 am

In certain realms, absolutely. One example that really bugs me is the notion that if a man is vegan he's somehow less of a "man" just because he has ideas about compassion. What a fucking joke.

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garrry Anchorite
04/03/16 2:27 am

Well yeah. If your a vegan as a dude your gonna get messed with. Fact. But shit talking is part of the game so why are you offended? Your only truly less of a man if you can't/won't defend yourself or your position.

Praetorianus Fair enough.
04/03/16 6:03 am

Real men eat steaks that flop over both sides of the plate ;)

CrzyChica
04/03/16 12:34 pm

Real men don't feel the need to compensate for their own insecurities by giving other men crap about not being manly enough, what they eat or don't eat, or for being offended when other men are *ssholes. Our society has a lot of stupid rules about what it means to be a man, and the worst part is, it's often the other men who reinforce these ridiculous norms.

garrry Anchorite
04/03/16 3:16 pm

Nobody usually does give a shit it's a social custom. Its like joking around. Some people are actually really funny when they're doing it. You don't have anything like that as females? You must because you are worse then males at tearing eachotherπŸ‘‡

b4mytime Orange County, CA
04/03/16 5:43 pm

Garrry, you said you're "only truly less of a man if you can't/won't defend yourself or your position." But that was MY point exactly. Instead of debating the actual issue of compassion vs. cruelty toward animals, these people turn it into a game about manliness and personal insults. I have no problem defending/discussing my position whatsoever, but the other side usually resorts to vague and/or sexist cliches.

nnifer Alpha Quadrant
04/03/16 1:04 am

Quite the opposite. Men are constantly emasculated, and women are rewarded for aggressive behavior. IMO

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CrzyChica
04/03/16 12:37 pm

I think the opposite, Chima. Men and women should both be able to live life however the h*ll they want and it's nobody else's business to tell them how they have to fulfill their gender roles.

dfish at home
04/03/16 1:00 am

Strongly disagree. Manliness is both under attack and on the decline in our society. It's sad really. In 50 years we'll all be chicks

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ConservativeCA Joe Biden is barely alive
04/02/16 11:27 pm

What do we do to reward behavior in men? As a matter of fact, modern media effectively emasculates male characters, and mocks masculine characters in a satirical manner.

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CrzyChica
04/03/16 12:38 pm

Conservative, I agree. That's a fair point. You do see a lot of buffoonish male characters in commercials and sitcoms, which is ridiculous.

evoecon nearest binary system
04/02/16 10:02 pm

Never knew there was a cycle of violence in men...

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Throwaway77
04/02/16 10:23 pm

The basic cycle of violence I am referring to is a violent or aggressive parent or parent relationship that goes on to influence violent behavior in the child, as well as exposure to a violent society and media, encouragement to behave aggressively because "not fighting" is seen as weak. The discouraging of males to healthily express emotions for fear of perceived "weakness" leading to built up hostility and aggression....there is a lot of research on this stuff..

poetryk California
04/03/16 2:20 am

I agree Cynic. It's clearly unhealthy; I don't understand how there can be any debate about this. Suppressing emotions and being told your natural feelings are "weak" or "feminine" only causes psychological turmoil that is later expressed through drug abuse, depression, violent behavior, poor relationships, etc.

evoecon nearest binary system
04/03/16 6:20 am

Well Cynic express many factor and prominently the factor of the parent. I would agree there is a cycle of violence in those people, but not a generalized cycle of violence among males.

The generalization is my concern. It plays into stereo typing of men.

Throwaway77
04/03/16 7:33 am

I think we're close to the same level. I am against the male stereotypes and the male stereotypical expectation. I'm not "playing into stereotypes" I'm acknowledging them as harmful to society.

CrzyChica
04/03/16 12:39 pm

Critical, very well said.

mark1950 Columbia, South Carolina
04/02/16 9:46 pm

"Manliness" has taken a hit since the 60's. Every dad on television is portrayed as a helpless idiot. A man's man is portrayed as one who denigrates women and lives to kill. It's time we teach our children that there is no shame in being a man. Time to teach that one can live with honor, integrity and strength without guilt or embarrassment. Time to teach that men have a vital place in this society ... but only if they are willing to shoulder their responsibilities as men, sons, fathers and husbands.

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Praetorianus Fair enough.
04/02/16 10:00 pm

Agree with everything except I think the concept became "politically incorrect" in the 70s not the 60s.

mark1950 Columbia, South Carolina
04/02/16 10:09 pm

Perhaps. But the "sexual revolution" and bra burnings were the cradle of what happened later.

garrry Anchorite
04/02/16 9:41 pm

No, just no. You've got this totally backasswards guys are supposed to be aggressive and assertive. And polite when needed there is a fine line but those qualities can get you far in life. Being a go getter is not a bad thing for a male.

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garrry Anchorite
04/03/16 2:21 am

Also, BTW, testosterone it's good stuff. Side effects may include beards, muscle, aggression, wanting to copulate. Men usually find fulfillment with this. If you don't well that's fine, you do you. Don't weed out testosterone from the gene pool!

Throwaway77
04/03/16 7:27 am

High levels testosterone have consistently been found in violent criminals and rapists. This is of course not the only cause. But to be noted as well, there is no difference in aggression between males and females on a biological level. Both sexes exhibit the same amounts of aggressive behavior, which leads to "why th excessive rates of men acting out on their behavior" especially in physical ways. the surrounding media rewards and promotes violence, maybe it isn't obvious to you that it does, but you have action movies, superhero movies, shows that depicts using violence as "good" video games especially (I know everyone loves to ignore the hundreds of studies done) they reward violence by gaining the player XP for killing for no reason etc. Pat your son on the back for punching a kid at school, tell him he's a wimp if he cries and now he has a complex about expressing emotion. Domestic violence is still a huge issue. I'm really just trying to get the facts and studies out there.

garrry Anchorite
04/03/16 8:39 am

Alright cool education is empowering. But in this case I'd say it is a conjecture drawn too soon. Men can feel but it's empowering to know that what you feel doesn't control you. You are responsible. For yourself and your actions, feelings =/= truth.

sydwel
04/02/16 9:24 pm

Agreed. This is why clinging to traditional gender roles is a problem.

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evoecon nearest binary system
04/02/16 10:04 pm

So, there is a traditional cycle of violence in men?

sydwel
04/02/16 10:04 pm

There is a traditional push for "toughness" and "manliness" in men.

evoecon nearest binary system
04/02/16 10:14 pm

"This only repeats the cycle of violence in males, we need to do more to stop this."

So, you agreed, thus a traditional cycle of violence in males?

sydwel
04/02/16 10:19 pm

There is an acceptance of agression that can lead to violence. Yes.

evoecon nearest binary system
04/02/16 10:28 pm

Females can not have a traditional cycle of violence, only males. Good luck with your unreasonable hatred of males.

sydwel
04/02/16 10:30 pm

Did I say that? No. Women also commit violence, but this can go ignored, also because of traditional gender roles. Women can be seen as "nurturing" and "weak" and therefore incapable of sexual assault, domestic abuse, etc.

evoecon nearest binary system
04/02/16 10:58 pm

So, could it really be that violence is not simply gender based? To generalize that male violence is predicted by traditional gender roles is wrong?

My experience is violence has a greater affiliation with cycles of violence in families or a person's environment.

sydwel
04/02/16 11:02 pm

Men are more likely to commit violent crime. I'd like to see that change, in favor of reduced pressure to be tough or aggressive.

dfish at home
04/03/16 1:19 am

What on earth is wrong with being tough or manly?

CrzyChica
04/03/16 12:48 pm

Evo, I agree that cycles of violence and/or abuse happen in families. I also agree with Sydwel that women can also be violent, but because of society's views of women as nurturing and weaker, women aren't viewed as innately violent. Society's views of men as aggressors, however, makes it easier to view men as the violent ones. That's not a fair assessment at all. Masculinity is not a bad thing at all, but is it fair to men that they must possess these masculine traits or else? I don't think it is.

Axl752 NY
04/02/16 9:22 pm

I dont think we promote manliness anymore. What ive seen recently is a shift against manliness.

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Throwaway77
04/02/16 9:31 pm

Hopefully that's true...I still see a plethora of men obsessed with "being a man" aka not showing feelings, not expressing or talking about emotions, bragging about fighting, thinking they are superior to everyone, aiming to be sexually promiscuous for approval etc.

Axl752 NY
04/02/16 10:31 pm

I dont think repressing manliness is a good thing.

Throwaway77
04/02/16 10:35 pm

The idea is that "manliness" is not innate...you can't repress it because it is a promoted role. It is an encouraged behavior that does harm in its attempts to repress certain healthy human emotions and excessively encourage aggression, pride and superiority

Axl752 NY
04/02/16 10:57 pm

I dont think manliness has anything to do with repressing emotions. That is one-dimensional thinking.

Throwaway77
04/02/16 11:05 pm

Your personal definition of it is one thing, but I'm referring to the general stereotype that is encouraged.

CrzyChica
04/03/16 12:52 pm

Chimama, you're delusional if you think the definition of manliness is being a puffed up *sshole. The more you call other men wimps the more we all realize you are trying to convince everyone else you are a man, but the less we believe it. Having strength of character, confidence and self assurance without the need to put others down, is WAY more manly.

CrzyChica
04/03/16 1:30 pm

I may be a woman, but I guarantee you that I am as much as an "expert" on masculinity as you are. 😏

EmperorAugustus
04/02/16 9:19 pm

This isn't a bad thing, if anything, we should impress this more upon the youth

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ClayTownR California
04/02/16 9:08 pm

"Reward aggressive behavior?" Have you seen what's happened in schools? They treat boys like defective girls.

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dfish at home
04/03/16 1:33 am

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