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ScenarioNations April 2nd, 2016 6:09pm

Should prisoners be given the right to vote?

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Idahologger up north
04/02/16 1:18 pm

Of course democrats said yes...

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LeftLibertarian Makeshift Dorm
04/02/16 12:04 pm

Sounds like a great way to put a check on corruption in our prison system, which is quite clearly needed.

RyanX
04/02/16 11:13 am

They shouldn't need to be given the right, they should have it as citizens.

Reply
ScenarioNations California
04/02/16 11:17 am

Except that you lose certain rights and privileges when you do something unlawful. Therefore you'd be giving the right back to them. When you say "they're still citizens", technically they're prisoners. Yes they're US citizens by birth but they change their status when they violate the law. That's why I believe the courts have never ruled this as unconstitutional. Even liberal ones.

RyanX
04/02/16 11:25 am

This is true. But they still retain other rights while imprisoned, like remaining free from cruel and unusual punishment and bodily autonomy in regards to medical testing. Voting is a right that is stripped at best arbitrarily, and at worst part of a structure that keeps poor, criminal, and people of color from having a voice or advocating for themselves. It's a remnant of the Jim Crow era that I don't believe should remain

ScenarioNations California
04/02/16 11:35 am

Cruel and unusual punishment is up for interpretation. I'd agree that bodily autonomy and rights against medical testing is horrible but that's why its been outlawed and found illegal. Personally I'd like to end victimless criminal imprisonment. (Mine ideal prisons would include only rapists, murderers, child molesters and other high offenders.)

LibArtie SW Connecticut
04/02/16 12:34 pm

What harm is there to allow inmates who were either born with, or attained citizen status to vote?

ScenarioNations California
04/02/16 12:38 pm

I t'd probably just offend the victims of the crime. Its more about the morality in the situation then anything else. I tend to be neutral on this. Ex: I wouldn't suggest Charles Manson gets any rights but I'd be fine with victimless crime criminals getting the vote.

RyanX
04/02/16 12:39 pm

Using legal status as a justification for legal status is circular logic. You say medical testing is wrong and that's why it's now illegal, which is true, but for a long time it was perfectly legal. That prisoners can't legally vote right now does not mean it's immune from being reconsidered. I too think prisons need restructuring, especially in regards to drugs. And at the very least, released felons should be able to vote, that is more immediate an injustice in terms of voting. They have served and are free and should have their voting reinstated. Another ripple from the Jim Crow era. Felonize (drug) crimes common in poorer, non-white areas, and you control their voice in steering the country.

LibArtie SW Connecticut
04/02/16 12:43 pm

I don't want Trump to have the right to vote but I have no choice.

ScenarioNations California
04/02/16 1:15 pm

Ryan: You just took my words out of context so I'll do the highlights for you. When you break the law and you're thrown in prison, you lose certain rights. The constitution (14th amendment) gives states the right to remove voting rights from those that participate in "rebellion or other crime". A 1972 SCOTUS decision ruled that this also applied to ex felons. While I may disagree with the ex felon part, its always usually been a state's issue. But universally we've had both parties block legislation to give felons the right to vote.

Wouldn't you need an amendment to change part of the amendment? Also wouldn't a major party with a majority need to advocate for it? By your own standards both parties are "racist because they uphold a Jim Crow law".

More white people are in prison than black people.

Lib: And why is that? What do you support your position with? Or are you just anti rich white people?

LibArtie SW Connecticut
04/02/16 1:25 pm

I'm anti Trump. Bill Gates and Warren Buffett are rich white men in his age category and I greatly admire them. As for your well stated argument, it's anchored by law and technicalities. Your question is philosophic and warrants the same in response.

RyanX
04/02/16 1:31 pm

I didn't say any party was racist for anything, let alone only saying one was and the other isn't. I think denying voting rights to ex-felons isn't right and upholds traditions that affect certain demographics more than others. And of course more more white people are in prison than non-whites, they are the majority and it makes sense they would be the majority there too. However, poor and non-white citizens are far over-represented if you look at percentages rather than gross numbers. And that is again a ripple of Jim Crow era attitudes with stricter punishments for similar crimes, the harsher punishments on crack than cocaine, drug war, etc etc. it's a huge systemic issue, whether consciously at this point or not.

ScenarioNations California
04/02/16 1:49 pm

Lib: Just because you're against a certain person, it doesn't mean they lose their rights. Trump hasn't done anything illegal. (That I know of.)

Ryan: You didn't directly but you practically did by claiming that they uphold Jim Crow laws and discriminate against African Americans. (Jim Crow laws are known to be racist.) The issue here is how would you change the current policy? Is there a way?

LibArtie SW Connecticut
04/02/16 1:55 pm

I didn't say he doesn't have the right to vote or even that he shouldn't. I said I wish he couldn't vote but that's my tough luck. Also, add Michael Bloomberg to my list. And all on my list make Trump look like "Trump change!"

ScenarioNations California
04/02/16 2:00 pm

Lib: Why do you wish trump couldn't vote?

LibArtie SW Connecticut
04/02/16 2:01 pm

I don't think he's mature enough. He behaves like a petulant child.

ScenarioNations California
04/02/16 2:03 pm

Yet there's more immature and childish people out there who vote. If you think Trump is childish, you should have a 5 minute conversation with a supporter of his.

LibArtie SW Connecticut
04/02/16 2:08 pm

I'm not singling him out, of course there are many others. I don't care to engage with Trump supporters. I lived all but the last two years of my life in NYC or Westchester County. I know him well. Too well.