Show of HandsShow of Hands

polster2 December 18th, 2015 4:39am

Despite being the most heavily funded (per pupil) nationwide, city school systems often have the worst performances in the nation, often with high black populations. Is this failure due to terrible values in the black community or a lack of IQ?

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Diknak Ohio
12/18/15 11:05 am

It's an issue of bad teachers and bad culture of parents not being involved. Two of my (white) cousins grew up in a ghetto area and went to one of these schools. It was pretty clear that the parents never got involved in the schooling and the teachers didn't give a shit. The parents (including my aunt) simply didn't value education and thought that schooling was hands-off.

Also, I saw his English papers and they would have been straight F's in my school and he was getting B's (using slang, no punctuation, typos everywhere, etc). I imagine the teachers just give up after failing so many students and just lower their expectations. Just because they get more money per capita doesn't mean that they are getting better teachers.

Diknak Ohio
12/18/15 11:07 am

In reality, this is not a white vs black comparison, it's a poor vs not poor comparison. If you take middle income black kids and compare them to middle income white kids in similar environments, there isn't statistical significance.

PamGH SW Washington
12/18/15 9:21 am

Terrible choices. Honestly my view of the issue is complex, so I won't try explaining it, however, I believe neither of your choices is correct.

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palindrome California
12/18/15 9:08 am

*Borat voice*
"Esteemed Kazakh scientist say woman brain is size of rat"

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Wino I need a drink
12/18/15 9:52 pm

😆I needed that after reading through this load of 💩.

demandside New Keynesian
12/18/15 8:12 am

Black schools are actually UNDERfunded and the link you have for the poll is for a white supremacist website WTF??!!

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polster2 US
12/18/15 8:18 am

Professor Rushton is a well-known pioneer in race science, and his work is courageous and enlightening. Here's is some evidence for the overfunding of city school districts:

mobile.buffalonews.com/?articleRedirect=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.buffalonews.com%2Fcity-region%2Fbuffalo-public-schools%2Fbuffalos-per-student-spending-is-5th-in-us-20150602

demandside New Keynesian
12/18/15 8:24 am

One thing is overfunding, and not knowing where the money goes to. Funding may be wasted if used inefficiently, but using overfunding of a school as an argument that one race is inferior to another is not just racist, it's crazy

polster2 US
12/18/15 8:25 am

White school districts are underfunded by comparison and still run circles around black schools. Why do you think that is?

Rosebud Ohio
12/18/15 8:28 am

FYI, there are no white schools and black schools. Desegregation happened over half a century ago.

demandside New Keynesian
12/18/15 8:29 am

That's actually not true. Statsically whites and blacks perform just as well in suburban areas. The US is actually the only developed nation to UNDERfund its low income schools. The schools blacks attend are poor underfunded institutions, but because blacks and whites perform at the same level in suburban areas, there are no differences between races. Oh and you're racist for inciting inferiority

polster2 US
12/18/15 8:30 am

You're simply lying to support your narrative. Per pupil spending in urban school districts is much higher in the US than per pupil spending in rural and suburban school districts. Why do you keep denying the facts?

Rosebud Ohio
12/18/15 8:31 am

"It’s important to note that modern school segregation is not the same as the government-sanctioned social system that the Supreme Court struck down in 1954. Segregation today refers to the level of isolation of minority students, which can be measured in a variety of ways."

polster2 US
12/18/15 8:32 am

And your point is...? I said "segregation," not "government-sanctioned segregation." Now you're just splitting hairs.

demandside New Keynesian
12/18/15 8:32 am

That's not a fact, inner city schools are overcrowded and spend much less per pupil. Stop going on what that white supremacist website in that link told you. And yes they are more segregated, with blacks mostly in poorly funded overcrowded institutions and whites usually in well funded more successful institutions

polster2 US
12/18/15 8:33 am

You're lying through your teeth yet again. Does it ever get old burying your head in the sand?

demandside New Keynesian
12/18/15 8:35 am

www.ascd.org/ASCD/pdf/journals/ed_lead/el_196812_adkins.pdf

Here's an actual scholarly journal backing my argument, not a racist website like you like to use as links. Read and be educated

polster2 US
12/18/15 8:39 am

Hmm, a publication from 1968? That's the best you could muster? You are truly an inept clown if you think that that is compelling evidence of your argument for the current "problem" with America's schools.

Rosebud Ohio
12/18/15 8:39 am

They are different things. That's my point. We don't have white schools and black schools today. The segregation your poll linked to was within the same schools.
You're just straight making things up to try and fit your narrative.

demandside New Keynesian
12/18/15 8:40 am

www.efc.gwu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/disparaties.pdf

And if that didn't convince you, another scholarly journal

demandside New Keynesian
12/18/15 8:41 am

Pollster

The other one I sent is from 2012, not much has changed I guess

polster2 US
12/18/15 8:45 am

The big question I have is why funding matters for academic performance.

demandside New Keynesian
12/18/15 8:48 am

Because as the journal states, the funding is used to attract better and more teachers, fund extracurriculars, fund building projects, pay for resources for the student such as lab equipment, better textbooks, more classroom materials etc. so yes funding matters, and inner city schools get less of it

polster2 US
12/18/15 11:23 am

Why do you assume a causal relationship between good teachers and new equipment and textbooks and overall student success rates?

polster2 US
12/18/15 11:24 am

Even students who are motivated and intelligent can succeed under terrible circumstances. Just look at Dr. Ben Carson!

demandside New Keynesian
12/18/15 11:34 am

It's not an assumption. It's statistics, and no someone who believes in creationism, thinks the pyramids were meant to store grain, and states the holocaust wouldn't have happened had it not been for gun control is not intelligent

polster2 US
12/18/15 12:46 pm

That's just your opinion.

Jimmo Texas
12/18/15 7:01 am

It has more to do with the education of the parents. Children who have uneducated parents have no help at home. When you cram more than 20 children in a classroom, chances are, the child is going to have to learn a great deal of material at home. If no one is there to help them, test scores overall at the school will suffer.

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polster2 US
12/18/15 8:20 am

And why don't parents help them at home? Poor values due to low IQ, of course.

Jimmo Texas
12/18/15 11:54 pm

No they are uneducated and can't do the algebra either.

redsox95 New England
12/18/15 6:13 am

30 years ago this would be considered an intellectual discussion.

Look up Thomas Sowells (a black man) interview that explains this.

Now if you talk about you, you are instantly called a bigot and racist. And thus nothing will get done.

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polster2 US
12/18/15 6:37 am

Exactly. The American liberal's inability to control his emotions makes him totally blind to reason. Utterly tragic.

demandside New Keynesian
12/18/15 8:18 am

Pollster2

The link for this poll was for a white supremacist website. There may be some gray areas in racism, but when you read white supremacists websites and consider them facts, you really are a racist

polster2 US
12/18/15 8:19 am

Race realism and racism are two distinct things.

demandside New Keynesian
12/18/15 8:25 am

Race realism is recognition that race doesn't matter. Racism is viewing one race as inferior to another, as your poll and website both try to suggest

polster2 US
12/18/15 8:28 am

My poll is simply asking about the findings of esteemed racial scholars Philippe Rushton and Jared Taylor. Physics pioneer William Shockley also reached the similar conclusion in the 1970s that race and IQ are related. James Watson, co-discoverer of DNA, even admitted the truth a few years back.

palindrome California
12/18/15 9:07 am

"Esteemed"

No. You can't use that because they're not esteemed.

Lmao

Rosebud Ohio
12/18/15 9:13 am

A quick google search shows that neither man is esteemed, but rather extremely controversial at best. And fyi, Taylor was a journalist, not a researcher, and has been described many times over as a white supremacist.

Rosebud Ohio
12/18/15 9:16 am

Also, Watson made the claim on a gene that is undiscovered. Far from a good point to base an argument on.

Mattwall1
12/22/15 8:57 am

Red-are you claiming Sowell would've backed IQ as being tied to race? Because he was on the record as denying that.

Kay41 the Midwest
12/18/15 6:08 am

This is truly one of the stupidest polls I've seen on SOH. It is time for you to educate yourself.

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polster2 US
12/18/15 6:36 am

What have I stated that is incorrect?

allswel Minnesota
12/18/15 4:51 am

What a ridiculous poll!

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polster2 US
12/18/15 4:52 am

I think you mean "accurate."

palindrome California
12/18/15 4:54 am

It's pretty much garbage.

allswel Minnesota
12/18/15 5:26 am

Why? Read the comments below.

Also note that the usual cadre of nut cases have not shown up to try to support you on this claptrap. Even they know a loser when they see one.

polster2 US
12/18/15 8:18 am

You have provided no evidence with which to refute my claims. You have only resorted to name-calling.

palindrome California
12/18/15 3:27 am

Hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahah

What a fucking moron.
"I prefer the term race realist"
"distinguished racial scholar"

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palindrome California
12/18/15 4:53 am

You're right. I won't deny that. But man, this is a really really REALLY stupid opinion. It's ignorant. It's garbage. It's complete horse crap. This is the type of opinion that cannot be treated with the least amount of grown up respect because it's just so bad.

You know the garbage you read on the walls of a Wal Mart toilet stall? Or maybe a truck stop?

That's where this kind of junk belongs and that's how much respect this opinion - and all other "race realist" opinions- should receive.

palindrome California
12/18/15 4:53 am

should receive.

polster2 US
12/18/15 4:54 am

Why? Because of your emotions?

palindrome California
12/18/15 8:58 am

No because it's BUNK. lol just like flat earth. And JFK is living underground at Area 51.

It's bunk. When you're super young and you want to have a "challenge everything" worldview you buy conspiracy crap like this. It appeals to youth because "it's different", "it's edgy", "it's taboo".... When you grow up a little more and gain a better understanding of what constitutes science and legitimate thought, theory and academia, this kind of junk science will reveal itself to be exactly what it is: garbage.

palindrome California
12/18/15 9:05 am

... And before you say "but! But! Muh scholars!" Understand something:

You can find a MINORITY of "educated" people to say ANYTHING. Doctors, experts, specialists etc... To say ANYTHING. They hire them on infomercials ALL. THE. TIME.
I can find you a group of scientists to literally say that eating shit will make you live longer.... You can find quacks to say anything.

.... Trust me. Stick to stuff that is peer reviewed. Stuff that is tested and re-tested and re-tested a million times again. THAT is real science. What you're believing right now--- that's as valid as the infomercial doctor "expert" telling me to buy his snake oil.

Sorry I was so rude.

polster2 US
12/18/15 11:18 am

It's rather presumptuous of you to declare that only "real scientists" buy into your liberal delusions, isn't it?

palindrome California
12/18/15 4:08 pm

it's kind of presumptuous to believe that your minority, outlier "scientists" are more credible than the vast VAST majority due to your far right,wing, racist delusions, isn't it?

Think Lovin Life
12/18/15 12:44 am

Of course the problem is values, not race. Whites, Blacks, Browns, and Yellows from the slums are there because somewhere along the way, values were lost. When values are lost then families disintegrate. When families disintegrate, then the opportunity for success diminishes, and kids must try even harder to break free of the cycle.

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RoDe Latinus wordsus
12/18/15 12:27 am

Haha holy crap, I thought I was reading someone else's poll, and was really confused how they transformed into a blatant racist, then I looked against and saw it was Polster. But of course.

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polster2 US
12/18/15 4:46 am

How could the truth be racist?

Maj Worth Economist
12/17/15 11:36 pm

You know what's really ironic? You posted a poll earlier today about single parents being shitty across the board... But you linked to NPR's report of a Pew Study. I'd like to quote that article:

"There is a racial divide over whether it is possible for parents to be too involved in their kids' education. Three-quarters of black parents and two-thirds of Hispanic parents say there is no such thing, while more than half of white parents think it is a real risk."

I'd like to rephrase that just in case you missed it: 75% of black parents think it's impossible to be too involved in their kids' education; more than half of white people do.

"A majority of parents, regardless of income or demographic group, hope their kids grow up to be honest, ethical, caring and compassionate. But, Pew says, "black parents place more value than white parents on raising their kids to be hardworking, ambitious and financially independent."

Huh. Blacks value hard work and financial independence.

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Maj Worth Economist
12/17/15 11:44 pm

It's not values that are the problem. The reason cities are so expensive per student are related to cost of living - schools have a high over head, cost of security - they're frequently in unsafe locations, and special needs - which seem to go hand-in-hand with poverty.

polster2 US
12/18/15 4:47 am

Maj, it is clear that those blacks just lied to make themselves look good for the survey.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
12/18/15 5:03 am

They lied. That is your best explanation?

polster2 US
12/18/15 5:04 am

Well, of course. The literacy rate in black cities is quite low, and many city students don't even graduate from high school. This is due to parents not instilling good values, of course.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
12/18/15 5:38 am

Oh my god. If they lied it must have been deliberate, which means they are in fact literate.

polster2 US
12/18/15 5:40 am

Listen, there can be individual exceptions, but the point is that black people are failures in America not due to racism but due to being raised by stupid parents with terrible values.

polster2 US
12/18/15 5:41 am

It's the exact same reason why poor, white rednecks from Alabama don't succeed.

Rosebud Ohio
12/18/15 8:22 am

So the poll found the magical group of literate blacks who would lie on an anonymous poll?
Think about your excuses for that long and hard and really think about whose the one making crap up to fit their own preconceived bs.

polster2 US
12/18/15 8:22 am

Take a drive through West Baltimore sometime, and tell me I'm wrong.

Rosebud Ohio
12/18/15 8:29 am

Which state? I've lived in Baltimore in more than one state. Oh, it doesn't matter. You're still astoundingly wrong.

polster2 US
12/18/15 8:31 am

You have provided no evidence demonstrating that I am incorrect. Your argument is solely based on emotion.

DoctorWasdarb Marxist Leninist Maoist
12/18/15 8:55 am

No, it's based on your misunderstanding of statistics, as Maj pointed out in the beginning.

Maj Worth Economist
12/18/15 8:55 am

😂😂😂😂😂

Oh, God. You post your own refutation and then make up your own reasons why it's wrong. Then accuse others of arguing from emotion.

Rosebud Ohio
12/18/15 9:03 am

You have no evidence for your preposterous claim aside from a white supremacist basing his whole hypothesis on a bunk study (see: www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v92/n4/full/6800418a.html).

Further, your drivel relies fully on IQ. IQ (and intelligence) changes throughout a person's life. Education influences this. Why would you expect someone in a tribal community to be as educated on English Lit as someone who has attended roughly 20 years of schooling? Here's an example where 2 years of school brought average IQ up by 7 points. Only 2 years! (www.voanews.com/content/study-more-education-increases-iq-score-136593433/169492.html)

And that's probably all anyone will humor your racism.

Oh, and here's a link that shows location isn't what affects test scores, but poverty: www.twincities.com/ci_19015419

polster2 US
12/18/15 11:21 am

IQ is determined almost completely by genetics and does not change much after age 14.

student.societyforscience.org/article/iq-genes

Maj Worth Economist
12/20/15 3:46 pm

It's 50/50. ghr.nlm.nih.gov/handbook/traits/intelligence

One of the biggest things you can do to make people smarter is tell them that they're capable of getting smarter - that brains grow and learn if they are applied. People who think that their intelligence is set at birth stop trying and give up (regardless of skin color). www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-secret-to-raising-smart-kids1/

And then there is the issue of the uselessness of measuring IQ entirely:

www.independent.co.uk/news/science/iq-tests-are-fundamentally-flawed-and-using-them-alone-to-measure-intelligence-is-a-fallacy-study-8425911.html

blogs.wgbh.org/innovation-hub/2015/6/4/genius-intelligence-and-iq/

www.mdpi.com/2079-3200/3/3/59

Wino I need a drink
12/17/15 10:56 pm

😳😖😔
I can't find an emoji with a mind actually blowing up from having read an insanely ignorant statement...can someone create that for me.

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polster2 US
12/17/15 10:57 pm

What's ignorant about my question?

mfjd1948 rural johnson co iowa
12/17/15 10:39 pm

Poor teachers. The good teachers move out to the suburbs

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veritas1 Panda
12/17/15 10:20 pm

I know, right? Why are black people just so inferior to the other races?

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veritas1 Panda
12/17/15 10:23 pm

So true. Why did we let them out of their chains, again?

polster2 US
12/17/15 10:26 pm

You're making this such an emotional argument. Why is that?

veritas1 Panda
12/17/15 10:27 pm

I'm not making any sort of argument. I'm just agreeing with you and asking questions.

Why do you think black people are so genetically inferior to the superior races?

polster2 US
12/17/15 10:28 pm

There's no "rhyme or reason." They just got the short end of the stick when it comes to brain. However, they are excellent athletes.

veritas1 Panda
12/17/15 10:29 pm

Not that you're wrong (which you definitely aren't of course), but do you have a source so I can send it to my black friends proving they are genetically inferior?

polster2 US
12/17/15 10:31 pm

Here's a wonderful video by distinguished racial scholar Jared Taylor:

www.amren.com/news/2014/01/race-differences-in-intelligence-2/

veritas1 Panda
12/17/15 10:37 pm

Ooh. Jared Taylor the white supremacist? I love white supremacists. I will def check it out and send it to me black friends. I'm not sure if they'll be mentally capable of understand his complex words but I'll try to use small words.

polster2 US
12/17/15 10:37 pm

You're making this such an emotional argument needlessly. What could be wrong with simply stating the facts?

veritas1 Panda
12/17/15 10:38 pm

Congratulations on discovering distinct genetic races in human species, a feat no scientist has ever been able to accomplish.

polster2 US
12/17/15 10:39 pm

I'm hardly the first to have "discovered" races because I'm hardly the first human to be born with two eyes and a brain.

veritas1 Panda
12/17/15 10:39 pm

I'm just agreeing with your facts. Like the fact that blacks are a genetically identifiable race. Which is definitely 100% true. And that that race is intellectually and psychologically inferior to everyone else. Which is again, a 100% true fact.

veritas1 Panda
12/17/15 10:40 pm

You can see genes?! Wow! That's amazing.

polster2 US
12/17/15 10:41 pm

Genes make people look a certain way.

veritas1 Panda
12/17/15 10:42 pm

They also make people short or tall. Are tall people a race?

polster2 US
12/17/15 10:43 pm

No, you are being asinine now.

veritas1 Panda
12/17/15 10:44 pm

But again, that's besides the point. Congratulations on your discoveries that have until now never been observed by science. Your intelligence, I can see, is clearly off the charts (unlike those dumb-as-a-vegetable black folk).

polster2 US
12/17/15 10:45 pm

You're needlessly becoming angry over my stating the facts. Why is that?

veritas1 Panda
12/17/15 10:46 pm

I agree with these facts. Do you have the IQ data for the 6 feet or taller race, by the way?

veritas1 Panda
12/17/15 10:48 pm

Oh well certainly feel free to point out whenever you see someone post something that is asinine.

polster2 US
12/17/15 10:48 pm

Height does not determine race. Skin color determines race. You are being asinine.

veritas1 Panda
12/17/15 10:50 pm

Oh is that how genetic race is defined? Skin phenotype? Again. This is all groundbreaking work in science. Amazing stuff.

polster2 US
12/17/15 10:51 pm

You're so angry right now. I think you need to relax and accept the truth, my friend.

veritas1 Panda
12/17/15 10:53 pm

I 100% accept. I genuinely think you should be given credit for your novel findings in the realm of genetics and biology. These kinds of links have never been proven until your research.

veritas1 Panda
12/17/15 10:53 pm

Nobel worthy stuff

polster2 US
12/17/15 10:54 pm

You are truly unhinged.

veritas1 Panda
12/17/15 10:55 pm

Thank you, Jeb Bush.

veritas1 Panda
12/17/15 10:56 pm

You're so annoyed by my agreement. What must I do to prove my genuine white supremacism to you?

Is there some sort of ritual? Some kind of funky hat and garb?

polster2 US
12/17/15 10:56 pm

I'm not Jeb Bush. LOL

polster2 US
12/17/15 10:57 pm

I would hardly consider myself to be a white supremacist. I prefer the term "race realist."

veritas1 Panda
12/17/15 10:58 pm

Ooh. Application tips. Thank you.

polster2 US
12/17/15 10:59 pm

For what are you applying?

veritas1 Panda
12/17/15 11:02 pm

Meetings are Sunday afternoons after Church, right? See you there (if I get in 👍🏻)!

polster2 US
12/17/15 11:03 pm

I don't attend church because I am an atheist. Are you off your medication or something?

Rosebud Ohio
12/18/15 8:27 am

Skin color determines race? Does that mean my husband changes races to black in the summer? He gets super dark and all. Otherwise he's kinda yellow, which is how we know he's Asian right?
That means my oldest is just Asian too, my middle is basically a tan white person, and my youngest goes between white and Indian (which he only is when he's mad, because he becomes red skinned).

My family is even more multi racial than I thought! Thanks for clearing that up. Soooo cool to know. 👌

polster2 US
12/18/15 8:34 am

Rosebud, you really need to go back to elementary school. Race is not a difficult concept to grasp.

Rosebud Ohio
12/18/15 9:17 am

No, it's not. But clearly it is for you.

polster2 US
12/18/15 11:22 am

Not even slightly, my friend.