Show of HandsShow of Hands

Rotavele December 17th, 2015 12:08am

In 1986, 4 Soviets were kidnapped by Islamic extremists in Lebanon. When one worker was executed: the Soviets castrated a relative of the hostage-takers and sent the organs to them with a list of other relatives. All hostages were swiftly released.

22 Liked

Comments: Add Comment

blitz6799 Chicagoland
12/19/15 9:39 am

All of these people who thinks it's justified would feel quite different if they were the unwilling victim of such a policy. I absolutely don't want to be destroyed because my degenerate step-father did something stupid and awful. It was hard enough to get away from him to suffer that type of injustice in the end.

Reply
cowboy Doors of Perception
12/17/15 8:46 am

I miss the 80s and real leaders.

Reply
ezh2o Texas Hill Country
12/17/15 7:58 am

The Russians know how to deal with ISIS . . . and BO should follow their lead.

Reply
Highlander1 Iowa
12/17/15 7:34 am

That's a little thing I like to call don't f**k with Russia effect

Reply
professorwho Madness and Genius
12/17/15 7:33 am

THAT my friends is called holy war. Targeting family of your enemy to break their spirits.

Reply
Tariq88 Utah
12/17/15 6:33 am

The relative didn't do anything and regardless torture like that is never justified.

Reply
ezh2o Texas Hill Country
12/17/15 8:03 am

You need to understand that war is not some game with rules . . . If ISIS followed the Geneva rules of war or even knows what they are I would be surprised.

thornman13 Indiana
12/17/15 9:31 am

So everything is justified if it's a "war"?

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
12/17/15 9:33 am

This user is currently being ignored

thornman13 Indiana
12/17/15 9:36 am

Alright, so your relative holds the president hostage and tortures him. It's justified that they torture you?

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
12/17/15 10:34 am

This user is currently being ignored

thornman13 Indiana
12/17/15 10:36 am

Doesn't make torturing innocents right.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
12/17/15 10:37 am

This user is currently being ignored

thornman13 Indiana
12/17/15 12:07 pm

When you are being tortured, you say anything the person torturing you wants to hear. Is it because it's the truth? No. It's because they want you to stop torturing them! Torture is not a good tactic. Secondly, your tactics will only breed terrorists. If the US tortures or kidnaps innocents, they don't get angry at the terrorists attacking the US, they get angry at the people attacking them.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
12/17/15 12:10 pm

This user is currently being ignored

thornman13 Indiana
12/17/15 12:17 pm

Here's the trick... Torture doesn't work. Torture can possibly yield bad Intel. Like I said before, you confess anything the other person wants, because you want them to stop torturing you. Torturing innocents will only make them disgusted with you, not the possibly unrelated terrorists. Same thing with kidnapping innocents. As well as killing innocents.

JayDiddle Indiana
12/17/15 2:00 pm

Okay, so let's play the hypothetical "It's-Right-For-Us-Not-Them" game here. You're a US Soldier in Iraq, and you were the one who was able to capture one of Al Queda's leaders, and the US is currently detaining him. At what point do you accept that it's all just part of an unfair war when you receive your three-year-old daughter's heart, lungs, and liver in a box, along with a list of the names of your other kids and spouse? Do your kids and spouse know where to find you at any given time, when you're out fighting a war on the other side of the planet? Hell no! Torturing your family will do nothing for anyone who wants to find you; they're just going to provide whatever someone wants to hear to make it stop, even if it's just temporary.
I'll go out on a limb and say that you would not ever accept that it's fair for your innocent family to suffer for you in the reverse of the situation...

thornman13 Indiana
12/17/15 2:12 pm

I feel as if the average Human believes murder, slavery, theft, and everything else is okay, moral, and justified if it's done by or ordered by an authority figure.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
12/17/15 2:20 pm

This user is currently being ignored

ezh2o Texas Hill Country
12/17/15 2:50 pm

Ok jason, lets say, hypothetically, that ISIS captures a dozen Christians and chops their heads off, do we just say "oh, that's ok, we are civilized so please don't do that again". What do you think ISIS will do . . .?

JayDiddle Indiana
12/17/15 3:00 pm

The point isn't that ISIS is going to do this or that. The point is that we shouldn't be stooping to their level, and then justifying the murder of their potentially innocent family members, just because it isn't happening to us and our family members.

ezh2o Texas Hill Country
12/17/15 3:56 pm

Sorry but you still haven't convinced me cowering is the best policy . . .

JayDiddle Indiana
12/17/15 3:59 pm

Not killing innocent people isn't cowering, douchebag

thornman13 Indiana
12/17/15 4:00 pm

You defend yourself. You defend others. However, when you torture, kill, or kidnap people not involved, you are no longer defending yourself. You are attacking people. Just like the Islamic terrorists attacked innocent people.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
12/17/15 5:50 pm

This user is currently being ignored

ezh2o Texas Hill Country
12/17/15 5:53 pm

Thor , you obviously just don't get it . . . I'm sorry for you.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
12/17/15 5:56 pm

This user is currently being ignored

thornman13 Indiana
12/17/15 5:56 pm

First, I could see terrorists saying that about Americans. Secondly, if we kidnap and torture innocents, too them, we look like the bad guys. While ISIS and other radicals look like the good guys.

thornman13 Indiana
12/17/15 5:57 pm

Sorry, I just always thought that killing or torturing innocents was wrong. My bad.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
12/17/15 6:01 pm

This user is currently being ignored

ezh2o Texas Hill Country
12/17/15 6:01 pm

Thorn, you should lookup the word "WAR" . . .

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
12/17/15 6:03 pm

This user is currently being ignored

thornman13 Indiana
12/17/15 6:19 pm

War: "a state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state." Yeah, that helped a lot. Your right, if there is a terrorist in the middle of charity hospital, or a bunch of kids... Bomb it! You do realize people that follow the Islamic faith can feel certain emotions? They can feel sad or angry or revengeful... Seriously, look it up, crazy science.

thornman13 Indiana
12/17/15 6:21 pm

Tell me this. If the Chinese invaded tomorrow, and they accidentally bombed your kid, you wouldn't feel anger towards them? It's just war right!?

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
12/17/15 6:22 pm

This user is currently being ignored

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
12/17/15 6:28 pm

This user is currently being ignored

thornman13 Indiana
12/17/15 6:28 pm

I didn't say that. I ain't no pacifist, if some Islamic terrorist attacked my family, I would fill him with lead. Or die trying. Same thing for a US soldier or a Chinese soldier. There is a difference between defending yourself, and attacking innocent people.

ezh2o Texas Hill Country
12/17/15 6:33 pm

This conversation is going in circles . . . I'm out of here.

thornman13 Indiana
12/17/15 6:36 pm

Alright, see ya.

thornman13 Indiana
12/17/15 6:38 pm

Anyone else want to try to convince me that torturing and killing innocent people is good?

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
12/18/15 5:12 am

This user is currently being ignored

thornman13 Indiana
12/18/15 9:17 am

I don't want you to touch his innocent family. If you attack innocent people, you are no better than the terrorists during 9/11. How about this. A member of your family holds a man hostage. Should your entire family be tortured, even though they have no clue where he is?

thornman13 Indiana
12/18/15 9:19 am

If you touch my family, I don't care if your a terrorist, a US soldier, or the president, I will retaliate against you. But not your family, they didn't do anything.

ezh2o Texas Hill Country
12/18/15 9:31 am

Thorn, you sound like a terrorist . . .

corino Utah
12/18/15 9:32 am

This idea that you'll say anything while being tortured is flawed. When you are looking for Intel it's not the Spainish Inquisition, that Intel is going to be checked and you aren't doing yourself any favors in the long run by checking on something that will be verified.

thornman13 Indiana
12/18/15 9:32 am

You advocate killing and torturing innocent people. And your calling me a terrorist?

thornman13 Indiana
12/18/15 9:33 am

You'll say anything when your innocent.

corino Utah
12/18/15 9:43 am

I'm not advocating torture. Just pointing out it doesn't benefit you to "say anything" while being tortured if what you say will be checked and the answer will result in further consequences.

thornman13 Indiana
12/18/15 10:10 am

That's not always the case. Sometimes, your right, they don't want you to say anything. But it's ignorant to believe that they never torture to get a false confession. Secondly, we were talking about torturing, kidnapping, or killing possible innocents, such as family members of a psychopath.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
12/18/15 10:21 am

This user is currently being ignored

thornman13 Indiana
12/18/15 10:25 am

If you don't prevent it or at least tell some one, your an asshole. However, this is not what we are talking about. We are talking about people who don't know anything. Personally, I don't advocate violence and terror against innocent people. But apparently you do.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
12/18/15 10:26 am

This user is currently being ignored

JayDiddle Indiana
12/18/15 10:35 am

At what point do you stop "asking" and decide they truly know nothing? Oh, right, you don't... This is why torture doesn't work. It's based on the principle that the torturer assumes the torturee does, in fact, have the information the torturer is looking for, even if they don't. It's also one reason why torture is inhuman; the torturer already has a set plan, and it absolutely never, EVER involves accepting that the torturee doesn't not have the information the torturer is looking for; the torture continues until the torturee produces some kind of acceptable (even if just for the moment) response, or until the torturee dies. Also, there ARE many times we've gotten false or skewed information from detainees that were tortured. Yeah, you can verify the info, but it could take days, months, or years. Plus, people will know long day false info just for a break from the torture. Please do some real research in torture, and stop trying live out your fantasies vicariously!

JayDiddle Indiana
12/18/15 10:41 am

Correction: Plus, people will falsify info just for a break from the torture.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
12/18/15 10:49 am

This user is currently being ignored

googer11 Minnesota
12/17/15 5:55 am

I could never justify harming an innocent person. Maybe in a movie I would be cheering.

Reply
skeezyskumrat
12/16/15 10:25 pm

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Reply
skeezyskumrat
12/16/15 10:26 pm

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

ezh2o Texas Hill Country
12/17/15 6:20 pm

Terrorist gave up their citizenship when they declared war on America . . . If using their kinship to stop evil acts on Americans, so be it.

skeezyskumrat
12/17/15 6:32 pm

Alright then, the terrorists are enemy combatants. Now we must follow the Geneva convention, which essentially states the same thing.

corino Utah
12/18/15 9:35 am

If I have a family member who commits a crime, no matter how egregious, I can not be held legally responsible until I am found guilty of helping in a court of law.

JennaF sunflower state of mind
12/16/15 9:06 pm

That's fucking sick and inhumane and there's no way you could convince me that it's justified.

Reply
GlutenPutin The First Civilization
12/17/15 2:45 am

I fully agree. Disgusting

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
12/17/15 6:11 am

This user is currently being ignored

Rotavele Alabama
12/17/15 12:57 pm

"Might actually stop those ISIS douchebags or any other Terror Group from gaining a foothold over there out of fear. "

Nemacyst, Actually this was in 1985 (when the Soviets were fighting in Afghanistan against Ronald Reagan's weaponry that he sent to them).

Since the "Islamic Liberation Organization" was trying to get Syria to stop shelling Tripoli, that is likely why they were so brutal in stopping it when ILO kidnapped their embassy workers. Iraq and Syria were close friends with the Soviets at this time.

Captainbstring Biden is a Clown
12/16/15 8:44 pm

Don't screw with the Russians. We should take a lesson from them. It's time we started taking the gloves off on these vermin.

Reply
Liberty 4,032,064
12/16/15 8:43 pm

Knowingly harming an innocent person is never justified.

Reply
rickvee Living the dream
12/17/15 11:59 am

"A close relative of the hezbollah leader". I doubt he was innocent in any way.

Liberty 4,032,064
12/17/15 1:45 pm

But you don't know, and certainly haven't proven any guilt.

rickvee Living the dream
12/17/15 2:23 pm

I'm willing to take that chance.

Liberty 4,032,064
12/17/15 3:18 pm

Ok, but you'd still be in the wrong and not justified in any way.

rickvee Living the dream
12/17/15 3:36 pm

One relative of a terrorist leader vs. three diplomats? They already showed their resolve by killing one and dumping his body in a pile of trash. Remember, they went after the relative AFTER one of theirs was executed...

Liberty 4,032,064
12/17/15 3:45 pm

...and?

None of that is relevant.

MrMilkdud
12/16/15 8:28 pm

I think swordfishing the enemy is definitely effective, but I don't know if I want us to become the country who does that.
Eventually, terrorists would become comfortable with the idea of sacrificing their families to the cause, and that strategy would become useless.

Reply
ezh2o Texas Hill Country
12/17/15 8:09 am

I disagree with that idea . . . honor to the radical Islamist in very important concept so anything that makes them lose honor is an effective tool in fighting them.

MrMilkdud
12/17/15 8:14 am

I agree, but I think they would very quickly figure out a way to regard causing harm to their relatives as an honor for both them and their relatives, even if their relatives disagree.

ezh2o Texas Hill Country
12/17/15 8:21 am

You may have a point . . . but the results achieved by the Russians support my point clearly.

MrMilkdud
12/17/15 9:37 am

That was almost 30 years ago. I think Islamic terrorism has become much more sophisticated since then, and is even more radicalized.
I think that terrorists wouldn't flinch now as they did then.

ezh2o Texas Hill Country
12/17/15 12:20 pm

The fact that what the Russians did by using a family member to dishonor the ISIS thugs got their countrymen back . . . Do what works.

thelowend imitation is flattery
12/16/15 7:45 pm

do the ends justify the means? especially when both sides have innocents.

Reply
shygal47 Florida east coast
12/16/15 6:31 pm

Effective. Sounds a bit extreme but who am I to say? Different times, different cultural mores. One would expect that with expanded knowledge, Man would be able to refine the more volatile natures of our species. Nah, we're still a nasty bunch.

Reply
osouless Whats Next
12/16/15 5:58 pm

This is could stooping to the level of the enemy.

Reply
ezh2o Texas Hill Country
12/17/15 8:11 am

The results speak for themself . . .

rons WOKE is sick
12/16/15 5:48 pm

You gotta just love the commies.

Xemanis Lawful Good
12/16/15 5:40 pm

Definitely justified.

Reply
F1Dan Parked in your spot
12/16/15 5:44 pm

Good to know that is how you see it. If someone in your family ever commits a crime, I hope you understand when somebody mutilates you as retaliation even though you had nothing to do with the crime, because that is what you are supporting.

Xemanis Lawful Good
12/16/15 6:13 pm

Capturing the family yes. mutilating no.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
12/17/15 6:13 am

This user is currently being ignored

Rotavele Alabama
12/16/15 5:10 pm

Idk how to feel about this. On one hand I agree with Morris that "this is the language the extremists understand" and the strategy worked, but they took an innocent Guy's "organs" which is really wrong.

Reply
MrsCrayonWax
12/16/15 5:17 pm

I agree with you.

catpillow Florida West Coast
12/16/15 6:20 pm

I have the same dilemma. I'm not comfortable with it, but glad the hostages were freed.

Rotavele Alabama
12/16/15 7:44 pm

When did America do this before?