Sec Def ndull proposes Voter ID Act of 2015
Well I'm glad I was able to generate so much conversation through all this.
So am I
Voting nay, I believe if you require the purchasing of an ID that is literally a poll tax which is unconstitutional, additionally I have concerns with implementation since in Washington and Oregon voting is only vote-by-mail and you can register online, so showing that ID would be very hard and inconvenient of residents of those states, and others as the trend of only voting-by-mail continues to gain popularity across the nation.
The ID must be free of charge for the economically disadvantaged. Both constitutionally and ethically, this bill is not an option despite its good intentions. Until the cost issue is resolved, I have to vote against this.
What defines "economically disadvantaged?"
The exact income to qualify someone as "economically disadvantaged" can be debated but it certainly applies to those living in what the government currently classifies as poverty...
We need court cases please haha. Someone must have a problem needing to be judged! :)
If this passes it's going straight to the court.
Let me also remind you all that this is already in place and is managed at the state's discretion: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws_in_the_United_States
I'll only vote Yay if the state provides a free ID for those who qualify financially. Otherwise, this is literally un-Constitutional, and it doesn't matter if you think that's ridiculous or not.
I authored an amendment for that.
But what do you mean by "qualifies financially?"
Maybe he means it they are too poor to purchase a $20 ID
^ Pretty much that. I'd be open to several possible cutoffs.
How would this be implemented in states like Washington and Oregon that only have vote-by-mail?
How do you get a ballot?
You register but I believe you can do so online as well
Do you need to prove you're a citizen?
Nay. I have no issue with the premise of voter ID laws but this is not okay. Only if ID cards are provided to citizens free of charge do I supporr this. No matter how cheap they may be, having to pay to exercise your right to vote is unacceptable.
Dan, I need an ID to exercise my second amendment right. Doesn't that trounce the "shall not be infringed" part?
You don't need an ID to OWN a gun. If the private business selling them require you to provide ID to sell them to you, that is their right.
Right, but if you don't have legitimate documentation and you get busted, guess what, jail.
This is incorrect. The private business is forced by the fed gov't to check your ID and do a background check. That's not the business deciding it.
Nay. I agree with the goal and sentiment, but this is outside of the federal government's authority.
How? Elections are directly related to the federal government.
Some are, yes. But the federal government isn't the one hosting or deciding in them.
If you are going to have a voter ID act, which I support, the state has to eat the cost of the ID's.
The biggest argument against it is that some ppl are too poor to afford a $5 ID, which turns into "muh poll-tax!!", which turns into "you dont want black ppl to vote."
So it has to be free & readily available to side-step that shit storm.
And dont come at me with cost figures, this country spends billions a year on useless shit.
It can eat the cost of an ID for the small percentage of American who dont have one.
I kind of disagree but agree with you. I don't really care because I'm sitting on my butt laughing at your comment.
Not until this bill includes a free form of ID
Will I vote yea, nay for now
Who gets the free ID then?
This goes against 2 points of the Constitution. One is the poll tax amendment and the other is the undenied right to vote if you are 18 or older
There is no undenied right to vote if you are over 18. You MUST be a citizen and not a felon.
You also need to be an American citizen to vote.
We don't need voter id laws. Voting fraud is so insignificant that the disenfranchisement of voters that a bill like this causes can't be justified by solving a problem that virtually doesn't exist.
Disenfranchisement is a made-up boogeyman. It's a non-issue.
I could say the same thing about voter fraud.
Except that every voting cycle there are thousands of dead people voting. That's very real. We also have an influx of illegal immigrants that are not being asked to prove citizenship at the voting booth.
The NYU Brennan center for justice has said that voter impersonation is "more rare than getting struck by lightning".
In North Carolina a " 10 year death audit" turned up just 50 cases where dead people were counted. That's enough to be considered errors from counters.
A judge that struck down voter ID laws in Wisconsin said that no evidence could be produced that showed a single instance of voter fraud in Wisconsin.
The U.S justice department found that 95 percent of South Carolinas "cemetery voting" was human error.
Professors from both Stanford and The University of Wisconsin said conducted a survey experiment "to measure the prevalence fraudulent ballot casting" Their conclusion: "The notion that voter impersonation is a widespread behavior is totally contradicted by these data."
Here's a list of the many discovered cases of voter fraud.
That website is a joke. I produced several pieces of evidence directly from undeniably credible and well known sources you produced a website that's soul devotion is to "exposing the left".
Ah, the old "your evidence isn't credible" tactic. You've officially lost the debate.
But your evidence literally isn't credible.
How many sources did you click on?
A lot of them they all brought me to a different uncredited website. And all the cases that were credible were small cases no proof of a systemic problem.
Yeah, I'm sure you clicked on none.
Thank you for posting that and showing everyone your uncredited sources.
How many times will you incorrectly call them "uncredited" sources? If you're going to troll, at least look somewhat intelligent while doing so.
It institutes an in-direct poll tax. Nay. If this passes i would recommend someone bring this before the court so it can be stopped.
So why is that I need an ID to: own a gun, drive a car, rent a house, take out a loan, go to school, buy alcohol, take out a mortgage, get a job, stay in a hotel, get a credit card, open a bank account, get on a plane, get on a train, and leave the country? And why don't I need to prove I am an American citizen to vote? That logic is lost on me.
Because all of those things are either dangerous or not a right given to you by the constitution.
Oh I love how you put "dangerous" in there. owning a gun is a constitutional right, therefore, forcing me to obtain an ID before purchasing one is violating my constitutional right, no?
No because ID requirements for purchasing guns keeps us safe from widespread gun violence which has been proven too occur by facts, if there were facts to prove that voting fraud is a problem then I would consider a bill like this.
Voting fraud is a problem! Are you kidding me? A woman I ohio voted 13 times!
"Individuals no doubt rarely cast fraudulent votes." A quote from your second link.
The point is: it still happens. Stop acting like that's okay.
I don't doubt that it happens but it does not happen enough to justify discouraging or detouring as many voters from voting that this bill would.
And how many people would this bill deter from voting?
And why? My goal is to stop non-Americans for voting
How does an ID keep you safe from widespread gun violence? You think those that have killed didn't have IDs?
That's a different issue and gun ID requirements are not going to stop all gun violence just like this bill will not stop all voter fraud.
Well if properly implemented, how will people be able to fraudulently vote?
Mail in votes
Voting in two different states is an issue as well.
Need to eliminate mail-in voting. Only exceptions should be for military or those American citizens out of the country.
$20 poll tax? Nay. And that ought to have been in the summary IMO.
This isn't a poll tax. Every American citizen should have an ID in their everyday life. This isn't something unique and special to the voting process.
See, I think everyone should have an Id too, but you didnt propose the "everyone gets an ID act, you associated it to voting and thats the difference.
Nay. I'd first like to see a program to help people who can't afford an ID buy one.
The program already exists. It's called J-O-B.
You can't keep people without jobs from voting.
Its the same concept as outlawing the poll tax.
I'm not preventing people without jobs from voting. No one is. If it's important enough to them they will get $20 for an ID.
I agree. If this is put in place, it will discourage voting among the poor, thus skewing the voting.
BS. They can get $20.
Funny, I don't hear you guys ever say a CCW permit disenfranchises the poor.
That is a separate issue that we don't need to bring into this.
Southern, most elections are every two years. If you can't save up 20 dollars over 24 months to buy and ID ONE time, there is a bigger issue at hand.
Ok. There is no right to vote. You have the right to not be denied a vote based on race, religion, etc. An ID is not a poll tax. You're paying to get an ID. You don't pay $20 each time you vote.
There is a larger issue at hand. That is we have to many impoverished people in this country and this bill only makes that issue much worse.
Let's forget the emotional plea, how does a $20 ID make poor people poorer?
It makes them $20 poorer.
So does anything else they spend that money on.
This is also unconstitutional. As stated in Amendment XV, the government shall not deny or abridge the right to vote, regardless of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
The government isn't denying anyone's right to vote? This bill would make citizens prove their citizens to vote...
Should the government pay for gas to get to the voting booth?
Actually no, bc a car is not necessary to vote.
Most people can't just walk there.
Sure they can. And if not then im sure they could find a ride. This is why voting day needs to be a national holiday, so that people actually have time to go vote if they can't drive.
And other reasons as well of course.
And btw I think this is the first time we have ever disagreed😂
Haha! And football...I can just see you mountaineers walking miles to vote!
Oh and im not sure that we agree on VC polls on the hot list. But yeah who needs a car when you can take the Appalachian Trail all the way to the voting booth?!
Voting yes. I don't see how this is so hard for people to just get an ID.
And this bill would allow people to get it on the secretary of states website. So even if you don't have a computer, you can use a neighbors or go to a public library!
They don't have the money or they can't get to a location to get an id or no internet access or no Social Security card or birth certificate.
Elections are every two years. You're telling me, over 24 months, you can't save up 20 dollars and maybe a few dollars for bus fare to get down to on the dmv and get an ID?
To some people 20 bucks is huge and some can't afford to spend it on something that doesn't help feed them. And if it becomes necessary to spend 20 dollars to vote in this county I will be ashamed and embarrassed.
I'd bet $20 that they find the money for any other things they feel is important to them, like alcohol, cigarettes, lottery tickets, etc. Each of those are expensive for what you get and completely unnecessary.
You can't just assume things like that.
And you can't just assume that they don't have $20 for an ID.
Great bill, ndull! Strong yea!
Don't forget to upvote this poll.
I advise people not to upvote virtual congress bills. There is no point of having bills when the results will be skewed by outsiders. Is getting more followers that important? Since being speaker the first time, Virtual Congress has gained over 180
followers. I did this without having us upvote polls.
More participation is important.
Citizen of the year, political
But the the poll closes.
Propose legislation!! 1drv.ms/1lD0MCb
Summary of the bill: Makes people prove they are an American citizen to vote.
Voter ID Act of 2015
Section 1: Any person seeking to vote must present a legitimate, picture identification card to prove they are a citizen of the United States of America.
Subsection 1a: "legitimate identification card" is considered any Identification Card that is considered legitimate under the Real ID Act of 2005.
Section 2: Real IDs shall cost $20.00 United States dollars.
Subsection 2a: Real IDs can be ordered online through the United States Secretary of State's website and are subject to shipping and handling fees. They shall also be available at every Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) and Department of Public
Section 3: Any person who cannot provide legitimate identification is denied voting.