Show of HandsShow of Hands

Mattwall1 August 19th, 2015 11:58am

"Gender equality means gender equality. And if gender equality is the expectation, all consequences that flow therefrom must be accepted, whether one likes them or not." Amy Trask, former Oakland Raiders CEO and first female CEO in NFL history

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Brrrrrrrrr
08/21/15 7:45 am

"Gender equality.." Incorrect. The genders are not equal. I call it the 'rubbish in rubbish out' theorem. However coherent it may sound, it is based upon an absurdity.

TacoBell4ever
08/21/15 8:19 am

If the genders are not equal then which is superior?

bringstheeagle Colorado
08/19/15 12:06 pm

I agree with the statement in this case.

14573 Scary Numbers
08/19/15 11:34 am

Agree with the start. However resigning one self to whatever consequences the move to equality causes isn't just. There are multiple ways to equality and some are better than others.

146787456777 .......
08/19/15 10:59 am

of course, if we didn't it wouldn't be equality.

MrsCrayonWax
08/19/15 7:23 am

I think we have to take the consequences of gender equality. Women no longer getting preference in custody cases for one.

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Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 5:01 am

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Mattwall1
08/19/15 5:04 am

Or, technically, the reverse and basing it on the mother (I'm not sure what your state's laws are on that matter, though if you're going to have maternity leave, 3 days seems rather short). Of course, some countries allow the parents to decide how to

Mattwall1
08/19/15 5:04 am

Divide the time up, which also wouldn't go against this concept

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 5:12 am

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Mattwall1
08/19/15 5:17 am

I agree, I'm saying if they were reformed to include that, or expanded beyond 3 days. it wouldn't violate the concept here. I'm not saying the laws of other countries are our laws. My apologies. I thought that was clear

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 5:21 am

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Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 5:23 am

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Mattwall1
08/19/15 5:42 am

Relating to the status quo, I agree with you. All I'm saying is the status quo isn't permanent

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 5:48 am

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Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 5:49 am

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Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 5:50 am

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Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 5:52 am

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Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 5:53 am

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Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 5:53 am

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Mattwall1
08/19/15 5:58 am

I fully understand why maternity/parental leave can be tricky, even when they aren't encoded in law. I wouldn't say it's impossible for them to function, though I agree with you there are plenty of complications

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 6:13 am

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Esha
08/19/15 6:43 am

3 days of maternity or paternity leave is ridiculous. Giving birth sounds like this super crazy experience. People get needles in their spines to relieve pain. Even limiting all hospital stays to 3 days is dumb.

Esha
08/19/15 6:43 am

That means that someone who gives birth at 11 gets 2 days and an hour post delivery (yes, they don't go by birth time). Just because it happens often doesn't mean it isn't a HUGE event that can kill you.

Esha
08/19/15 6:47 am

Adoptions should get more than 3 days 2 bond. Since gender identity is so fluid, perhaps there should be leave based on the fact that one person ended up in a potentially fatal situation if it determined to be necessary to have differences in leave.

Esha
08/19/15 6:47 am

You get medical leave.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 6:55 am

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cornybread The Large Malus Fruit
08/19/15 11:16 am

I don't think gender equality is an all-or-nothing kind of thing in this case. It's not that women should get special treatment with maternity leave, it's just that the body needs time to recover after childbirth and if she is breastfeeding,

cornybread The Large Malus Fruit
08/19/15 11:16 am

she can't be kept away from the baby.

cornybread The Large Malus Fruit
08/19/15 11:17 am

So really it's not about men and women wanting to be treated the same or differently, it's just about the way the body works and the way caring for a newborn baby works.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 11:25 am

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cornybread The Large Malus Fruit
08/19/15 11:27 am

Right, but like I said, it's not all-or-nothing. When it comes to who gets more time off after having a baby, the woman's body is working overtime and needs more recovery time.

cornybread The Large Malus Fruit
08/19/15 11:31 am

In fact, I'd say it doesn't matter if one parent gets more time off, even if it's the husband who stays home once his wife is back on her feet. It's not like the parent staying home ISN'T doing a full-time job.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 11:34 am

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cornybread The Large Malus Fruit
08/19/15 11:37 am

To me equality means everyone gets the same amount of respect, not that we just pretend men and women are exactly the same. It's not a special right, it's about health and safety.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 11:40 am

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cornybread The Large Malus Fruit
08/19/15 11:49 am

You're focusing on the wrong things. Equality might literally imply everyone is the same, but in reality everyone isn't the same. That doesn't mean one is better than the other. Men and women can be different and still get the same level of respect.

cornybread The Large Malus Fruit
08/19/15 11:50 am

Anyway, how do you see it as a special right? As soon as a new mother's body is functioning normally, she can leave her husband at home with the baby if she wants to. Or she can stay home. Either way one of them is going to be stressed out to the max

cornybread The Large Malus Fruit
08/19/15 11:51 am

trying to keep a newborn baby under control by themselves. It's not like it's some kind of vacation.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 12:46 pm

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Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 12:47 pm

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Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 12:48 pm

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cornybread The Large Malus Fruit
08/19/15 12:48 pm

I don't think you really grasped what I was saying. Do you think women should have their breasts removed and we should have hormone therapy so we all have the same hormone levels?

cornybread The Large Malus Fruit
08/19/15 12:50 pm

And race has nothing to do with anything here. The fact that you even tried to make that connection is idiotic. Would you want to go back to work three days after having surgery? No, your body needs time to recover. It's not a privilege, it's basic

cornybread The Large Malus Fruit
08/19/15 12:51 pm

consideration and care for your body. Childbirth isn't much different. Some women have to have their stomach/uterus cut open to get the baby out. Try getting back up on the horse right after that like it never happened.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 12:52 pm

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Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 12:53 pm

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cornybread The Large Malus Fruit
08/19/15 12:54 pm

You're obviously not serious. We've done this dance before. No one is oppressed, no one is getting special rights.

cornybread The Large Malus Fruit
08/19/15 12:55 pm

Or, if you are serious, you might address some of the questions I just asked you, because your arguments are flawed, make no coherent sense and reflect no understanding of anything anyone else says to challenge them.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 1:00 pm

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Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 1:01 pm

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Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 1:02 pm

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cornybread The Large Malus Fruit
08/19/15 1:03 pm

And I circle back to my original point, that it's not all or nothing. I don't believe in absolute equality. But I do believe in equality. Men are going to need some things women don't need, women are going to need some things men don't need.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 1:06 pm

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Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 1:13 pm

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cornybread The Large Malus Fruit
08/19/15 1:16 pm

Yes, because people of different races don't have anatomical differences that are significant enough to sometimes tie into work and money concerns.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 1:43 pm

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Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 1:44 pm

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cornybread The Large Malus Fruit
08/19/15 2:19 pm

Well actually, in this case it's sexes that are different, not gender. And time off after having a baby isn't a special privilege. It's an earned and deserved privilege. After spending nine months lending your uterus and most of your energy to

cornybread The Large Malus Fruit
08/19/15 2:20 pm

a growing human being inside you, then going through all the pain and incredible force of having push that human being out of an impossibly small hole in your body, I think you deserve a little bit of time off. If men could give birth, they would

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/19/15 2:28 pm

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cornybread The Large Malus Fruit
08/19/15 2:31 pm

Only if a. The man is the one who gave birth or b. He's staying home with the baby once his wife has recovered.

Nemacyst No Lives Matter
08/20/15 4:31 am

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