Show of HandsShow of Hands

gonzoboy August 13th, 2015 10:05am

Which would you say is more American: Challenging boundaries and scoffing at prevailing norms, -OR-, Protecting sensitivities and the Right not to be offended?

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FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/16/15 12:38 am

I am so g-damned sick and tired of this bullshit. If you want to claim that being deliberately rude and offensive on F-ing PURPOSE is somehow laudable and to be celebrated you need to get your head Out Of Your ASS.
Avoiding truth is stupid and

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FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/16/15 12:42 am

solves NOTHING. But being a jackass impresses no one but your jackass friends. Truth can be spoken, even bluntly, without TRYING to offend.
Some people are going to be offended no matter what.
Get OVER your snit fit about it.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/16/15 12:42 am

Common Courtesy hurts no one. So take your anti-PC bullshit whinging and shove it up your collective noses, with a twist.

Here's a hanky, you big babies.

gonzoboy Arizona
08/16/15 8:10 am

I'm having a hard time misinterpreting this! 😜

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/16/15 4:03 pm

8) in a nutshell:

Challenging ideas is an important part of growth and meaningful change.

Avoiding truth is counterproductive. Recognizing and discussing problems is important and again necessary for meaningful change.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/16/15 4:05 pm

Everyone knows there is no such thing as a "right to be not-offended", but it serves no purpose to be deliberately rude. To change anything you must be able to persuade others to join your cause, especially if some of those others are invested in

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/16/15 4:09 pm

the status quo. It serves no purpose to be deliberately rude. Being offensive just puts people on the defensive; it serves no purpose to be deliberately rude.

The anti-PC crowd seems to think that deriding diplomacy and common courtesy is fun.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/16/15 4:14 pm

But the truth is, they just sound like jerks and whiners who are under the mistaken impression that the right to say what you want, also carries with it the right to be immune from fallout that results from being rude and nasty.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/16/15 4:15 pm

Both challenging ideas and diplomacy are Very American.

gonzoboy Arizona
08/16/15 4:42 pm

FacePalm, I completely agree with your last comment. I'd add that as "Very American" as these two options are, there IS a pervasive, militant element within both, just as there are in MANY groups, sides of debates, and social constructs. There'll

gonzoboy Arizona
08/16/15 4:42 pm

...be those who, as you colorfully describe, challenge ideas thru deliberate rudeness and being offensive, just as surely there are those who have zero tolerance for anything close to triggering their sensitivities, to the point their vindictiveness

gonzoboy Arizona
08/16/15 4:43 pm

...can turn hostile, even violent. FacePalm, I know we're talking extremes here. There is so much room as we move inward from these edges, towards a point where we can come to an understanding of one another.
This, too, is Very American.

FalkoDex OREGON
08/16/15 6:03 pm

I gave my FacePalm a bear hug and kiss, she has cooled down now ;)

gonzoboy Arizona
08/16/15 6:17 pm

Hey Falko! Well, I'm glad that FacePalm has your love, but I take NO offense to her passion and I'm ALWAYS happy to hear her or anyone speak their truth. Truth can be raw and unvarnished. I'd rather hear FP express this way, than no way at all!☺️

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/16/15 7:08 pm

Gonzo, of course there are people who are determined to whitewash the world into the socio-political equivalent of conversational Pablum. Just as there are those who believe that Truth is only honest if it is uncompromisingly aggressive.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/16/15 7:13 pm

Both sides become unreasonably offended when challenged and both are wrong, in my opinion.

I am most troubled by the divisiveness that has become the norm in this country. Everything is "us" vs "them" with no room for compromise. It is all very

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/16/15 7:14 pm

Dramatic and entertaining, but no one seems to notice that the end result is: Nothing changes and nothing gets done.

gonzoboy Arizona
08/16/15 7:20 pm

FacePalm, do you have hope?

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/16/15 7:29 pm

Hope reigns eternal, even when her voice is drowned out.

If I did not have hope I would not be here, today. Depression & anxiety are constant companions. But every morning I wake up with the hope for a new day, and yesterday behind me.

gonzoboy Arizona
08/16/15 7:37 pm

I love that, FacePalm! I have hope, too. That makes two of us. It's a wonderful start! I wish you wonderful evening and hopeful week ahead!

gonzoboy Arizona
08/17/15 2:47 am

G'Mornin' FacePalm, happy Monday! So, with IBM's Watson Tone Analyzer I used your first three comments at the top/start of this thread as Input Text. The link indicates the full result. Bottom-line, you are very socially conscious, and also very

gonzoboy Arizona
08/17/15 2:49 am

...open about it! Nice! If you have a hard time seeing the data, turn to landscape orientation. Thank you for your thoughts!

m.imgur.com/2Nz0RR8

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/17/15 3:29 am

Interesting. I am curious, what prompted you to run it through?

gonzoboy Arizona
08/17/15 3:45 am

I actually do it frequently. It's just that you & I have limited interaction, so you wouldn't have known that. Too, I really try to read comments with an eye more towards analytics, less in judgement. FacePalm, I failed here.
When I initially read

gonzoboy Arizona
08/17/15 3:46 am

...your first three comment boxes, it seemed you were seething in harshness and bitterness, though no less your truth. Seeing the output from the Analyzer helped me to see it differently, sans judgement, more about message than delivery. You see?😊

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/17/15 3:51 am

So what is your conclusion now? 8)

gonzoboy Arizona
08/17/15 4:38 am

My thoughts dovetail with the Watson analysis. It's not about the words you use to convey your point, it's about the point. And I can agree or disagree with a point, without taking any other issue into account, or creating an issue. :)

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/17/15 5:20 am

Again, interesting. Two things that might be of interest: in my first comments the word "you" was the collective, impersonal "you". I was not speaking to or about you "gonzoboy" but "you" the masses, or in this case, those who embrace the idea that

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/17/15 5:25 am

that blunt offensiveness is to be preferred over thoughtful candor.

Second: I was choosing my words for maximum impact, and to make my point. When I spoke aggressively, it got your attention, but it also put you off, albeit temporarily.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/17/15 5:26 am

Most people have neither an internal nor an external Watson to help them parse strong language and get to the message, rather than the means.

gonzoboy Arizona
08/17/15 5:40 am

I knew your aim was the collective. And even if I DIDN'T know, I would know(!), because I know 'me'. :)
Regarding the effect, you are SO right on! I like that very much! As to Watson, I've ALWAYS tried personally to be about the message, more...

gonzoboy Arizona
08/17/15 5:43 am

...than the conveyance. What Watson is for me, is a tool to let me know (like a cudgel!) that I have much room to improve, and always will.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/17/15 5:44 am

Heh, don't we all 8) πŸ‘πŸ»

ladyniner81 no hope for humanity
08/15/15 10:09 am

I can whine too much, but you have the right to tell me to put my big girl pants on and shut the @$!? up πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‰

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/15/15 9:30 pm

πŸ˜‚... Tru' 'nuff dat, dear lady! Just as surely as you have the Right to summarily dismiss such poppycock, regardless the britches you're sportin'!

dmc
08/13/15 4:02 pm

The offenders are winning this PC battle.

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 4:11 pm

Perhaps, dmc... It seems, though, if THEY thought they were "winning", they might not be squeaking so loud!

dmc
08/13/15 4:19 pm

They definitely get more air time.

dmc
08/13/15 4:20 pm

Although rereading you question I can see where a group could land on either side.

gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 4:32 pm

True, dmc. It's not as much about right or wrong, as it is an individual perception.

Think Lovin Life
08/13/15 3:52 pm

Excellent question, Gonzo!

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 4:07 pm

Thank you so much, Think! Which way did you tilt towards here, Think?...

gonzoboy Arizona
08/15/15 9:59 pm

Never mind. I KNOW your answer. πŸ˜‰πŸ˜„

gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 3:40 pm

Do you reference 'trigger warning'(?), A reference to those who want to be warned about any content, in whatever format, that could be cause for acute emotional reaction?...

dlaw4570
08/13/15 2:16 pm

Unfortunately the whiners seem to prevail at present...

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 3:37 pm

Right, dlaw. Although, I'd contend that 'squeaky wheels' tend to prevail, generally...

gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 2:54 pm

And challenge together!

timeout Boston Strong
08/13/15 11:17 am

Always Challenge if you think something is wrong and needs change...,

"Some men see things as they are and say why. I dream things that never were and say why not.” - Robert F Kennedy

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 2:53 pm

Agree, timeout, and I love that quote!

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
08/13/15 9:31 am

There *is* no right to not be offended. In point of fact, the First Amendment protects my right to offend the crap of you! Put on your big kid pants & deal with it.

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elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
08/13/15 9:45 am

Newspeak simply muddles clear debate & rational discussion... which is the *point* of PC "rules." What baffles me, is, while ostensibly insulating overly-sensitive feelings, "racist," "the N word," "hater," etc seem to be used w/relish by SES.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
08/13/15 9:45 am

SES: special entitled snowflakes

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
08/13/15 9:46 am

Newspeak - noun: an official/semiofficial style of writing/saying 1 thing in guise of its opposite, especially in order to serve a political/ideological cause while pretending to be objective, EX: “increased taxation” becomes “revenue enhancement.”

gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 10:01 am

Preach!
On a side note, an expression that's gaining traction on some campuses around the country, is "Trigger Warning". These are 'alerts' that instructors are expected to sound in the event something within a course might cause a strong emotional

gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 10:02 am

...response. It's like creating and occupying a prophylactic, for the purpose of protecting one from anything that might cause discomfort. In these environments, works of classic lit now come with warning labels. Eliana, we're becoming so fragile!

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
08/13/15 10:06 am

Put those ppl who need "trigger warnings" in professional counseling & out of the classroom. I had complex PTSD when I went to college - twice - & managed to thrive quite well w/o "trigger warnings."

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
08/13/15 10:06 am

No sympathy from me. If you can't deal w/challenging opinions/info you don't belong in college. You belong in a rubber room.

gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 10:12 am

Even more than that, "if you can't deal w/challenging opinions", it defies reason that one could even find a spot to occupy in real life!

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
08/13/15 10:18 am

Precisely!

As someone who struggled *profoundly* w/REAL triggers & flashbacks & paralyzing panic attacks - & counseled many others w/same - the *last* thing ppl who struggle w/REAL trigger issues wants is to be *molly coddled* or put *center stage*!

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
08/13/15 10:21 am

Anyone who uses "triggers" as an excuse to *garner* attention & special treatment is a malinger. Laugh in their face & carry on. They are just attempting to manipulate you. Don't be so gullible.

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
08/13/15 1:08 pm

Rick and Bubba who have a syndicated radio show that I enjoy like to call this the "wussification" of America.

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
08/13/15 1:09 pm

E, I agree with you, as usual. πŸ˜ƒ

dmc
08/13/15 4:55 pm

I'm offended by the use of the word trigger. They need to change it.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
08/13/15 5:11 pm

ROTFMAO!!! πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚. πŸ‘πŸ‘πŸ‘

jvc1133 61535
08/13/15 6:29 am

I need coffee. 😁

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 6:49 am

β˜•οΈ...
Here ya go, man! Slowly but surely, we'll get those neurotransmitter's firin'! 😝

Think Lovin Life
08/13/15 3:56 pm

Looks like it never happened ...

shygal47 Florida east coast
08/13/15 6:24 am

I think that as Americans we believe we have a right to challenge the status quo. But I also believe that as we mature/age (most of us), we either become more empathetic or more hurtful. Some forget: Judge not lest ye be judged.

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 6:58 am

Ahhh, NICE shygal! I think this a rather accurate assessment of the way things actually happen to be. And a fitting incorporation of Matthew 7:1! Thank you!

shygal47 Florida east coast
08/13/15 8:59 am

Your welcome, gonzo. :)

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
08/13/15 12:56 pm

Shygal & Gonzo, I agree up to the point of invoking Matt. 7:1, because in context, it is not at all about judging in the way the it is commonly seen today, but rather about using the same measure for all & not being hypocritical. I would submit that

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
08/13/15 12:59 pm

as adults, we should "speak the truth in love" (Eph. 4:15) & treat others as we want to be treated (Matt. 7:12). πŸ’œ

gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 2:01 pm

And I think we're ALL right, for applying the Scripture as principle, as a guide, a reference. But, as it pertains to things Spiritual, I will defer to you, Sweet Bama...😊

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
08/13/15 2:04 pm

I agree it should be our reference & guide. Thank you for your kind sentiment, my sweet Gonzo. 😊

theW0lf Leader of the Pack
08/13/15 5:48 am

I didn't know we had a right to not be offended. Last time I checked, opinions were legal

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 6:08 am

W0lf, they are legal. From the 'keep-your-opinions-to-yourself' school of thought, there are those who fully expect to be protected from those opinions, even to the point of hostility towards opponents of opinions different than their own.
It's just

gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 6:08 am

...my conjecture that this is a fairly recent phenomenon, and I also believe you can find it's origins and institutionalizations on college campuses across America. :)

2katz I live in Nebraska
08/13/15 9:33 am

Gonzo is right. Many now grudgingly admit that opinions are legal but they have a right and a duty to punish those who express those differing from theirs.

theW0lf Leader of the Pack
08/13/15 10:00 am

I agree... If someone disagrees with you, there will be blood spilled nowadays.

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
08/13/15 12:28 pm

I fear Gonzo's assertions about the origin of this belief is also correct which does not bode well for the future of this nation unless we figure out a way to change that school of thought.

Diogenes FreeMeBe
08/13/15 5:18 am

Where is complain about everything and not take action?

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 5:52 am

D'oh!
To your point, an interesting policy was instituted in my workplace. 'Suggestion' boxes were chronically congested with complaints, so Management stipulated that 'suggestions' be accompanied by solutions and recommendations, and how those...

gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 5:53 am

...would be implemented. A few months later, those boxes were taken down for lack of use... πŸ˜‚

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
08/13/15 9:34 am

We had a beloved pastor who made it clear, "complaints are welcome & encouraged; complainers will be put in charge of correcting that about which they complain." We never had a lot of complaining. πŸ˜‰

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
08/13/15 9:36 am

My daughter, now well past twice the age she was at that time, *still* stops & asks herself, "am I prepared to DO something to change this?," before she opens her mouth. LOL!

TierasPet
08/13/15 4:20 am

I would say challenging boundaries but I would also say there is a great deal of sensitivity that is expected when having any type of conversation regarding a controversial issue. many people do not mention how they truly feel because they know...

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TierasPet
08/13/15 4:20 am

They will be attacked

gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 4:36 am

I agree with this, dear Tiera. The fear of attack and ridicule is real and compelling, and can be crippling. But, one can push boundaries and be irreverent, while achieving balance with understanding and compassion. I truly believe this.

TierasPet
08/13/15 4:37 am

I believe that too. I do think it's difficult to set out an opinion that goes against what the majority feels is correct no matter how you put that opinion out.

gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 4:45 am

True, dear, and the degree of difficulty is commensurate with the degree of the fear of attack, even retaliation. It can be a tricky slope. So, if one realizes this 'way of the world', is it possible to still overcome? Cognition work, perhaps?...

chickencookie It really is
08/13/15 5:18 am

Anyone else notice how Tiera is sounding more and more lawyer-ish?πŸŽ“πŸ’Ό

gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 5:41 am

That's a fun observation, Cookie! I contend, though, that Tiera has ALWAYS been a skilled and critical thinker, whose thoughts also display a nice symmetry. Lawyering is merely a means to channel that crisp, mental acuity!

TierasPet
08/13/15 6:06 am

Thank you chickencookie. As to the ability to overcome this, I do believe that's possible. However, your wording needs to be extremely careful and it does need to be sensitive to the opinions others hold. Otherwise, your argument dies on the floor.

gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 6:14 am

Tiera, this is so nicely stated, and I could NOT agree more, and your thought here is both simple AND profound, which makes it complex. It is THIS, that I aspire to ALWAYS be able to do.

chickencookie It really is
08/13/15 11:57 am

Wow between the two of you I don't have a chance. You are both so articulate and clear. That's why I need my pictures and drawingsπŸ˜πŸ‘»πŸ‘“πŸ˜œπŸ“πŸͺ

gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 12:11 pm

Dear Cookie, I've never had an issue understanding you, and you're quite expressive! We ALL have our own unique brands of yakkin' here, and I love your tiny artwork!πŸ˜‰

chickencookie It really is
08/13/15 12:23 pm

Tiera's already talking about arguments "lying on the floor" a term that would never occur to me to say. I'm more like "wow". 😬

TierasPet
08/13/15 1:40 pm

LOL. You two. First, you're both far to complimentary here. I've made some very inarticulate statements in my life and on this app. both of you are very well expressed and very easy to understand. I've left my argument on the floor a few times. 😳

gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 2:09 pm

I can't be "too complimentary", as my compliments are only expressed when they fall directly in line with truth as I perceive it, the same as I can't be 'too truthful'. Your modesty and humility are duly noted.😊

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
08/13/15 4:05 am

Challenging boundaries for sure!

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gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 4:17 am

...the way I lean, too. 😊

orgblu10 Shamerica
08/13/15 3:57 am

Great question, Gonzo! It's close, but I'm going to give the edge to protecting sensitivities, only because it has been institutionalized to such a great degree. In education and media, for sure, but now increasingly in private industry as well.

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orgblu10 Shamerica
08/13/15 3:59 am

Challenging boundaries seems to be more of a grass roots phenomenon, especially among younger people, and more wider-ranging than just America.

orgblu10 Shamerica
08/13/15 4:03 am

Geez, I get up to go to the bathroom at 3:50 am, and you're already making me use my brain - thanks a lot lol!! Oh well, back to bed now. See ya later!

gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 4:07 am

Thanks, org! This almost can't be an 'agree-or-disagree' debate, because I don't think either choice necessarily wrong, or false. It's like looking at America through a prism that's two shades of the same color!

gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 4:16 am

πŸ˜‚... Well org, I hope The Sandman beats the πŸ’© outta ya. That way we'll kill 'two-birds-with-one-stone'!😜

πŸ˜΄πŸ’€

orgblu10 Shamerica
08/13/15 4:22 am

Thanks, buddy, You're right (as usual). Now back to dreamland!

gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 3:23 am

I think challenging boundaries and the irreverence protected by Free Speech is more AmeriCAN...
Whereas the near-excruciating efforts to not see life as it is, but rather a version of life distorted by attachments, is AmeriCA
PURE observation/opinion

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EarlyBird Portland
08/13/15 3:29 am

I agree.
Good morning gonzo!

gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 3:30 am

Sweet Bird! HiHiHi! G'Mornin, Girl!🌞

BamaGirl ROLL TIDE from Arizona
08/13/15 4:08 am

I concur.

Mornin', Gonzo & EB! 🌞

gonzoboy Arizona
08/13/15 4:10 am

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🌝Sweet Home AlaBamBam!🌝
🌝🌝🌝🌝🌝🌝🌝🌝🌝🌝🌝