Pro-Choicers: If you knew for a FACT that the 5 Planned Parenthood videos were unedited and everything that was rumored (baby parts for sale) was true, would you still support Planned Parenthood?
I think most pro-abortion folks don't care about the videos. Several think that it's a good thing.
I would want some oversight in place to make sure profit doesn't become the motivator instead of providing services to women.
You arrest those that sold for profit and maintain the services of planned Parenthood, no need for them to change their overall program
Planned Parenthood doesn't HAVE to be the solution. Defund it.
But there needs to be something else in place to provide the many valuable services that Planned Parenthood provides.
Cancer screenings, HPV vaccines, birth control, and more.
I completely agree! We need to take the place of the other 50% of services that they offer.
I wouldn't support their illegal activities, but they do help people. Shut down their abortion clinic part and allow other safer cleaner abortion clinics to open up. Nobody should be above the law.
I think they've violated the public trust enough that they shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt. There are plenty of organizations that could perform the same services with that money, minus the corruption.
Shut down the abortion section. Allow them to provide access to birth control and other things that they do
Ok, but their operations shouldn't be funded for so long as they're still trafficking body parts, right?
Correct. Nobody should be above the law
Pro-choice people don't worry about pesky facts.
I have not watched the unedited versions entirely, but even the parts of the edited versions I have seen don't raise significant concerns for me. I would have no problem auditing the organization more thoroughly, but they still have my support.
How is it not a concern? I'm really not understanding this. They are legit selling baby parts. One of the pp leaders said, while discussing prices, "I want a Lamborghini." How is that ok?
I would no longer support their role as abortion providers.
Given that abortion services are a tiny fraction of what they provide, I would still support them, yes.
But the Fact is every piece of "evidence" was fabricated and the tapes were edited.
Did you watch the 2 and a half hour video? If they were fake were are several states launching investigations.
Because those states have Republican controlled legislatures and the Republican Party has been trying to kill Planned Parenthood and recriminalize abortion for decades.
Politics as usual.
How was it fabricated? "I want a Lamborghini." Yes, it was edited. She actually said " I want to try the spaghetti." Ridiculous.
Fabricated through creative editing.
Explain! If that's your stance then back it up. Tell me what was edited. I know they edited for time. But that's the same for any news story.
They were not edited simply for time, they were edited to out of context, misleading statements connected together to cause the watcher to infer one meaning when, in fact, something completely different was actually expressed.
They are not "selling baby parts". There is no profit involved.
You seem so convinced that PP is evil you will believe anything that confirms your bias, no matter how outrageous it may be.
What did I say? Give me an example. Give me one part that had edited content and I'll go look at it. Newsflash, you don't get a Lamborghini without profiting! More videos are coming. You'll look stupid soon enough. I guess you'll keep denying though.
If anything factual come out demonstrating a systemic pattern of fraud and selling fetal tissue for profit, I am prepared for the fallout.
I hope you are prepared for the results should the opposite prove true.
I still won't support it because it's sick. But if it's all legit why were they hiding it? If the organization is funded by the government (tax payers) they shouldn't be covering this up. I'm still waiting on the edited piece you speak of lol.
Indiana's investigation into PP absolved them of wrong doing.
So did Florida's (while a couple of sites were dinged for filing paperwork wrong it had nothing to do with fetal tissue)
The videos were I repeat were edited. And Planned Parenthood is more than abortions. It is about women's health cancer screening and contraception
But why aren't the other places that do not provide abortions get $500 million a year?
That's not what the question asked. What if you knew for a fact, you were in the room hearing the whole conversation and you knew they sold babies for profit. Would you still support them?
I support pp, I just don't support them being funded with tax dollars
Zero of those tax dollars go toward elective abortions.
Let me save you some time. You're using an abortion argument on someone who is pro choice
That is the main reason most want them defunded. The bulk of that money goes towards women's health care. You should be aware that the ACA does have holes in it & several states refused the expanded Medicare funding that would help close those gaps.
Planned parenthood helps fill those gaps.
In the videos which you have not seen the doctors clearly talk about profiting from aborted body parts. Babies that are alive as the later they are born the better it is for them. How could this not bother you?
Face palm you seem to be under this assumption that if the government doesn't fund it, it doesn't exist
I'm not sure who told you that but the millions of private charities disagree with you
Tell me about the millions of private charities out there that provide the same services as Planned Parenthood please.
Why would there be millions that do the same thing as one already funded by the money printing federal government?
Get rid of the fed funding and there will be. Your mindset is basically 'if the fed doesn't do it, it's impossible'
And your mindset is f the fed doesn't do it someone else will fill the void adequately. An idea proven wrong over and over and over again.
How about you pick any service, for which the government does not provide support, that is covered by charities to adequately meet the need.
Hahah that's hilarious. The government doesn't even adequately meet the needs of the programs it supports
Nice evasion. Not an answer. Cheers!
A www did I not play ball with your logical fallacy? Blow me kid
Lol, and now you resort to insults and taunts. Thanks for the amusement.
Aww you're mad. That's adorable
Keep crying 😆
Yes; a single doctor breaking the law wouldn't justify shutting down an important organization. Should all religious institutions be shut down because so many priests have molested innocent children?
Who's shutting it down? It just doesn't need to be funded with tax dollars.
Lots of successful charities and organizations don't receive one cent of government money
I took "support" to mean support keeping it running. But I would still support funding too, regardless.
That said, government funding and tax exempt status are both special benefits, so my analogy stands.
And I don't agree with either. Churches are a business. If you're going to tax dominos, you should tax churches too
Fair enough. I wouldn't be opposed to re-examining aspects of the tax code.
Still support PP though, just like I support funding lots of other important nonprofits.
I think we agree pp provides some important services for women and that's good. We just disagree on the government's role in that
Fair enough. I don't object to government subsidies in the abstract. As long as they support valid work and aren't granted in an unreasonable or unfair manner.
It's a side track, but how are churches a business?
They're incorporated entities.
They sell salvation and peace of mind. And while business is decreasing, it's still a huge industry
A business is something that has a goal of profit. Major difference
Not necessarily. Non profit businesses, are still businesses.
And the church does make a profit. A huge profit
My church doesnt. Right now we don't even make enough to pay our bills
A lot of businesses have that problem. Maybe you need a better marketing plan.
Well, people not money is our top priority
Of course. Customers should be the number 1 focus of a business.
Why so cynical?
Am I? I'm not trying to be. That's just how my brain views that organization. It's not a knock
To me businesses try to make a profit for those who own it. While our church would live to bring in more than what our bills cost, it would go back into doing things for the community. Nobody owns the church, there is nobody to make a profit.
"there is nobody to make a profit."
Sure there are. Who do you think owns those mega churches? They make bank
I wouldn't know who owns those, my church worships in a,school cafeteria.
K, well there are other churches besides yours. And most make a profit
If a church has been validated by the IRS as 501(c)(3) tax exempt (most have), it doesn't have "owners." In large standardized denominations, the entity that controls each individual church is generally an arm of the denomination.
Yes many do make a profit, but that money doesn't go back to any owners us my point. It goes to do charity work around the community, the country, and the world.
That's cool if that's how your church is run, but it's pretty common for pastors of churches to be pretty well off, especially if they have a big congregation
And that's fine. They provide a service and customers pay willingly.
I've never been part of a church where the pastor is that well off. I'm ok with them making a decent living, but my experience is the goal of more offerings is to do more work with.
Just to clarify, I understand that many churches do bring in more than they spend from year to year, but technically that isn't "profit." "Profit" is a term with a specific meaning in business. Churches have no shareholders and issue no dividends.
I don't have shareholders or a dividend in my business. What should I be calling the money I make if not 'profit'?
You do have shareholders, unless you're a nonprofit or run your business as a sole proprietor. You may be the sole shareholder, but that's still one shareholder. I didn't mean to suggest profits equate to dividends - just used it as an example.
So when a church makes a profit, err, I mean...uhh, a 'heavenly surplus', at the end of the year...you understand that they are under no obligation to invest that back into the business right? They can and in many cases do pay out to their...
...shareholders, err I mean 'volunteers'.
I think we're talking semantics at this point
It isn't semantics. Nonprofits are permitted to have employees. If a church pays money flat-out to church members on an unlawful basis (eg, not for legitimately charitable purposes), this can trigger an IRS investigation. Shareholders have specific
rights that are codified into law. I don't deny for a minute that there are churches that violate IRS regulations, but nonprofits and for-profit entities really do function differently.
I think we're saying the same thing. Non profits is such a silly misleading term, because they just pay their people the excess profits.
The Red Cross is "non profit". The director was making over half a million a year.
We have employees, but they have a fixed salary. This past year we actually had to reduce everyone's salary. If we brought in more we would like to raise them back up to what they made before. After that any extra money goes into funds for programs
We will do. Not a bonus to any employees or volunteers.
Well, not to belabor the issue, and I understand if you're done with the convo/you've lost interest, but an employee, even a highly-paid employee, isn't the same thing as a shareholder. Granted, in nonprofits, executives have more power than in for-
profit entities to overpay themselves - this is usually balanced out by the fact that nonprofit budgets tend to be much lower, but of course with exceptions. But I do think the difference between employees and shareholders is important, especially
when talking about nonprofits with a sufficiently independent board of directors (which ideally would be all profits). An ED making seven figures is definitely worth a raised eyebrow, but not *necessarily* inherently unfair.
Haha I misread and thought you said million and a half. Honestly, 500k is borderline but an ED of a major nonprofit actually could be doing enough work to warrant pay around there. Very, very few nonprofits would warrant it, but a handful might.
They could video them eating the babies and I will still support Pp.
Putting aside "women's health" if you knew for a fact that all of this happened - let's say your friend worked at PP you worked at PP - you just know that all these videos in fact were happening forever and babies were for sale, would you still
Support them despite their illegal activity?
The answer is yes. Yes they would.
Yes, I will always #standwithPP
Th...bu...uh...That's not awesome 😢
My beliefs and opinions aren't awesome? Okay then. You have yours, I have mine, let's respect each other
You are AwesomeJenna 8)
Yes, I would absolutely still support them.
I would support a complete gutting of every high up official and putting in new management but not getting rid of planned Parenthood as a whole
I would be against them if they didn't have consent from the women getting the abortions.
So you think it's fine taking a baby (in many cases still alive) and then cutting it up and selling it? The baby is able to feel pain.
I'm pro-choice. My views on abortion are most likely very different from your own. I'm just giving you my honest opinion.
I don't see any reason why this is a government supported program in the first place. If people have needs that it offers then pay yourself.
It isn't. Zero of your tax dollars go to elective abortion services.
What about the rest of their services...
Why do they need funding at all. Doesn't Obamacare cover women's health.
The ACA is not perfect and Many states chose not to accept the Medicaid expansion. As a result there are still people with no or very limited coverage. So the answer is yes, it still needs funding and no, Obamacare does cover everyone.
I still say it's your job to take care of your own coverage for those expenses
So health care is a privilege that should only be available to those who have money?
I get mine through work. When choosing career paths I thought about what positions would provide Healthcare
I see. Well, not everyone has your opportunities. Have a nice day.
You are right, not everyone comes from blue collar families that had never before had a college grad, but had time spent on welfare. Not everyone has that
Why so defensive? I am not trying to take anything away from you.
It is a sad world we live in if people are so set on denying the things that they benefitted from in their lives.
I don't want to deny opportunities, I just don't like giving stuff for free to people. I want major tax and program cuts.
They're not children to those people.
And if it was truly a choice they wouldn't force their belief of human experimentation, on Christians, through taxation.
It will be pretty soon when *we* aren't "people" to them.
Best get your "yellow-star" ready to sew on your shirts.
It'll be a cross...