Show of HandsShow of Hands

chickencookie August 5th, 2015 11:15pm

Pro-Choicers: If you knew for a FACT that the 5 Planned Parenthood videos were unedited and everything that was rumored (baby parts for sale) was true, would you still support Planned Parenthood?

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thebarr
08/08/15 1:37 pm

I think most pro-abortion folks don't care about the videos. Several think that it's a good thing.

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fireguy5454 Indiana
08/08/15 6:45 am

I would want some oversight in place to make sure profit doesn't become the motivator instead of providing services to women.

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brentwho Home
08/07/15 10:28 pm

You arrest those that sold for profit and maintain the services of planned Parenthood, no need for them to change their overall program

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moriahdanielle Des Moines, IA
08/06/15 10:13 pm

Planned Parenthood doesn't HAVE to be the solution. Defund it.
But there needs to be something else in place to provide the many valuable services that Planned Parenthood provides.
Cancer screenings, HPV vaccines, birth control, and more.

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thebarr
08/08/15 1:36 pm

I completely agree! We need to take the place of the other 50% of services that they offer.

BetweenRivers
08/06/15 2:48 pm

I wouldn't support their illegal activities, but they do help people. Shut down their abortion clinic part and allow other safer cleaner abortion clinics to open up. Nobody should be above the law.

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brianator2
08/06/15 3:24 pm

I think they've violated the public trust enough that they shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt. There are plenty of organizations that could perform the same services with that money, minus the corruption.

BetweenRivers
08/06/15 3:35 pm

Shut down the abortion section. Allow them to provide access to birth control and other things that they do

brianator2
08/06/15 3:59 pm

Ok, but their operations shouldn't be funded for so long as they're still trafficking body parts, right?

BetweenRivers
08/06/15 4:02 pm

Correct. Nobody should be above the law

brianator2
08/06/15 2:26 pm

Pro-choice people don't worry about pesky facts.

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BusinessJustin Tamriel
08/06/15 2:23 am

I have not watched the unedited versions entirely, but even the parts of the edited versions I have seen don't raise significant concerns for me. I would have no problem auditing the organization more thoroughly, but they still have my support.

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jayblake22
08/06/15 1:46 pm

How is it not a concern? I'm really not understanding this. They are legit selling baby parts. One of the pp leaders said, while discussing prices, "I want a Lamborghini." How is that ok?

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/05/15 7:52 pm

I would no longer support their role as abortion providers.

Given that abortion services are a tiny fraction of what they provide, I would still support them, yes.

But the Fact is every piece of "evidence" was fabricated and the tapes were edited.

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chickencookie It really is
08/05/15 9:32 pm

Did you watch the 2 and a half hour video? If they were fake were are several states launching investigations.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/06/15 12:39 am

Because those states have Republican controlled legislatures and the Republican Party has been trying to kill Planned Parenthood and recriminalize abortion for decades.
Politics as usual.

jayblake22
08/06/15 1:47 pm

How was it fabricated? "I want a Lamborghini." Yes, it was edited. She actually said " I want to try the spaghetti." Ridiculous.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/06/15 1:58 pm

Fabricated through creative editing.

jayblake22
08/06/15 2:34 pm

Explain! If that's your stance then back it up. Tell me what was edited. I know they edited for time. But that's the same for any news story.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/06/15 7:39 pm

They were not edited simply for time, they were edited to out of context, misleading statements connected together to cause the watcher to infer one meaning when, in fact, something completely different was actually expressed.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/06/15 7:44 pm

They are not "selling baby parts". There is no profit involved.

You seem so convinced that PP is evil you will believe anything that confirms your bias, no matter how outrageous it may be.

jayblake22
08/06/15 7:48 pm

What did I say? Give me an example. Give me one part that had edited content and I'll go look at it. Newsflash, you don't get a Lamborghini without profiting! More videos are coming. You'll look stupid soon enough. I guess you'll keep denying though.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/06/15 8:45 pm

If anything factual come out demonstrating a systemic pattern of fraud and selling fetal tissue for profit, I am prepared for the fallout.

I hope you are prepared for the results should the opposite prove true.

jayblake22
08/06/15 8:52 pm

I still won't support it because it's sick. But if it's all legit why were they hiding it? If the organization is funded by the government (tax payers) they shouldn't be covering this up. I'm still waiting on the edited piece you speak of lol.

Maj Worth Economist
08/06/15 10:10 pm

Indiana's investigation into PP absolved them of wrong doing.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/06/15 11:37 pm

So did Florida's (while a couple of sites were dinged for filing paperwork wrong it had nothing to do with fetal tissue)

MaxineL New Jersey
08/05/15 7:28 pm

The videos were I repeat were edited. And Planned Parenthood is more than abortions. It is about women's health cancer screening and contraception

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chickencookie It really is
08/05/15 9:30 pm

But why aren't the other places that do not provide abortions get $500 million a year?

chickencookie It really is
08/06/15 2:41 pm

That's not what the question asked. What if you knew for a fact, you were in the room hearing the whole conversation and you knew they sold babies for profit. Would you still support them?

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
08/05/15 5:44 pm

I support pp, I just don't support them being funded with tax dollars

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FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/05/15 7:52 pm

Zero of those tax dollars go toward elective abortions.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
08/05/15 8:16 pm

So?

Let me save you some time. You're using an abortion argument on someone who is pro choice

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/06/15 12:42 am

That is the main reason most want them defunded. The bulk of that money goes towards women's health care. You should be aware that the ACA does have holes in it & several states refused the expanded Medicare funding that would help close those gaps.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/06/15 12:43 am

Planned parenthood helps fill those gaps.

chickencookie It really is
08/06/15 5:25 am

In the videos which you have not seen the doctors clearly talk about profiting from aborted body parts. Babies that are alive as the later they are born the better it is for them. How could this not bother you?

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
08/06/15 7:39 am

Face palm you seem to be under this assumption that if the government doesn't fund it, it doesn't exist

I'm not sure who told you that but the millions of private charities disagree with you

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/06/15 1:55 pm

Tell me about the millions of private charities out there that provide the same services as Planned Parenthood please.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
08/06/15 4:45 pm

Why would there be millions that do the same thing as one already funded by the money printing federal government?

Get rid of the fed funding and there will be. Your mindset is basically 'if the fed doesn't do it, it's impossible'

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/06/15 7:13 pm

And your mindset is f the fed doesn't do it someone else will fill the void adequately. An idea proven wrong over and over and over again.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/06/15 7:50 pm

How about you pick any service, for which the government does not provide support, that is covered by charities to adequately meet the need.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
08/06/15 11:13 pm

Hahah that's hilarious. The government doesn't even adequately meet the needs of the programs it supports

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
08/07/15 8:46 am

A www did I not play ball with your logical fallacy? Blow me kid

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/07/15 8:48 am

Lol, and now you resort to insults and taunts. Thanks for the amusement.

😂😂😂

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
08/07/15 9:05 am

Aww you're mad. That's adorable

Keep crying 😆

bethanyq Ess Eff
08/05/15 5:41 pm

Yes; a single doctor breaking the law wouldn't justify shutting down an important organization. Should all religious institutions be shut down because so many priests have molested innocent children?

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CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
08/05/15 5:54 pm

Who's shutting it down? It just doesn't need to be funded with tax dollars.

Lots of successful charities and organizations don't receive one cent of government money

bethanyq Ess Eff
08/05/15 5:59 pm

I took "support" to mean support keeping it running. But I would still support funding too, regardless.

That said, government funding and tax exempt status are both special benefits, so my analogy stands.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
08/05/15 6:00 pm

And I don't agree with either. Churches are a business. If you're going to tax dominos, you should tax churches too

bethanyq Ess Eff
08/05/15 6:06 pm

Fair enough. I wouldn't be opposed to re-examining aspects of the tax code.

Still support PP though, just like I support funding lots of other important nonprofits.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
08/05/15 6:08 pm

I think we agree pp provides some important services for women and that's good. We just disagree on the government's role in that

bethanyq Ess Eff
08/05/15 6:13 pm

Fair enough. I don't object to government subsidies in the abstract. As long as they support valid work and aren't granted in an unreasonable or unfair manner.

bluerum29 optimistic idealist
08/05/15 8:50 pm

It's a side track, but how are churches a business?

bethanyq Ess Eff
08/05/15 9:00 pm

They're incorporated entities.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
08/05/15 9:06 pm

They sell salvation and peace of mind. And while business is decreasing, it's still a huge industry

bluerum29 optimistic idealist
08/05/15 10:09 pm

A business is something that has a goal of profit. Major difference

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
08/05/15 10:48 pm

Not necessarily. Non profit businesses, are still businesses.

And the church does make a profit. A huge profit

bluerum29 optimistic idealist
08/06/15 5:36 am

My church doesnt. Right now we don't even make enough to pay our bills

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
08/06/15 7:40 am

A lot of businesses have that problem. Maybe you need a better marketing plan.

bluerum29 optimistic idealist
08/06/15 7:46 am

Well, people not money is our top priority

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
08/06/15 12:25 pm

Of course. Customers should be the number 1 focus of a business.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
08/06/15 4:47 pm

Am I? I'm not trying to be. That's just how my brain views that organization. It's not a knock

bluerum29 optimistic idealist
08/06/15 5:08 pm

To me businesses try to make a profit for those who own it. While our church would live to bring in more than what our bills cost, it would go back into doing things for the community. Nobody owns the church, there is nobody to make a profit.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
08/06/15 11:11 pm

"there is nobody to make a profit."

Sure there are. Who do you think owns those mega churches? They make bank

bluerum29 optimistic idealist
08/07/15 5:51 am

I wouldn't know who owns those, my church worships in a,school cafeteria.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
08/07/15 8:47 am

K, well there are other churches besides yours. And most make a profit

bethanyq Ess Eff
08/07/15 9:22 am

If a church has been validated by the IRS as 501(c)(3) tax exempt (most have), it doesn't have "owners." In large standardized denominations, the entity that controls each individual church is generally an arm of the denomination.

bluerum29 optimistic idealist
08/07/15 10:02 am

Yes many do make a profit, but that money doesn't go back to any owners us my point. It goes to do charity work around the community, the country, and the world.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
08/07/15 10:06 am

That's cool if that's how your church is run, but it's pretty common for pastors of churches to be pretty well off, especially if they have a big congregation

And that's fine. They provide a service and customers pay willingly.

bluerum29 optimistic idealist
08/07/15 10:14 am

I've never been part of a church where the pastor is that well off. I'm ok with them making a decent living, but my experience is the goal of more offerings is to do more work with.

bethanyq Ess Eff
08/07/15 10:17 am

Just to clarify, I understand that many churches do bring in more than they spend from year to year, but technically that isn't "profit." "Profit" is a term with a specific meaning in business. Churches have no shareholders and issue no dividends.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
08/07/15 12:07 pm

I don't have shareholders or a dividend in my business. What should I be calling the money I make if not 'profit'?

bethanyq Ess Eff
08/07/15 12:12 pm

You do have shareholders, unless you're a nonprofit or run your business as a sole proprietor. You may be the sole shareholder, but that's still one shareholder. I didn't mean to suggest profits equate to dividends - just used it as an example.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
08/07/15 12:49 pm

So when a church makes a profit, err, I mean...uhh, a 'heavenly surplus', at the end of the year...you understand that they are under no obligation to invest that back into the business right? They can and in many cases do pay out to their...

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
08/07/15 12:50 pm

...shareholders, err I mean 'volunteers'.

I think we're talking semantics at this point

bethanyq Ess Eff
08/07/15 1:24 pm

It isn't semantics. Nonprofits are permitted to have employees. If a church pays money flat-out to church members on an unlawful basis (eg, not for legitimately charitable purposes), this can trigger an IRS investigation. Shareholders have specific

bethanyq Ess Eff
08/07/15 1:25 pm

rights that are codified into law. I don't deny for a minute that there are churches that violate IRS regulations, but nonprofits and for-profit entities really do function differently.

CoffeeNow Powderpuff Leftist
08/07/15 3:25 pm

I think we're saying the same thing. Non profits is such a silly misleading term, because they just pay their people the excess profits.

The Red Cross is "non profit". The director was making over half a million a year.

bluerum29 optimistic idealist
08/07/15 3:41 pm

We have employees, but they have a fixed salary. This past year we actually had to reduce everyone's salary. If we brought in more we would like to raise them back up to what they made before. After that any extra money goes into funds for programs

bluerum29 optimistic idealist
08/07/15 3:41 pm

We will do. Not a bonus to any employees or volunteers.

bethanyq Ess Eff
08/07/15 3:55 pm

Well, not to belabor the issue, and I understand if you're done with the convo/you've lost interest, but an employee, even a highly-paid employee, isn't the same thing as a shareholder. Granted, in nonprofits, executives have more power than in for-

bethanyq Ess Eff
08/07/15 3:56 pm

profit entities to overpay themselves - this is usually balanced out by the fact that nonprofit budgets tend to be much lower, but of course with exceptions. But I do think the difference between employees and shareholders is important, especially

bethanyq Ess Eff
08/07/15 3:57 pm

when talking about nonprofits with a sufficiently independent board of directors (which ideally would be all profits). An ED making seven figures is definitely worth a raised eyebrow, but not *necessarily* inherently unfair.

bethanyq Ess Eff
08/07/15 3:58 pm

Haha I misread and thought you said million and a half. Honestly, 500k is borderline but an ED of a major nonprofit actually could be doing enough work to warrant pay around there. Very, very few nonprofits would warrant it, but a handful might.

rons screw politicians
08/05/15 5:31 pm

They could video them eating the babies and I will still support Pp.

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steelcity Pittsburgh
08/05/15 5:35 pm

That.......just wow.

chickencookie It really is
08/05/15 4:55 pm

Putting aside "women's health" if you knew for a fact that all of this happened - let's say your friend worked at PP you worked at PP - you just know that all these videos in fact were happening forever and babies were for sale, would you still

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chickencookie It really is
08/05/15 4:55 pm

Support them despite their illegal activity?

cowboy Here and There
08/05/15 5:05 pm

The answer is yes. Yes they would.

JennaAwesome Book Lover
08/05/15 4:53 pm

Yes, I will always #standwithPP

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iPolitix Political Party Animal
08/05/15 5:00 pm

Th...bu...uh...That's not awesome 😢

JennaAwesome Book Lover
08/05/15 5:03 pm

My beliefs and opinions aren't awesome? Okay then. You have yours, I have mine, let's respect each other

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/05/15 7:53 pm

You are AwesomeJenna 8)

Cole12 ...
08/05/15 4:53 pm

Yes, I would absolutely still support them.

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jvberg Winter has Come
08/05/15 4:51 pm

I would support a complete gutting of every high up official and putting in new management but not getting rid of planned Parenthood as a whole

Carolynn new jersey
08/05/15 4:44 pm

I would be against them if they didn't have consent from the women getting the abortions.

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chickencookie It really is
08/05/15 4:50 pm

So you think it's fine taking a baby (in many cases still alive) and then cutting it up and selling it? The baby is able to feel pain.

Carolynn new jersey
08/05/15 9:28 pm

I'm pro-choice. My views on abortion are most likely very different from your own. I'm just giving you my honest opinion.

bluerum29 optimistic idealist
08/05/15 4:26 pm

I don't see any reason why this is a government supported program in the first place. If people have needs that it offers then pay yourself.

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FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/05/15 7:54 pm

It isn't. Zero of your tax dollars go to elective abortion services.

bluerum29 optimistic idealist
08/05/15 8:48 pm

What about the rest of their services...

chickencookie It really is
08/05/15 9:35 pm

Why do they need funding at all. Doesn't Obamacare cover women's health.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/06/15 12:24 am

The ACA is not perfect and Many states chose not to accept the Medicaid expansion. As a result there are still people with no or very limited coverage. So the answer is yes, it still needs funding and no, Obamacare does cover everyone.

bluerum29 optimistic idealist
08/06/15 5:38 am

I still say it's your job to take care of your own coverage for those expenses

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/06/15 7:52 pm

So health care is a privilege that should only be available to those who have money?

bluerum29 optimistic idealist
08/06/15 8:37 pm

I get mine through work. When choosing career paths I thought about what positions would provide Healthcare

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/06/15 8:41 pm

I see. Well, not everyone has your opportunities. Have a nice day.

bluerum29 optimistic idealist
08/06/15 10:12 pm

You are right, not everyone comes from blue collar families that had never before had a college grad, but had time spent on welfare. Not everyone has that

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/07/15 1:47 am

Why so defensive? I am not trying to take anything away from you.

It is a sad world we live in if people are so set on denying the things that they benefitted from in their lives.

bluerum29 optimistic idealist
08/07/15 5:53 am

I don't want to deny opportunities, I just don't like giving stuff for free to people. I want major tax and program cuts.

cowboy Here and There
08/05/15 4:25 pm

They're not children to those people.

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cowboy Here and There
08/05/15 4:27 pm

And if it was truly a choice they wouldn't force their belief of human experimentation, on Christians, through taxation.

iPolitix Political Party Animal
08/05/15 5:03 pm

It will be pretty soon when *we* aren't "people" to them.
😓
Best get your "yellow-star" ready to sew on your shirts.

cowboy Here and There
08/05/15 5:07 pm

It'll be a cross...