Show of HandsShow of Hands

Mattwall1 August 2nd, 2015 9:03pm

While debating the legality of abortion, someone that identifies as pro life tells those that are pro choice "I wish you all were a terminated zygote." If you were in the group this was said to, would you be able to forgive the person that said it?

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rickvee Living the dream
08/03/15 12:45 pm

Yes, you can't stay angry at the mentally handicapped. They can only do so much with their limitations...

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rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
08/02/15 10:29 pm

Much along the line I've used that all pro abortion folks, were born.

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rickvee Living the dream
08/03/15 12:45 pm

And now they have the freedom to choose for themselves. Well, unless the state decides to take yet another freedom away...

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
08/03/15 12:47 pm

One area I can't agree with the freedom argument. A child has rights too.

rickvee Living the dream
08/03/15 1:31 pm

Well, I know that you know what happens when government is allowed to take ANY freedom away...

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
08/04/15 3:34 am

Abortion violates the non aggression principle

Ebola1 Florida
08/02/15 7:39 pm

Sure, I forgave someone who wished cancer on me or a loved one the day my wife was diagnosed with cancer so, while I didn't take it well, I think this is small potatoes. Not that she cared whether I forgave her or not.

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FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/02/15 8:35 pm

I will never understand how an adult would wish death or pain on another person.

alval California
08/02/15 9:41 pm

Wow, sorry that you went through this...sad.

KAnne Atlantic City, NJ
08/02/15 6:04 pm

It's a silly insult, so yes.

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crazyjane New Jersey
08/02/15 6:00 pm

Yes i can forgive them for being hypocritical and dumb

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rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
08/02/15 10:29 pm

How is it hypocritical

crazyjane New Jersey
08/03/15 12:43 am

For some against abortion to want a person to have been aborted. How do you not see it?

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
08/03/15 4:03 am

It was obviously sarcastic.

crazyjane New Jersey
08/03/15 5:10 am

Not obvious

Mattwall1
08/03/15 8:47 am

Rebel-trust me, this was not said in anything but seriousness

lip massholevania
08/02/15 6:00 pm

Who cares what murders think?

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yeagermeister Toledo, OH
08/02/15 5:37 pm

I think most of you are misunderstanding the statement being made by the pro lifer. They are most likely not wishing you would die but instead trying to open your eyes. If you had been aborted, all of your family and friends would be completely

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yeagermeister Toledo, OH
08/02/15 5:39 pm

Ignorant to the fact that you would have ever existed. Only then do you realize that this has been the case for all these abortions. Countless numbers of friends and family cease to exist and we will never know the joy these people could have

yeagermeister Toledo, OH
08/02/15 5:39 pm

Brought to our lives

bethanyq Ess Eff
08/02/15 5:56 pm

Except that if all us pro-choicers had been aborted, there would be no one for the anti-abortion movement to contend with. They'd get what they wanted. I find it hard to believe they would honestly say they don't think that would be better.

yeagermeister Toledo, OH
08/02/15 6:16 pm

Kind of messed up logic there, I don't think anyone who supports life would wish death on someone else for opposing their view. At least no one that I know does.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/02/15 7:28 pm

It seems a bit silly to spend one scintilla of my time thinking about how people who were never born may or may not have impacted my life, or anyone else's. To suggest that I should is a lousy argument against abortion and the right to choose.

yeagermeister Toledo, OH
08/02/15 7:42 pm

Maybe it is maybe it isn't. I was just trying to make a point that maybe the people who make those statements aren't being as harsh as you might think.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/02/15 8:54 pm

No, it really is lousy.

Wishing death, torture, etc. on someone or their loved ones is ugly and never a good persuasive tactic.

yeagermeister Toledo, OH
08/03/15 4:34 am

That's what I was trying to say, they are not literally wishing death on you. They are just trying to make you think about the issue on a different light and make you see what has been taken away from abortions. I can say this because I know people

yeagermeister Toledo, OH
08/03/15 4:34 am

That hold this view

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/03/15 4:45 am

The phrase "I wish you had been a terminated zygote" is in no way or form a plea for understanding or consideration of might-have-beens. It's an emotional lashing out, like "I wish you were dead!".
And still not a good tactic.

yeagermeister Toledo, OH
08/03/15 5:00 am

If you are too emotionally caught up in an issue to see a point that's not my or anyone else's problem. However, I will tell you again that it is in no way shape or form a lashing out and wishing you were actually dead.

yeagermeister Toledo, OH
08/03/15 5:02 am

I also never said it was a good tactic, I don't personally think that this is a good point. I was simply trying to add clarity to people like you that believe they wish you were actually dead.

bethanyq Ess Eff
08/03/15 6:08 am

Yeager, you're talking about something else. Saying "I wish you'd been aborted" IS lashing out. It isn't the same thing as the equally-asinine but less emotionally-incontinent "what if you had been aborted?"

yeagermeister Toledo, OH
08/03/15 7:43 am

Maybe that's how you view it, but when I've heard people use this, it has been a sarcastic remark with no actual ill will.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/03/15 5:20 pm

Wow, your response is to imply that I am being emotional? Clearly you have tired of repeating the only argument you have, an argument which is a stretch at best.
Bethany has summarized it nicely.
Have a nice day.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/03/15 6:31 pm

Wow, your response is to imply that I am being emotional? Clearly you have tired of repeating the only argument you have, an argument which is a stretch at best.
Bethany has summarized it nicely.
Have a nice day.

Diogenes FreeMeBe
08/02/15 4:38 pm

I could forgive, but that's kind of counter to the belief of the one saying it. Perhaps s/he could also wish our body parts be sold for scrap.

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/02/15 3:46 pm

It is a ridiculous thing to say given the position being defended. I laugh at them 8)

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Zod Above Pugetropolis
08/02/15 3:35 pm

Nothing to forgive. I probably feel the same way about them, even though I'd find a more appropriate way to express it. It is optimistic to expect much compassion from most on the "pro-life" (screw you) side of the abortion argument.

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kspells TheOtherOtherside
08/02/15 3:11 pm

What's the difference: Drop dead, Go to hell, I wish you had never been born, all just opinions that only effect the person saying them & no one else. Let them deal with their emotions. No forgiveness necessary

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Liberty 4,032,064
08/02/15 3:09 pm

Obviously. What would prevent anyone from forgiving? You either choose to or choose not to.

rons WOKE is sick
08/02/15 2:47 pm

Creeps on both sides of the fence.

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LeftLibertarian The Age of Outrage
08/02/15 2:35 pm

Sure, I can forgive cowboy for calling me a "baby killer" 8 fucking times after all. 😂

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bethanyq Ess Eff
08/02/15 2:27 pm

"Forgive" isn't really the right word. "Laugh at and move on with my life" would be much closer.

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bethanyq Ess Eff
08/02/15 2:32 pm

Oh - I've also retorted "I guess that'd be win-win, wouldn't it, because then I wouldn't have to listen to you losing your shit that I disagree with you" when I've had similarly rude or pointless things said to me.

DrReid Ever present.
08/02/15 2:23 pm

It's the blatant hypocrisy that bothers me about that one.

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b4mytime Orange County, CA
08/02/15 2:32 pm

Is it really hypocritical though? Isn't that kind of like saying it's hypocritical to tell someone who defends rape "I hope you get raped?" It actually makes sense in a "see how it feels?" kinda way, to be fair.

Mattwall1
08/02/15 3:16 pm

To me at least, it WOULD seem hypocritical for someone to say that while saying they're against rape

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
08/02/15 3:47 pm

Both statement are hypocritical.

Mattwall1
08/02/15 2:27 pm

Whoever came up with that saying didn't understand the power of words and psychology. But the point is valid in this case

EnderWiggin So disillusioned...
08/02/15 3:23 pm

I became inured and immune to verbal meanness at an early age. Possibly as my brother used the sticks and stones, that I knew the lack of power behind the words.

b4mytime Orange County, CA
08/02/15 2:13 pm

I'd forgive them because it's an extremely sensitive issue that deals with what they consider to be murder. Anything that involves a voiceless victim (or at least what someone considers a victim) will result in strong emotions and statements.

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b4mytime Orange County, CA
08/02/15 2:28 pm

By the way I'm neither pro life nor pro choice. I tend to be okay with abortion bc I personally don't find it so tragic or outrageous that someone was never able to exist in this world to begin with, as long as there's no suffering involved.

MachoMatt84 Privileged to serve.
08/02/15 2:11 pm

I take that statement as equivalent to "I wish you had never been born" or worse "I wish you were dead".

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b4mytime Orange County, CA
08/02/15 2:16 pm

But saying, "This is out of bounds" is equivalent to saying "Abortion isn't that bad" because no one would think it's out of bounds to tell Nazi sympathizers that we wished they were dead during WWII. That's bc we all agree the Holocaust was evil.

b4mytime Orange County, CA
08/02/15 2:18 pm

So whether or not you find that statement offensive just boils back down to whether or not you find abortion to be evil. There's no separate/new issue here.

(I'm not comparing Nazis to pro-choicers at all. Hope that was clear.)

bethanyq Ess Eff
08/02/15 2:29 pm

I think it's a fucked up thing to say to anyone, no matter the issue. In my mind, it's a fucked up thing to say to racists and neo-Nazis too. That said, I know that someone who says something like that is just lashing out because they aren't

bethanyq Ess Eff
08/02/15 2:29 pm

adequately equipped to deal with issues that make them emotional. That inability to deal with their emotions is far more troubling to me than the words they use to express themselves.

b4mytime Orange County, CA
08/03/15 2:40 am

If a hunter tells me, "I love shooting deer and watching them die and I don't care about your liberal animal rights bullshit," I can tell them, "Wow, I hope someone shoots you as callously so you know how the deer feels," and I wouldn't be ashamed.

b4mytime Orange County, CA
08/03/15 2:41 am

Sometimes it's not an emotional outburst as much as an actual talking point, to get the other person to put themselves in the victim's shoes and possibly see it in a new light. Depending on the context, it may have the reverse effect of course.

b4mytime Orange County, CA
08/03/15 2:43 am

Anyway I still don't think, in the context of life and death issues, that most people would condemn ALL such statements, even when directed at rapists, sex traffickers, etc. it's admirable if you really believe they're all equally condemnable.

b4mytime Orange County, CA
08/03/15 2:45 am

(btw I VERY VERY rarely actually say something like I hope they get treated the same as the animal...I'm much more likely to ask a question like, "What would you say if...")

bethanyq Ess Eff
08/03/15 6:04 am

I specifically go out of my way to say the opposite. I'll say "I sincerely hope you're never in a position where x," and I mean it. To me, it's wrong to wish harm on another, no matter the reasons, and I try to live by my own convictions.

b4mytime Orange County, CA
08/03/15 1:16 pm

That's great! I agree with you 100%. I'm the same way, but I cut myself/others some slack if we do happen to let our indignation get the best of us (IF it's over a sensitive issue about protecting another). Btw, it's nice to see you back on this app!

bethanyq Ess Eff
08/03/15 1:22 pm

Fair enough. I try to cut others slack as well, and lord knows I'm far from perfect myself.

Nice to see you too! Happy to be back :)

Dazey Beagles Rule
08/02/15 2:06 pm

Not forgiving someone says more about me than it does about them. Yes, I'd forgive. Even if they didn't ask for it.

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Mattwall1
08/02/15 2:07 pm

Even though they're essentially saying "I want you dead because we disagree"?

Dazey Beagles Rule
08/02/15 2:11 pm

Sure. If they continually repeated it over time I would lose interest in interacting with them, but I wouldn't hold a grudge. It would be harder to do if it was someone I believed cared about me.

Mattwall1
08/02/15 2:04 pm

Note: this question is based on a specific incident that occurred on SOH a while back (almost two years ago at this point). This is not intended to claim that all people that identify as pro life would say such a statement, or would agree with one.

MrsCrayonWax
08/02/15 2:07 pm

That response would make said pro lifer a hypocrite who values one form of person over another.

MrsCrayonWax
08/02/15 2:07 pm

And yes, I would forgive.