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thebarr
03/20/15 4:39 pm

Given that we say that a miscarriage occurs if implantation does not occur, then it seems like conception is the answer. But a pregnancy starting at implantation is an intriguing concept. Maybe there is something to that.

TheMadScientist the mad laboratory
03/20/15 9:59 am

By what lady bodies do, conception.

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MrMilkdud
03/20/15 10:23 am

I think the term you were looking for is "girl parts."

TheMadScientist the mad laboratory
03/20/15 1:05 pm

No. It's the whole body. I don't remember the specifics, but something is released that helps prevent the body from destroying the embryo. It can be detected in blood test on, I think, day two.

teachinla California
03/20/15 9:22 am

Life begins at conception. Pregnancy begins at implantation.

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fifeSymington Rose City
03/20/15 8:49 am

If it begins with conception, then 70+% of the human population was never born.

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MrMilkdud
03/20/15 10:23 am

I'm not sure why we'd change the definition just to be able to claim we have a lower prenatal mortality rate.

MrMilkdud
03/20/15 10:24 am

We could use the same logic to claim sea turtles don't become sea turtles until they reach the ocean. That way we wouldn't have to admit that +70% of sea turtles don't make it from their best to the ocean.

mikeey1962 on SOH where else
03/19/15 10:10 pm

it's already begun the process, before they implant it!

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
03/19/15 9:56 pm

Conception. At that moment, there is a human life growing within the woman's uterus, so she's pregnant.

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RJ1969 SoCal
03/19/15 10:07 pm

Does it have to be in a woman? Can there be a pregnancy outside of the woman?

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
03/19/15 10:42 pm

Yes. Only human women can be pregnant with human babies. Petri dishes don't get pregnant.

RJ1969 SoCal
03/19/15 8:27 pm

Doesn't IVF make the case that it's implantation?

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MrMilkdud
03/19/15 8:50 pm

No. I've just makes the case that we can circumvent the natural processes.

RJ1969 SoCal
03/19/15 9:02 pm

If eggs are fertilized in a dish, there isn't a pregnancy because attachment is a required part of pregnancy.

Most fertilizations do not implant and the zygote is discharged. Are all of those pregnancies then?

MrMilkdud
03/19/15 9:09 pm

Yes, pregnancies that end up in miscarriage.
bit.ly/1H6xdgQ

MrMilkdud
03/19/15 9:11 pm

If the egg is fertilized, and then lost, it is considered a miscarriage. It's estimated that up to 50% of pregnancies end before implantation.

RJ1969 SoCal
03/19/15 10:04 pm

So, fertilization = pregnancy? They are synonymous? There isn't anything that distinguishes the two words?

MrMilkdud
03/19/15 10:09 pm

Pregnancy begins with fertilization, I don't know why you'd say they're synonymous as fertilization is just one step in the process that is pregnancy.

Conception and fertilization, for all intents and purposes, are synonymous.

RJ1969 SoCal
03/19/15 10:12 pm

I agree with conception and fertilization being synonymous.

There are several definitions/descriptions in the medical dictionaries about pregnancy. I'm trying to figure out which one is most accurate.

RJ1969 SoCal
03/19/15 10:14 pm

I think pregnancy means the state of carrying a developing embryo. If it hasn't implanted, the embryo is not going to continue to develop.

MrMilkdud
03/19/15 10:15 pm

Conception was commonly accepted as the beginning of pregnancy until abortion enthusiasts started trying to delay the official starting as far as possible so as to avoid having to label certain drugs or procedures as abortifacient.

MrMilkdud
03/19/15 10:16 pm

This is evidenced by the fact that we take certain terms for granted-
For example, is an ectopic pregnancy a pregnancy?
Historically, the answer has been yes, and the loss of the pregnancy considered a miscarriage.
But by your standard, it is not.

MrMilkdud
03/19/15 10:17 pm

If you define pregnancy as implantation in the uterus, then an ectopic pregnancy is not a pregnancy.
But since the discovery of this condition, it has been accepted as a pregnancy.

RJ1969 SoCal
03/19/15 10:18 pm

Actually, I am wrong. Conception and fertilization are not synonymous. Conception is defined as the initial steps in the development of a child. But an egg can be fertilized with a sperm (or vice versa) that will develop to a point,

RJ1969 SoCal
03/19/15 10:18 pm

then cease with no potential child.

RJ1969 SoCal
03/19/15 10:20 pm

This is an interesting thought exercise.

RJ1969 SoCal
03/19/15 10:23 pm

As for ectopic pregnancy, my position that it has to implant is not limited to the uterus. The ectopic pregnancy is a type of pregnancy. We have found that females that have had their

RJ1969 SoCal
03/19/15 10:23 pm

uterus removed could still become pregnant when the fertilized egg attached to a blood vessel.

MrMilkdud
03/19/15 10:25 pm

Splitting hairs. Fertilization and conception happen at the same time, and are both defined by the sperm joining the egg. At that point, as evidenced by the documentary "look who's talking," the DNA combine and the now fertilized egg begins to glow.

RJ1969 SoCal
03/19/15 10:27 pm

Well I'm not really splitting hairs, because you are referring to the best case scenario and not all possible outcomes. There is a sizable percentage of instances where, following fertilization (and even implantation) there is zero

RJ1969 SoCal
03/19/15 10:28 pm

Possibility of the embryo developing to term ultimately to a child. I wouldn't call that conception. If there is zero potential then that's fertilization without conception.

MrMilkdud
03/19/15 10:28 pm

Also, for clarification, it's the blastocyst, not the embryo, that implants. The embryo is a later development.

MrMilkdud
03/19/15 10:29 pm

By that same logic, any pregnancy that spontaneously terminates is not a pregnancy because the baby didn't come to full term.

MrMilkdud
03/19/15 10:29 pm

No, conception occurs at fertilization. Non-viability of the fertilized egg does not mean conception did not occur.

RJ1969 SoCal
03/19/15 10:30 pm

Couples that struggle to conceive are not considers pregnant because they have successfully fertilized eggs. They conceive when pregnant and successfully developing to term.

RJ1969 SoCal
03/19/15 10:32 pm

Anyway, a fun thought question. It's late. Have a good one.

MrMilkdud
03/19/15 10:34 pm

Ok, that's a different tangent.
What you're getting at is that we don't have the ability to determine the moment of conception, so we
Measure the changes that occur after implantation, and therefore people mistake that as the beginning of pregnancy.

rebelfury76 No Justice, No Peace
03/20/15 4:15 am

Pregnancy as a process begins at conception for most women. However modern science is making it possible for some women to skip the first step and "begin" FOR THEM further down the line.

Not too complex of an issue.

SunsetLeopard Still writing my story
03/19/15 7:34 pm

Technically the weeks start at your last menstrual period. That's why if you think about it, you're "pregnant" for 10 months (40 weeks=10 months), but people say 9 because it's generally 2 weeks after your last period that you ovulate, which is when

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SunsetLeopard Still writing my story
03/19/15 7:35 pm

You conceive...and you are full term before the 40-week mark (37 weeks) so you are actually only truly pregnant for 9 months.

SunsetLeopard Still writing my story
03/19/15 7:37 pm

Oh but to answer the question...conception. (Assuming this is a natural pregnancy we are talking about not "medically-caused" pregnancies)

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
03/19/15 9:58 pm

Good stuff, Sunny!

SunsetLeopard Still writing my story
03/19/15 10:24 pm

Thank you :) needless to say I've spent many hours researching all things pregnancy/conceiving/babies/etc lol even before we got pregnant

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
03/20/15 2:06 am

That's why that thing in your other poll Q was a compliment to you. You're obviously a lover of the children, and you put parenthood in a good light! ❤️👶❤️

ThomasK
03/19/15 7:12 pm

Pregnancy =\= conception. It never has. How would you ever determine a woman is pregnant without implantation? Every pregnancy test ever requires implantation to test for pregnancy.

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MrMilkdud
03/19/15 7:18 pm

The majority of OBGYN's agree that pregnancy begins at conception.
Just because we can test for something at a particular point doesn't mean that's when it begins. That just means that's the point when it's currently detectable.

ThomasK
03/20/15 3:45 pm

Nope. Maybe "life" begins at conception, but pregnancy is literally the implantation of the fertilized egg in the uterine lining. Pregnancy is a testable medical condition. A floating embryo is not pregnancy, it is simply fertilization/conception.

MrMilkdud
03/20/15 4:04 pm

Yeah, I'm probably going to take the of the majority of OBGYNs over some guy on the Internet.

ThomasK
03/20/15 8:16 pm

This guy is an MD. I promise you no med school is teaching "pregnancy" is the same as conception.

MrMilkdud
03/20/15 8:19 pm

My wife is also an MD, as are the three OBGYNs who birthed our kids, and they all agree that pregnancy begins at conception.
Furthermore, if you look at the study I cited below, the majority of OBGYNS agree it begins with conception.

MrMilkdud
03/20/15 8:21 pm

And RJ1969 already tried the "pregnancy isn't synonymous with conception" line down below. No one is making that claim. Conception is one step in the process that is pregnancy.

MrMilkdud
03/20/15 8:27 pm

Also, if you are an md (and this is the Internet, so I'm an astronaut) I'm sure you used Stedman's at med school, right?

MrMilkdud
03/20/15 8:29 pm

Because stedman's defines pregnancy as beginning at conception, not implantation.
Which is odd, because you claimed that no med school would teach that.
But every med school uses stedman's.

ThomasK
03/20/15 8:32 pm

We did, not that a medical dictionary is a large teaching component in med school. But no, pregnancy is the implantation of the embryo and fusion between embryo and mother. There is no "pregnancy" at conception until implantation.

MrMilkdud
03/20/15 8:33 pm

Well, once again, thanks for your opinion. But I'm going to take the word of doctors I know in real life and the majority of OBGYNs over some guy on the Internet.

ThomasK
03/20/15 8:39 pm

Well congrats for believing whatever you want to believe. Still not right.

MrMilkdud
03/20/15 8:42 pm

I can't see how that differentiates us at all.

ThomasK
03/21/15 3:21 am

Name one OB that has told their patient she's pregnant before implantation has occurred.

MrMilkdud
03/21/15 6:33 am

Do you want the names of the three OBs who delivered my kids, George? Is that what you're asking for?
Your problem is that you're confusing what we can detect with what we know is happening without us being able to detect it.

MrMilkdud
03/21/15 6:35 am

We know that conception occurs, obviously, even though we don't have a simple test to determine the exact moment.
We have simple tests to detect when implantation has occurred.
But you're confusing what we can test for with when pregnancy begins.

MrMilkdud
03/21/15 6:36 am

That brings us back to my original response to your comment, which means we are now officially going around in circles.

MrMilkdud
03/21/15 6:37 am

The fact is, as evidenced by the article I posted and the attached study, this issue is up for debate. While the majority of OBGYNs agree with me, there are those who agree with you.
So let's leave it at that.

think4yourself Not a safe space
03/19/15 7:01 pm

Implanting your penis usually does not result in pregnancy so I'll say conception.

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MrMilkdud
03/19/15 7:08 pm

Your conclusion is correct,but I don't think you got there the right way.

iPolitix Political Party Animal
03/19/15 7:57 pm

💯You won all the Internets

Diogenes FreeMeBe
03/19/15 8:09 pm

Too funny!

FarmerManE djent
03/19/15 8:22 pm

Will ferrel just abdicated his throne in honor of think

Arkansas123 Neoconservative
03/19/15 6:36 pm

1. Conception is a process that begins with fertilization and ends with implantation.

2. Fertilizations can occur outside the female reproductive system, and those are not considered pregnancies.

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MrMilkdud
03/19/15 6:42 pm

You're talking about IVF. Those are a separate situation because the lab procedure replaces the natural process.
It would be as if I asked where digestion occurs and you declare it doesn't occur in the stomach because we can do that in a lab.

MrMilkdud
03/19/15 6:49 pm

And conception is not a process that begins with fertilization and ends with implantation.
Conception is the moment when the sperm fertilizes the egg and a new life is formed. Ar that point the fertilized egg goes on to implantation.

EarlyBird Portland
03/19/15 6:36 pm

I believe life begins when it's implanted in the uterus.

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MrMilkdud
03/19/15 6:38 pm

Scientifically speaking, the fertilized egg has already started differentiated cellular division and has become the blastocyst before it ever implants.
So it's definitely a distinct life with its own unique DNA before implantation.

MrMilkdud
03/19/15 6:40 pm

So the question can't be "does life begin at implantation," because the scientific community agrees 100% that the blastocyst is a separate life from the mother, and it is most definitely alive.

political Georgia
03/19/15 6:29 pm

There is a right answer.

Pregnancy - The period from conception to birth. After the egg is fertilized by a sperm and then implanted in the lining of the uterus, it develops into the placenta and embryo, and later into a fetus.

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political Georgia
03/19/15 6:30 pm

"[Citations Needed]"

Don't worry! I got you covered. medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Pregnancy

MrMilkdud
03/19/15 6:32 pm

Thank God you citedthatsource. I'd hate for people to not have a third party be able to verify your common sense comment.

MrMilkdud
03/19/15 6:33 pm

Oops. I'm sorry I mentioned God. I hope I didn't offend anyone.

MrMilkdud
03/19/15 6:33 pm

Oops, I did it again.

political Georgia
03/19/15 6:34 pm

In God we trust!

MrMilkdud
03/19/15 6:36 pm

Stop being so insensitive!

political Georgia
03/19/15 6:39 pm

Alright...I apologize. I should be aware of people's differences.

thebarr
03/20/15 4:44 pm

You know, what ever happened to citethesource? Shouldn't he be here yelling about bodily autonomy?

MrMilkdud
03/20/15 4:47 pm

He has me on ignore, which means he can't see my polls- therefore I am exempt from his nonsense.
It's the gift that keeps on giving.

thebarr
03/20/15 5:08 pm

I too am on that list, it seems. I think even a small refutation of one of his liberal rants is all that it takes.

MrMilkdud
03/20/15 6:08 pm

Yeah, he's one of the more intolerant people on the app.

MrMilkdud
03/20/15 6:08 pm

He can't stand being disagreed with. Once I finally got him to admit he was wrong, but he actually went to a different poll in a thread with just me and told me he agreed with me. Then, he denied doing so in the actual poll.

political Georgia
03/20/15 6:14 pm

"I gave up a long time ago on political when he bullied a gay kid."

-Citeyoursource

MrMilkdud
03/20/15 6:41 pm

Who did you bully that time?

political Georgia
03/20/15 6:54 pm

Username

political Georgia
03/20/15 6:54 pm

You know, the catholic Buddhist.

MrMilkdud
03/19/15 6:28 pm

For the record, most OBGYNs agree pregnancy starts at conception. Not too long ago, however, ACOG (american college of gynecology) controversially declared that it begins at implantation.

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MrMilkdud
03/19/15 6:31 pm

And this difference matters because it determines whether some drugs, like the PlanB drug must legally be called abortifacients.
Teva (the manufacturer) pushed for this new definition because it would allow the FDA to not label it an abortifacient.