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Mattwall1 March 18th, 2015 12:23am

Is being against the existence of Israel (not having some policy disagreements but out and out against the existence of Israel) anti Semitic?

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Penn555 Maine
03/18/15 11:17 am

I want Israel to exist, but I don't think it's fair that the land was just picked and given to us the way it was. The Palestinians deserve to be there, too. It'd be different if a war was fought over the land, but the way it happened isn't right, IMO

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
03/18/15 5:17 am

Not necessarily, but generally speaking being against its existence is motivated by anti-semitism. So the default would have to be Yes.

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HammeringMan Gods Away On Business
03/18/15 3:37 am

I believe Israel should exist, where it's located. But. The big but! Disagreement can easily be based on many "non anti-Semitic" reasons. Apology for the double negative.

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GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
03/18/15 9:02 pm

What other country in the world ever triggers this question? Should Spain exist? Should Iraq exist? Should Australia exist? Do you see what I mean?

HammeringMan Gods Away On Business
03/18/15 11:53 pm

I believe you know both my personal bias and strong belief in the rational behind the Zionist movement. That does not negate my listening to the argent a on both sides.

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
03/19/15 4:54 am

I see what you are saying.

No, I didn't remember your views. I see comments by so many people on this app. I can't always remember who says what. 😄

I also try hard to hear out all sides, but with the caveat that Israel should exist.

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
03/19/15 4:57 am

Arguments about how best to achieve peace, how to treat all people fairly, borders, etc. are open for discussion. Existence is a different story.

That's where I go back to my opening comment. What other country has to argue to the world that it ...

Mattwall1
03/19/15 8:25 am

Alice, the only ones I can think.of.are the likes of.kosovo and other countries (or "countries") with high dispute status

HammeringMan Gods Away On Business
03/19/15 9:32 am

Which countries are seeking validation at the UN Level? Border arguments at Kashmir? Pakistan construction? Those questions and many more, like Israel's, can exist outside of racism.

skinner Jersey City
03/18/15 2:58 am

If one agrees with the premise set in your last Israel poll, then yes.

professorwho Madness and Genius
03/17/15 9:24 pm

Anti-semitism is being against Jews. Even though Israel is a Jewish state, hating it is basically hating the country, not Jewish people themselves. And let's be honest, Israel is pretty dickish anyway.

GubraLagima Tramp 2016
03/17/15 8:01 pm

People don't know what anti-Semitism is. For fuck's sake, there are Jews that are against the existence of Israel.

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4boot LaTrineodeur, MN
03/17/15 10:25 pm

Why is it that the existence of Israel seems to somehow be a special case, quite unlike the existence of Ireland, the US, or Britain? IMO, making it a special case is nothing less than racist and anti-Semitic...

GubraLagima Tramp 2016
03/18/15 3:26 am

It's a special case because Israel was built on top of Palestine. With Ireland, the Irish already lived there, and they were by far the majority in Ireland. It's not even close to the same thing. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out

NDAmerican Florida
03/18/15 9:59 am

To be fair, archeology proves Israelis were there far before the vast majority of Palestinians.

GubraLagima Tramp 2016
03/18/15 10:10 am

Those were Israelites. Modern Israelis are almost entirely of European ancestry, with no ethnic connection.

GubraLagima Tramp 2016
03/18/15 10:11 am

Also, by that logic, my people should be able to claim Bornholm as a nation because we used to live there, but now it's owned by Denmark

Rotavele Alabama
03/18/15 10:36 am

To run in Israelis election you have to agree and swear israel is THE Jewish state.

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
03/18/15 9:05 pm

Rota, I'm going to call bs on that claim. I challenge you to find a link.

4boot LaTrineodeur, MN
03/18/15 9:40 pm

Gubra, by that logic the US also has no right to exist...built on Native American land. You're just rationalizing your hatred of Israel. WWII and the Holocaust alone gave Israel the right to exist, not to mention their previous historical claims...

GubraLagima Tramp 2016
03/19/15 3:50 am

Then does a gypsy state have a right to exist because of the holocaust? What about a communist state? A homosexual state? America doesn't have a right to exist, but anyone who cared about that is dead now, which is what Israel is trying to replicate.

4boot LaTrineodeur, MN
03/17/15 7:28 pm

I've got nothing against the Irish, but Ireland has no right to exist. Same difference...

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4boot LaTrineodeur, MN
03/17/15 6:55 pm

How can it be anything but anti Semitic...?

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jvc1133 61535
03/17/15 6:46 pm

Pretty Much

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Ebola1 Florida
03/17/15 6:44 pm

Yes, definitely.

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Liberty 4,032,064
03/17/15 6:42 pm

Quite literally.

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Zod Above Pugetropolis
03/17/15 6:12 pm

Ethnicity, religion, political state. Three separate things.

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rbrown Kansas
03/17/15 6:17 pm

Except in Israel.

Zod Above Pugetropolis
03/17/15 6:37 pm

The third thing that has some of the first two things in it. Still separate. There are a lot more of at least the second thing (and probably the first thing too) here in the US than there are in the third thing.

Mattwall1
03/17/15 7:15 pm

Actually, when the two are combined (as they should be for basic statistical purposes), it's about even between the U.S. and Israel, with some estimates saying the U.S. has a few hundred thousand more, but I wouldn't call that a lot more given the

Mattwall1
03/17/15 7:15 pm

Amount of people in existence.

Mattwall1
03/17/15 7:17 pm

In all fairness, historically, both of the first two have been tied, both by Jews and by non Jews, anti Semites and not. But anti Semites don't care about distinctions like that. Frankly, I wouldn't be shocked if mid eastern anti Semites considered

Mattwall1
03/17/15 7:18 pm

Israeli arab citizens to be traitors in some level. They certainly wouldn't give a damn about ethnic vs religious jew. Then again, who gives a damn about Jews anymore except Jews, hardline christians whose reasons are more theological than anything

Mattwall1
03/17/15 7:19 pm

Else, and a small chunk of people that aren't in either group. In all honesty, even the U.S. is looking less and less
safe in the long run.

Mattwall1
03/17/15 7:24 pm

And whatever can be said about how Israel was founded, what do you want to do about it since I know you've said you aren't in favor of Israel having been created? Let all Israeli Jews be killed off? Forcibly moved off?

Zod Above Pugetropolis
03/17/15 8:21 pm

I do think it was a horrible mistake to create Israel, especially where it was created. I don't think you can undo that without creating even more chaos, but I do think the old borders can be restored, with some adjustments, and a Palestinian...

Zod Above Pugetropolis
03/17/15 8:26 pm

...state could be created and both sides could be protected by an international, non-aligned force, probably for a generation or more. That it sounds like a crappy "solution" speaks to how crappy a "solution" creating...

Zod Above Pugetropolis
03/17/15 8:27 pm

...Israel was in the first place. There may not be a good solution, but something needs to be done, and that something needs to provide fairly for all of the people in the region, not just Israel. And I think you're wrong about the numbers.

Mattwall1
03/17/15 8:36 pm

While personally, I think a two state solution is the only possible (quite remotely such, but still) and plausible (again, quite remotely, but still) scenario. However, I'm using census data. I'm sorry you think census data is wrong, whatever reason

Mattwall1
03/17/15 8:37 pm

You may have for thinking it is

Zod Above Pugetropolis
03/17/15 8:57 pm

I think because I was using the most recent data I could find that didn't claim to be an estimate. The numbers swing by 15% in the same year depending on which (probably wrong) estimate I pick. I'll concede your data is at least as good as mine.

MrMilkdud
03/17/15 5:46 pm

Yes, because eliminating Israel means the deaths of a lot of jews. "Death to jews" is generally regarded as an antisemetic slogan.
If you don't believe me, just ask the people holding those kinds of signs.

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GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
03/17/15 8:13 pm

👍👍👍👍👍

Mattwall1
03/17/15 8:53 pm

No fucking kidding. I'll be the first to admit I don't like Likud or Bibi. But that's over policy, not the belief that Israel has every right to exist. The problem is now anti Israelism has almost become a cause célèbre among some millennials (and

Mattwall1
03/17/15 8:56 pm

Arguably, a shocking amount of SOHers.) On a more general note about anti Semitism, it's honestly nearing the point for me that I don't know if I should be shocked when I see the level of anti Semitism, or if I should be shocked it isn't higher.

Mattwall1
03/17/15 8:56 pm

And I'll be bluntly honest-that scares the hell out of me

Brandon1995 San Francisco
03/17/15 5:39 pm

Anti-semitic is a stupid term. Jews aren't the only semitic people. Most jews(ashkenazis) aren't even semitic. Palestinians and Arabs are the real semites.

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Brandon1995 San Francisco
03/17/15 5:41 pm

And to answer your question, No! Being against Israel isn't anti-jewish.

political Georgia
03/17/15 5:31 pm

I'm a vey strong supporter of Israel. Let me create you a visual.

Jenna⬅️⬅️⬅️⬅️➡️➡️➡️➡️Me

With that being said, I can't inherently go that far.

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