Show of HandsShow of Hands

DerekWills November 12th, 2014 12:02am

Your 12 year old son approaches you and says he wants to join the Masonic youth organization, DeMolay International. Do you let him?

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HammeringMan Gods Away On Business
11/12/14 1:14 am

I think the leadership would be influential and the rites of passage could be the maturity milestones frequently missing in Western Culture.

abehm09
11/11/14 11:18 pm

Anyone ever see the outlines of Masonry? Loyalty mindfucks them into doing evil things or turning a cheek when they see or hear secret ("mystery") subjects discussed.

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mac007 Mars
11/11/14 10:41 pm

My child would have no interest in joining such a group.

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elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
11/11/14 10:19 pm

My grandfather was 32nd degree Mason. Grandma was Eastern Star. I was in Job's Daughters for a few years. No. I absolutely positively would not permit any of my minor children to participate in any form of Masons or any other organization w/secrets.

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elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
11/11/14 11:59 pm

Esoteric secrets & covert rituals are antithetical to concepts of virtue, integrity, guileless. One does well to be suspicious of declarations of honor requiring surreptitious practices & clandestine codes. Truth is offered freely in light of day.

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
11/12/14 12:00 am

In my experience.

JennaF sunflower state of mind
11/12/14 12:11 am

That's true, I agree completely.

2katz I live in Nebraska
11/12/14 2:07 am

Well stated, Elainastar!! I was also in Job's Daughters. I thought the "spiritual" aspect was bizarre and meaningless, and the secret aspect plain silly. That promotes a sense of superiority without any reason.

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/12/14 8:12 am

Then you ought not let your children play any sport, join any club, work for any business, or have any friends.... All of which have secrets, be they secret plays, trade secrets, or whether Joey likes Cassie....

elianastar Gab.ai FreeSpeech
11/12/14 1:06 pm

Okay then. I'll lock my kids in a closet & protect them from the non-esoteric ritual secrets of business, sports & entertainment. (Matching the hyperbolic exaggeration of that reply.)

FacePalm That Trick Never Works
11/11/14 10:09 pm

I would want to learn more about it, we would definitely discuss it at length. As long as we established open communication, and I did not find other things objectionable ...

MorKurt Oregon
11/11/14 10:03 pm

Anyone care to explain what that is XD

GubraLagima Tramp 2016
11/11/14 9:20 pm

No, that sounds like work for me. They can join their cult bullshit when they're old enough to drive themselves to the circle jerk carnivals or whatever the fuck goes on in there.

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GrumpyFace
11/11/14 8:48 pm

I would.u I think it's awesome just as my daughter grows at the age of 11 she will join I.o.r.g (daughters of the Masonic lodge) I grew up it just as I am an eastern star member.

2katz I live in Nebraska
11/12/14 2:09 am

What if she has no interest or doesn't want to

GrumpyFace
11/12/14 6:30 am

Derek yes. Lol just as my father's before me were masons and mothers before me were oes.

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/12/14 6:32 am

That's wonderful! Daisy doesn't want to join OES because she says it sounds like something from Harry Potter. Haha!

GrumpyFace
11/12/14 6:32 am

2katz. I will do as my mother done for me. put her into the I.O.R.G (daughters of the Masonic lodge) and if she chooses after being in it that it is not for her then I respect her

GrumpyFace
11/12/14 6:32 am

and will not make her. it's her choice

GrumpyFace
11/12/14 6:33 am

it's not at all. I love it. =)

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/12/14 6:34 am

I know that! I would also like my future daughter to be a Rainbow Girl! They're a great group as well!

GrumpyFace
11/12/14 6:40 am

Derek you're are one of the only people that knows what a rainbow girl is! that's awesome. were you a demolay growing up?

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/12/14 6:44 am

No, I didn't have the pleasure of being a DeMolay. I thought all Masonic bodies required an invitation. It wasn't until late 2010 when I realized that I had to ask. I was made a Master Mason on 4/28/11. One of the best decisions I ever made. :-)

GrumpyFace
11/12/14 6:52 am

Derek that is awesome =)

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/12/14 6:54 am

I think it's awesome that you're OES! :-)

GrumpyFace
11/12/14 6:57 am

in our next good oil days (community service project from our chapter open to the Masonic lodge and public) you and Daisy will have to come, maybe we can get her to see some of the benefits from it and get her interested in being an OES =)

Tariq88 Utah
11/11/14 6:47 pm

It all depends on where you stand, the response would vary depending on the individual. Masons or people who are familiar with masonry would probably not have a problem with it. Otherwise you would want look into it before making a decision.

mc88 Cleveland OSU
11/11/14 6:47 pm

Jeez Derek, I just saw the hate certain users were spewing below. I'm sorry some people can be so intolerant.

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 6:56 pm

I'm used to it.... Most of the time I find it hilarious... I've had someone see my ring and call me a Satan worshipper.

mc88 Cleveland OSU
11/11/14 6:58 pm

Lol I can see how it can be funny

Injectable Mojave Mo Problems
11/11/14 6:34 pm

I knew a couple of retards in DeMolay. I also know that I like scouts. As long as I participated I wouldnt care because I would know what was going on.

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 6:45 pm

Well that's just slightly uncalled for.

aj1545 Cat Lady
11/11/14 6:20 pm

No , I wouldn't let my kid join something that actively perpetuates gender inequality. Plus it sounds a bit cult like.

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DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 6:27 pm

Would you let your son join a college fraternity? Would you let your daughter join a college sorority?

droo Santa Barbara
11/11/14 6:32 pm

The reason fraternities and sororities are gender-exclusive is because their members live together. Do you live with your fellow Masons?

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 6:41 pm

Fraternities and Sororities are not about living together. There are dorms for that without Sigma Delta Pi above their door. They build a brotherhood and sisterhood with their members. That's all Freemasonry is. Except it's a fraternity.

aj1545 Cat Lady
11/11/14 7:17 pm

No, Droo is right. That, and fraternities were around before colleges included women. They have their roots in being exclusionary and also disproportionately represent perpetrators of sexual violence on college campuses. I wouldn't want my child to

aj1545 Cat Lady
11/11/14 7:19 pm

Participate in an organization like that. There isn't really a good reason I see to stay gender exclusive anyway. I've had at least some male roommates for quite some time now, it's pretty uneventful. If it was organized around good values rather

aj1545 Cat Lady
11/11/14 7:21 pm

Than sex and sexist (sometimes very harmful) traditions like baiting women with alcohol to persuade them to have sex or hazing if their own members. I think it could be a could thing if they dropped their cultishness and these problems.

aj1545 Cat Lady
11/11/14 7:27 pm

It'd depend on the particular sorority or fraternity for me I guess. I don't really support how Freemasons view women, it's insulting. I know not all organizations are like that though.

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 8:06 pm

And how do we "view women." Please enlighten me...

aj1545 Cat Lady
11/11/14 8:28 pm

As not suitable to know what goes on within the establishment fully for no reason other than their sex. If this is wrong, correct me. How do you view women?

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 8:37 pm

Ummm... No one who's not a Mason can see what happens in our meetings. This includes men. Only men can be Masons because it's a Brotherhood... I fail to see how you don't get that.

aj1545 Cat Lady
11/11/14 9:20 pm

So it is only men? My opinion stands.

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/12/14 5:07 am

Well that's stupid. So you wouldn't let your son join the Boy Scouts either?

aj1545 Cat Lady
11/12/14 6:36 am

I don't see a need for scouts to be divided by gender either, but it bothers be less as they're young kids and scouts are pretty similar for both sexes. I wouldn't be kept in the dark about what exactly goes on for Boy Scouts either, so I'd let him.

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/12/14 6:38 am

We have Job's Daughters and International Order of the Rainbow for Girls for girls 12-21. And we have the Order of the Easter Star for women 21+. I fail to see where your concern is. It seems much ado about nothing.

aj1545 Cat Lady
11/12/14 7:07 am

The fact that you have a completely seperate organization for women and the women can't know what goes on in the main organization are concerning. It's not nothing to me. I can't take an organization seriously that views sex the way you do.

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/12/14 7:10 am

You're ridiculous. Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. Freemasonry and Eastern Star. It's no damn different. I don't "view" sex in whatever way you think I do. You just want something to bitch about. I've invested too much time trying to enlighten you, all

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/12/14 7:12 am

of which was wasted on your closed, permanently offended mind. I personally don't care what you would do in this hypothetical. I'll enjoy calling out your hypocrisy in the future.

aj1545 Cat Lady
11/12/14 7:25 am

Wow, someone's defensive. Not everyone worships your organization, get over it. And I'm the offended one lmao

aj1545 Cat Lady
11/12/14 7:28 am

I only somewhat disliked freemasonry before (Boy Scouts doesn't keep secrets from women, the difference), but now I really dislike it. You seem very elitist and quick to jump into insulting anyone who doesn't agree with you. Why have these polls if

aj1545 Cat Lady
11/12/14 7:29 am

You only want one opinion? I think it's pathetic you plan to follow me around looking for hypocrisy too.

brenstal Florida
11/11/14 6:18 pm

Sure. He's twelve, so he can choose to join them if he wants.

Spartacus AUSTIN
11/11/14 6:15 pm

As a non practicing Mason, I know that they require a belief in a supreme being and as an atheist, I'm not going to let anyone tell my children that they have to believe in that.

Spartacus AUSTIN
11/11/14 6:09 pm

No. I'm not going to let an outside source indoctrinate my child.

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DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 6:11 pm

What makes you think it's indoctrination?

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 6:19 pm

How did you become a Mason if you're an atheist? Did you lie?

Spartacus AUSTIN
11/11/14 6:26 pm

I was not always an atheist.

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 6:46 pm

Well I'm sorry to hear of your lost faith.

Spartacus AUSTIN
11/11/14 7:01 pm

It's alright, I'm much happier without the threat of some hell looming over me.

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 7:02 pm

The threat of Hell? Hell is not a threat for me and it shouldn't be for any believer.

Spartacus AUSTIN
11/11/14 7:04 pm

Yeah well I don't buy the whole reward/punishment dogma.

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 7:11 pm

I don't have to believe in a reward/punishment dogma to believe in Heaven and Hell. I believe in God and while I may be a sinner, I repent and am forgiven.

Spartacus AUSTIN
11/11/14 7:22 pm

Whatever.

Iamamerican California
11/11/14 6:08 pm

My husband was involved when he was a teen and went on to become a Mason. He really enjoyed it and it is an excellent group.

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AbandonedAccnt Not here.
11/11/14 6:03 pm

No. I don't believe in it. We already have church for this purpose. I don't oppose masonry though, in general. I know one very well and he's a very good man.

droo Santa Barbara
11/11/14 5:55 pm

Geez, sounds like a cult the way you talk about it below.

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Cole12 ...
11/11/14 5:42 pm

Why not? I read a little about the organization, and it seems alright.

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 5:43 pm

Because DeMolay instills great morals into its members. It is a wonderful organization. Why would you not?

JennaF sunflower state of mind
11/11/14 5:46 pm

What exactly is full-fledged Freemasonry about?

JennaF sunflower state of mind
11/11/14 5:50 pm

Is it true that as a woman I could never really know what was going on?

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 5:51 pm

Freemasons have a saying. We make good men great, but we can't make a bad man good. Great men throughout history have been Freemasons including several of our Founding Fathers. We do a lot for our communities.

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 5:52 pm

Yes it's true, but we do have the Order of the Eastern Star which allows women and does the same sorts of things.

JennaF sunflower state of mind
11/11/14 5:55 pm

Well I wouldn't want my kid involved in an organization that I couldn't know anything about because of my gender.

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 5:58 pm

You can know what they're about, you just can't attend their meetings or rituals. It's a fraternity, not a sorority. That's a pretty petty reason to not let your son join....

JennaF sunflower state of mind
11/11/14 6:04 pm

No it's not. Why would I involve my 12 year old son in a secret cult that I know nothing about but broad statements *they* issue? How do I know they really teach "great morals?" My morals might be very different from theirs. I don't know what

JennaF sunflower state of mind
11/11/14 6:05 pm

What kind of influence they'll have on him.

JennaF sunflower state of mind
11/11/14 6:07 pm

I'll raise my son myself. I don't need a secret society to do that for me :)

droo Santa Barbara
11/11/14 6:07 pm

Especially since they perform "rituals" and won't tell parents what goes on in those rituals.

Hey, I'm Charles Manson! My followers and I are super moral and are interested in bringing about God's will. We also perform rituals. Can't tell you what

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 6:07 pm

Wow. That's a hateful statement.

droo Santa Barbara
11/11/14 6:08 pm

the rituals consist of, though. But you should totally let your kids join! It's a good cause! I said so!

JennaF sunflower state of mind
11/11/14 6:10 pm

It's not hateful. It's simply a fact that us non-Masons can know next to nothing about Freemasonry. I doubt you'd let your kid be involved in it if you weren't already involved and familiar with said rituals and morals.

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 6:11 pm

Why don't you try talking to some Masons, Eastern Stars, or Senior DeMolay's before you go calling it a cult and spouting hateful rhetoric about a wonderful organization?

JennaF sunflower state of mind
11/11/14 6:12 pm

Sorry if I seemed hateful. That was not my intention. Would you mind telling me a little more about the organization?

droo Santa Barbara
11/11/14 6:12 pm

As a parent, I wouldn't talk to a member of a secret organization which performs secret rituals and also wants my son to join, and say "Oh, he seems like a nice guy. What the heck? Go on, son!" If that's how you parent, I'm genuinely scared.

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 6:26 pm

It teaches leadership skills and character building through brotherhood, charity, and community service. They have a long list of notable alumni including John Wayne, Walt Disney, Paul Harvey, and many others.

JennaF sunflower state of mind
11/11/14 6:29 pm

So how is it any different from Boy Scouts?

droo Santa Barbara
11/11/14 6:30 pm

If that's all you guys do, there shouldn't be anything to hide.

JennaF sunflower state of mind
11/11/14 6:32 pm

What I don't understand is why they have to be so secretive if they're as purely benevolent as you say.

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 6:33 pm

Ultimately the goal is the same. It's the method by which they learn that is different.

Rotavele Alabama
11/11/14 6:34 pm

Do they let gay people in? There's a chapter up the road from me and I always wondered what goes on there.

Cole12 ...
11/11/14 6:37 pm

And what method is that?

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 6:37 pm

It's about honor. Masonic secrets are not about some occult knowledge that we keep from the world. It's about being entrusted with something sacred. I know that I can confide in a Brother about anything even if I've never met him before.

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 6:38 pm

We don't care if someone's gay. Just that they're a man of lawful age that declares a belief in a Creator. We don't define who that Creator is. It can be the Flying Spaghetti Monster for all we care.

Rotavele Alabama
11/11/14 6:40 pm

Do you let people go for just a few sessions? Also the major chapter in the city seems to be invite only but this small chapter I've never met anyone in. Do you just go say something one day or something? I don't mean to be ignorant but I'm curious

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 6:43 pm

We don't ask who your God is drooski, so if you want to worship Lucifer, by all means. Hell, if you believe the crap on the Internet, Freemasons worship Satan anyway.

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 6:45 pm

Rotavele, no Masonic Lodge invites members. A man must seek out Masonry for himself. You can't attend meetings unless you are a Mason and even then you may only attend meetings of your Degree.

Rotavele Alabama
11/11/14 6:45 pm

Ok final question. I've heard about the representation of an umbilical cord and hopefully this isn't just a rumor but just incase its a secret is that true? I heard its to keep silence?

Rotavele Alabama
11/11/14 6:46 pm

I don't know if it's a secret or if the what it actually is, is a secret but this is a very small town chapter so I'm afraid to go with that there since I'm probably not going to be welcomed very well at first.

Rotavele Alabama
11/11/14 6:50 pm

I can't force myself to think of anything so it may be a lost cause. Maybe I can think of a personification of the Big Bang. If it's all about honesty and truth then I do not want to lie.

omniku dot com
11/11/14 6:52 pm

This is an awesome conversation. I'm replying primarily so I can track it through My Comments. I'll go back to lurking now, but you guys know all the secrecy is because they're like Anglo Kabbalist Illuminati who control the world right?

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 6:52 pm

I won't answer any questions regarding our rituals. Don't take that as being an affirmation of your suspicions. I would say the same thing if you asked "is it true you get decapitated an Satan restores your head in the 2nd Degree?" And I would highly

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 6:54 pm

Recommend honesty. If you don't believe in God, then don't petition to join the Lodge. No atheist may become a Mason. If you are trying to personify the Big Bang, then I can't see that as being an honest answer to believing in God.

Rotavele Alabama
11/11/14 6:56 pm

Well you said creator before. I believe heavily in a lot of religions that rely on energy and such and have symbolic gods for them.

Is it a god or a creator?

Rotavele Alabama
11/11/14 6:58 pm

I have an uncle that is in the 50 degrees (if I remember correctly, not sure if that's good or bad) but I know that it's really good to go further and do well. Plus it has a lot of benefits that you can pass on to lodge mates if I remember right.

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 7:00 pm

Sorry if I wasn't clear before. By "Creator" I mean more specifically a Supreme Being which would be God. We just don't define which God. So if your heart truly believes that WaluWalu created the earth by farting through his ears 3000 years ago...

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 7:04 pm

Doesn't Wicca believe that energy from nature creates all life? Or something like that? I don't know... This seems to be pushing a gray area...

Rotavele Alabama
11/11/14 7:06 pm

No. You choose between several ways. Most use roman or Egyptian gods to represent the energy. Isis for example is love.

Rotavele Alabama
11/11/14 7:09 pm

They also think if you use certain herbs or plants that symbolically support what it is you need or want you should do a spell. The spell is just your way of attracting the energy and use the law of attraction to bring whatever it is you need or want

Rotavele Alabama
11/11/14 7:11 pm

And if it works well for you (burning a green candle for money or something like that) and such you write it down and use it again.

Tariq88 Utah
11/11/14 7:14 pm

I have nothing against masons and respect their beliefs and I assume they have good intentions, but if it conflicts with my beliefs it conflicts with beliefs and do not agree with it for myself. Nothing more nothing less.

Rotavele Alabama
11/11/14 7:16 pm

The Demolay group is the big chapter in the city. Maybe it's not invite only and that was only a rumor. The guy also lives not far from me. There's a really small lodge in a town next to me but idk what group they're in.

trepidhickory Ayy Lmao
11/11/14 5:34 pm

I'd have to look into the organization and so until I obtain information it would be a no

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TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
11/11/14 5:28 pm

Not if his dad hasn't been invited to be a Mason. We're a package deal.

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DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/11/14 5:41 pm

No man can be invited to be a Mason. A man must ask to become a Mason.

Rotavele Alabama
11/11/14 7:12 pm

TLaney why aren't you a mason?

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
11/11/14 11:07 pm

Derek, I meant it's no wonder I've never been invited.

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
11/11/14 11:08 pm

Rota - I was waiting to be invited.

Rotavele Alabama
11/11/14 11:10 pm

ME TOO. Lol. I think everyone is.

2katz I live in Nebraska
11/12/14 2:35 am

Tom, I'm guessing you'd not like the spiritual aspects. In Job's Daughters, it involved a select, elected small group of officers who recited the mystical meanings, numbers and symbols of their "stations" (where each was seated in the center of...

2katz I live in Nebraska
11/12/14 2:40 am

... of a large room. They walked around the room in particular patterns during the meeting while the rest of us merely observed. Election of the princesses, who moved up to eventually become the Honored Queen, was just another popularity contest....

2katz I live in Nebraska
11/12/14 2:44 am

... I was bored by it; never thought it had any useful meaning. I hated the long white cotton robes with purple cords we had to wear. The officers and royalty had white satin robes which were much nicer. I don't recall any community service we did.

2katz I live in Nebraska
11/12/14 2:47 am

... I hope I'm not going to be abducted and never heard from again by one of the "messengers" in the ritual story (somewhat related to the story of Job) for describing this. We had to agree to secrecy but I never saw the point.

Rotavele Alabama
11/12/14 3:32 am

:/ it's because they trusted you. It's all about trust and stuff.

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/12/14 5:09 am

Katz, you obviously completely missed the point of Job's Daughters.

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
11/12/14 9:30 am

Derek, I've considered it in the past, but frankly, now that I'm disabled and mostly homebound, I think the time has definitely passed. I haven't been able to even drive for almost seven years with my legal blindness.

DerekWills Lone Star Gun Rights
11/12/14 9:31 am

Well if you change your mind, let me know! :-)

2katz I live in Nebraska
11/12/14 6:51 pm

Derek, then go ahead and enlighten me as to what the point is. Maybe our small town local bethel just failed to convey it. I really did try to get something but it just wasn't there for me.

TomLaney1 Jesus is Lord
11/12/14 9:54 pm

Thanks, my friend. I just can't see asking my wife to have to drive me to all the meetings, and I'm not sure the Temple is ADA accessible, since it's old. My Grandfather was a Mason, though, and I remember when he died , Mom had to burn his stuff.

Cole12 ...
11/11/14 5:08 pm

I guess.

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