Show of HandsShow of Hands

Show Of Hands November 1st, 2014 2:14pm

Do you think the existence of the death penalty deters any murders from occurring?

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11/07/14 11:35 am

it's proven that there are no repeat offenders.

11/04/14 10:53 pm

not really. Murderers usually accept whatever they have coming to them, including the place to stay and food to eat for the next 20-30 years before their execution.

adeon777 Plano Texas
11/06/14 7:20 am

most murders are cowards at heart. why do you think they fight the DP so hard. Also what about the repeated attacks and murders they commit while locked up.

11/04/14 7:04 pm

i would rather have them suffer in regrets by leaving them in jail with a lack of food and water, with no entertainment

impetus ok who knows the way out
11/04/14 8:48 am

Reason 1 why it does not deter is that it is so very seldom used.
Reason 2 is that it takes so long for appeals to occur
Reason 3 is it is very possible to get off
Reason 4 acts of passion usually fuel the act and logic went out the window

11/03/14 10:18 am

I believe that if people really want to kill, they are going to find a way to do it, regardless of the law.

11/03/14 4:22 am

I also believe the death penalty as it is applied today (randomly) is ineffectual as well as most killers kill on the spur of the moment w/o thinking or those planning crimes that result in death believe that they will not be caught so no problem.

11/03/14 4:17 am

I feel being in jail for the rest of your life is worse than death as it is a terrible thing to be w/o the freedom to eat as you please or wear the clothes you want or go where you want. Being confined to an 8x10 room for the rest of ur life...bad!

elianastar FreeSpeech
11/03/14 12:43 am

No. The *application* of the death penalty, however, does ensure the murderer cannot do it again.

sd123 San Diego
11/02/14 8:12 pm

I think so, people know that there is a justice system they may potentially face and a death penalty, that must keep people from killing. If we lived in anarchy there wouldn't be that thought of going to court or prison in people's mind.

thebob Medford Oregon
11/02/14 2:19 pm

Deterrent is not the goal.

cowboy Doors of Perception
11/02/14 9:26 am

Not when lawyers and courts can fuck with the victim's feelings for 30 years. Then watch the animal fall alder in a basement somewhere.

11/02/14 7:58 am

Not when it takes 40 years to kill them

purplemonkey New York
11/02/14 5:30 am

it doesn't matter if it deters...some people should not be walking the streets ever ever again

ladyniner81 I need chocolate
11/02/14 11:02 am

there are some people who are so evil/mentally unstable (Charles Manson) who shouldn't be breathing air

rich1010 Stem Cell Harvesting
11/02/14 1:46 am

Not the first time but it certainly keeps them from doing it twice.

11/02/14 1:20 am

at least prevents murderers given the death penalty from murdering again and makes it impossible for politicians from turning loose to murder again. Also, there are some murders that are so heinous that even the death penalty is too good for them.

11/02/14 12:56 am

My societally-conditioned political correctness had me thinking thinking no at first; but after thinking about it for a minute.....People would constantly be murdering each other if there was no law against it are you kidding me?

SpecialAgent3D lake mills, wi
11/02/14 12:29 am

I voted no, however I know for me personally it does. Who knows how we would behave if we could kill with impunity. Just saying.

Brandon1995 San Francisco
11/01/14 11:15 pm

Nope! That barbaric practice should be abolished immediately! State-sanctioned murder is still murder.

11/01/14 11:27 pm

Oh liberal

Brandon1995 San Francisco
11/01/14 11:31 pm

Oh Texas. You guys need to leave the dark ages.

weallhave1 Tennessee
11/02/14 4:23 am

Murder is the unlawful killing of someone. Don't try to change the definition.

Henry123 Connecticut
11/02/14 9:07 am

It's not murder it's justice. How can you even say that after some of the stuff people do they deserve to live?! You give up that right when you take it from someone else

Brandon1995 San Francisco
11/02/14 10:26 am

@Henry, killing them will not make us any better than them. Life is a basic human right, and you have no right to take it away.

Henry123 Connecticut
11/02/14 10:32 am

I'm not trying to make us better. They lost their rights when they take it away from someone else. A murderer does not deserve to live out the rest of his life with 3 square meals a day and a bed

Brandon1995 San Francisco
11/02/14 10:49 am

You want to punish killing, with more killing. That's a barbaric way to think. In my opinion, life is prison is worser. Killing them will only take the easy way out.

ladyniner81 I need chocolate
11/02/14 11:00 am

You're saying no problem, you can sit in jail even though you tortured your wife for 16 hours, beat her, burned her cut her raped her, sodomized her an d then stab her and slowly killher, and let him rot in prison? (hypothetical) no.

IsleOfCannon Salt Lake City, UT
11/01/14 10:59 pm

I would say anyone who is willing to take a human life outside of combat or self defense is probably insane.. So no.

Ernest Make it so
11/01/14 9:52 pm

I would say the way we implant capital punishment has become very ineffective. It might help if we actually carry out the sentenc.

htcbump Florida
11/01/14 9:45 pm

It deters in the sense that those that receive this punishment won't be doing it again. It also has a preventative effect though not huge.

MrWalrus Undergrid
11/01/14 9:06 pm

Not the existence of but if we were to actually enforce it...

EarthMunkey The Golden Rule. Always.
11/01/14 8:55 pm

A criminal no.

A husband considering killing his cheating wife...sure.

The death penalty is less of a burden on tax payers too.

EarthMunkey The Golden Rule. Always.
11/01/14 9:01 pm

Too those who will say that the death sentence costs more are referring to everything except the death of the criminal. The sentence should be carried out that night. Bullet, rope, axe, whatever is that states preferred cheap method.

EarthMunkey The Golden Rule. Always.
11/01/14 9:02 pm

The death penalty should include a quick death, very soon after the trail and in a painless manner.

Henry123 Connecticut
11/02/14 9:09 am

The problem is that you execute more innocents that way. I still think there should be time for an appeal. But not this 30 years bullshit. A year is enough for anyone to plead their case

jsmooseman You started it.
11/01/14 8:42 pm

It's not a deterrent. Some people just don't deserve to live.

Brandon1995 San Francisco
11/01/14 11:17 pm

YOU don't get to decide who "deserves to live".

weallhave1 Tennessee
11/02/14 4:25 am

Brandon, what about abortion?

jsmooseman You started it.
11/02/14 5:53 am

Rapists, pedophiles, and some wife beaters, along with a few murderers

ThinkAboutIt Staten Island, NY
11/01/14 8:07 pm

It's not like they think about prison either.

kris55 Alabama
11/01/14 6:58 pm

"i sure wish I could go out and kill some people but gosh golly that death penalty" what goes through every criminals head

alkie New York
11/01/14 6:23 pm

I don't think murderers really care. I doubt they sit there and think about it.

MrTony Colorado
11/01/14 5:33 pm

The problem that makes the death penalty not a deterrent is the liberal court judges that will not support the letter of the law!

11/01/14 4:34 pm

I think "any" is such a broad term. It's likely there has been at least one person who thought about killing someone, then the possibility of death, and decided against it, but told no one. It's just a very broad term.

Spiritof76 USA 1776
11/01/14 4:26 pm

No. Most people that go so far as to commit murder aren't really focused on the potential consequences.

makem Chinese Xinjiang Camp
11/01/14 3:31 pm

if actually used, then yes

11/01/14 3:01 pm

No, only because it's not used as much as it should be

CAModerate California
11/01/14 2:36 pm

It will never be a deterrent, however should be utilized more and with fewer appeals.

FollowYourBliss Never Happy, Ever After
11/01/14 2:16 pm

Not really. I'm pretty sure the kind of person who would kill another person isn't the kind of person to sit and weigh the pros and cons. Most are mentally unstable or believe they will never get caught.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/01/14 1:42 pm

Absolutely, especially due to the exceptionally low re-offense rate of executed murderers.

11/01/14 1:27 pm

I don't support the death penalty, mainly because of the possibility of false convictions. But realistically, I'm sure it does prevent some murders from happening.

11/01/14 1:20 pm

Silly. Of course not.

DGroot America
11/01/14 1:05 pm

Yes, if a murderer is put to death, that person absolutely cannot commit any more murders.

11/01/14 12:52 pm

A similar question would be: Does banning guns deter people from committing murder?

11/01/14 12:29 pm

No because they don't use it enough or carry it out quick enough.

11/01/14 11:07 am

The death penalty ensures that the convict never kills another person again and I think it is needed for those who rape or kill children, disabled, elderly, or multiple people. However, there also has to be a consideration

11/01/14 11:08 am

whether or not the convict could have possibly killed the person in self defense or was insane at the time of the murder before execution

11/01/14 11:09 am

whether the suspect could have possibly killed in self defense or was insane before execution

11/01/14 11:10 am

Never mind this last comment. It was a technical error.

trav Instagram, travisdover
11/01/14 11:02 am

Yeah, imagine the guy who is about to commit murder and shrugs off life in prison but then gets scared about the death penalty. That's never happened before.

This is an example of a political agenda overriding reason.

RedHale Texas
11/01/14 11:40 am

'Life in prison' doesn't really mean life in prison. People often get out on parol.

b4mytime Orange County, CA
11/01/14 12:21 pm

RedHale, that may be true but with first-degree murder you usually serve at least 15-20 years. No one is going to say, "Hey there's no death penalty so let me kill this person and sit in prison for two decades."

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/02/14 7:26 pm

You're arguing an immaterial point. Do you seriously think there is no one who considers murdering someone, then decides not to because "they kill your *** for that ****, in this state"?

trav Instagram, travisdover
11/02/14 8:25 pm

If someone was going to get the death penalty, then alternatively, they would get life in prison, not 15 years.

Doopy, exactly, I don't think anyone decides not to murder because they are more worried about capital punishment than life in prison.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/02/14 8:49 pm

I disagree. Aside from the air of finality of capital punishment, there are plenty of people who hate others 15-20 years worth.

trav Instagram, travisdover
11/02/14 9:59 pm

People don't get 15-20 years instead of death though. They get life in prison.

If someone was going to get death, instead that someone would get life in prison.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/02/14 11:10 pm

But they often get out, sometimes after even less time, and people looking at prison terms before they commit crimes are usually over-optimistic.

If life in prison really always meant life in prison, you might have something. It doesn't.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/02/14 11:11 pm

That's not to say that the distant and uncertain death penalty we have now is a good deterrent, but it is not a worthless one, and much could be done to improve it.

trav Instagram, travisdover
11/02/14 11:32 pm

There is a thing called "life without parole."

Those people don't get out.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/03/14 12:02 am

Except they occasionally do. Sometimes it's clerical errors, sometimes it's court decisions, sometimes they just escape. Point is, that capital punishment does not have zero deterrent value.

trav Instagram, travisdover
11/03/14 8:08 am

This website says life-without-parole prisoners never get out early. Maybe if it turns out they are innocent?

trav Instagram, travisdover
11/03/14 8:12 am

It seems far fetched that these criminals get out early by some error. You have a link? I tried to look for one without success. That's what led me to the above website.

My point is that life without parole has equal deterrent value (but is cheaper)

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/03/14 10:48 pm

It's not equal, either. Consider the people sent to prison for 20 years at the age of 18 or 19. They get out adjusted to life in prison, and not to life outside. Many want to go back. Life in prison is a GOAL, not a punishment. Death is a deterrent.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/03/14 10:49 pm

And no, can't link to stuff I saw years ago on a non-Internet medium.

trav Instagram, travisdover
11/03/14 11:28 pm

Well if you can't google it, then it's safe to assume that it's not true.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/03/14 11:31 pm

What? No it's not. What in the world gave you that idea?

trav Instagram, travisdover
11/03/14 11:34 pm

Well, if it was on the Internet, then it may or may not be true. But something like this would be news. There would be media coverage of it. So if it's not there it's not true.

trav Instagram, travisdover
11/03/14 11:35 pm

Besides I have provided a link that says life without parole prisoners never get parole.

If you choose not to believe that, you are going against the facts.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/03/14 11:38 pm

Not so, dude. There's tons of knowledge that never made it on to the Internet, yon's more that only shows up on the 243rd page of Google results because of oddities in the algorithms, more that doesn't show because you used wrong search terms...

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/03/14 11:39 pm

Google simply isn't the repository of all relevant knowledge.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/03/14 11:40 pm

"Besides I have provided a link that says life without parole prisoners never get parole."
I wasn't talking about parole. Parole is not the only way out of a prison.

trav Instagram, travisdover
11/03/14 11:44 pm

You said "clerical errors, court decisions, and escape."

Court decision would be parole, right?

trav Instagram, travisdover
11/03/14 11:49 pm

... Do you want to explain to me what a court decision is?

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/03/14 11:51 pm

Court decisions would be like "he wasn't properly mirandized, so even though he confessed on video at the scene, we're releasing him".

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/03/14 11:52 pm

But why are we still talking about this? I mooted the point over an hour ago when I pointed out that there are people who SEEK life sentences.

trav Instagram, travisdover
11/03/14 11:55 pm

There are people who want to die too. They are just rare.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/03/14 11:58 pm

There are people who want to die, but there's basically nobody who wants to die after 20-30 years in prison, by lethal injection, at a time and in a manner not in their control.

It's easier to paint a squirt gun black and point it at a cop.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/03/14 11:59 pm

Regardless, use of the death penalty does not preclude use of life without parole, so the two possibilities in conjunction form a stronger deterrent to crime than just the one.

trav Instagram, travisdover
11/04/14 12:03 am

Well, you might be right that it adds a deterrent, though I don't think so. I think people commit crimes and assume they won't get caught.

trav Instagram, travisdover
11/04/14 12:04 am

Anyways, I'm not one of those hippies who doesn't believe in the death penalty for some moral reason. I could support it if it were cheaper than life in prison, but it's not cheaper. It's more expensive.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/04/14 12:04 am

So you think no punishment constitutes a deterrent? You don't think we'd see a jump in crime if we abolished all forms of punishment?

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/04/14 12:05 am

It can be made cheaper. It wasn't always expensive.

trav Instagram, travisdover
11/04/14 7:21 am

Of course punishment is a deterrent. We'd definitely see a spike in crime if there was no punishment.

trav Instagram, travisdover
11/04/14 7:23 am

Though I still don't think criminals think "this is a 3 years in prison vs 15 years in prison or this is the death penalty." They think "This is bad. This is worse."

I don't know though. I'm not a criminal. I believe in morality for its own sake.

trav Instagram, travisdover
11/04/14 7:25 am

There are probably gangsters who know all the different punishments and get paid accordingly.

But I think most criminals are kind of stupid.

dudley northern Virginia woods
11/01/14 10:55 am

And it does tend to cut down on recidivism.

HammeringMan Gods Away On Business
11/01/14 10:48 am

Too expensive.
Too lengthy delays.
Too much reliance on unreliable DNA!

ScrewU Gone
11/01/14 11:51 am

First two correct. Third - what? Lol

HammeringMan Gods Away On Business
11/01/14 12:12 pm

Too high chance of DNA ERROR.
Give me 2 minutes in you bathroom or access to an old blood sample and I could falsely DNA convict you of many things.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/01/14 1:45 pm

No evidence is immune to tampering. Give my dad a few hours and a photo of you, and he could produce video evidence of you assassinating the pope.

firefly5 the verse
11/01/14 3:11 pm

I'm pretty sure that's his point.

ScrewU Gone
11/01/14 3:36 pm

It's hardly that easy. DNA doesn't just lie around by itself. It would have to be in cells or bodily fluid that makes sense for the crime committed. Even then, your victim might have an ironclad alibi.

ScrewU Gone
11/01/14 3:37 pm

Not to mention you would probably leave your own DNA at the scene as well.

HammeringMan Gods Away On Business
11/02/14 8:47 am

Hair brush, tooth brush, bathroom p trap, tampon, discarded tissues- and the clever forensic team could structure the "case" when an solid alibi was unlikely.

ScrewU Gone
11/02/14 9:37 am

Go ahead and try. Commit a murder and leave a hair at the scene. Meanwhile, your car is going to be captured by a dozen unseen video cameras on the way to and from the scene, your own hair and skin are going to be left at the scene, you're not going

ScrewU Gone
11/02/14 9:37 am

to hold up under interrogation and your clever scene will FAIL because real life isn't like TV.

HammeringMan Gods Away On Business
11/02/14 4:41 pm

Sounds like you are making this personal. My neighbor is a forensic pathologist, and my step-daughter is a novelist. They talk all the time about crime scene manipulation. Not to say it is easy even for a pro, but it can be done.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/02/14 7:04 pm

But if we cannot punish crime because crime scenes may be manipulated, then we cannot punish at all.

Perfection is too much to demand from any human institution. Even Justice.

firefly5 the verse
11/02/14 7:11 pm

who said anything about not punishing?

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/02/14 7:16 pm

Hammering. I'm applying his implied argument to all punishment.

firefly5 the verse
11/02/14 7:18 pm

but that's faulty, is it not. other punishment is reversible. for irreversible punishment, we ask for better.

firefly5 the verse
11/02/14 7:36 pm

incarceration is reversible. you don't get the time back, but you're also significantly less dead.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/02/14 7:38 pm

The point of incarceration is not to kill you. If you don't get the time back, it's not reversible.

HammeringMan Gods Away On Business
11/02/14 10:43 pm

Doopy: did u really stretch my concerns w the death penalty to mean NO punishment for any crime! When did assume responsibilities as my personal spokesperson?

firefly5 the verse
11/02/14 10:59 pm

reversible may not be the right term. perhaps the ability to overturn (with consequence)

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/02/14 11:05 pm

I didn't, Hammering. I just applied your argument and conclusion equally to all punishment.

HammeringMan Gods Away On Business
11/03/14 7:10 am

Doopy: Really. Most embezzlement, vehicular homicide, and Ponzi Scheme convictions progress with no need for DNA analysis. Please TROLL elsewhere.

ScrewU Gone
11/03/14 2:43 pm

Having been to hundreds of crime scenes, including several that had been staged... it was obvious in seconds. You can't fake things like lividity.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/03/14 3:01 pm

Not trolling, hammering. I just pointed out that DNA is not the only kind of evidence that can be tampered with, and if we can't punish someone for a crime based on evidence that could have been tampered with, we can't convict practically anyone.

HammeringMan Gods Away On Business
11/03/14 5:46 pm

OK Doopy: u truly want to "win" so you won. What did you win?

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/03/14 5:59 pm

I won the debate. I demonstrated that your objection to capital punishment was unreasonable.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/03/14 6:02 pm

It was never about wanting to win. It was about the issue. Ideas have consequences, and ideas about what to do with murderers have life and death consequences.

firefly5 the verse
11/03/14 6:39 pm

I think if it was about ideals, you would have used some sort of logic. there are uncertainties inherent in any procedure. we can't not punish someone because of uncertainty. conclusion: kill them.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/03/14 6:42 pm

I did use logic. Applying an argument consistently across all instances is using logic.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/03/14 7:07 pm

Yes it is, firefly. Perhaps you mean something other or more specific than "logic"?

firefly5 the verse
11/03/14 7:10 pm

I did. I'm sorry. I very much meant sound logic. to take an argument, apply it to a larger case, and then debunk that case is not sound logic.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/03/14 7:14 pm

That's because I was using inductive logic, and soundness is a feature exclusively of deductive logic. That doesn't, however mean that my logic was bad.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/03/14 7:23 pm

Of course, now that you bring it up, I do realize much oft argument was deductive, and sound. Would you care to point to any particular invalidity in reasoning or falsehood in premises?

firefly5 the verse
11/03/14 7:28 pm

never mind, doopy. never mind.

HammeringMan Gods Away On Business
11/04/14 7:33 am

Doopy "executes" the Straw Man Logic falacy. Congrats Doop. Your command of vocabulary exceeds your capacity for logic.

firefly5 the verse
11/04/14 6:33 pm

straw man. that's right. I was trying to think of the term.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/04/14 7:35 pm

The straw man is a fallacy of distorting another's position. Applying their argument with consistency is a valid move.

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/04/14 7:35 pm

For example, if one argued that Asian people and Latino people ought not be able to marry, because it would lead to genetic homogeneity,

Doopy Remedial Americanism
11/04/14 7:37 pm

it would not be a straw man to say that by the same logic, they were arguing to outlaw marriage between black and white people.

The point is that withholding punishment because evidence can be tampered with is not practical.

wetheslaves Live each moment fully
11/01/14 10:46 am

It reduces repeat murders.

trav Instagram, travisdover
11/01/14 10:57 am

So does life in prison. Guess which one costs more.

wetheslaves Live each moment fully
11/01/14 11:04 am

I know, it's ass backwards. We also allow the perpetuation of unstable aggressive genes. The benefit and downfall of our free society. I agree it is better safe than sorry. Just pointing out elimination prevents repetition permanently.

wetheslaves Live each moment fully
11/01/14 11:07 am

I know people who are serving time for what seemed like harsh accusations. It is scary when your actions are judged harshly or unfairly. So, yes I do empathize.

genuflect University of Minnesota
11/01/14 11:44 am

Sounded like eugenics for a second there

trav Instagram, travisdover
11/01/14 11:46 am

Isn't it Eugenics? Life in prison does the same thing though, right?

wetheslaves Live each moment fully
11/01/14 9:19 pm

Forgive me. I was raised with breeding in mind of future offspring. Does this mean the future purge should be targeted at the poor and prisoners? Wait, nobody is better than anyone else. What was I thinking? Blank stare

wetheslaves Live each moment fully
11/01/14 9:20 pm

Imagine if Ebola got into the prisons...

trav Instagram, travisdover
11/01/14 9:23 pm

It's hard to know exactly what you are trying to say, but please let us not include poor people with the criminals in your eugenic utopia.

wetheslaves Live each moment fully
11/01/14 9:28 pm

Trav, I am just synthesizing what I hear out there. Personally, I see every person as valuable. When you get to the macro government or organizational levels, people tend to be evaluated by their contribution or cost to the system.

yesca Washington
11/01/14 10:34 am

What is it that deters you from killing someone? If the fear of the death penalty is what's stopping you then it must work. I see it as more of as pay-back and revenge issue than a deterrent .