Show of HandsShow of Hands

GrandmaALiCE October 31st, 2014 12:04am

Inspired (partially) by Cole12's poll. A public school brings a class to a synagogue for a Holocaust education program. Part of the morning teaches a little bit ABOUT Judaism (an overview). Does this violate the First Amendment?

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saliemster California
10/31/14 10:42 pm

It's teaching it not shoving down people's throats, but I think the museum of tolerance is better.

PresWK Minnesota
10/31/14 9:21 pm

They could easily teach it at school, would they have to bring the kids to a fucking synagogue?

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
11/01/14 7:19 am

Pres, I answered this point in detail, in my reply to pateach, a few posts down. Briefly, It's a very small part of a bigger program. The bigger program would be very hard to take "on the road." Also, there is no prayer or religious activity, at ...

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
11/01/14 7:22 am

... the time of the program (morning of a school day.)

Please also see what pateach wrote and my reply.

ScrewU Gone
10/31/14 5:46 am

First time I attended a synagogue was for one of my cub scouts who was getting a religion award. I stopped at the box of yarmulkas at the entrance wondering if you had to be Jewish to wear one or something and his father said "you can pick any color

pateach2 love my son
10/31/14 5:39 am

I feel like we can teach children about religions in the classroom but actually taking them to the church or synagogue is a little much.

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GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
10/31/14 8:26 am

I hear what you are saying, but I may not have made a few points clear. They are not, in any way, attending a religious service. All parts of the program are conducted in a classroom "environment." Nobody prays; it's all instruction. (Continued)

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
10/31/14 8:32 am

So, having said that, why do we bring them to the synagogue? There are several reasons. Our synagogue was founded in 1940, by refugees from Nazi Germany. Thus, we are an appropriate setting, to drive the point home. We have volunteers who are ...

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
10/31/14 8:36 am

... passionate about teaching this. Theoretically, you might say, we could bring the program to the schools, but logistically, it's not that feasible. We set up a large social hall, with posters, artifacts and other exhibits. Schools come from ...

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
10/31/14 8:39 am

... a wide geographic area around Greater Cleveland. Taking our museum and all our volunteers on the road would not be practical. The "overview of Judaism" part is just one half hour out of the morning. The children are not "going to ...

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
10/31/14 8:53 am

... synagogue," in any religious sense. They are just using a part of the synagogue, as a classroom, to be taught some general ideas.

Does that make sense to you? I'm sorry for being so lengthy!

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
10/31/14 8:55 am

I just reviewed my comments. When I said "passionate about teaching this" and similar comments, I meant the Holocaust, of course - not religion.

Diknak Ohio
10/31/14 5:04 am

Let's teach all religions to kids, past and present.

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cowboy Doors of Perception
10/31/14 1:16 am

It should be according to Liberals.

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GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
10/31/14 5:33 am

The results of this poll don't back you up on that opinion.

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
10/31/14 5:35 am

I mean, the "according to liberals" part of your comment.

cowboy Doors of Perception
10/31/14 6:03 am

Yeah, I know. They're hypocrites. They say one thing then do the opposite. Mention God though and they can't call the ACLU fast enough.

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
10/31/14 7:58 am

Then, please explain this. The program I describe has been running for 18 years. We have had hundreds of schools participating (about one half are public schools). Many return year after year. We have taught thousands of children. In all of this ...

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
10/31/14 8:03 am

... time, no parent or student has complained about our teaching an overview of Judaism.

Surely, just by statistical probability, some of those parents or children have been liberals. As I said, they don't have a problem with the program.

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
10/31/14 8:04 am

Remember, I'm talking about real life, not a hypothetical situation. It's a long-running program.

cowboy Doors of Perception
10/31/14 8:15 am

It could be because statistically Jews vote Democrat and back Democrat candidates. I wonder how tolerant they would be if those kids went to a church and learned the stations of the Cross.

cowboy Doors of Perception
10/31/14 8:18 am

How many Muslim kids go to this synagogue?

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
10/31/14 8:58 am

Cowboy, you are correct about the voting patterns of Jews, historically and statistically. But, the overwhelming majority of students and teachers who come to our program are not Jewish. We have had a few Muslim students attend the program, on ...

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
10/31/14 9:00 am

... occasion. We even had a Muslim speaker once. He talked about his childhood experience. He watched the Nazis arrest and take away his Jewish friends, which greatly disturbed him, as a little boy.

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
10/31/14 9:02 am

You think all Muslims are evil terrorists. You should try to get rid of that stereotype.

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
10/31/14 9:06 am

Wait! I think I see where you were going before. Jews tend to vote Democrat. Therefore, non-Jewish Democrats are more tolerant of their kids learning about Judaism. That's a real leap of logic and wouldn't explain NO complaints ever, on our program.

cowboy Doors of Perception
10/31/14 9:20 am

You're lucky to keep that tradition. The Country is changing though. They're busy coming after Christians right now.

teachinla California
10/30/14 10:45 pm

At one time the LAUSD didn't allow any mention of religious observances in the classroom, unless they were of some tribe. I guess that the tribal beliefs weren't considered genuine beliefs. Now the rule is to not teach a religion, but about it.

kermie gaytopia
10/30/14 10:33 pm

It's okay to study religion and even read religious texts in public schools in an academic way. But ideally all religions and non-religions would get the same coverage time.

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PartyFree Nowhere in Particular
10/30/14 9:42 pm

Students should have a basic overview of world religions so they can better understand historical events. Teaching about religion in a historical context does not violate the Establishment Clause as long as there is no promotion of the religion.

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Rosebud Ohio
10/30/14 7:54 pm

I think that's pretty cool.

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Rosebud Ohio
10/30/14 7:58 pm

And only 2.5 hrs away! How old are the kids who visit?

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
10/30/14 8:41 pm

Usually 8th graders. That's a pretty optimal age for learning this material, we believe. However, occasionally, we get some as young as 6th grade or as old as 12th grade. Where in Ohio are you?

RoDe Latinus wordsus
10/30/14 7:24 pm

I'm an "agnostic get God off our bills and out of our pledge of allegiance", but teaching about religion in my mind is pretty essential to any history class.

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fredd TrumpLand
10/30/14 7:21 pm

Teaching needn't be preaching.

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bethanyq Ess Eff
10/30/14 5:26 pm

Nope, and both common sense and the Supreme Court are pretty solidly agreed on this one.

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droo Santa Barbara
10/30/14 5:11 pm

How many would answer the same about Islam?

Cole12 ...
10/30/14 5:13 pm

I would answer the same.

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
10/30/14 5:13 pm

That's why reading Cole12's question made me decide to post this. I agree with you, it shouldn't be any different.

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
10/30/14 8:45 pm

See, that's what bothers me now. Cole, your poll closed with only 69% in favor of the school and some pretty negative comments. My poll has 97% in favor of the school and only warm, fuzzy comments. Obviously, I'm happy that people like what my ...

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
10/30/14 8:48 pm

... program is doing. But, the results are so inconsistent.

Hmm ... Could it *possibly* have anything to do with bigotry against Islam?

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
10/30/14 5:08 pm

I said "partially by Cole12," because this has been floating around in my mind, as a poll question, for a while.

This is not hypothetical. It's a really great program that my synagogue runs. I volunteer and love it! In the Judaism ...

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GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
10/30/14 5:09 pm

... portion, we do not indoctrinate or preach. It's strictly an overview ABOUT Judaism. The kids seem to enjoy it.

GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
10/30/14 5:12 pm

By the way, if you click on the link, then on the tab, "About Face to Face," that's me and my husband in the middle picture.

Cole12 ...
10/30/14 5:06 pm

Nope. Sounds like a cool field trip to me.

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GrandmaALiCE Rocky Mtns aerial view
10/30/14 5:17 pm

It really is! They learn a lot and seem to love it. We get back wonderful letters, showing how impressed many of the kids are, by what they have learned.

thebarr
10/30/14 5:05 pm

Sounds like another great idea to me!

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